Anyone knowledgeable on FFL manufacturers in these parts?

[fastline]

So....maybe this has been discussed here before but we are primarily a CNC machine shop/engineering group, and have at least considered an FFL. I think we are a good fit for this industry but it seems that between ALL the red tape, FAET taxes, and saturated markets, this may be a less that exciting adventure. I think all us manufactures have heard, "build me this, make me a suppressor, I need this trinket", but the reality is there is a LOT of time and risk. I see fully machined AR lowers below $100, and I know what the material and machining costs would look like and I mostly say, OMG, you would need to push the fastest machines to the max to even get anywhere.

But I guess beyond my little rant there, has anyone had experience dealing with the ATF on visits and such? If this is like dealing with the USDOT or OSHA, I don't want to touch it. Those dudes just look for excuses to write fines. I am also curious about the local levels, such as city/county, or even state levels.

I know we considered brewing beer years back as we love doing it, but realized the government has all but made it impossible to make real money without insane financial risk.

We also considered certain things that do not require an FFL, but I think China has been all over this market. At some point, we just cannot justify wearing very expensive machines out over chump change! Change my mind guys!

 

[Not a Clue]

I'm sure others will chime in, but as a FFL (not a manufacturer or dealer), we get the occasional visit from the ATF. Never any trouble or anything remotely like OSHA. All they want to do is see your paper trail. If you say you have something, they want to see that it's there. Obviously the more you do, the more paper there is for them to look at. I've seen them stay for hours or minutes. Just depends on the mood of the person, but in the end, they are just verifying that you are doing what you are supposed to be doing.

 

[fastline]

So ATF visits are pretty much a guarantee? See, that is the other part of the equation that is frustrating. Factoring in hours and potential issues over some paperwork. We also make some military components and all though we take our security way more serious than we have to because we piss red/white/blue, we have never had a visit from any official. Unclassified parts of course.

I have also heard that that once the ATF realizes your allegiance to the USA, and your name is not Mohamad, there is a little relief.

 

[AngryKoala]

You guys think OSHA is bad, you should try an FDA audit.

 

[CoryT]

Currently the standard is to get an audit once a year. They will go though the bound book and 4473's, plus any other forms filed (form 2's, etc.). They will want to see every firearm in inventory and match it to the book entry. That's the most time consuming part if you have very much in stock. The inspectors have been pretty pleasant in my experience, fixing minor errors and being helpful rather than ball-busting. I'm sure there may be inspectors who are a PITA, but I've personally never run into one. That's over the course of 30 years and two states, an an NFA dealer and manufacturer. For me, ATF has never been a problem.

 

[Not a Clue]

So ATF visits are pretty much a guarantee?

Absolutely. Unannounced as well. Can be 2 months or, like Cory said, 1 year. It's completely up to them and entering into the agreement, you agree to give them access. You don't have to, when they show up, you can ask them to reschedule if it's a bad time for you (it happens), but for the most part, if you are part of the system, then you will get visited.

The agents I've dealt with have said "We're just here to make sure you aren't dealing in large volumes of illegal items". They didn't really seem to care if you made a clerical error. They told me that there are people making and selling guns off the books and that's who really concerns them, so places doing stuff by the book aren't really their target for enforcement.

That's all just my dealing with them.