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Rifle Scopes Anyone Spent Time Behind an Apex Rival Yet?
- Thread starter Stra8shot
- Start date
Not enough time but did get to play around with one on a fellow competitors 22 for just a few minutes. It was nice. Wondering where to buy and what street price will be. Don’t know why I didn’t ask the guy but now I’m wishing I would have at least gathered some intel on the thing.
I know a guy who's sponsored by them and got to take a peek though his. Turrets are great, reticle is good, definitely needs a throw lever, especially in the cold. Seems great. Find me a bad scope for more than $1800.
Problem with them that I see so far, without ever even handling one, is that the only people I know with one are those on their shooting team. Which means the opinions of people with them are completely useless. And they have assembled quite the “shooting team” before most have even seen one. Sorry but I will never value the opinion of a sponsored shooter (not trying to offend, but whether you admit it or not, their opinion is skewed).
Would love to know the opinion of actual customers who’ve bought one and got some time behind it.
The company does seem to be out at matches and getting shooter wants and feedback (so I’ve heard), so that’s a good sign. Would be very curious to handle one and see what the hype is all about.
Would love to know the opinion of actual customers who’ve bought one and got some time behind it.
The company does seem to be out at matches and getting shooter wants and feedback (so I’ve heard), so that’s a good sign. Would be very curious to handle one and see what the hype is all about.
I'm happy with mine but it's also my most expensive scope. It's better than my Bushnell DMR II and Ares ETR (better glass, better turrets and a clean reticle). I also enjoy the large zoom range and the generous eyebox.
I know the scope is made by JOL in Japan.
Tracking is spot on so far.
I know the scope is made by JOL in Japan.
Tracking is spot on so far.
Received my optic yesterday, and got it mounted in my Era Tac adjustable mount.
While it may not matter to everyone, their packaging overall is absolutely fantastic, both from a visual perspective and execution The scope itself is well protected, all of the individual components i.e. sunshade, battery, allen key etc. are all individually bagged and placed such that nothing could bounce around or cause damage during shipping. It came with a nice a sticker and lens cloth as well, which was a nice touch.
The manual is very well laid out, and not overloaded with tons of words. It clearly states what you need to know about the optic, and not a ton more, which I greatly appreciate.
While the standard flip covers that come with the scope are great, and perfectly serviceable, I went ahead and got the Tenebraex objective and eye piece caps as well. Anyone who's used them will generally agree they are one of, if not the best scope caps/covers you can get. I'm very happy I got them at the same time.
Onto the scope. The overall execution of the optic is outstanding. I work in the industry, primarily as a gunsmith, and as such I tend to pay very close attention to the details. I could not find a single thing that visually stood out as being off, or otherwise incorrect. All of the MIL hashmarks on both the windage and elevation turrets lined up perfectly with the index arrow on the turret housing - I have had other optics in this approx price range with slight misalignment of the hash marks relative to the index arrow and while it's not the end of the world, it does matter if you're competing and you want to confirm your turret is exactly where you turned it to.
As for the turrets, the clicks are audible, and very well pronounced. Not so much that it feels like you need to crank on the turret to adjust it, but each click feels nice and sharp, and leaves no question about how many clicks you've move the turret. Not sure what else to say, but the turrets are fantastic.
I have yet to zero the optic on my rifle, but setting the zero stop appears to be extremely straight forward. The optic did come out of the box mechanically zeroed in the middle of both the elevation and windage.
The diopter, like on most optics in this price range is nice and fast to adjust - enough tension that it wont move out of position, but easily adjusted for your eye.
Having the integrated throw lever is a really nice touch, and there is an included small wedge to fill the gap in the power adjustment ring if you choose to remove the throw lever. I truthfully thought it was a little gimmicky that the throw lever had holes through it to view your elevation turret, but once I got the scope mounted on a rifle, they did work as advertised, and you could look directly "through" the throw lever and still see your elevation turret numbers/index point. Again, this was a nice little touch. I will say, due to the range of magnification, the throw lever at minimum mag (4x) or at maximum mag (32 x), may collide with your bolt handle depending on if your gun is left or right handed, and how low the scope is mounted. I don't particularly consider this a failure of the design, insofar that the adjustment ring needs to rotate a sizeable mount left and right to swing through the complete magnification range, but it is worth noting. I also suspect this might be more common on 2 lug actions than short throw actions with a 3 lug design.
The CLR reticle is very well done. I have primarily used the JVCR reticle from USO, and some additional time behind the Horus H59 reticle. I haven no issues with the Horus reticles, but the CLR, much like the JVCR reticle are not too cluttered while having enough useable information to make corrections while shooting. I almost never dial for wind, and I suspect the CLR reticle is going to be equally perfect in that regard.
I wont comment on my perceptions of the optical clarity as of yet because I've only had a chance to mess around with the scope at night inside, but thus far I don't foresee having any concerns when it comes to how bright and clear this optic is.
Hope my above info helps others out if they've been looking at the Apex Rival (or their other new products released @ ShotShow). I'm extremely happy with the scope overall, and I think in this price bracket Apex has done an outstanding job of putting all the features in the scope you could want, while still being fairly priced.
While it may not matter to everyone, their packaging overall is absolutely fantastic, both from a visual perspective and execution The scope itself is well protected, all of the individual components i.e. sunshade, battery, allen key etc. are all individually bagged and placed such that nothing could bounce around or cause damage during shipping. It came with a nice a sticker and lens cloth as well, which was a nice touch.
The manual is very well laid out, and not overloaded with tons of words. It clearly states what you need to know about the optic, and not a ton more, which I greatly appreciate.
While the standard flip covers that come with the scope are great, and perfectly serviceable, I went ahead and got the Tenebraex objective and eye piece caps as well. Anyone who's used them will generally agree they are one of, if not the best scope caps/covers you can get. I'm very happy I got them at the same time.
Onto the scope. The overall execution of the optic is outstanding. I work in the industry, primarily as a gunsmith, and as such I tend to pay very close attention to the details. I could not find a single thing that visually stood out as being off, or otherwise incorrect. All of the MIL hashmarks on both the windage and elevation turrets lined up perfectly with the index arrow on the turret housing - I have had other optics in this approx price range with slight misalignment of the hash marks relative to the index arrow and while it's not the end of the world, it does matter if you're competing and you want to confirm your turret is exactly where you turned it to.
As for the turrets, the clicks are audible, and very well pronounced. Not so much that it feels like you need to crank on the turret to adjust it, but each click feels nice and sharp, and leaves no question about how many clicks you've move the turret. Not sure what else to say, but the turrets are fantastic.
I have yet to zero the optic on my rifle, but setting the zero stop appears to be extremely straight forward. The optic did come out of the box mechanically zeroed in the middle of both the elevation and windage.
The diopter, like on most optics in this price range is nice and fast to adjust - enough tension that it wont move out of position, but easily adjusted for your eye.
Having the integrated throw lever is a really nice touch, and there is an included small wedge to fill the gap in the power adjustment ring if you choose to remove the throw lever. I truthfully thought it was a little gimmicky that the throw lever had holes through it to view your elevation turret, but once I got the scope mounted on a rifle, they did work as advertised, and you could look directly "through" the throw lever and still see your elevation turret numbers/index point. Again, this was a nice little touch. I will say, due to the range of magnification, the throw lever at minimum mag (4x) or at maximum mag (32 x), may collide with your bolt handle depending on if your gun is left or right handed, and how low the scope is mounted. I don't particularly consider this a failure of the design, insofar that the adjustment ring needs to rotate a sizeable mount left and right to swing through the complete magnification range, but it is worth noting. I also suspect this might be more common on 2 lug actions than short throw actions with a 3 lug design.
The CLR reticle is very well done. I have primarily used the JVCR reticle from USO, and some additional time behind the Horus H59 reticle. I haven no issues with the Horus reticles, but the CLR, much like the JVCR reticle are not too cluttered while having enough useable information to make corrections while shooting. I almost never dial for wind, and I suspect the CLR reticle is going to be equally perfect in that regard.
I wont comment on my perceptions of the optical clarity as of yet because I've only had a chance to mess around with the scope at night inside, but thus far I don't foresee having any concerns when it comes to how bright and clear this optic is.
Hope my above info helps others out if they've been looking at the Apex Rival (or their other new products released @ ShotShow). I'm extremely happy with the scope overall, and I think in this price bracket Apex has done an outstanding job of putting all the features in the scope you could want, while still being fairly priced.
I believe that for the folks that they selected for their shooting team, they gave them an opportunity to exit out of deal within 30 days of receiving the optic.
Probably a smart idea, because you probably don't want people repping your brand if they don't love it.
We need less "Instagram" influencers in this sport, so that's probably the right way to go.
Buy the Blackhound version of this scope for half the price next time they have a 45% off or 55% off sale for around $900.00. Maybe next sale might be even cheaper. Trend was January 2023 45% off then May 55% off. Riton owns Blackhound and they are also known to sell for half price or less like their Riton X7 Conquer version of this scope for $649.99. All of them are made at Japan Optical JOL.
A reviewer had the Blackhound version and Apex Rival at the same time and swore they were identical scopes.
I'd personally feel really sick after knowing how insanely marked up they really are while the other brand labels of this same scope sells them for less than half the price.
The $1979.00 Riton X7 Conquer version ($649.99 last recent sale at Scopelist and EuroOptic) has already proven to be unreliable.
A reviewer had the Blackhound version and Apex Rival at the same time and swore they were identical scopes.
I'd personally feel really sick after knowing how insanely marked up they really are while the other brand labels of this same scope sells them for less than half the price.
The $1979.00 Riton X7 Conquer version ($649.99 last recent sale at Scopelist and EuroOptic) has already proven to be unreliable.
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You might want to do a little more research before trusting an anonymous reviewer.
Yup the Japan JOL made Riton X7 Conquer 4-32x56 version (that brand's top of the line $1979.00 flagship) was indeed recently on sale for $649.99 at EuroOptic and Scopelist. They show out of stock and backorder ok.
The reviewer was Epic Arms formerly known as Affordable Optics and rifle reviews who indeed had both the Apex Rival and Blackhound branded version 4-32x56 scopes at the same time and swore they were literally identical looking scopes during the time he had both tested side by side. The only slight difference is the turret travel per revolution and the Blackhound labeled version goes on sale for 45% to 55% off based on recent months sales. The Apex Rival and Blackhound version are relatively new but the Riton X7 Conquer version has already been known to be unreliable and there's several members on this Hide forum that can attest to it's crappiness as well.
The reviewer isn't anonymous. He goes by Epic Arms formerly known as Affordable Optics and rifle reviews. He had both the Apex Rival and Blackhound 4-32x56 version at the same time and swore they were literally identical.
You should order the Blackhound version next time it goes on half price sale and also buy the Apex Rival at the same time since it seems as though they have a money back guarantee and see for yourself if they're the same scope just for kicks that's what I'd do if I were in the market for a JOL made scope which I refuse to buy (not even the $649.99 Riton X7 Conquer version) due to reliability concerns and prefer LOW manufactured scopes. I'd rather buy more Chinese made Athlon Ares BTR Gen 2 4.5-27x50s for $565.49 from Walmart online instead of a JOL made scope at any price. I already own a Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 then bought my first Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50 and after comparing the Athlon to the NX8, I bought two more Ares BTRs instead of another NF NX8 if that alone says anything and I paid way more than the current $565.49 for each of them.
The issue there is that dude is bought and paid for. His reviews aren’t 100% honest and he’s not shooter. He’s just trying to make money and get free shit. He has a pretty crappy name in Canada from the suppliers and dealers for
Some of the stuff he’s pulled. Look at his list of the best prs scopes and you tell me how much you trust his review.
To everyone else's point, Alex is not a reputable source of any information, especially for higher-end anything (scopes, rifles, etc.). The guy is literally a laughing stock in the PRS crowd in Canada. He shot one match for the first time ever (this year), and had no idea about anything. Plus, he's all about making money, so much so that he's the Discovery Optics "dealer" in Canada now, he imports them and sells on his website. He makes money off Blackhound with his affiliate code, so he pushes them and Discovery really hard, like stupid hard.
As for JOL, the Rival was made years after the X7 and the Blackhound. Just because they came out of the same factory doesn't mean that they're the same scope, or have the same internals. One famous and very reputable optics reviewer / expert said that "this is the best JOL-manufactured scope he'd seen" while at SHOT, and that was the pre-production model in 2022.
You can have a Toyota Tercel and an Infinity Q60 come out of the same factory in Japan, but they're not the same vehicle and don't have the same internals, and the quality will be substantially different. Just saying.
As for JOL, the Rival was made years after the X7 and the Blackhound. Just because they came out of the same factory doesn't mean that they're the same scope, or have the same internals. One famous and very reputable optics reviewer / expert said that "this is the best JOL-manufactured scope he'd seen" while at SHOT, and that was the pre-production model in 2022.
You can have a Toyota Tercel and an Infinity Q60 come out of the same factory in Japan, but they're not the same vehicle and don't have the same internals, and the quality will be substantially different. Just saying.
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I've got an Apex Rival and I really like it. Glass is as good or better than my Cronus gen 2.
The Reticle is simple and easy to use.
Throw Lever and sunshade included is great, I like to add those options.
Diopter is very easy to get dialed in.
eyebox is forgiving.
Couple little things for me I wish the indicator mark for turret was just a line instead of a triangle. would make turrets easier to read.
The second rev indicator starts to come up 0.5 mil early.
The clicks are good but not amazing could be more definitive, if you are going slow they are very good but if you crank on it fast is when they feel weird. I like click on the Cronus gen 2 better.
I believe most of my qualms would be rectified by 10 mil/rev turrets which they said they should be releasing later this year.
The Reticle is simple and easy to use.
Throw Lever and sunshade included is great, I like to add those options.
Diopter is very easy to get dialed in.
eyebox is forgiving.
Couple little things for me I wish the indicator mark for turret was just a line instead of a triangle. would make turrets easier to read.
The second rev indicator starts to come up 0.5 mil early.
The clicks are good but not amazing could be more definitive, if you are going slow they are very good but if you crank on it fast is when they feel weird. I like click on the Cronus gen 2 better.
I believe most of my qualms would be rectified by 10 mil/rev turrets which they said they should be releasing later this year.
Ya that's about the best I can do and I did pay for it. I'm not into video editing. I'd say you won't be disappointed, personally I'd wait for the 10 Mil version which I will likely buy when it comes out.
About the clicks I will say I went and played with some of my cheaper scopes that I hadn't touched in a while, Athlon Ares and Helos and the Apex puts them to shame.
It's been a while that someone posted here about the Rival. So I thought i share my experience.
Yesterday i decided to take my scopes off and do a little testing and comparison.
Specimens are
Apex RivalX 4-32x56
Vortex Razor Gen2 4.5-27x56
Tract Toric 4-25x50 ( I know it is not in the same mag and objective bracket but i wanted to see how it performed.)
All scopes in MIL and set to 15 magnification because that's where am most of the time when i shoot. Also turrets set to the middle of adjustment range to keep it fair as possible.
We tested at 100yards and over a mile on my Fat Boy Tripod with an Improvised board.
Sample size of one each, so don't take everything to serious here.
Not brand loyal to anyone otherwise i would not have three different scopes from three different brands!
You make a good product " I am in" you make a bad product " I am out".
Test took about 4 hours with help of my Wifey, neighbour and his son which is a ERT team member of police in Canada. ( ERT stands for Emergency Response Team of the RCMP here in Canada) Similar to SWAT teams in the states i guess. So i am located in Canada.
What we tested was Focus, Parallax, Field of view, Edge to edge clarity, colors, distortion, low light performance, reticle
In total 4 people, 2 have optics and firearms experience and 2 doesn't just to see what there eye is telling us.
Focus: was easy to adjust and set on all three off them. Smooth turning and stays put so it won't move on you.
Parallax: The Apex Rival was very easy to adjust. It was "in"or "out" that's it. I like that. Best out of the three.
Vortex Razor was a little more fine tuning required till it was just right. Good though
Tract Toric was a little finicky and needed more attention on the dial to get it right. That costs more time on a PRS stage if you have to mess around with it.
Field of view was great on all of them. The Tract should have more when you look at the specs on there website but i was about the same with the other ones. No big difference there at least not much of a difference to our eyes.
Optical performance is probably what most guys are interest in when comparing scopes and i can tell you right out of the bat that the Toric even with the smaller objective lens of 50mm was better performing than the other two. We were all surprised that it performed better during the day in different light conditions and at low light towards the end of the day. The Schott Glass really gathered some freaking light in there. WOW that's bright!
Just in general the clarity, brightness, colours, edge to edge image was the best with the Tract.
Second was the Apex Rival. Excellent during the day but the edges were not clear and crisp. Colours and Image was still good and close to the Tract.
The Vortex is in my arsenal the longest and you can tell that the optical design is older compared to the other two.
The image was clear to all of us but it was slightly darker overall compared to the other two. We all agreed on that.
I have the Vortex for about 4-5 years now and it was not ones at the warranty department.
Reliability is top
We did our best to line up behind the scopes as good and consistent as possible but it gets tiring for the eyes after a while.
Just wanted to remind that we are nitpicking here on the optics, All three are capable of spotting and hitting steel at distance.
The Apex actually has a warranty claim as i am writing this. The zero stop/rev indicator is not working as intended.
After I passed the first revolution, the rev. indicator pops up and as you turn further it falls back down in place and prevents me from turning back to zero. Anyone else have this issue?
Imagine that happens during a match
After talking to Apex, they are sending me a new Elevation Turret Cap. I hope this resolves the issue but leaves a big question mark about quality and long term reliability.
My personal preference from each optic:
I like the Apex CLR reticle the best with the Tract ELR right after and the Vortex EBR-7C last. You make your own choice.
Mag range indication is also best on the Apex at least for me, because it is tilted on an angle and you can see it better behind the rifle.
Included throw lever is great as well. I wish Vortex and Tract would do that too.
The best turrets are the Tract, hard zero stop like a brick wall,tactile clicks, smooth turning turrets, nice big numbers,
Locking Elevation and Windage turrets are effortless to operate. Just taller turrets then all others if that's a con.
The Apex Rival is missing the locking function. I wish they would have it at least on the windage turret.
Nice feeling turrets though and short.
Vortex Razor Locking turrets is a little harder to disengage and engage and the clicks are LOUD and takes a little more effort to turn.
Nothing bad just personal preference.
Overall we picked the Tract over the other two. Fit and finish is better than the other two, Controls are just butter smooth and effortless!
If I could, I would implement a few changes to the Tract like shorter turrets, Mag range indication tilt up, the CLR reticle, Parallax adjustment of the Apex Rival, Just wishful thinking
Maybe Tract is listening! It would be a Hybrid between the Tract and the Apex.
I hope you guys like my little write up and test.
Please correct me if something is wrong and keep the comments positive and criticism respectful.
Thank you.
Yesterday i decided to take my scopes off and do a little testing and comparison.
Specimens are
Apex RivalX 4-32x56
Vortex Razor Gen2 4.5-27x56
Tract Toric 4-25x50 ( I know it is not in the same mag and objective bracket but i wanted to see how it performed.)
All scopes in MIL and set to 15 magnification because that's where am most of the time when i shoot. Also turrets set to the middle of adjustment range to keep it fair as possible.
We tested at 100yards and over a mile on my Fat Boy Tripod with an Improvised board.
Sample size of one each, so don't take everything to serious here.
Not brand loyal to anyone otherwise i would not have three different scopes from three different brands!
You make a good product " I am in" you make a bad product " I am out".
Test took about 4 hours with help of my Wifey, neighbour and his son which is a ERT team member of police in Canada. ( ERT stands for Emergency Response Team of the RCMP here in Canada) Similar to SWAT teams in the states i guess. So i am located in Canada.
What we tested was Focus, Parallax, Field of view, Edge to edge clarity, colors, distortion, low light performance, reticle
In total 4 people, 2 have optics and firearms experience and 2 doesn't just to see what there eye is telling us.
Focus: was easy to adjust and set on all three off them. Smooth turning and stays put so it won't move on you.
Parallax: The Apex Rival was very easy to adjust. It was "in"or "out" that's it. I like that. Best out of the three.
Vortex Razor was a little more fine tuning required till it was just right. Good though
Tract Toric was a little finicky and needed more attention on the dial to get it right. That costs more time on a PRS stage if you have to mess around with it.
Field of view was great on all of them. The Tract should have more when you look at the specs on there website but i was about the same with the other ones. No big difference there at least not much of a difference to our eyes.
Optical performance is probably what most guys are interest in when comparing scopes and i can tell you right out of the bat that the Toric even with the smaller objective lens of 50mm was better performing than the other two. We were all surprised that it performed better during the day in different light conditions and at low light towards the end of the day. The Schott Glass really gathered some freaking light in there. WOW that's bright!
Just in general the clarity, brightness, colours, edge to edge image was the best with the Tract.
Second was the Apex Rival. Excellent during the day but the edges were not clear and crisp. Colours and Image was still good and close to the Tract.
The Vortex is in my arsenal the longest and you can tell that the optical design is older compared to the other two.
The image was clear to all of us but it was slightly darker overall compared to the other two. We all agreed on that.
I have the Vortex for about 4-5 years now and it was not ones at the warranty department.
Reliability is top
We did our best to line up behind the scopes as good and consistent as possible but it gets tiring for the eyes after a while.
Just wanted to remind that we are nitpicking here on the optics, All three are capable of spotting and hitting steel at distance.
The Apex actually has a warranty claim as i am writing this. The zero stop/rev indicator is not working as intended.
After I passed the first revolution, the rev. indicator pops up and as you turn further it falls back down in place and prevents me from turning back to zero. Anyone else have this issue?
Imagine that happens during a match
After talking to Apex, they are sending me a new Elevation Turret Cap. I hope this resolves the issue but leaves a big question mark about quality and long term reliability.
My personal preference from each optic:
I like the Apex CLR reticle the best with the Tract ELR right after and the Vortex EBR-7C last. You make your own choice.
Mag range indication is also best on the Apex at least for me, because it is tilted on an angle and you can see it better behind the rifle.
Included throw lever is great as well. I wish Vortex and Tract would do that too.
The best turrets are the Tract, hard zero stop like a brick wall,tactile clicks, smooth turning turrets, nice big numbers,
Locking Elevation and Windage turrets are effortless to operate. Just taller turrets then all others if that's a con.
The Apex Rival is missing the locking function. I wish they would have it at least on the windage turret.
Nice feeling turrets though and short.
Vortex Razor Locking turrets is a little harder to disengage and engage and the clicks are LOUD and takes a little more effort to turn.
Nothing bad just personal preference.
Overall we picked the Tract over the other two. Fit and finish is better than the other two, Controls are just butter smooth and effortless!
If I could, I would implement a few changes to the Tract like shorter turrets, Mag range indication tilt up, the CLR reticle, Parallax adjustment of the Apex Rival, Just wishful thinking
Maybe Tract is listening! It would be a Hybrid between the Tract and the Apex.
I hope you guys like my little write up and test.
Please correct me if something is wrong and keep the comments positive and criticism respectful.
Thank you.
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