An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

Smokin

Smokin

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Minuteman
Jun 20, 2007
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Houston, Texas
#1
Ive been looking at AR Upper receivers and have been looking at a few of the newer forged billet manufacturers. Sun Devil makes a billet upper without a forward assist or shell deflector. Would you buy this type of configuration or do you feel that the forward assist is still necessary?
 
#4
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

You may appreciate the shell deflector if you are left handed.
The forward assist may come in handy if you never clean your gun or work in a dirty environment but you shouldn't really need it.
 
#5
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

If it's a range gun..who cares.

If it's a working gun and you actually know how to use it, you may want those. There are times when a silent chamber check may be warranted or when the rifle is so dirty it no longer fully seats (although that's usually time to transition). There are times when you need to shoot from the support side.

I won't have a working AR without both.

My AR-10 doesn't have a Forward Assist, but I can get around that with other methods since it's not likely to be used at a high ROF.
 
#8
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

I don't need either, even left handed. The only reason for the deflector is lefties getting smacked in the face on auto. Set to semi it isn'ta problem.
 
#9
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyanScott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't need either, even left handed. The only reason for the deflector is lefties getting smacked in the face on auto. Set to semi it isn'ta problem. </div></div>

glad to hear that.
 
#10
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

I agree. I have been in military service for twenty two years. I have been a marksmanship instructor for most of those years and have served in combat. In all that, I have never needed to use the forward assist, SGT Scott is correct, the deflector is only a consideration if you shoot left handed.
 
#11
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyanScott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't need either, even left handed. The only reason for the deflector is lefties getting smacked in the face on auto. Set to semi it isn'ta problem. </div></div>

Interesting. I've have an A1 upper and I've noted that the forward assist has brass markings on it similar to the marks on the shell deflectors of my other AR's. I figured it was acting as a makeshift deflector. Have you shot a lot of slabside M16's on full auto? Or were they M16A1's?
 
#13
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Salmonaxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyanScott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't need either, even left handed. The only reason for the deflector is lefties getting smacked in the face on auto. Set to semi it isn'ta problem. </div></div>

Interesting. I've have an A1 upper and I've noted that the forward assist has brass markings on it similar to the marks on the shell deflectors of my other AR's. I figured it was acting as a makeshift deflector. Have you shot a lot of slabside M16's on full auto? Or were they M16A1's? </div></div>

All of the automatic weapons I have fired had the deflector. Mostly I've shot M4A1s. But for several years my go to gun was a slickside and I've fird that left handed, supine, SBU, etc. Colt engineers have stated that they included the deflector because at a certain RPM brass tends to follow the receiver back and clip lefties.

 
#14
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

Well, it makes sense. Most other semi auto and full auto rifles don't have any shell deflector.

I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure that the shell deflector does decelerate brass and kick it forward. Because of this, I can place my rifle case in such a position that it catches most of my brass for later reloading.

Some day I would like to get a Sundevil Upper to match my lower. It doesn't have a standard deflector or forward assist.
 
#15
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Salmonaxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Some day I would like to get a Sundevil Upper to match my lower. It doesn't have a standard deflector or forward assist.</div></div>

It can, they make both. I thought I wanted the one with the forward assist....but you guys have confused me!
 
#16
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

Honestly, it is not a necessary feature. The only time the forward assist will be of any value is theoretically if the chamber is so fouled with powder residue or dirt and the bolt does not travel forward enough for the locking lugs to engage. It is doubtful that you would ever shoot it enough to get it that fouled (unless you shoot for years without cleaning it) or get enough dirt in it that it will not lock properly. If your fighting in the jungle maybe, but even in Iraq, I never had that problem.
 
#17
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

In carbines the deflector contacts the brass. Not as much in rifles. I wouldn't worry about a dirty chamber, but a fouled carrier gets sluggish when dry. More lube cures this.
 
#19
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

I'm a lefty. I have AR-15 uppers with and without the deflector bump. I can use either type and never think about it. Never had a problem. I also have some uppers with and without the forward assist. I just recently took the forward assist parts out and plugged the hole. I've never used it or needed it. I've even been to some schools/classes where I was told to NOT use it. I think these two features are now just personal preference unless you are in a war type situation. I've taken classes and shot several hundred rounds a day for up to five days and had no problems as long as I took time to periodically clean and lube properly. As a lefty, I've never had brass hit me in the face in either military or civilian shooting. Just my experience.
 
#20
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

The forward assist can cause malfunctions but it has less utility in clearing them. I don't ever touched it. Ever.

The deflector is only useful past a certain RPM. Also, good extraction and ejection will make it less useful. Some AR style rifles will not hit a deflector in any situation.

I need neither, and would prefer to have neither, as they add over two ounces of weight and add no utility. Although that doesn't sound like much, replacing a few parts with slightly lighter versions makes a light gun even lighter, and does it in a hurry. The SOPMOD M4A1, for instance, is easily two pounds overweight.
 
#21
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

The AR15/M16 would be just fine without it, but now you can't hardly sell a rifle without one. I've heard that removing it would cut two ounces and more than $20 from the cost of the firearm...
 
#22
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snow Dog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Article in this month's SWAT says to "never use the forward assist"

Has anyone out there used it successfully? I haven't. </div></div>

Have needed to use it in Iraq and now in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it's a range gun..who cares.

If it's a working gun and you actually know how to use it, you may want those. There are times when a silent chamber check may be warranted or when the rifle is so dirty it no longer fully seats (although that's usually time to transition). There are times when you need to shoot from the support side.

I won't have a working AR without both.</div></div>

+1

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The forward assist can cause malfunctions</div></div>
Hmmmm...I have not seen it but sure..if its dirty as hell.
It helps to clean it everyday in the field, if you can.
 
#23
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

I'm left eye dominant. Shooting 1000 yard prone with irons and sling support in Service Rifle competition, in low light, I usually need to crawl up the the rear sight to understand my sight picture. The recoil from the 80 grain bullets I'm shooting will push the forward assist toward my upper lip. This is painful, sometimes drawing blood, and, of course, causes me to loose concentration on the front sight.
 
#25
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

I have a rifle length 6.8 and I am wanting to change the upper to a slick side billet MEGA. I am left handed and will be shooting this rifle sitting, prone and standing (hunting). From what I read above due to the rifle length I will not need the brass deflector?
 
#26
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

Back in the olden days, before 30 round magazines roamed the earth the M16A1 lacked a brass deflector.

Lefties didnt lose any eyes, they were issued a detachable deflector that lasts 15 minutes out on patrol. Somehow they managed without them.

The forward assist came in real handy alot. Its one thing to use the AR in a relatively clean enviroment, ie a dusty range or LE Cruiser truck, another to drag one around in the muck and funk on a three day patrol.

Cleaning out on patrol is faster than teens in the backseat of the family car. A quick wipeoff of the bolt carrier with whatever is handy, the go rag or sock you carry in your armpit, it has to be fast. Last thing you want to test is how fast you can reassemble a fully field stripped 'teen under direct fire.

Anyway, I doubt a civilian Mouse gun needs a FA. I kind of like them but more because its familiar not because its needed.

Oh wait, now that I can shoot whatever I want my AR is an AK!
wink.gif
 
#27
Re: An AR without a shell deflector or forward assist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm left eye dominant. Shooting 1000 yard prone with irons and sling support in Service Rifle competition, in low light, I usually need to crawl up the the rear sight to understand my sight picture. The recoil from the 80 grain bullets I'm shooting will push the forward assist toward my upper lip. This is painful, sometimes drawing blood, and, of course, causes me to loose concentration on the front sight. </div></div>

I know a guy who had the same issue as you . Simple fix remove the forward assist..he did an does not get smacked in the face anymore ,at least not from his rifle
laugh.gif
 
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