Ammo Testing Procedures?

[poptart4YALL]

I've shot the past two Eley Practical Rimfire Challenges at Peacemaker National Training Center this year. The matches have been great this far and I highly recommend them. I've been using CCI SV previously and it's been treating me well. Off the bench my gun loves it. I've shot some ridiculously impressive groups with it, but with the ranges that these matches goes out to 300yds, CCI SV kinda gives up the ghost. I'm not saying its letting me down or anything like that, but I'm interested in finding something that keep it together out past 100yds. From what I've seen is that CCI SV is only holding 8" groups at 200yds and while the targets at the matches are somewhat generous (besides the KYL targets), I'd like to try something better.

So I have purchased a bunch of different ammo to test out.
I've tried to keep each individual box of ammo under $20, and besides the box of Eley Tenex I got off the prize table the ammo listed falls below the price.

I'm just curious what everyone else testing procedures are and what level of cleaning between different ammo types.


Typically my rifle takes 30-40rds to foul and usually shoots good for about 500rds, so here's my plan:

Detail clean the rifle with VFG Pellets, Kroil and JB Bore paste.
50rds of CCI SV to foul the barrel and confirm zero.
3 patches of Boretech Rimfire Blend followed by dry patches.
Test the box of ammo.
3 patches of Boretech Rimfire Blend followed by dry patches.
Test next box of ammo.
3 patches of Boretech Rimfire Blend followed by dry patches.
AND so on....

Given the volume of this test, it'll probably be spread out over two days with a detailed cleaning (JB/Kroil) in between and refouling with CCI SV.

Testing will be:
(2) 5rd groups at 25yds
(2) 5rd groups at 50yds
(1) 10rd group at 50yds
(2) 5rd groups at 100yds
(2) 5rd groups at 200yds

Everything will be shot over the chrono and every shot logged. Then all 50 shots averaged, ES and SD calculated. This should provide a large enough sample size. Also, all atmospheric conditions will be logged at the beginning of each group using a Kestrel D3 Drop.

These are the boxes of ammo I'll be testing:
CCI Standard Velocity
RWS Special Match
RWS Rifle Match
RWS Target Rifle
Lapua Center-X
SK Rifle Match
SK Standard Plus
Wolf Match Extra
Wolf Match Target
Eley Tenex
Eley Match
Eley Edge
Eley Force
Eley Contact
Eley Club
Eley Target
Eley Action




Little Info on the rifle:

The rifle started as a factory ruger 10/22 stainless, back when ruger was doing those ugly grey finishes on their stainless guns. This was actually the first gun I bought myself when I turned 18.

As its sits now:
Receiver: Factory
Barrel: Kidd LW 18"
Bolt: Factory, worked over by Trivettes for radius rear, firing pin pin, and head space
Trigger Housing: Factory
Trigger: Kidd "Trigger Job" Kit Drop in Single Stage (these are great btw)
Charging Handle: Kidd w/ Viton cushion
Mag Release: PWS T3 Leveler (these are simply the best design out there)
Stock: Vitor Titan with Cheek Raiser (I keep changing the scope so it's just taped on for now)
Scope Base: DIP, Inc 25MOA
Scope Rings: Seekins 34mm
Scope: Bushnell DMR 3-21x50mm, FFP 34mm tube, G2 Reticle
Random replaced parts: Kidd V-Block, Kidd Mag Catch Plugger, Kidd Receiver Pins, Kidd Bolt Buffer

I had a Kidd take down screw but that stripped out and I purchased the factory hex screw instead.

If I was to build this again I'd just buy a Kidd super grade to be honest, but this has been 8 years in the making now.




Thanks
-Poptart

 

[flatland1]

Sounds reasonable, except for the 25yd groups - I don't think I'd waste the time nor the ammo to test at that distance. Unless you're using 25yds as more of a way to season the bore with fouling of each succeeding type of ammo, and even then, I believe you'd get more meaningful results at 50yds.

 

[jbell]

I agree, 25 yards is a bit close unless the majority of your shooting will be at that distance. Shoot the ammo at the distance that it will be used for, you may have ammo that is killer at one yard line but falls apart at a different. I don't clean between different brands of ammo, I season the bore by shooting the ammo. Most of the time it will be 15 rounds (give or take 5 rounds) before the ammo is shooting at potential. *Don't be fooled by the first 4-6 rounds after switching ammo as a lot of the time you will get a screamer group, but it will open up before it settles in. (normally)* If your cleaning between ammo then your going to be very close to the same # of seasoning rounds, so why waste the time cleaning. With that being said rimfires do still need to be cleaned from time to time, but normally a good barrel / chamber can go 500 or more rounds before it needs to be cleaned I have seen some go much more than that.

 

[Tucker301]

Your greatest challenges to keeping all of them on an even playing field are going to be the atmospheric variations. If I were to shoot that plan this weekend, for example, I'd see anything from mid 50's to mid 80's / 50% RH to rain / winds 0-12 mph. The rest of your plan looks good.

 

[jbell]

Your greatest challenges to keeping all of them on an even playing field are going to be the atmospheric variations. If I were to shoot that plan this weekend, for example, I'd see anything from mid 50's to mid 80's / 50% RH to rain / winds 0-12 mph. The rest of your plan looks good.

So very true!

 

[Hookturnr]

I've shot both Peewee PRS matches as well and it has been a blast! I've done a fair bit of testing to find what my CZ455 likes and the procedure I've been using has yielded some eye opening data. I've got it to the point I think I may have reached the accuracy potential of the barrel now but it's been a lot of ammo to get to that point. I don't see Norma tac22 or Norma match on your list.....that's the current favorite flavor for me until I get into testing some high end ammo.


My procedure is similar but not quite the same..
Clean thoroughly
take ammo #1 shoot 20 rds at 50yds in one group then 2- 5 shot groups at 50, 100, and 200yds
Clean with 1 wet, 2 dry 1 wet 2 dry patches..solvent of your choice
repeat for remaining ammo

 

[JG26_Irish]

I've shot both Peewee PRS matches as well and it has been a blast! I've done a fair bit of testing to find what my CZ455 likes and the procedure I've been using has yielded some eye opening data. I've got it to the point I think I may have reached the accuracy potential of the barrel now but it's been a lot of ammo to get to that point. I don't see Norma tac22 or Norma match on your list.....that's the current favorite flavor for me until I get into testing some high end ammo.


My procedure is similar but not quite the same..
Clean thoroughly
take ammo #1 shoot 20 rds at 50yds in one group then 2- 5 shot groups at 50, 100, and 200yds
Clean with 1 wet, 2 dry 1 wet 2 dry patches..solvent of your choice
repeat for remaining ammo

Nice Pic - I recognize that log, lol. My favorite stage of all.

I shot the first Peacemaker match. Missed this month but hope to do the last one in Sept. For my first round I was planning to use a new rifle which was chosen to be flexible at a wide range of distances. I did not have the time or budget to test all ammo at all distances so, I tested the choices that I had at 50y and picked one. Then I spent a ton of time shooting it at all distances from 50y out to 300y in 50y steps to verify my dope as well as I could get it. I settled on Wolf Match Extra because I had two bricks of it, my rifle shot it well and I did not want to waste Center X, Midas+ or Eley ammo on a match that was mostly being shot super long range and fast. In other words, I thought having great dope was more important than having absolute precision. I was partially right. My gun did fine on the long range shooting but I was caught ill prepared for the short range volume shooting which required 15-20rds and several reloads. I now have a pair of 10rd clips to go with my pair of 5's and am better prepared for that. With the process outline above, I was able to hit the KYL smallest gong fairly easy. The wind bit me some but that was cause it picked up a lot while I was shooting and it took me a few shots to adjust. One thing I did notice about my rifle was that it shot better at 100y than it did at 50y. The 50y groups were still smaller but not smaller than about 1/4" (1/2 MOA) yet the 100y groups were just as good at about 1/2MOA also. Most guns would open up some with each increase in distance. This one seemed to get better. At 200y, it did open up some but was still good for hitting clay birds and smaller pieces at that range. Most groups were in the 3"ish range at that dist. I think at that distance I was beginning to get both the affects from the ammo variance and from the winds. I followed a test plan similar to Hookturnr. I did consider using some of the Hi-Vel ammo for the shots out past 200y with two sets of dope. My logic being that would lessen the wind factors and reduce my dial up. In retrospect, that is a very bad idea. Tons of things that make it so.

So, for next time, I do plan to test the CX and Midas+ ammo and maybe the Eley. I also have a case of Vostok ammo that shoots as good as Wolf does. It might be a candidate too. These are just what I can easily get locally.

Irish

 

[steve123]

Whatever you do make sure the ammo you choose is available in that particular lot number and "in stock" to buy somewhere because although one lot may shoot great another might not. Instead of messing with a different type of ammo that shoots best at each distance pick the one that shoots well at 200Y because it'll likely shoot well closer. If the vertical is small the ES should be too. Pick a calm day and go out at sunrise for optimal results.

For me Geco, SK and Wolf shoot decent at 50Y but have bad vertical flyers at 200Y. So I went on to more expensive ammo that tested well also that I try to keep for 22 matches.

 

[poptart4YALL]

I was caught ill prepared for the short range volume shooting which required 15-20rds and several reloads.

Irish, it wasn't that bad when you had a super awesome squad mate loading your mags for you...aka me, lol





Anyways, I guess I'll scrap one 25yd group. I'll keep one in there just for giggles and to make sure I don't have to make any larger scope adjustments for that certain ammo before jumping to 50yds. While some of the stages at these matches are at longer ranges, not all of it is. So far they've had at least 2 or 3 stages in box ranges with smaller targets. So I'm not willing to give up the short range testing and just pushing out to 200yds. Sure if it does well at 200yds it should be good at 50yds, but rimfire is funky and I'd like to be sure of it with data and proof then to ASSuME. Also, I'll probably be recording the drops and elevation changes at different distances so I'll have some dope for whatever I pick..... 1.5 birds with 1 stone?
And yes it'll be hard to accurately compare things with atmospheric conditions, however short of doing this in a 200-300yd indoor range where I can control the AC and ventilation, I'll have to live with it. Conditions will be log and differences will be considered into final selection. If it comes down to two different types and the conditions are far off, I'll re-shoot the procedure with just those two back to back.

As far as cleaning, maybe I'll cut down the quantity of patches to just 1 wet patch. Like I said my barrel takes 30-40rds to foul/season after a good cleaning and I'm not trying to remove that, but wipe out whatever lube was from the previous box of ammo.

 

[JG26_Irish]

Irish, it wasn't that bad when you had a super awesome squad mate loading your mags for you...aka me, lol

As far as cleaning, maybe I'll cut down the quantity of patches to just 1 wet patch. Like I said my barrel takes 30-40rds to foul/season after a good cleaning and I'm not trying to remove that, but wipe out whatever lube was from the previous box of ammo.

Yep, I would have been sunk without your willingness to help. Still having two 10's eliminates a pair of reloads and I lost count of how many times, I simply ran out of time on a stage in that first event. Lots of points to be regained. I just wish somebody made a reliable 20 or 25 rd mag for my rifle, lol. We had a good squad in the first match. Everyone was helpful and out to have fun. You don't see that everywhere. Knowing the full format of the matches is a big help regardless of the detail changes made each time by the designers. I think in retrospect, even with good dope and a repeatable optic, I may be better off using hold overs for some of the shots and make larger adjustments only once or twice in a stage. Buys a little time that way. I hope to play with that theory some at my local range. We are limited there to 200y, 300y, 400y only on one range and 0-90 yds on another. I may have to go to the family farm to do some more realistic practice where I can go 150y, 225y, 245y, 175y, 280y, etc all in one string.

If it takes 30rds to re-season your bbl, I would just wipe it out with a dry patch and move to the next brand. That swabs out some of the fouling and still leave a little wax in there. It might save you some ammo and time. Once you find the to or three best, you can always do a more deliberate re-test of them side by side like you said with proper cleaning in between. After about 10rds, I usually found my rifles would settle down and do whatever they were capable of.

Irish

 

[poptart4YALL]

I think in retrospect, even with good dope and a repeatable optic, I may be better off using hold overs for some of the shots and make larger adjustments only once or twice in a stage.

That's what I did the first time around. It works well, plus the targets are generous enough for the elevation error if your hold is off by little you'll still gets hits. I dial most of the last match after upgrading my scope to the Bushnell DMR, which works well also. The main problem is only 5mils per rotation, so you have to really pay attention to what you're doing. I was writing down how many mils I needed to come up from zero and then also writing down what the scope would read. Basically if I had to come up 12.7mils, I'd write down 12.7, then also 2.7 which is what the scope would so. It takes a tiny bit of thinking out of the equation, nothing you can't do in your head, but it's easier to do before hand than when your on the clock. Still cranking the turret around two to three times is slow, so maybe moving super sonic ammo will reduce that a bit and I'm hoping create a little bit more splash so you can see your impacts better. I wasted a time of ammo just guess where my shots went or just bracketing the target (hold center, hold low, hold right, hold left, impact...). Plus this last match they greatly decrease the round counts on the stages. In the first match you'd have 3-5 extra rounds per stage, that change to no extra rounds to maybe 2 extra. So, even missing once was probably going to cost you points.

The guys that I saw who had it easy when dialing were the Team Area 419 using the Kahles scopes with 14mils of elevation per rotation. Come up 12mils, zip, done. The ones who had it the worst were the guys with 1/4 moa adjustments. Turn, turn, turn, turn, turn, turn, turn, click, click, okay I think I rotated it enough times.

-Poptart

 

[steve123]

That's why I like good holdover reticles like Athlon's and the H59. I use whatever advantage I can during a stage so that means some stages I holdover only, especially if off the bipod with a high round count stage, doing so does save a lot of time, time that can be used to concentrate on wind, or to locate the correct target, or to think about avoiding other mistakes. If the targets are generous then it's a no brainer.

I run a S&B 5-20/H59 on my Anschutz 1827F, it's about as versatile as a scope gets and makes a fantastic 22 tactical scope. I know it's a expensive scope but my main point is it's versatility.

I used to run the Bushnell HDMR H59 with 5 mils per turn. That can be a pain if constantly running over 5 mils when dialing which is part of the reason I sold them and got into 10 mil plus turrets and also I wanted a zero stop.

Planning on trying the Athlon Ares for a while on a 22 which has 10 mil knobs, ZS and a great holdover reticle.

Pop, questions for you, why refoul with CCISV only to go test with another brand. It makes much more sense to clean and foul with one particular ammo brand like Eley. Once the various ammos of that brand are tested then clean and go to another brand. It's their brands proprietary bullet lube which is the same across the board so no need to clean in between them.

You talk about ASSuMe - ing and I get your point but if you don't have access to the purchase of the lot numbers your massive test is a bit counterproductive. Go search my posts here in the rimfire section and look at the groups my 1827F shot in the Lapua test facility. Some lot numbers of the medium to higher priced ammo didn't shoot well and a few did, so I bought a case of the best tested ammo.