Its interesting to hear how OUR beef industry is being manipulated
Maggie’s An interesting video on beef production
- Thread starter wvfarrier
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Damn, will be checking with my local Food Lion to see if they are importing meat.
Plenty of beef in my AO but no Processors available. They tell me it's the government shutting everyone down down as far as the little guy goes.
Getting down to the point where I'm going Process my own cow to fill the freezer.
Getting down to the point where I'm going Process my own cow to fill the freezer.
I bought a ¼ of beef earlier this year, the guy that I got it from has appointments already set up for 2025. There are no openings available for the next 1-2 years at any of the local lockers. Deer processing is mostly limited to the meat having to be deboned, they are taking whole deer anymore.
I grew up on a farm/ranch. When I left home we had ~1,300 of cattle...cows. +75-100 bulls, calves hit the ground in Feb-Mar every year. Sold calves either in the fall after they were weaned or before calving started again. Neighbors had feed lots, they would feed them out until they were ready for market. All of that is still going on, but the "big corporate" farm lots are definitely putting a hurt on the family farms. Same with pork and poultry.
Shouldn’t this open the door to niche, small or custom processors? As I understand it, you don’t have to be FDA approved to be a processor. Only if you sell meat across state lines.
How much does it take to set up to process beefers , pigs, lambs and goats? Free enterprise should step in where big business is leaving opportunitty.
Sirhr
How much does it take to set up to process beefers , pigs, lambs and goats? Free enterprise should step in where big business is leaving opportunitty.
Sirhr
I'm told the gov is blocking them and shutting them down where they can.
I'm sure its for the children and we have to kill the industry to prevent cow farts and control the peasants...
Let me axe the expert. @abn31c to the blue courtesy phone, please.
walk in cooler and freezer, size dependent on volume,
cutting or processing room, also refrigerated,
must be cleaned (per state law) daily, figure shut it down, clean, sanitize etc for a few hours)
subject to State Dept of Heath (sanitation checks)
cleaning and sanitation chemicals are monitored as far as used and storage
type of equipment must be approved, (no sears bandsaw for example,,)
waste services needed
help is hard to find, Meat Cutters are not in demand any more, at least not like they used to be,
COOL labels have been mandatory for a good while, Country Of Origin Label, but are not monitored much, and may be inaccurate,
never farmed it or grew it, but did spend 19 yr (apprentice, journeyman Cutter, and Meat Dept Manager) while in the Gro Biz, (finished 35 yrs in the biz as a Store Manager in several high volume stores)
corporations would rather pay Smithfield, or some company to process meat , as in sell it prepacked, then do it in house,
saves labor, pay a clerk $12 or less to put out packages vs $18+ to cut it,, and any liability falls back on the processor not the store ( as in contamination etc)
and a supply savings as well, those foam trays and wrap are not as cheap as it used to be
meat cutting is a trade or skill, easy to teach, but the finesse has pretty much gone from the business, hard to show pride in your work when you are cryovac'ing the meat in a vacuum bag, or pushed for production and using a bandsaw for every thing and not a knife,,, and now what little beef is cut in a store is from packers as Block Ready primals, open the bag, drop a knife thru them and tray, no skill really needed, little to no trim to learn how to profit from,
Shit, I don't even know where to start. It takes a bunch of money to kill beef today.
Guess I am not thinking about it at the industrial level but more at the rural level. Whether a mobile processor or town/county level supporting the small farmer (couple to a half-dozen beefers or small pig operation, etc)
I remember a few years ago someone I knew had a son who apprenticed as a meat cutter and was doing well at that level… but I lost touch. I remember the kid, just not how he is doing. But he had a good business started doing mobile processing.
Do tell more… here to learn. It’s an important skill/trade and if it is lost for the small scale farmer, that is a bad thing.
Sirhr
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S Roche
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Three of us get together when we butcher a steer or hog and all of us have skills that would get us a job at a locker. It takes a lot of equipment to do the job properly and cleanly. Killing area, over head trolley rails, meat hooks, hoist, walk-in cooler, sanitary cutting tables, saws, grinder, knives, packaging equipment, and lots of running water, etc. Hogs are easy at 300# but a steer at 1400# adds to the work load until broken down into pieces. The knife work is the part where higher skills are needed to get to the packaging stage. Knives need frequent use of a steel to keep the knives sharp so that rules out 9 of 10 people that think they can be a butcher. Butchering is not a simple job without experience. Yes it can be done the quick way, think chainsaw and axe, but that's not the route we chose many years ago. ETA: We have requests to process animals for others but politely refuse. We are very fortunate to have access to this equipment and not having to rely on the services of a commercial locker.
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I know one that had to stop because the dump said they couldn't accept the bones anymore. They are finding many sneaky bureaucratic ways to shut things down. Whats that called again? FACISM maybe...
Small business will not-cannot start a new locker plant for the same reasons small business can't start a small oil refinery.
I understand... but am not talking about small oil refinery. Think about Microbreweries and small distillaries... 30 years ago, folks would have said "No chance."
But today, these small entities are thriving everywhere.
Food trucks are another thing... While giant chains and fast food were stomping 'single' restaurants... along comes the food truck. And they are thriving.
I can't think it would be impossible for small processors to start up for their 'neighborhoods.' Or local cooperaties and farms. Nope you won't have a giant locker or freezer... but an overhead? Not hard. Things like that can go in a reefer truck.
As I said... trying to understand if the issue is, in part, that the entrepreneurs have not caught up with the market yet. Consolidation is tough and leaves a mess. But in the mess, usually folks manage to find their way to fill the gaps. That takes time... kids who see a job opportunity? Learning to be cutters/butchers? Figuring out equipment and stuff. I can see a lag and some difficulty starting. But are they Verboten? Can feds Verboten them?
Interesting thread... which gets one thinking. Guess I just see opportunity where some see roadbloacks. But maybe I'm too optimistic!
Cheers,
Sirhr
The guys I mentioned still have room for hanging game. So its not everywhere people are booked out so far in advance. I can't imagine making an appointment for 2025 to get an animal cut up. I wonder what percentage of those will cancel when the time comes.
Are you familiar with the Bearded Butchers on YouTube?
It's an interesting channel.
I get what you're saying about the food truck microbrewery and distillery industries however with that being said those industries would find tough to survive in rural America without the customer base large urban areas provide. I think it'll be the same for the small meat and game processing business. Not enough need to support such a business in rural America. We have a few custom cut game processing business here in Central Oregon however as need and demand is now much less than say 40 years ago they are getting harder to find.
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^^^^^^^^^^^This, along with Americans learning to be FUCKING AMERICANS AGAIN. Learn to process your own meat, and teach your children to be self sufficient instead of looking to someone/something else to do it.
I am at the middle of what he is discussing. I am 48 and spent my life being stocker / back grounder. Every year we would plant wheat or some other cool season mix for winter grazing. Dad and I would run thousands of cattle putting gain on them and createing feeder cattle for the feedyard. I was independent and free. Then the Batista's showed up.
www.farmprogress.com
An already corrupt buisness was taken to a new level. It is all about vertical intergration. They want to control the beef industry like the pork and chicken industry. They set out to destroy the small producers. They wanted me out and they succeeded.
I can not live off of $40 a head profit margins with todays inputs and risk.
They targeted seasonal selling times at the sale barns by sitting on their hands for just enough time to back cattle up. I do theorize that the same packers use the Chicago Merc Feeder and Live pits in their manipulation. These pits are very small in volume and easily manipulated when a deep pockets trader like JBS wants to.
The values from these contracts are used by thousands of producers to create price discovery in the market.
The whole infustry is screwed. I no longer have my buisness as it should be. Coupled with high grain prices, inflation, increased risk, etc.....I am now raising seedstock (un profitably). I am just waiting to see if I can ever get back in.
Brazil’s Batista brothers are out of jail and worth $6 billion
The Batista saga is steeped in proximity to power. Their endgame, as many JBS executives have stated during the years, is listing the meat giant in the U.S.
An already corrupt buisness was taken to a new level. It is all about vertical intergration. They want to control the beef industry like the pork and chicken industry. They set out to destroy the small producers. They wanted me out and they succeeded.
I can not live off of $40 a head profit margins with todays inputs and risk.
They targeted seasonal selling times at the sale barns by sitting on their hands for just enough time to back cattle up. I do theorize that the same packers use the Chicago Merc Feeder and Live pits in their manipulation. These pits are very small in volume and easily manipulated when a deep pockets trader like JBS wants to.
The values from these contracts are used by thousands of producers to create price discovery in the market.
The whole infustry is screwed. I no longer have my buisness as it should be. Coupled with high grain prices, inflation, increased risk, etc.....I am now raising seedstock (un profitably). I am just waiting to see if I can ever get back in.
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Up this way gov, either state or local, are hammering small farms with BS restrictions or just pulling their status.
All these woke towns live their "Farmers Markets" they just seem to hate the Farmers.
It's too hard to train a crew to correctly do beef and hogs. You choose the one benefits you most and stick to it.
From what I understand the processing is completely different between the two animals.
I've been involved in processing of beef never pork.
10,800 hogs in 8 hours. Design rate. They probably run 5-6 days per week. They may run 2 shifts with the third shift dedicated to cleaning
From a friend that builds food processing plants all over the world. Those are hard numbers for a small producer to compete against, or a consumer to pay for when going to a little guy.
It is like my small printing company competing against online printing options. I know how those big guys are set up - it is amazing tech, I have a great shop, but no way can I beat them on price. It’s about really taking exceptional care of our clients, but at times they don’t care.
I still can’t wrap my mind around getting that many hogs into a facility daily, weekly, annually…. Actually production rate is surely less than 10,800…
Paper mills aren’t glamorous either - probably smell worse than a rendering facility. I never thought we’d have trouble getting paper in American, or that I’d be on allocation for the pounds of certain paper varieties that I can buy monthly. That is just another rat hole crawl down.
From a friend that builds food processing plants all over the world. Those are hard numbers for a small producer to compete against, or a consumer to pay for when going to a little guy.
It is like my small printing company competing against online printing options. I know how those big guys are set up - it is amazing tech, I have a great shop, but no way can I beat them on price. It’s about really taking exceptional care of our clients, but at times they don’t care.
I still can’t wrap my mind around getting that many hogs into a facility daily, weekly, annually…. Actually production rate is surely less than 10,800…
Paper mills aren’t glamorous either - probably smell worse than a rendering facility. I never thought we’d have trouble getting paper in American, or that I’d be on allocation for the pounds of certain paper varieties that I can buy monthly. That is just another rat hole crawl down.
Same here. I picked up a whole beef last week last week. Booked January and processed September of the following year.
We had to drive about two hours away to pick it up too. There's a massive processing facility about 5 minutes away. If I booked now, my kids might be able to pick up sometime after I punch my timecard.
Different industry but i believe its the same deal. There are 3 investment firms buying all the bodyshops in north america. They give offers small mom and pops cant refuse. And if for some reason they do refuse a whole slew of inspections start. They also work hand in hand with insurance company's calling them partners. This screws the customer first and the commissioned tech next. Give it a few years and there wont be any small family businesses left.
Safelite? Anyone?
It’s happening with the trades too. Look at what’s going on in the HVAC industry. PE groups buy suppliers and then expand to the service side. Then they push out the independent small business owners by jacking up their wholesale prices.
Everyone is pushing trades right now but I just don’t see the golden years continuing forever. The writings on the wall. Watch how the money moves…
Same thing happenned in medicine and now happening in dentistry. How do you feel about your healthcare now that insurance controlled conglomerates own almost all the industry? For example, is your healthcare facility still requiring masks?.......the private ones are not if you can find one. I have been offered stupid dollars for my practice by corporate med groups and it's getting harder and harder to get insurance reimbursement if you are not a "preferred provider". It's become predominantly slanted to being an employee vs practice owner. No young practitioners coming out start a practice...they go work for the corporate entities running everybody else out. I am older and been practicing 28 years so my attitude it fuck off...I will shut the doors before I cave to the corporate vulchers and watch them ruin my patient oriented practice. Moving forward you won't be able to find an objective, independent and concerned about you the patient healthcare professional. It's almost there now all for the sake of getting paid or for the patient paying a little less while settling for insurance driven care.
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The biggest deterrents in the state of MO is EPA and MO DNR, and finding help. The water run-off from the kill floor is deemed hazardous, too many chemicals used in clean-up. They just won’t issue the required permits. When I was a kid, 60 years ago every town had a local butcher shop, today we have one about every 90-100 miles apart. These are custom shops that only butcher for their customers. 95% of the fat cattle are slaughtered in large commercial packing plants. They, the packing plants make far more money on the beef than the farmers do, generally in excess of $500 per head, net. The farmers are lucky to make $200 a head. Things are screwed up in the meat industry and going to get worse, especially the cattle industry. Drought has forced many producers to liquidate their entire herd. You can‘t raise cattle without feed and water.
I've been telling everyone if the insurance company wont fix your car right imagine how it is in the medical field. Ive heard some pretty scary things from family in the medical field.
Insert @Threadcutter308 's Lerch thingy here.Just wait. The government will be here to help. IJoe Biden
They are also back logged like crazy. You have to plan months in advance or you're screwed and that was was a few years ago. I can't imagine that has gotten any better.
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