Any of you Cowboy shooters out there... .38-40?

[sirhrmechanic]

There is a real dearth of reloading data for the .38-40 or .38WCF cartridge. And lots of 'Don't bother."

But I have a 1915 Colt SAA I just picked up for the express purpose of shooting, and I am trying to confirm a load I plan on using.

I have a ton of Unique powder, and as it dates back to the early 1900's, it would have been fine in an old wheelgun.

I also have a lot of .401 swaged 200 Gr. SWC's, which I think will make a nice plinking load.

The load data for the 180 and 187 lead bullets starts at 6.5gr Unique and max's out about 7.4gr. I've seen people saying they are running 9.0gr in rifles... but that seems way too high.

None of my reloading manuals have .38-40 with a 200 gr bullet, either. But thinking that with a 200gr bullet I want to run about 6.8 - 7.0 gr .of Unique.

Anyone have a good and tested load for Unique and a 200 gr lead in an SAA 1st Gen??

Thanks and cheers,

Sirhr

 

[eicas]

I looked thru some of my older manuals with no luck either. I did find this in my Lyman cast manual. Hopefully it will give you some guidance or at least confirmation on what you already are calculating.

I load for .44spl a bunch, and have been back and forth about getting an old Winchester in 32-20 or 38-40 “just because”. They are neat old guns. I read the post on your recent road trip and acquisition and my brain started toying with the idea of searching for an older shootable SAA like you found. That’s one of the few pistol action types I have never owned. Anyhow, keep posting stuff on it and help me spend money ok? Hope the below helps. Cheers.

 

[roostercogburn98]

My uncle collects and shoots old Colts. He is supposed to call me this afternoon to discuss a possible purchase of a SAA I might be doing. I will ask him what he has for load data.

I used to have a ton of 38WCF brass and loaded bullets I shot from an old lever gun from around the turn of the century. I will see if any of the stuff I have still has load data as well on it

 

[sirhrmechanic]

My uncle collects and shoots old Colts. He is supposed to call me this afternoon to discuss a possible purchase of a SAA I might be doing. I will ask him what he has for load data.

I used to have a ton of 38WCF brass and loaded bullets I shot from an old lever gun from around the turn of the century. I will see if any of the stuff I have still has load data as well on it

Thanks!

And looking for brass (I have some Starline) if you want to get rid of yours. I LOVE the 38-40 and the .32-20 calibers. I never owned a .32-20, but I just bet it is a sweet shooting little cartridge in an SAA.

Thanks, all! I'll be doing some load testing and ladder testing this weekend in the Colt.

I am thinking that about 6.8 grains Unique will be right on. But that's a hunch and based more on years of loading than anything I've found online or in a manual. Glad I am not the only one having trouble finding data!

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. I have bought 3 Colt SAA's as "shooters" over the past two years. One is now at the NRA museum after it turned out to have huge historical significance and I donated it to them. Ugliest gun I ever bought. Was "Sure" it was too ugly to have any value. Silly me. The other is a Bisley that turned out 'not' to have been a 'bad re-nickel with aftermarket ivories...' but one of only a handful of factory Nickel Ivory Bisley's ever made. Best $1200 Gunshow Table Finds Ever!!! I was SURE it was just a bad re-nickel. The downside... way too valuable to shoot. So FINALLY I got this .38-40 and can't wait to shoot it! It better not letter back to Patton or something....

 

[roostercogburn98]

Your welcome and I’ll see what brass I have left. I think I gave most of the 38WCF away to a buddy who shoots SASS but maybe some laying around. I have had only one 38-40 and a handful of 32-20s. I had two Marlins, one from 1895 or 6 and one from 1907 in each caliber and that both shot like a dream. I currently have a Bisley in 32-20 and a Thunderer in 38 Colt which I believe is a 38 short? I have a few other colts as well but they are late 30s and early 60’s, and one of the ever so debatable Colt Black Powder runs that collectors swear aren’t real Colts but Colt says “ well, they were licensed and authorized by us with our stamps and proofs.” kind of deal. The early 60 ones are a set of K code Frontier models which are nickel plated with wood grips. Both factory new unfired, one in 22LR and the other is a Buntline 22 mag.

I have some old reloading books back home in Arkansas and am waiting on my mother to answer me back if there is any data on Unique and 38 or 32 WCF as well.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Your welcome and I’ll see what brass I have left. I think I gave most of the 38WCF away to a buddy who shoots SASS but maybe some laying around. I have had only one 38-40 and a handful of 32-20s. I had two Marlins, one from 1895 or 6 and one from 1907 in each caliber and that both shot like a dream. I currently have a Bisley in 32-20 and a Thunderer in 38 Colt which I believe is a 38 short? I have a few other colts as well but they are late 30s and early 60’s, and one of the ever so debatable Colt Black Powder runs that collectors swear aren’t real Colts but Colt says “ well, they were licensed and authorized by us with our stamps and proofs.” kind of deal. The early 60 ones are a set of K code Frontier models which are nickel plated with wood grips. Both factory new unfired, one in 22LR and the other is a Buntline 22 mag.

I have some old reloading books back home in Arkansas and am waiting on my mother to answer me back if there is any data on Unique and 38 or 32 WCF as well.

Thanks!

And I have a couple of those Black Box Colt Black Powder guns from the late 1990's. One of my great regrets was not ordering one of each when I got the catalog. It would have cost $3,000 or so to buy one of every single gun in their 'updated' line. All Genuine Colt... And I didn't. I have a Dragoon and a Pocket model... both shoot great. And these days, just trying to buy a couple of them in box... could cost more than the entire set of 10 - 12 guns when they first offered them. Heck, not even any transfer fees!!! Ship right to home. DOHHHHHH!

Sirhr

 

[roostercogburn98]

Picked on up at a gun show in a trade early this year before life as we know it stopped. Not the black box version though.

 

[buffalowinter]

If you just want to shoot the gun , a simple solution is IMR "Trail Boss" powder. It is a smokeless powder, non-corrosive, but is loaded like black powder. You just fill the case, any case any caliber, and seat the bullet. Needless to say, this results in powder-puff loads, but it is a quick simple solution for odd-ball calibers or old guns that might not take high pressure smokeless loads.

 

[roostercogburn98]

So not for semi wad cutters exactly but a flat based blunt tipped bullet that might be close enough to start from. Hope this helps and will look for that brass tomorrow and let you know.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Awesome and thanks.

Thanks @buffalowinter I would try trailboss, but I have 20 lbs of Unique and it was original to some of these loads back in the day. At least in the early smokeless days. I’ll have to try some Trail boss, though. Next time I see a can, I’ll try it out. It’s very popular these days!

cheers, Sirhr

 

[Steel head]

38-40,,,the original 40 S&W.

 

[RTH1800]

I have 150 new 38/40 WXF Winchester brand cases. Also have 50-100 new Winchester brand 44/40 WCF cases that could be necked down. What bullets do you use? May have some as well as dies. Will need to look.
Thanks!
RTH

 

[RTH1800]

Ok, found no dies or bullets. Most have sold them. I do have the brass.

 

[RTH1800]

32/20 loaded up is an early .357 equivalent.

 

[Crosswind]

All I found

 

[sirhrmechanic]

So laddered up to 6.8... and that was just a bit hot. Thanks for the above newer data. I was shooting soft lead, not Jacketed. So no primer issues, but cases were a bit sticky.

6.6 was just sweet!

Folks weren't kidding when they said .38-40 was the original .40 SW. It is one hot tamale of a cartridge! Way more potent than .45LC. The extra barrel weight is nice!

Tomorrow I'll load up about 500 of them and have some fun plinking on Memorial Day.

Thanks for all the help! As always, SH is the best!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[roostercogburn98]

No luck on any brass I found 5 loaded rounds but I must have sent all my other brass to a buddy a while back. Sorry I couldn’t help there

 

[sirhrmechanic]

No luck on any brass I found 5 loaded rounds but I must have sent all my other brass to a buddy a while back. Sorry I couldn’t help there

No worries, pal! Your data helped and your offer was more than generous!

Thanks again!!!

Sirhr

 

[giumau1]

reliving this just to ask where I could fine 32-40 wcf brass. asking for a cowboy friend...

 

[roostercogburn98]

reliving this just to ask where I could fine 32-40 wcf brass. asking for a cowboy friend...

BayouBrass says they have 50 count reman packs in stock

 

[MK20]

Look for 38-40 and 44-40 and you can probably reform them.

 

[Modoc]

IIRC 32-40 is the father of the 32 Winchester Special and 30-30. He might be able to form it from Starline 38-55 Long brass.

 

[MK20]

Correction to my previous.

.32-40 cases can be formed from .38-55, .30-30 or .32 Special brass. According to the 26th Edition of the Hodgdon Data Manual a 170 grain .32 Special bullet can be driven to a MV of 1409 fps by 16.0 grains of H4895 powder.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

reliving this just to ask where I could fine 32-40 wcf brass. asking for a cowboy friend...

Starline should have them. Not cheap but some first rate brass!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Modoc]

Starline should have them. Not cheap but some first rate brass!

Cheers,

Sirhr

I didn’t see them earlier, but did see that they had 32 Winchester Special for back order.