Rifle Scopes Any sub $500 optics that will pass a box test?

[Cavitation]

I posted this in another forum but will post here for more info thanks guys.
I have been watching and reading all sorts of reviews on budget optics in the 3 to 500 range and some in the 1,000 range just for comparision. Are there any budget optics out there that will pass a box test The closest I have seen comes from a Athlon video but that was not really a good representation. Human error involved I believe. I wish they would do the tests with just grid adjustments to eliminate the human error. It seems few scopes from 1000 bucks down really do function as they should. I aw a Vortex PST, Mueller,Athllon,Millet and others all fail the box test. kinda sucks I would really like a scope that functions as advertised.
I really do not consider 3 to 500 dollars a budget scope like most. IIs it really that hard to make a reliable scope that tracks? For 4 or 500 bucks is not cheap imo.
So what optics will pass a box test?

 

[Bakwa]

Excellent question.
I'm not sure they're out there, but I'm subbed just in case I'm wrong.
Standing by....

 

[redneckbmxer24]

SWFA fixed power. They track dead nuts and are extremely reliable, but they're fixed power. They also don't have the greatest glass but as long as you stick to the 10x or 12x models they're more than serviceable and still good for sub $500 (even sub $1K). Unless you're willing to drop $2K+ then you're going to sacrifice something and the less you spend the more you're going to have to give up.

 

[fdkay]

I believe the Weaver grand slam tactical 3-10 does pretty well. SFP wire reticle.
The Falcon M18+ might be worth a look, they were the bees knees about 10 years ago as far a budget FFP scopes go. It is a 4.5-18 with some pretty good reticles.
The Bushnell fixed 10x also gets good reviews, it runs about 220 bucks. Folks used to put it on .50 cal rifles.

You have to remember, most scopes in the 300-500 dollar range are hunting scopes, you zero them then use holdovers.
I'm going to second the SWFA fixed power, the 12x is a dandy scope.
If you are okay with SFP and MOA/MOA, then this is really hard to beat:
https://www.amazon.com/Sightron-MOA-2-Reticle-Riflescope-Matte/dp/B01CINL78K

In the unlikely event that there is an issue, they do have excellent CS

 

[Cavitation]

This looks promising. i would kind of like a bit more magnification but ffp mil/mil and tracking thats pretty good from what the other options are out there. I think ill be looking at this one. I get my bonus next month so ill look around till then.

 

[supercorndogs]

Most any scope will pass a box test. Tracking accurately for 10 mils or so, that is different.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Have you read this review?

Athlon Argos BTR 6-24x50 and Athlon Talos BTR 4-14x44 Riflescopes

Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Rd
Old Bethpage NY 11804
516-217-1000
Please visit our website @ www.cameralandny.com

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Quit worrying about a box test, an get a tree ret an hold it all. Dialing is a time killer, over rated, an out dated, with the advent of good ret's

 

[Cavitation]

This looks like a much better review of the Athlon.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

This looks like a much better review of the Athlon.

It absolutely is a more professional review, however, sometimes a review by a fellow forum member is great to read. BTW, the guy who posted that originally over on 24hour, bhoges, also posted it here as he's a member here too

Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Rd
Old Bethpage NY 11804
516-217-1000
Please visit our website @ www.cameralandny.com

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Dialing is a time killer, over rated, an out dated, with the advent of good ret's

I strongly disagree and I think most will as well. Advanced tree reticles have been around a long damn time (Horus) and people have continued dialing. I do both and my favorite reticle by far is the Tremor 3 but I still don't hold beyond 600 yards unless the targets are very generous in size because that's the distance that I've found it much more accurate to dial elevation and hold wind.

All of the shooters I've seen holding everything seem to do a whole lot of missing at distance too. There's certainly applications that are beneficial to a tree reticle but IMO having an optic with tracking reliability is far more important.

 

[MarinePMI]

Ditto, dialing and hold over each have their place. Dialing is always preferred, time permitting. Where hold overs shine is when time is short. And the best of both, are hold over off sets. Dial to one target value, then hold off from that for second or third targets. Some even dial for the second target, and hold for the first and third. Having a scope that does both (track, and have a hold over reticle) is IMHO the best combination.

JMTCW...

 

[wareagle700]

Swfa.

 

[Birddog6424]

Even the H59 and other heavily detailed reticles will leave you holding in the empty spaces between subtensions. it makes it more difficult to aim small miss small. And a lot of these tree reticles have a LOT of empty space. I know some of these sure look cool on paper, but when you start using them, you realize in a hurry that 1.3 wind and 3.6 elevation leaves you in an empty spot between the lines that you try to line up top to bottom and side.

Turret twisting will always have a place...

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Dialing sucks for my/our style of shooting, we could care less about little groups at long as there are no different levels of dead. If they made a ret with the top of the tree in the top 1/3 of the glass that would be all I want/need. Perception is not reality, an the lighter the package the better. If you can't break an holed a 1 moa ret down to 1/4moa with your Mk 1 eyeball, dialing ain't going to help you.

 

[308pirate]

Dialing sucks for my/our style of shooting, we could care less about little groups at long as there are no different levels of dead. If they made a ret with the top of the tree in the top 1/3 of the glass that would be all I want/need. Perception is not reality, an the lighter the package the better. If you can't break an holed a 1 moa ret down to 1/4moa with your Mk 1 eyeball, dialing ain't going to help you.

You're right, everyone else is wrong.

Okee dokee

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

You're right, everyone else is wrong.

Okee dokee

I could care less about being internet right, the only thing I care about is training like I fight. If you guys want/like to dial, then do it I don't care but, when it's all on the line you will like everyone else revert to your lowest level of training. That is pure fact. It takes a long time for people to change their habits/ways some fail to do that before it hurts.

 

[spife7980]

Funny, I train like I want to be accurate, not to kill people.

Back to the subject of the thread and away from the chest puffing.

 

[fdkay]

I could care less about being internet right, the only thing I care about is training like I fight. If you guys want/like to dial, then do it I don't care but, when it's all on the line you will like everyone else revert to your lowest level of training. That is pure fact. It takes a long time for people to change their habits/ways some fail to do that before it hurts.

Dude, one time in band camp, I had to HALO from a C5 with my xylophone strapped to my thigh, just to get to my recital in time

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I could care less about being internet right, the only thing I care about is training like I fight. If you guys want/like to dial, then do it I don't care but, when it's all on the line you will like everyone else revert to your lowest level of training. That is pure fact. It takes a long time for people to change their habits/ways some fail to do that before it hurts.

Wait, is this barfcom?

99.99% of the people here are shooting paper and steel dude, seeing as your profile says you're retired I'd probably be willing to bet you're not shooting at anything that shoots back either.


The fact of the matter remains that 4.5mil E and 1.2mil W is the same whether you dial or hold and the advantage of dialing is staying on the main crosshair for finer holds instead of holding between brackets. There's a time and place for both but to say you don't need to dial anything is just fucking retarded. Even in a sniper role there's going to be applications where you need to refinement of dialing. I use both methods and I can tell you for a fact that holding is only faster sometimes. It's a lot slower when you're doing a lot of missing you wouldn't be if you were dialed out.

 

[MarinePMI]

Dude, one time in band camp, I had to HALO from a C5 with my xylophone strapped to my thigh, just to get to my recital in time

ROTFLMAO! Priceless...

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Wait, is this barfcom? 99.99% of the people here are shooting paper and steel dude, seeing as your profile says you're retired I'd probably be willing to bet you're not shooting at anything that shoots back either.

So you think being retired stops you from training an your saying training until the day you die is worthless, you keep believing that.

 

[spife7980]

Dialing sucks for my/our style of shooting, we could care less about little groups at long as there are no different levels of dead.

So you think being retired stops you from training an your saying training until the day you die is worthless, you keep believing that.

No, but dont lump the rest of us in with you and your prepper fantasies

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

No, but dont lump the rest of us in with you and your prepper fantasies

You really don't have a clue do you?

 

[spife7980]

You really don't have a clue do you?

No, my interference cap blocks the clue waves out

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I can tell that by the sub-forums you never post in.

 

[...]

I could care less about being internet right, the only thing I care about is training like I fight. If you guys want/like to dial, then do it I don't care but, when it's all on the line you will like everyone else revert to your lowest level of training. That is pure fact. It takes a long time for people to change their habits/ways some fail to do that before it hurts.

if youre shooting far enough that you need to hold over or dial....youre life is not "on the line"....

even if we were in a full on Red Dawn WOLVERINES!! scenario.....you are not going to be engaging in sniper duels at 1000 yds.......you are going to be shooting at someone 200yds away max, and then running away as soon as you are able.

i mean hell, i consider myself a prepper....and i love me some "sniper rifles"......but goodness, have some common sense.....if i need a gun to defend myself when my "life is on the line" is going to be a handgun.....or if im really in some shit, an AR15........but no one here is ever going to use a "sniper rifle" for self defense

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

no one here is ever going to use a "sniper rifle" for self defense

That's correct they primarily offensive, but who knows for a fact what they will use, or how many targets they will have when the time comes? Caliber can trump reach to a point, under stress but,...We also do a lot of subsonic shooting where the target is but 3-500 yds away an you don't have time to dial, an some events your not allowed to knob anything past the event start, high-speed or otherwise.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Holy fuck has this gone full retard.

Seriously dude, you're adding less than jack fucking shit to this topic. The guy asked about a sub $500 optic and you've flown out of your rocker about people hunting. I'm not even aware of a sub $500 optic that has a tree reticle, so seriously, what the fuck?

 

[7WSMShooter]

This thread took a wrong turn. Train like you're going to shoot,
whether it be dialing or holding. And having a scope that will allow you to do both is the way to go. Haven't messed with the
SS scopes as more affordable options myself but have used the weaver tactical 3-15 and 2-10 FFP scopes and they have been tracking well. Reticles aren't the best nor is the glass in this price range but what is. My problem is that I cant
afford a Minox MP5 or TT 5-25 on every rifle I own. But my best advise would be to make compromises on other things
than your glass. There is a wealth of knowledge here on this site and do a lot of research. Find a match or range in your AO where some of these guys might be at and go check some of this gear out. There are lots of great guys on this site that would be more than willing to help you out. And you're also
gonna get everybody's opinion to what is the best scope/reticle/magnification range for this price range etc ,But it comes down to you doing the research and pulling the trigger
on the purchase. You can upgrade your Remington 700 or Tikka or whatever rifle you're shooting, but to upgrade the glass is to pull it off and replace it. Research and buy the best
you can possible afford so you don't learn the same lesson so many of us have. You get what you pay for. Hope this helps.

 

[MarinePMI]

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

The guy asked about a sub $500 optic and you've flown out of your rocker about people hunting. I'm not even aware of a sub $500 optic that has a tree reticle, so seriously, what the fuck?

Really, your so full of shit? In fact ASM1 was right about you long ago! Leupold 2.5x8x36 VX3i $ 334.00- 339.00 to your door from gaybay, add 160 bucks for the impact 32 tree ret. from Leupold $499.00

 

[steve123]

OP, I think what you'll find is that some inexpensive scopes will track and some will not, not necessarily by brand, but on a individual unit basis. It's the same thing going into the medium priced scopes, even some expensive scopes don't track perfectly.

What to do? Check the tracking yourself and if it's off use the correction offset on your ballistic calculator, problem solved. Or send the scope back til you get one that does track.

Athlon scopes typically track very close and have great tree reticles, some fall into your budget. My little Talos BTR 4-14 affords me 1st round hits out to 1122Y and it's only $299, or less if you shop around. Done some winning with the Argos BTR as well.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Really, your so full of shit? In fact ASM1 was right about you long ago!

What?

Leupold 2.5x8x36 VX3i $ 334.00- 339.00 to your door from gaybay, add 160 bucks for the impact 32 tree ret. from Leupold $499.00

So you're suggesting rocking some elmer fudd 2.5-8 hunting scope for long range?


Backpeddling game 100

 

[BCP]

I posted this in another forum but will post here for more info thanks guys.
I have been watching and reading all sorts of reviews on budget optics in the 3 to 500 range and some in the 1,000 range just for comparision. Are there any budget optics out there that will pass a box test The closest I have seen comes from a Athlon video but that was not really a good representation. Human error involved I believe. I wish they would do the tests with just grid adjustments to eliminate the human error. It seems few scopes from 1000 bucks down really do function as they should. I aw a Vortex PST, Mueller,Athllon,Millet and others all fail the box test. kinda sucks I would really like a scope that functions as advertised.
I really do not consider 3 to 500 dollars a budget scope like most. IIs it really that hard to make a reliable scope that tracks? For 4 or 500 bucks is not cheap imo.
So what optics will pass a box test?

Perhaps an SWFA?

TBH it is hard to find quality for cheap. I get what you are saying, with technology and production being what it is I thought that the price would be going down but it seems a lot of "tactical" and "target" scopes are going in the other direction.

 

[MarinePMI]

Yeah, SWFA are pretty hard to beat, and they do track well (plus lifetime no fault guarantee).

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

So you're suggesting rocking some elmer fudd 2.5-8 hunting scope for long range?

If you have issues using that scope at long maybe you should be looking inward for the issue. I've seen many a time 8x was over kill at many LR matches in the south, but then again some shoot an some just talk about it. Can you quarter a moa target with it no you can't but, you can damn sure do a navy hold an do almost as well with it as many a higher power scope. Then again not knowing how to use what you have is a std in the world with those of your gen. It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

If you have issues using that scope at long maybe you should be looking inward for the issue. I've seen many a time 8x was over kill at many LR matches in the south, but then again some shoot an some just talk about it. Can you quarter a moa target with it no you can't but, you can damn sure do a navy hold an do almost as well with it as many a higher power scope. Then again not knowing how to use what you have is a std in the world with those of your gen. It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools.

Perhaps you should educate all of the top PRS shooters who all running 20X+ optics and most average 15x-20x mag for stages. Apparently everyone is doing it wrong. Could have more FOV and a lighter more compact optic to boot.

Would I be a gamer for running a 2.5-8 Leupy at the next comp or an idiot?

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Perhaps you should educate all of the top PRS shooters who all running 20X+ optics and most average 15x-20x mag for stages. Apparently everyone is doing it wrong. Could have more FOV and a lighter more compact optic to boot.

Would I be a gamer for running a 2.5-8 Leupy at the next comp or an idiot?

I could care less what prs is running or doing, that's a money making game for everyone involved, except for most of the shooter's. You do as you wish, but if the day ever comes where the target is not pointed out to you, you have a train up day, or the target shoots back, I hope your doing as you have eluded to in this thread.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools.

Its a poor crafstman that uses the wrong tool for the job and doesn't invest in precision instruments to get precise results.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I could care less what prs is running or doing, that's a money making game for everyone involved, except for most of the shooter's.

What? Nobody is rolling up to PRS matches in Rollys or Bentleys and those who are ballers were ballers before they started shooting PRS. Nobody I'm aware of is getting rich doing it, they do it because they enjoy it. This is coming from someone who's an unsponsored shooter who has met some of those who run PRS. Not sure how we go here on a sub $500 optic thread, but ok.

You do as you wish, but if the day ever comes where the target is not pointed out to you, you have a train up day, or the target shoots back, I hope your doing as you have eluded to in this thread.

My first reply to you said that my favorite reticle is Tremor 3 and I run it both ways... But my tin foil hasn't been fitting too well as of late so I'm not worried about a two way range.

 

[koshkin]

To address the original question: SWFA SS Classic fixed power scopes track superbly. I have seen a bunch of these and they have all tracked well. They are kinda known for that. The variable track well also, but they are usually more than $500, unless you find a used one.

Honestly, I have been reviewing riflescopes for a lot of years now and have maintained a list of scopes I recommend for almost as long. The single most often recommended scope in that list is SWFA SS 3-9x42. It does not look all that special on paper, so it is distinctly unpopular with mall ninjas. However, it is an exceedingly nice design when you actually use it: it stays zeroed, adjusts true and offers excellent optics for the money.

Under $600:
http://opticsthoughts.com/?page_id=91

Under $300:
http://opticsthoughts.com/?page_id=86

The important thing to note with these SWFA scopes is that not only do they track true, they are also designed with turret twisting in mind, so the turrets are easy to grab and there is plenty of adjustment range.

Historically, SIghtron SII and SIIB scopes have tracked very well, but it has been some years since I have checked it. A friend of mine just got a Sig Whiskey3 3-9x50, so I will check the tracking on it.

Hawke Sidewinder 30 4.5-14x42 tracked consistently based on the two I have tested.

ILya

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Its a poor crafstman that uses the wrong tool for the job and doesn't invest in precision instruments to get precise results.

I don't have a problem using it, or the 22X USO or other MK 4's in either 10X or 20X I own. It's a poor craftsman that thinks he has to have X to get Y job done, which is the bulk of shooters today! That little scope see's way more use than all the others, why because it's lite, wide field of view, perfect holds to 32moa on 8X, 64 on 4X, almost 96 on 2.5 if you include the hold above cross hair.

 

[ultrarunner7]

Gunfighter. I've spent a lot of time on two way shooting ranges. The fact of the matter is, you should be able to do both...sometimes even combining them. Running snipe guns, there is no one rifle/setup to solve all problems. I ran a gasser with an H59 and it was for quickly owning 800m and in(urban snipe)and Helo shooting. Next, were bolters which I can guarantee, if you're shooting 2000+ meters(which is the majority of what's being done in a particular theater)you must dial...at times even dialing everything, as well as using some other means to add to your reticle(that's another discussion). Also having to balance power adjustment for ELR bc you're dialed out and need another 25-30 mils of holding bc that's whatcha got....but you lose magnification you may need for that distance. I've seen SOTIC guys for years turn their brains off to dialing...bc everything was "hold centric" built around the HORUS. They then had no real skills with a 338LM in their hands. Mainly understanding ballistics as well as reading wind at that range. If I have time to dial, I dial...it's always better. If there are 50 savs rushing your house and you're it with the gasser...it's time to 12" it. Thanks Todd H


Scope: Buy once cry once....or an SWFA

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

ultrarunner 7

First thanks for your service,

I agree with both, for ELR but, as the OP was wanting to stay under $500.00 an in that world nothing tracks as true as a good ret you know. If one can hold the ctr X true, they can hold anywhere in a good tree ret just as well, once they re-train their mind. With the advent of time constraints in many comps(an other venues) these days the time wasted in dialing should be used in ranging or position building, assuming there is no preview/train up of the course prior. The other thing that pops up is some of the sub only matches, will stop you from dialing at some stage and your required to finish the match w/o being able to use the knobs at all. Now you have 450yds + dialed in, an your next target is at 65 yds, this is where a known zero an holding it all is required. There is no single right answer for every target, we all know that but I assumed a $500.00 scope was not going on a ELR stick. The last thing I assumed was he is new to this type/style of shooting, an there are not many scopes in that price range were a new shooter will not get lost in rev count, I've seen that time an time again even with very experienced shooters under a time clock. How we got to this point is easy to see once everything is reread an taken from all the different points of view an experience.

 

[Bakwa]

Yeah, I forgot about the SWFA fixed scopes. They're under $500 and probably track as well as most $1k scopes. Glass is OK as well at ~10x.

 

[Cavitation]

Ultrarunner7 Thank you for your service and everyone else here that has served. Food for though i guess.

The way I have shot anything long distance (very little) I have always dialed in best I could, shoot one, adjust from there with hold.
Has worked for me in the past. Granted that was with an M16A2 at 600meters and peepsights in Arkansas in my late 20s before my eyes went to shit.

I will research the SWFA line a bit more Thank you all.

AL

 

[Gohring65]

The only 500$ scope I’m considering right now is the Weaver Tactical 3-15 at Natchez for $499. It’s a standard mildot but it’s all that is really needed.

 

[WB300]

Thank you ILya for the links to your research. I've been looking for a sub $600 3-9-ish lighter weight scope for hunting 250 yards and in on my son's rifle. Although I don't plan on fidget spinning the turrets (zero at 200 and hold out to 250), i still need to make turret adjustments to zero the scope and that's where the frustrations come in. All my Zeiss and Leupolds need to be "walked in" to zero. It wastes time and ammo.

As long as I'm dreaming... anyone make a 2-4 low end to 9-12 high end variable (no parallax adj) with glass like Meopta, reliability of SWFA, and light weight like Leupold (under 13 oz) for under $600?

OP, thank you for starting this thread.

 

[koshkin]

Thank you ILya for the links to your research. I've been looking for a sub $600 3-9-ish lighter weight scope for hunting 250 yards and in on my son's rifle. Although I don't plan on fidget spinning the turrets (zero at 200 and hold out to 250), i still need to make turret adjustments to zero the scope and that's where the frustrations come in. All my Zeiss and Leupolds need to be "walked in" to zero. It wastes time and ammo.

As long as I'm dreaming... anyone make a 2-4 low end to 9-12 high end variable (no parallax adj) with glass like Meopta, reliability of SWFA, and light weight like Leupold (under 13 oz) for under $600?

OP, thank you for starting this thread.

Try Vortex Razor HD LH 2-10x40. It is not as light as the Leupold and the glass has a different feel than Meopta, but it is easily as good as the MeoPro in terms of image quality. In terms of resolution, it might be a little better. It is however easier to get behind owing to very forgiving eye relief. I think SWFA has the version with the G4 BDC reticle for sale right now for under $600 (which is the reticle I prefer anyway).

I have all three of the Razor HD LH scope and have had them since they came out. The tracking for all three is absolutely spot on, so if you want to spin turrets you can and Kenton makes custom turrets for it.

Sighting in these scopes involves firing two group: fire a group, figure out how much you need to adjust, make the adjustment, fire another group. Which is really how it is supposed to be.

With Leupold, all the newer ones I have seen were good (like the Vortex VX-6HD 3-18x44), but their older designs often need settling after adjustment.

ILya