Has anyone used a site like www.ammoguide.com/ to help you with your reloading? How accurate is it? Seems pretty thorough but curious what your thoughts are. If it is correct, it might save some time and money.
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Ammoguide Reloading
- Thread starter thewileyone
- Start date
Re: Ammoguide Reloading
No. You would be better off with an actual manual and or online free stuff from individual manufacturers sites.
No. You would be better off with an actual manual and or online free stuff from individual manufacturers sites.
Re: Ammoguide Reloading
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No. You would be better off with an actual manual and or online free stuff from individual manufacturers sites. </div></div>
+ a billion.
The only data point a reloader has to know, is the starting load. Everything else, is a work-up for your rifle.
Because every rifle is different, even rifles from the same manufacturer. The only safe way is to work up your load, for your rifle.
Even the MAX load point published is mostly worthless. Because MAX is your rifle is where you find it. And if you work up your loads, carefully, for your rifle, only your rifle can tell you where MAX really is. Not some book.
Bob
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No. You would be better off with an actual manual and or online free stuff from individual manufacturers sites. </div></div>
+ a billion.
The only data point a reloader has to know, is the starting load. Everything else, is a work-up for your rifle.
Because every rifle is different, even rifles from the same manufacturer. The only safe way is to work up your load, for your rifle.
Even the MAX load point published is mostly worthless. Because MAX is your rifle is where you find it. And if you work up your loads, carefully, for your rifle, only your rifle can tell you where MAX really is. Not some book.
Bob
Re: Ammoguide Reloading
I'm going to respectfully disagree with Bobin's comment related to max load.
If you reference a Hodgdon manual you will see they publish pressure data along with the other information. I wish they all did that. The folks who publish data get to the pressure points one way or another and that's how they define their max charge. Whether they use CUP or PSI as the metric, they know when they hit the limit for that cartridge and that's what they publish.
They always try and keep max load data at or just under the rated pressure for the cartridge. My personal opinion is the max load is the most useful of all the data available.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with Bobin's comment related to max load.
If you reference a Hodgdon manual you will see they publish pressure data along with the other information. I wish they all did that. The folks who publish data get to the pressure points one way or another and that's how they define their max charge. Whether they use CUP or PSI as the metric, they know when they hit the limit for that cartridge and that's what they publish.
They always try and keep max load data at or just under the rated pressure for the cartridge. My personal opinion is the max load is the most useful of all the data available.
Re: Ammoguide Reloading
There are a number of free sites on line. Also the manufacturers or bullets and powder will have info posted. I primarily use Lyman manual but have several others also. When working up a new load and considering alterations in loads I will look through all of the materials to get a sense of the test results others had. The printed results, beginning points and max loads will vary from source to source but taken together they give a good sense of beginning loads and max loads. I agree that the important point is to know safe beginning load points and I also like to know published max loads but I work my own way up the load charges, always inspecting for signs of pressure on the brass and primer. Then there is the accuracy aspect.....
There are a number of free sites on line. Also the manufacturers or bullets and powder will have info posted. I primarily use Lyman manual but have several others also. When working up a new load and considering alterations in loads I will look through all of the materials to get a sense of the test results others had. The printed results, beginning points and max loads will vary from source to source but taken together they give a good sense of beginning loads and max loads. I agree that the important point is to know safe beginning load points and I also like to know published max loads but I work my own way up the load charges, always inspecting for signs of pressure on the brass and primer. Then there is the accuracy aspect.....
Re: Ammoguide Reloading
There is no way I would use load data from just anyone. I looked at Ammoguide and some of the other user contributed load data sites and after comparing to manuals I will pass. I did find Load Data site and it publishes manufacturer data. It offers multiple professional resources published in one location to provide the handloader with accurate load data.
There is no way I would use load data from just anyone. I looked at Ammoguide and some of the other user contributed load data sites and after comparing to manuals I will pass. I did find Load Data site and it publishes manufacturer data. It offers multiple professional resources published in one location to provide the handloader with accurate load data.
I know this is an old thread, but just found it doing a search for other info. Just now joined Sniper's Bide as well...
I just wanted to mention that I do use AmmoGuide and like it quite a lot. However, I'm not there for the load data. I primarily use it for the cartridge database. Thousands of cartridges with dimensions, history, use, etc. The dimensions are based on SAAMI, CIP, historical data, or someone's wildcat (it's on the user to verify these with the proper specs, so do your homework). Obviously SAAMI and CIP specs are not hard to find and they are free, but you can search them all on AmmoGuide based on name, bullet diameter, rim diameter, etc.
The search tool and searchable/sortable parameters are impressive and useful for certain things like old BP cartridges or quick comparisons to see what rechambering options you might have. I've used it to collect existing case data and create some wildcat BP rounds for my 1885 High Wall, and some wildcats for my AR as well.
As for the load data there, I have looked at it to compare to some of the loads I've worked up with my own firearms over the years, before ever using AmmoGuide. I didn't see anything too crazy. But definitely some things you won't find in a load manual. The data posted is generally pretty clear as to what that loader's parameters were and again it is on the user to be responsible for what they do with it.
I have 5+ load manuals I've collected over the years, Hodgdon & VihtaVouri magazines, manufacturer websites, and a lot of QuickLoads work I've done over the years. I always use multiple sources. The min and max is not the same in every source because there are MANY variables at play. I always cross-check load data when I start something new and work on it from there.
I recently made a load for 7.62x39 using a 90gr HP pistol bullet. It was just a screaming fast plinker to dump energy fast and have fun with the melons and zucchini in garden that couldn't be eaten. I did that on my own based on experience & QuickLoads work based on several other loads for the rifle (because you probably won't find data in a book for a 90gr 7.62x39 load).
It is also worth noting that almost all the load manuals used a bolt action to test their published data and the velocities and pressures will not match what happens in a semi-auto (semi-autos have the extra variable of the gas system). Turns out a guy had already posted a 90gr 7.62x39 on AmmoGuide which I discovered when I joined joined the site a few months after developing my version. His listing was slightly more conservative than mine, but similar.
This is the very long way for me to get around to saying I believe I would fall into in a camp somewhere between @RobinNC and @flashhole. I've only been loading and casting for around 10yrs now, but I experiment a lot and use many many data sources and tools to develop and analyze each load.
The only part I would disagree on with what's been said (truely with all due respect) is that when you see a MAX load listed, it has many parameters behind it based on the test setup. Chamber specs, action design, barrel length, primer used, etc, etc, etc. The books can't publish all the possibilities and they certainly can't account for the variation in specs between firearms.
Is your bore 0.0002" tighter/looser? Your chamber size? Your powder/primer lot#? The humidity when you loaded? This is why the true MAX really does depend on the individual firearm and the loader's needs, goals, components, etc.
That said, I absolutely agree with the cautious approach @flashhole is getting at. Never start at max, even if it's the same is multiple books. Your old rifle or semi-auto may not be able to take the pressure that my bold action or falling block can, or the rifle someone else used to publish their load book. Some brass and primers are also 'stronger' than others.
Never just load something someone on the internet says works without doing your own homework for your firearm to ensure safety. Multiple sources is best. Know your rifles' capabilities based on construction, metallurgy, historical context if it's an old firearm, etc. Also, never take it for granted that you know exactly what you're doing and can't make a mistake; that's how you end up missing half your jaw bone.
I have not tried the Load Data site as of yet, but I may. I have read good things and they have published some really good articles I've enjoyed over the years.
Anyway, I appreciate all the info you all put here on Sniper's Hide. I hope to keep learning from all of you. I have a lot of respect for experience, and there is a lot of that here.
Cheers and thanks!
-JMatt
I just wanted to mention that I do use AmmoGuide and like it quite a lot. However, I'm not there for the load data. I primarily use it for the cartridge database. Thousands of cartridges with dimensions, history, use, etc. The dimensions are based on SAAMI, CIP, historical data, or someone's wildcat (it's on the user to verify these with the proper specs, so do your homework). Obviously SAAMI and CIP specs are not hard to find and they are free, but you can search them all on AmmoGuide based on name, bullet diameter, rim diameter, etc.
The search tool and searchable/sortable parameters are impressive and useful for certain things like old BP cartridges or quick comparisons to see what rechambering options you might have. I've used it to collect existing case data and create some wildcat BP rounds for my 1885 High Wall, and some wildcats for my AR as well.
As for the load data there, I have looked at it to compare to some of the loads I've worked up with my own firearms over the years, before ever using AmmoGuide. I didn't see anything too crazy. But definitely some things you won't find in a load manual. The data posted is generally pretty clear as to what that loader's parameters were and again it is on the user to be responsible for what they do with it.
I have 5+ load manuals I've collected over the years, Hodgdon & VihtaVouri magazines, manufacturer websites, and a lot of QuickLoads work I've done over the years. I always use multiple sources. The min and max is not the same in every source because there are MANY variables at play. I always cross-check load data when I start something new and work on it from there.
I recently made a load for 7.62x39 using a 90gr HP pistol bullet. It was just a screaming fast plinker to dump energy fast and have fun with the melons and zucchini in garden that couldn't be eaten. I did that on my own based on experience & QuickLoads work based on several other loads for the rifle (because you probably won't find data in a book for a 90gr 7.62x39 load).
It is also worth noting that almost all the load manuals used a bolt action to test their published data and the velocities and pressures will not match what happens in a semi-auto (semi-autos have the extra variable of the gas system). Turns out a guy had already posted a 90gr 7.62x39 on AmmoGuide which I discovered when I joined joined the site a few months after developing my version. His listing was slightly more conservative than mine, but similar.
This is the very long way for me to get around to saying I believe I would fall into in a camp somewhere between @RobinNC and @flashhole. I've only been loading and casting for around 10yrs now, but I experiment a lot and use many many data sources and tools to develop and analyze each load.
The only part I would disagree on with what's been said (truely with all due respect) is that when you see a MAX load listed, it has many parameters behind it based on the test setup. Chamber specs, action design, barrel length, primer used, etc, etc, etc. The books can't publish all the possibilities and they certainly can't account for the variation in specs between firearms.
Is your bore 0.0002" tighter/looser? Your chamber size? Your powder/primer lot#? The humidity when you loaded? This is why the true MAX really does depend on the individual firearm and the loader's needs, goals, components, etc.
That said, I absolutely agree with the cautious approach @flashhole is getting at. Never start at max, even if it's the same is multiple books. Your old rifle or semi-auto may not be able to take the pressure that my bold action or falling block can, or the rifle someone else used to publish their load book. Some brass and primers are also 'stronger' than others.
Never just load something someone on the internet says works without doing your own homework for your firearm to ensure safety. Multiple sources is best. Know your rifles' capabilities based on construction, metallurgy, historical context if it's an old firearm, etc. Also, never take it for granted that you know exactly what you're doing and can't make a mistake; that's how you end up missing half your jaw bone.
I have not tried the Load Data site as of yet, but I may. I have read good things and they have published some really good articles I've enjoyed over the years.
Anyway, I appreciate all the info you all put here on Sniper's Hide. I hope to keep learning from all of you. I have a lot of respect for experience, and there is a lot of that here.
Cheers and thanks!
-JMatt
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Paragraphs Man, Paragraphs. A wall of text is just so annoying, making many not wanting to read.
Yeah. I see what ya mean looking back it at. That was literally my first post on Sniper's Hide, and I haven't figured out what all I can do format wise yet. I'll work on that. Thanks for the guidance. I wouldn't want to read that wall either...
I guess the point was that I have a little experience with the AmmoGuide site if anyone wants to know something about it. I certainly don't consider it an official reload data source. It does have some other cool and helpful uses though.
Cheers,
JMatt
I agree with you @JMatt727967 . I rarely even look at the load data portion of the site unless it's an obscure cartridge I can't find any other info on. I do keep my subscription current for the comparison tools. It's a huge library of information and let's you customize it in many ways to get the info you're after. Kind of a cool site. Definitely not a go to source for hard load data though.
