Any experience with Tract 4-25X50 Zeiss clone?

[4O6shootist]

Curious if anyone has any time behind the Tract 4-25X50 scope? It's clearly of the same oem who makes the Zeiss S3 4-25 as the dimensions are the same, same 47mil internal elevation, locking turrets, blah blah blah. Anyway I own a S3, and like it, but actually prefer the Tract reticle. Was curious if anyone has any info to review it? Or knows a place to get the best deal on one.

 

[Kiba]

I've been waiting for a first hand report as well, provided they arrived and shipped out on time.

Should be good since it obviously shares an OEM design lineage with the 4-25 S3 (I bet tract comes out with a 6-36 with specs almost identical to the S3 6-36 sooner rather than later)-- although the Zeiss lens coatings may lead to a better image and glare/flare handling on the S3 than the tract. All guesses though until someone reports in after looking through both side by side.

With Zeiss dealers saying they're getting hit with a price increase in July, the tract will be even more attractively priced than the S3.

As far as where to buy... I thought tract was focused on direct sales only. Probably not going to get a better deal on one than buying direct with the LE/mil discount (if that's available to you.)

 

[Rob01]

Yeah I believe Tract is direct purchase. I like the specs of the new scope and that reticle but I like the knobs on the Zeiss better. I had the original ELR and a nice scope but the knobs go up real high even unlocking. I wish they only made it a 1/4” raise to unlock. That would be a better set up for me.

 

[4O6shootist]

Yeah I believe Tract is direct purchase. I like the specs of the new scope and that reticle but I like the knobs on the Zeiss better. I had the original ELR and a nice scope but the knobs go up real high even unlocking. I wish they only made it a 1/4” raise to unlock. That would be a better set up for me.

Yeah I haven't been around any of the Tract scopes to even compare them to anything, agreed the turrets are unnecessarily tall for what they are accomplishing. The glass should be pretty good at the price point, if they're similar to the lrp S3. I do have the ability to get into another S3 for similar pricing to the msrp of the Tract. I need another optic for a loaner prs rig for local club and trying to get the best glass at the 1500$ price point.

 

[leendertp]

The whole OEM clone thing fascinates me. I wish there was more publicly available information.

This is a scope from a South African company, made in Japan too that looks like the same scope too. This one is probably 2-3 years old so I think it might predate the S3.

Lynx Optics

 

[4O6shootist]

The whole OEM clone thing fascinates me. I wish there was more publicly available information.

This is a scope from a South African company, made in Japan too that looks like the same scope too. This one is probably 2-3 years old so I think it might predate the S3.

Lynx Optics

Man there's another! And in a small forieng market to boot.

 

[carbonbased]

Anyway I own a S3, and like it, but actually prefer the Tract reticle.

I like the Tract reticle better too. Much better. Thanks for posting this.

I do, however, prefer the industrial design and turrets of the Zeiss (visually, don’t own one).

 

[Scopeye]

I'd personally buy the Tract version due to it's Lifetime warranty Including electronics while the Zeiss only has a limited 2 or 3 year warranty on their electronics such as their illuminated reticles and all electronics will and do go bad. Most folks overlook this electronics warranty fact while thinking or assuming they have a lifetime warranty. This is why I no longer buy certain brands such as Nightforce specifically with illuminated reticles and won't consider buying Steiner with electronics and no longer recommend SIG or Trijicon if they have any type of electronics in them due to their limited 5 year warranty from DATE OF MANUFACTURE AND NOT DATE OF ACTUAL PURCHASE and their warranty may in fact already be expired by the time you buy them during their close out sales. Date of manufacture is based on their serial number which only the company knows and the buyers won't know if they still have any warranty left until after the fact. It may not seem fair to the consumer who have no control over how long they've been actually sitting in a warehouse or retailers inventory but their 5 year warranty from date of manufacture NOT date of actual purchase is totally legal since it's clearly stated on their own websites under their warranty section. Whenever I constantly see used SIG rangefinder binoculars with sellers still posting they have a lifetime warranty SMDH...

 

[Scopeye]

Have a friend or relative in law enforcement or military or first responders active or retired buy it for you for the 15% discount or wait for their next sale they normally have 2x a year during Xmas and around now or mid summer however not as cheap as the 15% off for law enforcement military first responders discount.

 

[FuhQ]

Curious if anyone has any time behind the Tract 4-25X50 scope? It's clearly of the same oem who makes the Zeiss S3 4-25 as the dimensions are the same, same 47mil internal elevation, locking turrets, blah blah blah. Anyway I own a S3, and like it, but actually prefer the Tract reticle. Was curious if anyone has any info to review it? Or knows a place to get the best deal on one.

Not sure who builds TT scopes, but I know the Zeiss LRP S3 is built by LOW in Japan. Same folks who build the Conquest V4's, Razors, and glass for lots of other top-end companies like Burris and NF.

 

[Rob01]

I'd personally buy the Tract version due to it's Lifetime warranty Including electronics while the Zeiss only has a limited 2 or 3 year warranty on their electronics such as their illuminated reticles and all electronics will and do go bad.

Trying to hit most posts you posted this bad info in. The Zeiss is 5 years on electronics. Not 2 or 3 years.

Also to the whole OEM thing, just because scopes share a similar outside appearance does not mean they are the same. Internals, glass and specs the contracting company want the scope held to is what matters. They are not all the same in similar looking scopes.

 

[4O6shootist]

I'm going to order a Tract today, screw it. Will let you all know how it does in a few weeks once I'm home.

 

[Scopeye]

Trying to hit most posts you posted this bad info in. The Zeiss is 5 years on electronics. Not 2 or 3 years.

Also to the whole OEM thing, just because scopes share a similar outside appearance does not mean they are the same. Internals, glass and specs the contracting company want the scope held to is what matters. They are not all the same in similar looking scopes.

Thanks for the clarification on the 5 year warranty for Zeiss. Must have gotten mixed up with some of their binoculars warranty.

 

[penguinofsleep]

OP looks like you already ordered but:

I got a S3 4-25 a few weeks ago and tried another one in person before buying it - and tried an S5 as well. I also spent about 45-60 minutes looking through a Tract 4.5-30 and a 4-25 over the weekend with a friend who got both recently. In short, I'd be happy with either one, but I prefer the S3 slightly. [[Edit: realistically, it would come down to price at the time of purchase - and I'm really not sure about the S3 being $500+ "gooder" than the Toric]]

Keeping in mind I'm probably biased because I had to spend my own money on the S3 vs I looked through both Tract scopes for free, but in short, I like the "scope" part of the S3 slightly more in most ways and like the reticle on the Tract 4-25 a little more. I also expected them roughly the same optic but they were more different than I expected. Specifics below but I'm not sure how much any of the below aside from the reticle is simply due to unit/unit variation vs different optics vs don't know because small sample size.
-------------------------
Specifically:
S3 - I like the knobs on the S3 better, the "eye box" on both is slightly tight but just somehow it felt slightly better on the Zeiss at different magnifications and looking through the glass was easier on my eyes after 30 minutes - not sure why for either of these as they should both be using the same or similar Schott glass (Zeiss owns Schott IIRC) and have a similar mechanical design / parts from LOW. Etching of the reticle just seems to be "deeper" and the reticle just seems to have better contrast. The turrets are tall but not too tall like the Toric (especially when pulled up to adjust), elevation is not locking (obv personal preference) and windage is, and has slightly firmer / more distinct clicks, windage knob has perfect for me clicks / feel (again, personal preference). Clicks on windage knob for me was even better than the S5 or several other 10 or 12 mil/rev knobs on "better" scopes. The demo I tried in the store was not quite on the windage knob but had a slightly better feeling elevation knob. I also like how the S3 comes with the magnification adjustment lever that can screw into 3 different positions vs the Toric requires a separate slip-on lever that can only sit in one position.

Toric 4-25 - I like the reticle slightly better - I don't like how the subtensions on the horizontal axis change in size so much on the S3 but overall, I still like the reticle on the S3 - I just think the reticle on the Toric is more refined and better thought out. Also, it was a tiny / possibly placebo level difference, but I feel like the Toric showed colors a tiny bit more clearly and correctly than the S3 when compared side by side. The Toric has a much better feeling focus adjustment but has a narrower range of "in focus" vs the Zeiss - not sure why. I also like how the parallax is labeled on the Toric vs the vague rectangles on the S3. While I didn't test it and have 0 empirical evidence, the finish on the Toric seems like it'd be more robust. Toric includes a sunshade vs I have to buy it for the S3 and neither include flip up caps - both include "something" though.

One thing that irks me with both is how sensitive the parallax is - I feel like I have to readjust at 150 vs 160 vs 170yd or even slightly at 320 vs 330yd. This is not the case with many other optics for me.

With all of the above being said, I feel like the 4.5-30 Toric was a tiny to little bit better than the 4-25 Toric in almost every way beyond the typical improvements I would expect going to a slightly larger objective. Only way it wasn't better is it only parallaxes down to 25 instead of 15 and more elevation. The glass was a little easier on my eyes after a while (not sure why as I assume it should be the same glass and I don't experience this with other similar scopes only by going to a larger obj), the turrets clicked a little "gooder" than the 4-25 Toric for me, the magnification knob was just smoother (not that the 4-25 one isn't), there is a little bit bigger range of in focus and the adjustment is smoother than either the S3 or 4-25 Toric, the overall image quality just felt a bit better throughout the entire range, and there weren't slightly blurry edges at certain parts of the magnification range. In short, I wouldn't get the 4-25 over the 4.5-30 unless I either needed the lower parallax, smaller obj, the elevation or somehow just really needed to save $200 on a $1500+ purchase. I can't say I would get the 4.5-30 over the S3 though every time though. [[Edit: Regardless, both Toric scopes were good and I'd buy one in the future if needed.]]

 

[Scopeye]

OP looks like you already ordered but:

I got a S3 4-25 a few weeks ago and tried another one in person before buying it - and tried an S5 as well. I also spent about 45-60 minutes looking through a Tract 4.5-30 and a 4-25 over the weekend with a friend who got both recently. In short, I'd be happy with either one, but I prefer the S3 slightly. [[Edit: realistically, it would come down to price at the time of purchase - and I'm really not sure about the S3 being $500+ "gooder" than the Toric]]

Keeping in mind I'm probably biased because I had to spend my own money on the S3 vs I looked through both Tract scopes for free, but in short, I like the "scope" part of the S3 slightly more in most ways and like the reticle on the Tract 4-25 a little more. I also expected them roughly the same optic but they were more different than I expected. Specifics below but I'm not sure how much any of the below aside from the reticle is simply due to unit/unit variation vs different optics vs don't know because small sample size.
-------------------------
Specifically:
S3 - I like the knobs on the S3 better, the "eye box" on both is slightly tight but just somehow it felt slightly better on the Zeiss at different magnifications and looking through the glass was easier on my eyes after 30 minutes - not sure why for either of these as they should both be using the same or similar Schott glass (Zeiss owns Schott IIRC) and have a similar mechanical design / parts from LOW. Etching of the reticle just seems to be "deeper" and the reticle just seems to have better contrast. The turrets are tall but not too tall like the Toric (especially when pulled up to adjust), elevation is not locking (obv personal preference) and windage is, and has slightly firmer / more distinct clicks, windage knob has perfect for me clicks / feel (again, personal preference). Clicks on windage knob for me was even better than the S5 or several other 10 or 12 mil/rev knobs on "better" scopes. The demo I tried in the store was not quite on the windage knob but had a slightly better feeling elevation knob. I also like how the S3 comes with the magnification adjustment lever that can screw into 3 different positions vs the Toric requires a separate slip-on lever that can only sit in one position.

Toric 4-25 - I like the reticle slightly better - I don't like how the subtensions on the horizontal axis change in size so much on the S3 but overall, I still like the reticle on the S3 - I just think the reticle on the Toric is more refined and better thought out. Also, it was a tiny / possibly placebo level difference, but I feel like the Toric showed colors a tiny bit more clearly and correctly than the S3 when compared side by side. The Toric has a much better feeling focus adjustment but has a narrower range of "in focus" vs the Zeiss - not sure why. I also like how the parallax is labeled on the Toric vs the vague rectangles on the S3. While I didn't test it and have 0 empirical evidence, the finish on the Toric seems like it'd be more robust. Toric includes a sunshade vs I have to buy it for the S3 and neither include flip up caps - both include "something" though.

One thing that irks me with both is how sensitive the parallax is - I feel like I have to readjust at 150 vs 160 vs 170yd or even slightly at 320 vs 330yd. This is not the case with many other optics for me.

With all of the above being said, I feel like the 4.5-30 Toric was a tiny to little bit better than the 4-25 Toric in almost every way beyond the typical improvements I would expect going to a slightly larger objective. Only way it wasn't better is it only parallaxes down to 25 instead of 15 and more elevation. The glass was a little easier on my eyes after a while (not sure why as I assume it should be the same glass and I don't experience this with other similar scopes only by going to a larger obj), the turrets clicked a little "gooder" than the 4-25 Toric for me, the magnification knob was just smoother (not that the 4-25 one isn't), there is a little bit bigger range of in focus and the adjustment is smoother than either the S3 or 4-25 Toric, the overall image quality just felt a bit better throughout the entire range, and there weren't slightly blurry edges at certain parts of the magnification range. In short, I wouldn't get the 4-25 over the 4.5-30 unless I either needed the lower parallax, smaller obj, the elevation or somehow just really needed to save $200 on a $1500+ purchase. I can't say I would get the 4.5-30 over the S3 though every time though. [[Edit: Regardless, both Toric scopes were good and I'd buy one in the future if needed.]]

I've personally owned 3 Tract Toric scopes, 2 of the 4-20x50 30mm and a 4.5-30x56 34mm and parted ways with both 4-20s and kept the 4.5-30x due to this model being optically superior based ony own testing AND when I compared them to my cheaper Chinese Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50 that I purchased afterwards I prefer the Athlon and bought 2 more of them even after comparing it to my Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 and fortunately didn't pay their typical $869.99 (overly inflated) street price either and they're currently on sale for $565.49 through Walmart online which is ridiculously cheap for them.

 

[Scopeye]

I'm going to order a Tract today, screw it. Will let you all know how it does in a few weeks once I'm home.

I'd sure like to see how it compares to the Athlon Ares BTR Gen 2 4.5-27x50 maybe order one through Walmart online for $565.49 with free shipping and free returns and plan to return one of them some they both have a money back guarantee. I actually prefer the Athlon over the 2 4-20x50 Tract Torics I had and parted with (both of them) and bought more of the Athlon Ares.

 

[penguinofsleep]

I've personally owned 3 Tract Toric scopes, 2 of the 4-20x50 30mm and a 4.5-30x56 34mm and parted ways with both 4-20s and kept the 4.5-30x due to this model being optically superior based ony own testing AND when I compared them to my cheaper Chinese Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50 that I purchased afterwards I prefer the Athlon and bought 2 more of them even after comparing it to my Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 and fortunately didn't pay their typical $869.99 (overly inflated) street price either and they're currently on sale for $565.49 through Walmart online which is ridiculously cheap for them.

Out of curiosity, what is it about the Ares BTR 4.5-27 that you prefer? Hopefully this doesn't derail the thread.

Don't have experience with that particular BTR, but I have an Ares ETR 4.5-30 (which is for sale right now - but I was and still am pretty happy with it - only selling because a good deal on the the S3 replaced it... but maybe I should just have it as a spare scope?) and while I didn't try the Tract 4.5-30 and ETR 4.5-30 back to back, I felt like the glass is easier to look through on the ETR but was as good in terms of performance (close though) and the ETR has better clicks on the turrets while maybe also being harder to dial correctly without looking for me (guessing based on memory). OTOH, I like the reticle more on the Tract even though they're both similar and felt that the Toric as a whole in most ways was slightly better made / more refined (and it should for the price difference). Again, this is just off of memory. However, it's close enough that if I were to buy one or the other, I'd probably pick the Tract for the reticle. If cost was the main concern, I'd have no problems with the ETR.

 

[Scopeye]

Out of curiosity, what is it about the Ares BTR 4.5-27 that you prefer? Hopefully this doesn't derail the thread.

Don't have experience with that particular BTR, but I have an Ares ETR 4.5-30 (which is for sale right now - but I was and still am pretty happy with it - only selling because a good deal on the the S3 replaced it... but maybe I should just have it as a spare scope?) and while I didn't try the Tract 4.5-30 and ETR 4.5-30 back to back, I felt like the glass is easier to look through on the ETR but was as good in terms of performance (close though) and the ETR has better clicks on the turrets while maybe also being harder to dial correctly without looking for me (guessing based on memory). OTOH, I like the reticle more on the Tract even though they're both similar and felt that the Toric as a whole in most ways was slightly better made / more refined (and it should for the price difference). Again, this is just off of memory. However, it's close enough that if I were to buy one or the other, I'd probably pick the Tract for the reticle. If cost was the main concern, I'd have no problems with the ETR.

Relatively light weight 27.3oz for a FFP 30mm 4.5-27x50 with 85MOA/25MILs total elevation travel plus current sale price of $565.49 with free shipping and free returns through Walmart online. It doesn't give me any eye fatigue or stress. Reliable tactile turrets. Very nice glass and clearer than the new Bushnell Match Pro ED and Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 and Strike Eagle and all other non Athlon sub $1000 Chinese made scopes sold by other brands. Among myself and several shooting buddies we bought and returned a hell of a lot of scopes over the past years in fact decades in my personal experience and nothing made in China sold by other brands regardless of price could beat it. I prefer it over the Japan LOW made Tract Toric 4-20x50 after comparing specially at 4.5-20x. Also prefer it over the Japan made $1500 Element Nexus 5-20x50 after comparing at 4.5-20x in image quality and turrets. It's not quite as good as my Nightforce NX8 4.32x50 F1 but chose to buy two more of these Chinese Athlon Ares instead of another NX8 and prefer the lifetime warranty including their electronics such as illuminated reticle vs the Nightforce 3 year electronics warranty on it's illuminated reticle. I call it the budget Nightforce NX6 made in China and for $565.49 is insanely cheap for what the Athlon Ares BTR actually offers. I can glass through the Athlon for hours on end without any eye fatigue which can't be said about most other made in China scopes I've tried. My eyes are overly sensitive to crappy glass.

I normally prefer to buy at least Japan made optics specially by LOW not JOL.

I personally wouldn't recommend buying the Ares ETR due to it's cost since it's still made in China and you could buy a superior non Chinese made scope such as the Meopta Optika 6 instead for less money. I spent just a little extra and bought the Athlon Cronus BTR instead of the Ares ETR on the advice of several different Athlon dealers who advised that theade I'm Japan (LOW) Cronus was better quality and did also mention the Ares ETR was a bit overpriced even when they're on sale for $900 especially for Chinese made scopes in their own dealer opinions.

 

[JohnCarter17]

Yeah I believe Tract is direct purchase. I like the specs of the new scope and that reticle but I like the knobs on the Zeiss better. I had the original ELR and a nice scope but the knobs go up real high even unlocking. I wish they only made it a 1/4” raise to unlock. That would be a better set up for me.

Rob, IIRC either you or Glassaholic was comparing Burris XTR3 vs Razor 3 vs Tract scopes. I recall reading discussion of tunneling with the Tract, which was the first I heard of it. Did you experience any on this model?

 

[JohnCarter17]

Trying to hit most posts you posted this bad info in. The Zeiss is 5 years on electronics. Not 2 or 3 years.

Also to the whole OEM thing, just because scopes share a similar outside appearance does not mean they are the same. Internals, glass and specs the contracting company want the scope held to is what matters. They are not all the same in similar looking scopes.

Agreed, if his warranty FUD posts (fear uncertainty and doubt) were accurate this forum would be littered with people complaining about it, but I haven't run into the piles of Alpha or Beta tier scope users who have issues with their scope's electronics (out of warranty or otherwise).

 

[Rob01]

Rob, IIRC either you or Glassaholic was comparing Burris XTR3 vs Razor 3 vs Tract scopes. I recall hearing discussion of tunneling with the Tract, which was the first I heard of it. Did you experience any on this model?

It wasn't tunneling with the 4.5-30 Tract but just more of a view of the scope body while looking through it. It didn't really effct FOV but just gave the feel of a narrower view with more of the scope being seen. Not sure about the 4-25 as I haven't had hands on one.

 

[4O6shootist]

Everyone, I was able to get a sweet deal on a 6-36 lrp s3, so early this week I canceled my order for the Tract. I will not be able to shed any compairosn between it and the zeiss 4-25X50, sorry.

 

[penguinofsleep]

It wasn't tunneling with the 4.5-30 Tract but just more of a view of the scope body while looking through it. It didn't really effct FOV but just gave the feel of a narrower view with more of the scope being seen. Not sure about the 4-25 as I haven't had hands on one.

Looks like once again the question is no longer relevant, but for one more data point:

I didn't have tunneling on the 4.5-30 Tract either, but yes, there was a tiny bit of a "narrow" feeling at some point - not FOV, not "tiny eye box", but just "something" with eye placement. Perhaps this due to how far my eye was from the scope or perhaps it's just because it's gray and easier for the eye to see? Again, it wasn't bad as a whole, coming from someone who is probably more sensitive to this than most.

With the Tract 4-25, I did get a very small amount of tunneling at a few small points in the mag range when I was actively looking for it, but when I just casually looked through it using it I didn't really notice.

 

[FuhQ]

Everyone, I was able to get a sweet deal on a 6-36 lrp s3, so early this week I canceled my order for the Tract. I will not be able to shed any compairosn between it and the zeiss 4-25X50, sorry.

You'll love the Zeiss. It's a damn-solid scope for the money.

 

[4O6shootist]

You'll love the Zeiss. It's a damn-solid scope for the money.

I like the turrets on my 4-25, and glass is good. The longer tube of the big brother should eliminate the narrowish depth of field. Hopefully the reticle grows on me.

 

[leendertp]

I found another one:

Element Nexus GEN2 4-25x50.

Couldn't find any other info on it, but there it is. I wonder if this is like the new LOW's Delta Stryker/Athlon Cronus formula.