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An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
- Thread starter Queequeg
- Start date
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
Now you've done it, our resident bike riding hippie is not going to be pleased
Now you've done it, our resident bike riding hippie is not going to be pleased
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
I like this part of his quote the best.
"We have had huge climate change in the past and to think the very slight variations we measure today are the result of our life - we really have to put ice blocks in our drinks."
Anthropomorphic climate change is a scam.
I like this part of his quote the best.
"We have had huge climate change in the past and to think the very slight variations we measure today are the result of our life - we really have to put ice blocks in our drinks."
Anthropomorphic climate change is a scam.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
Well
CO2 levels have never gone above 281 parts per million in 650,000 years of ice core data.
And there have been countless volcanic erruptions during that time period.
We're now at 380 parts per million
And that relatively sudden growth in CO2 levels fits perfectly with our growth in fossil fuel use.
Here's what the USGS has to say about the matter:http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/index.php
So, if we were to put that all aside then we're assuming Mr Plimer should have some type of observations or data collected that suggest a significant upswing in the amount of volcanic eruptions or CO2 creation from "outgassing".
I think you may be surprised to find that he doesn't portend to have any such data, and is instead just throwing around ideas which is great for conversation over a beer, but terrible practice for a scientist.
He's not an unfamiliar name to me though I've seen his name several times over the last several years.
He's been called out by several practicing scientists to back up his claims with any kind of valid data and has not surprisingly avoided providing anyone with any kind of citation for his hypothesis. So, for the time being I'm going to have to discount his information until he can back it up with atleast some kind of relevant data.
To be fair I haven't read his book, but I'll try to get around to it when I can find the time. Unfortunately lately I've been much busier than I'd like to be.
Well
CO2 levels have never gone above 281 parts per million in 650,000 years of ice core data.
And there have been countless volcanic erruptions during that time period.
We're now at 380 parts per million
And that relatively sudden growth in CO2 levels fits perfectly with our growth in fossil fuel use.
Here's what the USGS has to say about the matter:http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/index.php
So, if we were to put that all aside then we're assuming Mr Plimer should have some type of observations or data collected that suggest a significant upswing in the amount of volcanic eruptions or CO2 creation from "outgassing".
I think you may be surprised to find that he doesn't portend to have any such data, and is instead just throwing around ideas which is great for conversation over a beer, but terrible practice for a scientist.
He's not an unfamiliar name to me though I've seen his name several times over the last several years.
He's been called out by several practicing scientists to back up his claims with any kind of valid data and has not surprisingly avoided providing anyone with any kind of citation for his hypothesis. So, for the time being I'm going to have to discount his information until he can back it up with atleast some kind of relevant data.
To be fair I haven't read his book, but I'll try to get around to it when I can find the time. Unfortunately lately I've been much busier than I'd like to be.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
I should sum that up to be brief as far as we have recorded volcanos emit around 130 million tons of CO2 a year, and recorded human emissions are at around 24 billion tons a year.
Interperet that data as you find feasible.
I should sum that up to be brief as far as we have recorded volcanos emit around 130 million tons of CO2 a year, and recorded human emissions are at around 24 billion tons a year.
Interperet that data as you find feasible.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now you've done it, our resident bike riding hippie is not going to be pleased
</div></div>
Also Jason I'm way more of a hipster than a hippie.
Hippies believe in things like peace, and not showering, and doing drugs to free their mind.
I'm more into things like violence can solve problems when applied appropriately, showering regularly, and shooting rifles to free my mind
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now you've done it, our resident bike riding hippie is not going to be pleased
Also Jason I'm way more of a hipster than a hippie.
Hippies believe in things like peace, and not showering, and doing drugs to free their mind.
I'm more into things like violence can solve problems when applied appropriately, showering regularly, and shooting rifles to free my mind
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
I havent released enough carbon this week, so I drove my 450HP Charger to work today. I drove my truck about 250 miles yesterday to cut down some trees. I might torch them later
I love my carbon footprint
I havent released enough carbon this week, so I drove my 450HP Charger to work today. I drove my truck about 250 miles yesterday to cut down some trees. I might torch them later
I love my carbon footprint
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I havent released enough carbon this week, so I drove my 450HP Charger to work today. I drove my truck about 250 miles yesterday to cut down some trees. I might torch them later
I love my carbon footprint
</div></div>
I drove the v8 to work today.
I don't really care if humans bake themselves off the face of the Earth I don't have kids.
I just think honesty and integrity to scientific research and data are important.
Hahahaha.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I havent released enough carbon this week, so I drove my 450HP Charger to work today. I drove my truck about 250 miles yesterday to cut down some trees. I might torch them later
I love my carbon footprint
</div></div>
I drove the v8 to work today.
I don't really care if humans bake themselves off the face of the Earth I don't have kids.
I just think honesty and integrity to scientific research and data are important.
Hahahaha.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
I thought you'd enjoy this early gift. Remember, there are 3,056 days of Kwaaaaaaanzzzzaaa so the gifts just keep coming.
I found the propagandist reporting most laughable! You know, the dripping cynicism of Louise Gray, sneering at Dr. Plimer while lathering on praise for "Mainstream Scientists".
Sadly, your rebuttal is not as unequivocal as it needs to be to be as the fossilized CO2 volume, as measured in ice cores, and reported by politicized USGS reports, among others, have been refuted by other reports showing what Dr. Plimer has reported. Additionally, the C student reporter scoffed at "Solar and other Extraterrestrial" sources of climate change.
Again it's that damnable credibility problem dogging the climate change advocates' movement to shackle the world's population to an unaccountable, unassailable, worldwide governing body comprised of phonies, bullies and generalized assholes!
Come back to the force Torfinn!
I thought you'd enjoy this early gift. Remember, there are 3,056 days of Kwaaaaaaanzzzzaaa so the gifts just keep coming.
I found the propagandist reporting most laughable! You know, the dripping cynicism of Louise Gray, sneering at Dr. Plimer while lathering on praise for "Mainstream Scientists".
Sadly, your rebuttal is not as unequivocal as it needs to be to be as the fossilized CO2 volume, as measured in ice cores, and reported by politicized USGS reports, among others, have been refuted by other reports showing what Dr. Plimer has reported. Additionally, the C student reporter scoffed at "Solar and other Extraterrestrial" sources of climate change.
Again it's that damnable credibility problem dogging the climate change advocates' movement to shackle the world's population to an unaccountable, unassailable, worldwide governing body comprised of phonies, bullies and generalized assholes!
Come back to the force Torfinn!
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought you'd enjoy this early gift. Remember, there are 3,056 days of Kwaaaaaaanzzzzaaa so the gifts just keep coming.
I found the propagandist reporting most laughable! You know, the dripping cynicism of Louise Gray, sneering at Dr. Plimer while lathering on praise for "Mainstream Scientists".
Sadly, your rebuttal is not as unequivocal as it needs to be to be as the fossilized CO2 volume, as measured in ice cores, and reported by politicized USGS reports, among others, have been refuted by other reports showing what Dr. Plimer has reported. Additionally, the C student reporter scoffed at "Solar and other Extraterrestrial" sources of climate change.
Again it's that damnable credibility problem dogging the climate change advocates' movement to shackle the world's population to an unaccountable, unassailable, worldwide governing body comprised of phonies, bullies and generalized assholes!
Come back to the force Torfinn! </div></div>
Hahaha gimme some links on the refutations of the USGS reports I'd like to read those.
Here's real climate having a gripe fest with Plimer if you're interested.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/08/plimers-homework-assignment/comment-page-6/
So endless the gifts of Kwanza.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought you'd enjoy this early gift. Remember, there are 3,056 days of Kwaaaaaaanzzzzaaa so the gifts just keep coming.
I found the propagandist reporting most laughable! You know, the dripping cynicism of Louise Gray, sneering at Dr. Plimer while lathering on praise for "Mainstream Scientists".
Sadly, your rebuttal is not as unequivocal as it needs to be to be as the fossilized CO2 volume, as measured in ice cores, and reported by politicized USGS reports, among others, have been refuted by other reports showing what Dr. Plimer has reported. Additionally, the C student reporter scoffed at "Solar and other Extraterrestrial" sources of climate change.
Again it's that damnable credibility problem dogging the climate change advocates' movement to shackle the world's population to an unaccountable, unassailable, worldwide governing body comprised of phonies, bullies and generalized assholes!
Come back to the force Torfinn! </div></div>
Hahaha gimme some links on the refutations of the USGS reports I'd like to read those.
Here's real climate having a gripe fest with Plimer if you're interested.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/08/plimers-homework-assignment/comment-page-6/
So endless the gifts of Kwanza.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
I believe it disrspectful to spell it with only 2 A's.
You do realize that like Meteorologists, Geologists aren't climate experts per se?
I refer you to the 2nd to last thing I posted for you that you (of course, politely) rebuffed!
I believe you'll find it was given on day 2,376 of Kwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanzaa 2008.
I have no data to refute yours. As I've said before, I smell a rat and the evidence is piling up. I went to your link (Real Climate) and again am unsurprised at the invective and derision by the author(s), toward their opponents. Not something that argues well for persuasion.
I believe it disrspectful to spell it with only 2 A's.
You do realize that like Meteorologists, Geologists aren't climate experts per se?
I refer you to the 2nd to last thing I posted for you that you (of course, politely) rebuffed!
I believe you'll find it was given on day 2,376 of Kwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanzaa 2008.
I have no data to refute yours. As I've said before, I smell a rat and the evidence is piling up. I went to your link (Real Climate) and again am unsurprised at the invective and derision by the author(s), toward their opponents. Not something that argues well for persuasion.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
CW Your research is so whack it fails to verify the motherfuckin' hypothesis.
Boo-yah!
I feel this answers your quasi science quite sufficiently. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have matters of greater scientific consequence to attend to; namely, optimally increasing yo mama’s CO2 output until she reaches threshold. After that, “in the spirit of scientific endeavor,” I think I’ll increase my injection level until I completely populate her CO2 disposal point.
Served.
P.S. Yo mama is so big, she needs a multi-petabyte RAID array just to store her fat ass.
CW Your research is so whack it fails to verify the motherfuckin' hypothesis.
Boo-yah!
I feel this answers your quasi science quite sufficiently. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have matters of greater scientific consequence to attend to; namely, optimally increasing yo mama’s CO2 output until she reaches threshold. After that, “in the spirit of scientific endeavor,” I think I’ll increase my injection level until I completely populate her CO2 disposal point.
Served.
P.S. Yo mama is so big, she needs a multi-petabyte RAID array just to store her fat ass.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
Granted that the ppm CO2 levels are higher. My question is, has anyone actually proven that this increase in CO2 is in any way affecting our climate on a mass scale?
My solution to "global warming" is quite simple, assuming you believe it:
In the 80's CFC's were suposedly burning holes in our ozone layer which in turn would let out to much of the Earth's core heat. They were outlawed.
Now, CO2 is creating a greenhouse that is trapping in to much heat...
So, we just go back to using CFC's and balance everything out...simple.
Granted that the ppm CO2 levels are higher. My question is, has anyone actually proven that this increase in CO2 is in any way affecting our climate on a mass scale?
My solution to "global warming" is quite simple, assuming you believe it:
In the 80's CFC's were suposedly burning holes in our ozone layer which in turn would let out to much of the Earth's core heat. They were outlawed.
Now, CO2 is creating a greenhouse that is trapping in to much heat...
So, we just go back to using CFC's and balance everything out...simple.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Granted that the ppm CO2 levels are higher. My question is, has anyone actually proven that this increase in CO2 is in any way affecting our climate on a mass scale?
My solution to "global warming" is quite simple, assuming you believe it:
In the 80's CFC's were suposedly burning holes in our ozone layer which in turn would let out to much of the Earth's core heat. They were outlawed.
Now, CO2 is creating a greenhouse that is trapping in to much heat...
So, we just go back to using CFC's and balance everything out...simple. </div></div>
I haven't seen any research that indicated CFC's were causing a loss in mean temp. I'm pretty sure the holes in the ozone were a concern because they allow more radiation in, some of which translates to heat(pretty minute in the bigger picture though).
So CFC's would exacerbate the problem possibly.
I'm not positive but I'd imagine a thinner atmosphere would develope into a sort of positive feedback loop.
I like the Futurama solution just go to another planet and mine a giant icecube and drop it in the ocean from time to time
Prob solved.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Granted that the ppm CO2 levels are higher. My question is, has anyone actually proven that this increase in CO2 is in any way affecting our climate on a mass scale?
My solution to "global warming" is quite simple, assuming you believe it:
In the 80's CFC's were suposedly burning holes in our ozone layer which in turn would let out to much of the Earth's core heat. They were outlawed.
Now, CO2 is creating a greenhouse that is trapping in to much heat...
So, we just go back to using CFC's and balance everything out...simple. </div></div>
I haven't seen any research that indicated CFC's were causing a loss in mean temp. I'm pretty sure the holes in the ozone were a concern because they allow more radiation in, some of which translates to heat(pretty minute in the bigger picture though).
So CFC's would exacerbate the problem possibly.
I'm not positive but I'd imagine a thinner atmosphere would develope into a sort of positive feedback loop.
I like the Futurama solution just go to another planet and mine a giant icecube and drop it in the ocean from time to time
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now you've done it, our resident bike riding hippie is not going to be pleased
</div></div>
Also Jason I'm way more of a hipster than a hippie.
Hippies believe in things like peace, and not showering, and doing drugs to free their mind.
I'm more into things like violence can solve problems when applied appropriately, showering regularly, and shooting rifles to free my mind
</div></div>
Favorite post of the day...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now you've done it, our resident bike riding hippie is not going to be pleased
Also Jason I'm way more of a hipster than a hippie.
Hippies believe in things like peace, and not showering, and doing drugs to free their mind.
I'm more into things like violence can solve problems when applied appropriately, showering regularly, and shooting rifles to free my mind
</div></div>
Favorite post of the day...
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I havent released enough carbon this week, so I drove my 450HP Charger to work today. I drove my truck about 250 miles yesterday to cut down some trees. I might torch them later
I love my carbon footprint
</div></div>
I drove the v8 to work today.
<span style="font-size: 20pt">I don't really care if humans bake themselves off the face of the Earth I don't have kids.</span>
I just think honesty and integrity to scientific research and data are important.
Hahahaha.
</div></div>
I felt this response was the most meaningful! Damn sure funny!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I havent released enough carbon this week, so I drove my 450HP Charger to work today. I drove my truck about 250 miles yesterday to cut down some trees. I might torch them later
I love my carbon footprint
</div></div>
I drove the v8 to work today.
<span style="font-size: 20pt">I don't really care if humans bake themselves off the face of the Earth I don't have kids.</span>
I just think honesty and integrity to scientific research and data are important.
Hahahaha.
</div></div>
I felt this response was the most meaningful! Damn sure funny!
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
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Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
haha I love how he laughs when her ice cream cone melts. Such great subtle humor
haha I love how he laughs when her ice cream cone melts. Such great subtle humor
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So, if we were to put that all aside then we're assuming Mr Plimer should have some type of observations or data collected that suggest a significant upswing in the amount of volcanic eruptions or CO2 creation from "outgassing".
</div></div>
Assuming CO2 causes global warming, and there really is global warming, you ignored forest fires.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So, if we were to put that all aside then we're assuming Mr Plimer should have some type of observations or data collected that suggest a significant upswing in the amount of volcanic eruptions or CO2 creation from "outgassing".
</div></div>
Assuming CO2 causes global warming, and there really is global warming, you ignored forest fires.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
I thought cow's farting caused it, thats why I eat steak. Screw those Chick fil-a cows.
I thought cow's farting caused it, thats why I eat steak. Screw those Chick fil-a cows.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
Looks like the Hadley Climate Research Unit (the driving force behind Global Warming) had their computers hacked and email correspondence showing falsified numbers were been released. As it turns out these guys may have "cooked the books", so to speak, in order to spread their global warming theory. The files were made public on the 19th and now they have spread like wild fire.
Hadley is Gore's main source for Global Warming and Carbon Credit scheme. Hadley is the epicenter for the Global Warming movement.
For your perusal: Hosted Hadley Files.
The link is centered on one of the falsification email but click the top of the link and you can read all the files, there is 61MB worth of email so pour a pot of coffee.
Looks like the Hadley Climate Research Unit (the driving force behind Global Warming) had their computers hacked and email correspondence showing falsified numbers were been released. As it turns out these guys may have "cooked the books", so to speak, in order to spread their global warming theory. The files were made public on the 19th and now they have spread like wild fire.
Hadley is Gore's main source for Global Warming and Carbon Credit scheme. Hadley is the epicenter for the Global Warming movement.
For your perusal: Hosted Hadley Files.
The link is centered on one of the falsification email but click the top of the link and you can read all the files, there is 61MB worth of email so pour a pot of coffee.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
I think it's also worth commenting on the fact that proponent Scientists of the Global Warming Theory took their "data" directly to political figures in an attempt to expedite its attention. I find it strange that a scientist would want to take largely unproven data and politicize it unless their motivation was to side step having to support their hypotheses.
I think it's also worth commenting on the fact that proponent Scientists of the Global Warming Theory took their "data" directly to political figures in an attempt to expedite its attention. I find it strange that a scientist would want to take largely unproven data and politicize it unless their motivation was to side step having to support their hypotheses.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
I am still wondering why all that ice that covered most of North America and Europe have melted in the last 12,000 years. I guess you can blame that on the industrial revolution.
I am still wondering why all that ice that covered most of North America and Europe have melted in the last 12,000 years. I guess you can blame that on the industrial revolution.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
858,
Scientists are only corurupt bag men when they work for private corporations. If they derive tens of billions of dollars for producing bullshit for government entities or ax grinding "Progressive" foundations, funded by mega rich lefties, why then, their research is pure! We must ignore the wealth that accumulates among the climate change hoax promoters and look only at the oil, coal, auto, etc. industries as greedy.
It's rather like the blather one hears from people who work for "non-profit" organizations. As though they aren't paid exceedingly well, merely because they don't have stockholders to answer to. Yet it's good enough for the lazy affluent that populate much of the west: those who want to sound knowledgable about subject matter they assiduously avoided in college and know only what Sting tells them. They are placated by banal utterances like "speak truth to power" or, "It's a non-profit so...they can't be lying bags-o-Merde"
This "giant killing" e-mail story captures what anti bullshit advocates have been stressing all along. Regardless of facts to the contrary, the "Global Warming", er, I mean, "Man Made Climate Change" bullshitters have used political cronyism, patronage, corrupt media distortion and character assassination to advance the flimsiest construct they could slap together, each time another Lego fell out of their clubhouse: All to maintain this laughable, yet sinister, fraud.
Ironically, for all the horseshit we've heard by Warming/Climate change thugs about their compassion for the earth and it's health, at their root, the common denominator for this nonsense is population reduction. As they can't say this publicly, they act on it stealthily.
The news of this systemic, structured, multilevel conspiracy is just the tip of an iceburg of deception.
Ask yourself why then you'll know who stands to gain. That remains an immutable truth of mankind: Look first at <span style="font-size: 20pt">ALL</span> who stand to gain, not just one party or industry, that has been effectively demonized by popular media.
Frankly it reminds me of the dumbass O.J. Jurors who found his unbelievably guilty ass not guilty only because innocent wasn't an option!
Happy KWAAAAAAAAAAANZAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
858,
Scientists are only corurupt bag men when they work for private corporations. If they derive tens of billions of dollars for producing bullshit for government entities or ax grinding "Progressive" foundations, funded by mega rich lefties, why then, their research is pure! We must ignore the wealth that accumulates among the climate change hoax promoters and look only at the oil, coal, auto, etc. industries as greedy.
It's rather like the blather one hears from people who work for "non-profit" organizations. As though they aren't paid exceedingly well, merely because they don't have stockholders to answer to. Yet it's good enough for the lazy affluent that populate much of the west: those who want to sound knowledgable about subject matter they assiduously avoided in college and know only what Sting tells them. They are placated by banal utterances like "speak truth to power" or, "It's a non-profit so...they can't be lying bags-o-Merde"
This "giant killing" e-mail story captures what anti bullshit advocates have been stressing all along. Regardless of facts to the contrary, the "Global Warming", er, I mean, "Man Made Climate Change" bullshitters have used political cronyism, patronage, corrupt media distortion and character assassination to advance the flimsiest construct they could slap together, each time another Lego fell out of their clubhouse: All to maintain this laughable, yet sinister, fraud.
Ironically, for all the horseshit we've heard by Warming/Climate change thugs about their compassion for the earth and it's health, at their root, the common denominator for this nonsense is population reduction. As they can't say this publicly, they act on it stealthily.
The news of this systemic, structured, multilevel conspiracy is just the tip of an iceburg of deception.
Ask yourself why then you'll know who stands to gain. That remains an immutable truth of mankind: Look first at <span style="font-size: 20pt">ALL</span> who stand to gain, not just one party or industry, that has been effectively demonized by popular media.
Frankly it reminds me of the dumbass O.J. Jurors who found his unbelievably guilty ass not guilty only because innocent wasn't an option!
Happy KWAAAAAAAAAAANZAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
Maybe I'm just dumb, but I thought we came out of the ice age? maybe I don't know what I am talking about. Oh by the way the Pacific ocean has cooled off several degrees.
Maybe I'm just dumb, but I thought we came out of the ice age? maybe I don't know what I am talking about. Oh by the way the Pacific ocean has cooled off several degrees.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
To be fair, here is the response to the hacked email:
The CRU Hack
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The CRU hack
Filed under:
* Climate Science
— group @ 20 November 2009
As many of you will be aware, a large number of emails from the University of East Anglia webmail server were hacked recently (Despite some confusion generated by Anthony Watts, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Hadley Centre which is a completely separate institution). As people are also no doubt aware the breaking into of computers and releasing private information is illegal, and regardless of how they were obtained, posting private correspondence without permission is unethical. We therefore aren’t going to post any of the emails here. We were made aware of the existence of this archive last Tuesday morning when the hackers attempted to upload it to RealClimate, and we notified CRU of their possible security breach later that day.
Nonetheless, these emails (a presumably careful selection of (possibly edited?) correspondence dating back to 1996 and as recently as Nov 12) are being widely circulated, and therefore require some comment. Some of them involve people here (and the archive includes the first RealClimate email we ever sent out to colleagues) and include discussions we’ve had with the CRU folk on topics related to the surface temperature record and some paleo-related issues, mainly to ensure that posting were accurate.
Since emails are normally intended to be private, people writing them are, shall we say, somewhat freer in expressing themselves than they would in a public statement. For instance, we are sure it comes as no shock to know that many scientists do not hold Steve McIntyre in high regard. Nor that a large group of them thought that the Soon and Baliunas (2003), Douglass et al (2008) or McClean et al (2009) papers were not very good (to say the least) and should not have been published. These sentiments have been made abundantly clear in the literature (though possibly less bluntly).
More interesting is what is not contained in the emails. There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords. The truly paranoid will put this down to the hackers also being in on the plot though.
Instead, there is a peek into how scientists actually interact and the conflicts show that the community is a far cry from the monolith that is sometimes imagined. People working constructively to improve joint publications; scientists who are friendly and agree on many of the big picture issues, disagreeing at times about details and engaging in ‘robust’ discussions; Scientists expressing frustration at the misrepresentation of their work in politicized arenas and complaining when media reports get it wrong; Scientists resenting the time they have to take out of their research to deal with over-hyped nonsense. None of this should be shocking.
It’s obvious that the noise-generating components of the blogosphere will generate a lot of noise about this. but it’s important to remember that science doesn’t work because people are polite at all times. Gravity isn’t a useful theory because Newton was a nice person. QED isn’t powerful because Feynman was respectful of other people around him. Science works because different groups go about trying to find the best approximations of the truth, and are generally very competitive about that. That the same scientists can still all agree on the wording of an IPCC chapter for instance is thus even more remarkable.
No doubt, instances of cherry-picked and poorly-worded “gotcha” phrases will be pulled out of context. One example is worth mentioning quickly. Phil Jones in discussing the presentation of temperature reconstructions stated that “I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.” The paper in question is the Mann, Bradley and Hughes (1998) Nature paper on the original multiproxy temperature reconstruction, and the ‘trick’ is just to plot the instrumental records along with reconstruction so that the context of the recent warming is clear. Scientists often use the term “trick” to refer to a “a good way to deal with a problem”, rather than something that is “secret”, and so there is nothing problematic in this at all. As for the ‘decline’, it is well known that Keith Briffa’s maximum latewood tree ring density proxy diverges from the temperature records after 1960 (this is more commonly known as the “divergence problem”–see e.g. the recent discussion in this paper) and has been discussed in the literature since Briffa et al in Nature in 1998 (Nature, 391, 678-682). Those authors have always recommend not using the post 1960 part of their reconstruction, and so while ‘hiding’ is probably a poor choice of words (since it is ‘hidden’ in plain sight), not using the data in the plot is completely appropriate, as is further research to understand why this happens.
The timing of this particular episode is probably not coincidental. But if cherry-picked out-of-context phrases from stolen personal emails is the only response to the weight of the scientific evidence for the human influence on climate change, then there probably isn’t much to it.
There are of course lessons to be learned. Clearly no-one would have gone to this trouble if the academic object of study was the mating habits of European butterflies. That community’s internal discussions are probably safe from the public eye. But it is important to remember that emails do seem to exist forever, and that there is always a chance that they will be inadvertently released. Most people do not act as if this is true, but they probably should.
It is tempting to point fingers and declare that people should not have been so open with their thoughts, but who amongst us would really be happy to have all of their email made public?
Let he who is without PIN cast the the first stone.</div></div>
I personally think the response is flimsy and ignores all but "the trick" email.
To be fair, here is the response to the hacked email:
The CRU Hack
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The CRU hack
Filed under:
* Climate Science
— group @ 20 November 2009
As many of you will be aware, a large number of emails from the University of East Anglia webmail server were hacked recently (Despite some confusion generated by Anthony Watts, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Hadley Centre which is a completely separate institution). As people are also no doubt aware the breaking into of computers and releasing private information is illegal, and regardless of how they were obtained, posting private correspondence without permission is unethical. We therefore aren’t going to post any of the emails here. We were made aware of the existence of this archive last Tuesday morning when the hackers attempted to upload it to RealClimate, and we notified CRU of their possible security breach later that day.
Nonetheless, these emails (a presumably careful selection of (possibly edited?) correspondence dating back to 1996 and as recently as Nov 12) are being widely circulated, and therefore require some comment. Some of them involve people here (and the archive includes the first RealClimate email we ever sent out to colleagues) and include discussions we’ve had with the CRU folk on topics related to the surface temperature record and some paleo-related issues, mainly to ensure that posting were accurate.
Since emails are normally intended to be private, people writing them are, shall we say, somewhat freer in expressing themselves than they would in a public statement. For instance, we are sure it comes as no shock to know that many scientists do not hold Steve McIntyre in high regard. Nor that a large group of them thought that the Soon and Baliunas (2003), Douglass et al (2008) or McClean et al (2009) papers were not very good (to say the least) and should not have been published. These sentiments have been made abundantly clear in the literature (though possibly less bluntly).
More interesting is what is not contained in the emails. There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords. The truly paranoid will put this down to the hackers also being in on the plot though.
Instead, there is a peek into how scientists actually interact and the conflicts show that the community is a far cry from the monolith that is sometimes imagined. People working constructively to improve joint publications; scientists who are friendly and agree on many of the big picture issues, disagreeing at times about details and engaging in ‘robust’ discussions; Scientists expressing frustration at the misrepresentation of their work in politicized arenas and complaining when media reports get it wrong; Scientists resenting the time they have to take out of their research to deal with over-hyped nonsense. None of this should be shocking.
It’s obvious that the noise-generating components of the blogosphere will generate a lot of noise about this. but it’s important to remember that science doesn’t work because people are polite at all times. Gravity isn’t a useful theory because Newton was a nice person. QED isn’t powerful because Feynman was respectful of other people around him. Science works because different groups go about trying to find the best approximations of the truth, and are generally very competitive about that. That the same scientists can still all agree on the wording of an IPCC chapter for instance is thus even more remarkable.
No doubt, instances of cherry-picked and poorly-worded “gotcha” phrases will be pulled out of context. One example is worth mentioning quickly. Phil Jones in discussing the presentation of temperature reconstructions stated that “I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.” The paper in question is the Mann, Bradley and Hughes (1998) Nature paper on the original multiproxy temperature reconstruction, and the ‘trick’ is just to plot the instrumental records along with reconstruction so that the context of the recent warming is clear. Scientists often use the term “trick” to refer to a “a good way to deal with a problem”, rather than something that is “secret”, and so there is nothing problematic in this at all. As for the ‘decline’, it is well known that Keith Briffa’s maximum latewood tree ring density proxy diverges from the temperature records after 1960 (this is more commonly known as the “divergence problem”–see e.g. the recent discussion in this paper) and has been discussed in the literature since Briffa et al in Nature in 1998 (Nature, 391, 678-682). Those authors have always recommend not using the post 1960 part of their reconstruction, and so while ‘hiding’ is probably a poor choice of words (since it is ‘hidden’ in plain sight), not using the data in the plot is completely appropriate, as is further research to understand why this happens.
The timing of this particular episode is probably not coincidental. But if cherry-picked out-of-context phrases from stolen personal emails is the only response to the weight of the scientific evidence for the human influence on climate change, then there probably isn’t much to it.
There are of course lessons to be learned. Clearly no-one would have gone to this trouble if the academic object of study was the mating habits of European butterflies. That community’s internal discussions are probably safe from the public eye. But it is important to remember that emails do seem to exist forever, and that there is always a chance that they will be inadvertently released. Most people do not act as if this is true, but they probably should.
It is tempting to point fingers and declare that people should not have been so open with their thoughts, but who amongst us would really be happy to have all of their email made public?
Let he who is without PIN cast the the first stone.</div></div>
I personally think the response is flimsy and ignores all but "the trick" email.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Climate change data dumped
Jonathan Leake, Environment Editor
* 293 Comments
Recommend? (405)
SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.
It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.
The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation.
The data were gathered from weather stations around the world and then adjusted to take account of variables in the way they were collected. The revised figures were kept, but the originals — stored on paper and magnetic tape — were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building.
Related Links
* The great climate change science scandal
* EU figurehead says climate change a myth
The admission follows the leaking of a thousand private emails sent and received by Professor Phil Jones, the CRU’s director. In them he discusses thwarting climate sceptics seeking access to such data.
In a statement on its website, the CRU said: “We do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (quality controlled and homogenised) data.”
The CRU is the world’s leading centre for reconstructing past climate and temperatures. Climate change sceptics have long been keen to examine exactly how its data were compiled. That is now impossible.
Roger Pielke, professor of environmental studies at Colorado University, discovered data had been lost when he asked for original records. “The CRU is basically saying, ‘Trust us’. So much for settling questions and resolving debates with science,” he said.
Jones was not in charge of the CRU when the data were thrown away in the 1980s, a time when climate change was seen as a less pressing issue. The lost material was used to build the databases that have been his life’s work, showing how the world has warmed by 0.8C over the past 157 years.
He and his colleagues say this temperature rise is “unequivocally” linked to greenhouse gas emissions generated by humans. Their findings are one of the main pieces of evidence used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which says global warming is a threat to humanity.</div></div>
Trust us!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Climate change data dumped
Jonathan Leake, Environment Editor
* 293 Comments
Recommend? (405)
SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.
It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.
The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation.
The data were gathered from weather stations around the world and then adjusted to take account of variables in the way they were collected. The revised figures were kept, but the originals — stored on paper and magnetic tape — were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building.
Related Links
* The great climate change science scandal
* EU figurehead says climate change a myth
The admission follows the leaking of a thousand private emails sent and received by Professor Phil Jones, the CRU’s director. In them he discusses thwarting climate sceptics seeking access to such data.
In a statement on its website, the CRU said: “We do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (quality controlled and homogenised) data.”
The CRU is the world’s leading centre for reconstructing past climate and temperatures. Climate change sceptics have long been keen to examine exactly how its data were compiled. That is now impossible.
Roger Pielke, professor of environmental studies at Colorado University, discovered data had been lost when he asked for original records. “The CRU is basically saying, ‘Trust us’. So much for settling questions and resolving debates with science,” he said.
Jones was not in charge of the CRU when the data were thrown away in the 1980s, a time when climate change was seen as a less pressing issue. The lost material was used to build the databases that have been his life’s work, showing how the world has warmed by 0.8C over the past 157 years.
He and his colleagues say this temperature rise is “unequivocally” linked to greenhouse gas emissions generated by humans. Their findings are one of the main pieces of evidence used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which says global warming is a threat to humanity.</div></div>
Trust us!
G
Guest
Guest
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
For the first time in my life, ever, I have seen tobacco growing in fields after the first of November.
Not only is it growing, having regenerated from stalks yet to be plowed under, but it appears to be thriving.
With the current forecast, it will even still be growing on December 1st.
I saw the field yesterday while scouting for ducks.
The damned stuff is at least 2 feet high and with leaves that are 6-8" wide x 12-14" long.
Now call whatever the Hell you want, but in my book, that's seriously fucked up!
For the first time in my life, ever, I have seen tobacco growing in fields after the first of November.
Not only is it growing, having regenerated from stalks yet to be plowed under, but it appears to be thriving.
With the current forecast, it will even still be growing on December 1st.
I saw the field yesterday while scouting for ducks.
The damned stuff is at least 2 feet high and with leaves that are 6-8" wide x 12-14" long.
Now call whatever the Hell you want, but in my book, that's seriously fucked up!
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
And three years ago my azaleas bloomed in late November, so that means a bunch of communists aren't attempting the greatest wool pulling scam in history? Believe as you please, but I require unequivocal proof before I sign on to the coronation of lying bastards and a unremovable class of frauds posing as my protectors.
A very elastic metric is in place that chafes at the patriot act but welcomes an even more intrusive and, (now plainly revealed) fraudulent construct, flimsily intended to be for the good of mankind.
Suckers taken in by assholes. Once again.
I'm not buying. Enjoy your Indian summer.
And three years ago my azaleas bloomed in late November, so that means a bunch of communists aren't attempting the greatest wool pulling scam in history? Believe as you please, but I require unequivocal proof before I sign on to the coronation of lying bastards and a unremovable class of frauds posing as my protectors.
A very elastic metric is in place that chafes at the patriot act but welcomes an even more intrusive and, (now plainly revealed) fraudulent construct, flimsily intended to be for the good of mankind.
Suckers taken in by assholes. Once again.
I'm not buying. Enjoy your Indian summer.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And three years ago my azaleas bloomed in late November, so that means a bunch of communists aren't attempting the greatest wool pulling scam in history? Believe as you please, but I require unequivocal proof before I sign on to the coronation of lying bastards and a unremovable class of frauds posing as my protectors.
A very elastic metric is in place that chafes at the patriot act but welcomes an even more intrusive and, (now plainly revealed) fraudulent construct, flimsily intended to be for the good of mankind.
Suckers taken in by assholes. Once again.
I'm not buying. Enjoy your Indian summer. </div></div>
queequeg, WTF is this incoherent post? Are you taking correspondence grammar classes from the University of NOBODY? Laffin.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And three years ago my azaleas bloomed in late November, so that means a bunch of communists aren't attempting the greatest wool pulling scam in history? Believe as you please, but I require unequivocal proof before I sign on to the coronation of lying bastards and a unremovable class of frauds posing as my protectors.
A very elastic metric is in place that chafes at the patriot act but welcomes an even more intrusive and, (now plainly revealed) fraudulent construct, flimsily intended to be for the good of mankind.
Suckers taken in by assholes. Once again.
I'm not buying. Enjoy your Indian summer. </div></div>
queequeg, WTF is this incoherent post? Are you taking correspondence grammar classes from the University of NOBODY? Laffin.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the first time in my life, ever, I have seen tobacco growing in fields after the first of November.
Not only is it growing, having regenerated from stalks yet to be plowed under, but it appears to be thriving.
With the current forecast, it will even still be growing on December 1st.
I saw the field yesterday while scouting for ducks.
The damned stuff is at least 2 feet high and with leaves that are 6-8" wide x 12-14" long.
Now call whatever the Hell you want, but in my book, that's seriously fucked up!
</div></div>
Last year we had a tremendous amount of snow, in fact, more than I've seen in a very long time. Portland was snowed in for a few weeks. Ask Torfinn, he even remarked how unusual it was. Maybe it was caused by global cooling?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the first time in my life, ever, I have seen tobacco growing in fields after the first of November.
Not only is it growing, having regenerated from stalks yet to be plowed under, but it appears to be thriving.
With the current forecast, it will even still be growing on December 1st.
I saw the field yesterday while scouting for ducks.
The damned stuff is at least 2 feet high and with leaves that are 6-8" wide x 12-14" long.
Now call whatever the Hell you want, but in my book, that's seriously fucked up!
</div></div>
Last year we had a tremendous amount of snow, in fact, more than I've seen in a very long time. Portland was snowed in for a few weeks. Ask Torfinn, he even remarked how unusual it was. Maybe it was caused by global cooling?
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And three years ago my azaleas bloomed in late November, so that means a bunch of communists aren't attempting the greatest wool pulling scam in history? Believe as you please, but I require unequivocal proof before I sign on to the coronation of lying bastards and a unremovable class of frauds posing as my protectors.
A very elastic metric is in place that chafes at the patriot act but welcomes an even more intrusive and, (now plainly revealed) fraudulent construct, flimsily intended to be for the good of mankind.
Suckers taken in by assholes. Once again.
I'm not buying. Enjoy your Indian summer. </div></div>
queequeg, WTF is this incoherent post? Are you taking correspondence grammar classes from the University of NOBODY? Laffin.
</div></div>
I thought it was remarkably succinct. Coming from your's truly, that takes real effort.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And three years ago my azaleas bloomed in late November, so that means a bunch of communists aren't attempting the greatest wool pulling scam in history? Believe as you please, but I require unequivocal proof before I sign on to the coronation of lying bastards and a unremovable class of frauds posing as my protectors.
A very elastic metric is in place that chafes at the patriot act but welcomes an even more intrusive and, (now plainly revealed) fraudulent construct, flimsily intended to be for the good of mankind.
Suckers taken in by assholes. Once again.
I'm not buying. Enjoy your Indian summer. </div></div>
queequeg, WTF is this incoherent post? Are you taking correspondence grammar classes from the University of NOBODY? Laffin.
I thought it was remarkably succinct. Coming from your's truly, that takes real effort.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the first time in my life, ever, I have seen tobacco growing in fields after the first of November.
Not only is it growing, having regenerated from stalks yet to be plowed under, but it appears to be thriving.
With the current forecast, it will even still be growing on December 1st.
I saw the field yesterday while scouting for ducks.
The damned stuff is at least 2 feet high and with leaves that are 6-8" wide x 12-14" long.
Now call whatever the Hell you want, but in my book, that's seriously fucked up!
</div></div>
Last year we had a tremendous amount of snow, in fact, more than I've seen in a very long time. Portland was snowed in for a few weeks. Ask Torfinn, he even remarked how unusual it was. Maybe it was caused by global cooling? </div></div>
Dude, last winter was extreme in every sense here in Portland. I've lived here/surrounding area for just over 15 years and we've never even come close to a solid 2 weeks of 2 feet of snow in the metro area.
We also had the hottest day recorded this summer in the metro area.
It's constantly brought up so I'll speak to the talking point.
Global warming=the overall warming of the planet.
Global cooling=was a debunked theory that was popularized by the media in the 70s, and never really had a large scientific following outside of the generally accepted ocean currents driving ice ages.
I grain of rice inside the bowl always sounds plausible and makes for a good doom and gloom news story.
Climate change encompasses any and all opinions about the climate in regards to the change.
We do know that the climate is changing, and regardless of what most scientists have concluded the cause of that may or may not be this is accurately described as "climate change".
I prefer the term "global climate destabilization" because that is a more accurate description in my opinion.
Needless to say, I agree wholly with QQ's assertion that singular weather events mean basically fuck-all in the grand scheme of things.
A great deal of data must be collected in order to make any valid scientific determinations. The overall picture is what is important when you're measuring things on a global scale.
Localized geographical weather can vary significantly based on all kinds of factors outside of the status of the atmosphere as a whole so it does nothing to clear the waters to point at singular events without a lot of data backing them up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tucker301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the first time in my life, ever, I have seen tobacco growing in fields after the first of November.
Not only is it growing, having regenerated from stalks yet to be plowed under, but it appears to be thriving.
With the current forecast, it will even still be growing on December 1st.
I saw the field yesterday while scouting for ducks.
The damned stuff is at least 2 feet high and with leaves that are 6-8" wide x 12-14" long.
Now call whatever the Hell you want, but in my book, that's seriously fucked up!
</div></div>
Last year we had a tremendous amount of snow, in fact, more than I've seen in a very long time. Portland was snowed in for a few weeks. Ask Torfinn, he even remarked how unusual it was. Maybe it was caused by global cooling? </div></div>
Dude, last winter was extreme in every sense here in Portland. I've lived here/surrounding area for just over 15 years and we've never even come close to a solid 2 weeks of 2 feet of snow in the metro area.
We also had the hottest day recorded this summer in the metro area.
It's constantly brought up so I'll speak to the talking point.
Global warming=the overall warming of the planet.
Global cooling=was a debunked theory that was popularized by the media in the 70s, and never really had a large scientific following outside of the generally accepted ocean currents driving ice ages.
I grain of rice inside the bowl always sounds plausible and makes for a good doom and gloom news story.
Climate change encompasses any and all opinions about the climate in regards to the change.
We do know that the climate is changing, and regardless of what most scientists have concluded the cause of that may or may not be this is accurately described as "climate change".
I prefer the term "global climate destabilization" because that is a more accurate description in my opinion.
Needless to say, I agree wholly with QQ's assertion that singular weather events mean basically fuck-all in the grand scheme of things.
A great deal of data must be collected in order to make any valid scientific determinations. The overall picture is what is important when you're measuring things on a global scale.
Localized geographical weather can vary significantly based on all kinds of factors outside of the status of the atmosphere as a whole so it does nothing to clear the waters to point at singular events without a lot of data backing them up.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dude, last winter was extreme in every sense here in Portland. I've lived here/surrounding area for just over 15 years and we've never even come close to a solid 2 weeks of 2 feet of snow in the metro area.
</div></div>
Continuing with the theme of 'succinct' -
Barry, Global Warming, and so many other nit wit ideas which are propped up by mass marketing and the concept of 'if you pay to repeat the tag line enough times people that fail to think for themselves will come to accept it as truth' and as such these ideas are primarily supported by the dumb and the young.
Courage - last year's winter was nothing historically. Prehaps you should review this.
Secondly - stasis has never been a part of the plan. As such climate change is normal and NOT something that an exclusive group of financiers should be able to personally enrich themselves via scamming the middle classes of the world.
Good luck
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dude, last winter was extreme in every sense here in Portland. I've lived here/surrounding area for just over 15 years and we've never even come close to a solid 2 weeks of 2 feet of snow in the metro area.
</div></div>
Continuing with the theme of 'succinct' -
Barry, Global Warming, and so many other nit wit ideas which are propped up by mass marketing and the concept of 'if you pay to repeat the tag line enough times people that fail to think for themselves will come to accept it as truth' and as such these ideas are primarily supported by the dumb and the young.
Courage - last year's winter was nothing historically. Prehaps you should review this.
Secondly - stasis has never been a part of the plan. As such climate change is normal and NOT something that an exclusive group of financiers should be able to personally enrich themselves via scamming the middle classes of the world.
Good luck
G
Guest
Guest
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And three years ago my azaleas bloomed in late November, </div></div>
You're in Florida.
Basic climatological rules do not apply.
Turn off your left blinker while you're at it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And three years ago my azaleas bloomed in late November, </div></div>
You're in Florida.
Basic climatological rules do not apply.
Turn off your left blinker while you're at it.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We do know that the climate is changing, and regardless of what most scientists have concluded the cause of that may or may not be this is accurately described as "climate change".
</div></div>
We agree on a lot of points, this included. The the "man made" part that is wear we hit a fork in the road.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We do know that the climate is changing, and regardless of what most scientists have concluded the cause of that may or may not be this is accurately described as "climate change".
</div></div>
We agree on a lot of points, this included. The the "man made" part that is wear we hit a fork in the road.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dude, last winter was extreme in every sense here in Portland. I've lived here/surrounding area for just over 15 years and we've never even come close to a solid 2 weeks of 2 feet of snow in the metro area.
</div></div>
Continuing with the theme of 'succinct' -
Barry, Global Warming, and so many other nit wit ideas which are propped up by mass marketing and the concept of 'if you pay to repeat the tag line enough times people that fail to think for themselves will come to accept it as truth' and as such these ideas are primarily supported by the dumb and the young.
Courage - last year's winter was nothing historically. Prehaps you should review this.
Secondly - stasis has never been a part of the plan. As such climate change is normal and NOT something that an exclusive group of financiers should be able to personally enrich themselves via scamming the middle classes of the world.
Good luck </div></div>
My point that I was making was simply that you can't pinpoint singular weather events and try to make a statement about the globe. So whether or not that was the most extreme winter I experienced in my relatively short 15 years in Portland is completely inconsequential.
It would really be convenient if there was no effect to dumping dozens of billions of tons of aerosolized CO2 into the atmosphere which had been stored in various materials underground for the last several million to billion years having an impact on the temperature of the planet was simply an idea supported by some PR machine or the "young and dumb", however the carbon cycle is as well known a science as gravity, evolution, the Earth's position in the solar system etc etc etc.
I don't believe any of these things because someone else told it to me. I believe them because I've made testable observations and studied the science that describes these mechanisms in depth and come to the conclusion that the vast majority of the thousands of scientists who are working in the field are in fact not full of shit.
There may be a few misses, but overall the collected data speaks for itself in my opinion.
It's not rocket science to look at a graph of the amount of carbon transferred into the atmosphere and correlate it to a sharp upswing in global temperature averages.
Sure the climate changes naturally. Everyone knows that, and I've never seen a research paper about the climate that didn't account for every variable we know that can cause that. You mention things like this as if they've been completely ignored, when in fact the majority of the body of evidence gathered takes in full account the variations in energy received from the sun, and historical patterns and changes before us.
I'm guessing you haven't researched much of that material though because you've written it off immediately as some sort of PR conspiracy to collect your money.
I've got news for you this has happened a dozen times before, and the pattern in which it's occuring is no different than the scientific consensus on Lead, or Tobacco, and not surprisingly most of the media purporting to "debunk the conspiracy" is actually revolving around the same groups which lead the fight against the evil scientists when they said leaded gasoline was filling our children's lungs.
If you don't believe that I highly encourage you to read this article about the 75 year long battle between scientists and the industries promoting the use of lead. There are in fact people to this day that still cling to the bullshit spewed in that campaign as if it weren't a complete batch of nonsense.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20000320/kitman
I've said it before and I'll say it again. We as a species are not the Omega, and our continued existence on this particular rock won't matter a billion years from now so I simply enjoy the fact that I've personally had the opportunity to exist.
If we bake ourselves right off the face of it so be it, but misdirecting science, facts and knowledge will drive me crazy and I will continue to argue in these threads as a result.
It's funny you think so lowly of the "young and dumb". In my most recent cellular biology class we had basically 2 whole weeks of class devoted to advances in the science which humans had only been aware of in the last 10 years of discoveries. Those young and dumb students will graduate knowing significantly more than those who went before them based upon the work of those before them, and it will continue over and over and over again.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dude, last winter was extreme in every sense here in Portland. I've lived here/surrounding area for just over 15 years and we've never even come close to a solid 2 weeks of 2 feet of snow in the metro area.
</div></div>
Continuing with the theme of 'succinct' -
Barry, Global Warming, and so many other nit wit ideas which are propped up by mass marketing and the concept of 'if you pay to repeat the tag line enough times people that fail to think for themselves will come to accept it as truth' and as such these ideas are primarily supported by the dumb and the young.
Courage - last year's winter was nothing historically. Prehaps you should review this.
Secondly - stasis has never been a part of the plan. As such climate change is normal and NOT something that an exclusive group of financiers should be able to personally enrich themselves via scamming the middle classes of the world.
Good luck </div></div>
My point that I was making was simply that you can't pinpoint singular weather events and try to make a statement about the globe. So whether or not that was the most extreme winter I experienced in my relatively short 15 years in Portland is completely inconsequential.
It would really be convenient if there was no effect to dumping dozens of billions of tons of aerosolized CO2 into the atmosphere which had been stored in various materials underground for the last several million to billion years having an impact on the temperature of the planet was simply an idea supported by some PR machine or the "young and dumb", however the carbon cycle is as well known a science as gravity, evolution, the Earth's position in the solar system etc etc etc.
I don't believe any of these things because someone else told it to me. I believe them because I've made testable observations and studied the science that describes these mechanisms in depth and come to the conclusion that the vast majority of the thousands of scientists who are working in the field are in fact not full of shit.
There may be a few misses, but overall the collected data speaks for itself in my opinion.
It's not rocket science to look at a graph of the amount of carbon transferred into the atmosphere and correlate it to a sharp upswing in global temperature averages.
Sure the climate changes naturally. Everyone knows that, and I've never seen a research paper about the climate that didn't account for every variable we know that can cause that. You mention things like this as if they've been completely ignored, when in fact the majority of the body of evidence gathered takes in full account the variations in energy received from the sun, and historical patterns and changes before us.
I'm guessing you haven't researched much of that material though because you've written it off immediately as some sort of PR conspiracy to collect your money.
I've got news for you this has happened a dozen times before, and the pattern in which it's occuring is no different than the scientific consensus on Lead, or Tobacco, and not surprisingly most of the media purporting to "debunk the conspiracy" is actually revolving around the same groups which lead the fight against the evil scientists when they said leaded gasoline was filling our children's lungs.
If you don't believe that I highly encourage you to read this article about the 75 year long battle between scientists and the industries promoting the use of lead. There are in fact people to this day that still cling to the bullshit spewed in that campaign as if it weren't a complete batch of nonsense.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20000320/kitman
I've said it before and I'll say it again. We as a species are not the Omega, and our continued existence on this particular rock won't matter a billion years from now so I simply enjoy the fact that I've personally had the opportunity to exist.
If we bake ourselves right off the face of it so be it, but misdirecting science, facts and knowledge will drive me crazy and I will continue to argue in these threads as a result.
It's funny you think so lowly of the "young and dumb". In my most recent cellular biology class we had basically 2 whole weeks of class devoted to advances in the science which humans had only been aware of in the last 10 years of discoveries. Those young and dumb students will graduate knowing significantly more than those who went before them based upon the work of those before them, and it will continue over and over and over again.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
Looks like professors are beginning to resign over the email scandal. Why would you quit if you did everything right?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/24/climate-professor-leaked-emails-uea
Looks like professors are beginning to resign over the email scandal. Why would you quit if you did everything right?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/24/climate-professor-leaked-emails-uea
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like professors are beginning to resign over the email scandal. Why would you quit if you did everything right?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/24/climate-professor-leaked-emails-uea
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I must've missed that the only note on resignation I saw in there was :
Trevor Davies, the University of East Anglia's pro-vice-chancellor with responsibility for research, rejected calls – including from the Guardian commentator George Monbiot – for Jones to resign: "We see no reason for Professor Jones to resign and, indeed, we would not accept his resignation. He is a valued and important scientist."
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like professors are beginning to resign over the email scandal. Why would you quit if you did everything right?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/24/climate-professor-leaked-emails-uea
</div></div>
I must've missed that the only note on resignation I saw in there was :
Trevor Davies, the University of East Anglia's pro-vice-chancellor with responsibility for research, rejected calls – including from the Guardian commentator George Monbiot – for Jones to resign: "We see no reason for Professor Jones to resign and, indeed, we would not accept his resignation. He is a valued and important scientist."
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
http://curly15.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/jones-must-resign-monbiot/
http://curly15.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/jones-must-resign-monbiot/
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://curly15.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/jones-must-resign-monbiot/ </div></div>
Well I know Monbiot wants him to resign, but Monbiot is just a blogger.
I want the princess of blowjobs to be my live in French maid, but that don't mean I'm gonna get wife approval.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://curly15.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/jones-must-resign-monbiot/ </div></div>
Well I know Monbiot wants him to resign, but Monbiot is just a blogger.
I want the princess of blowjobs to be my live in French maid, but that don't mean I'm gonna get wife approval.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://curly15.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/jones-must-resign-monbiot/ </div></div>
Well I know Monbiot wants him to resign, but Monbiot is just a blogger.
I want the princess of blowjobs to be my live in French maid, but that don't mean I'm gonna get wife approval. </div></div>
You have something against the duchess of BJs?
Torf my brother, you gotta admit, Johnnie Cochrane would have had a hard time spewing enough bullshit to cover up for this degree of structural fraud, long alleged, now plainly revealed in the leaked e-mails! That several media sources had this information as long as two (or more) months ago, completely slays any credibility the BBC or the others in question, ever had. Admittedly, they had very little!
This is a very large problem for the man made warming/climate change angle, and no amount of fast talking, obfuscation or vitriolic demonization will distract those who seek the truth.
Nobody said the climate isn't changing, we just need proof, degree of damage, if any, and rational, economically weighed and reasoned remedies if they they can be applied.
Credibility, gained in inches, lost in yards.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 858</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://curly15.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/jones-must-resign-monbiot/ </div></div>
Well I know Monbiot wants him to resign, but Monbiot is just a blogger.
I want the princess of blowjobs to be my live in French maid, but that don't mean I'm gonna get wife approval. </div></div>
You have something against the duchess of BJs?
Torf my brother, you gotta admit, Johnnie Cochrane would have had a hard time spewing enough bullshit to cover up for this degree of structural fraud, long alleged, now plainly revealed in the leaked e-mails! That several media sources had this information as long as two (or more) months ago, completely slays any credibility the BBC or the others in question, ever had. Admittedly, they had very little!
This is a very large problem for the man made warming/climate change angle, and no amount of fast talking, obfuscation or vitriolic demonization will distract those who seek the truth.
Nobody said the climate isn't changing, we just need proof, degree of damage, if any, and rational, economically weighed and reasoned remedies if they they can be applied.
Credibility, gained in inches, lost in yards.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
Honestly I was just trying to find a way to get that princess of bjs thing out it's been floating around in the cranium for a minute
As far as the CRU hack goes that's going to take some time to settle.
The first week or so of concerned reporting has produced nothign but fluff from both sides as far as I can tell.
We'll see how it all pans out. In the end, we may end up with 3 guys giving several thousand a bad name, but who can say that's a first?
Also, am I missing something aren't white people allowed to celebrate Kwanzaa?
If I'd have realized I was being incensitive everytime I wished all of my non saltine variety friends happy Kwanzaa every year I would've stopped I swears it!
Honestly I was just trying to find a way to get that princess of bjs thing out it's been floating around in the cranium for a minute
As far as the CRU hack goes that's going to take some time to settle.
The first week or so of concerned reporting has produced nothign but fluff from both sides as far as I can tell.
We'll see how it all pans out. In the end, we may end up with 3 guys giving several thousand a bad name, but who can say that's a first?
Also, am I missing something aren't white people allowed to celebrate Kwanzaa?
If I'd have realized I was being incensitive everytime I wished all of my non saltine variety friends happy Kwanzaa every year I would've stopped I swears it!
G
Guest
Guest
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
At the rate this society is going, there will soon be a contrived gay holiday we'll all be <span style="text-decoration: underline">harangued</span> to observe. I'll be laughing at that one too!
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I'm pretty sure that's December 8th.
If they can ever get that touchless reproduction thing worked out, we're done fer.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
At the rate this society is going, there will soon be a contrived gay holiday we'll all be <span style="text-decoration: underline">harangued</span> to observe. I'll be laughing at that one too!
</div></div>
I'm pretty sure that's December 8th.
If they can ever get that touchless reproduction thing worked out, we're done fer.
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
Damnit I felt like I had mis-spelled that word. And knew who'd bust me on it.
Thanks.
Don't forget Festivus on the 23rd!
I especially enjoy the airing of grievances!
Damnit I felt like I had mis-spelled that word. And knew who'd bust me on it.
Thanks.
Don't forget Festivus on the 23rd!
I especially enjoy the airing of grievances!
G
Guest
Guest
Re: An Early Kwaaaaanzaa gift for CourageWolf
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