Rifle Scopes Anyone still using a Leupold Mark 4 fixed 10X?

[AN22]

I have a 700P that's had a SWFA 10X on it since I got it, and I absolutely love that scope. However, I found a 1997 Leupold Mark 4 10X40 M1 for a steal. Close to the same price I could sell my SWFA for. I've always been curious about these older fixed Leupold scopes, and felt like trying something new for awhile. I figured I could always flip it for a slight profit if it doesn't work out.

Anybody still using these regularly? Or have first hand experience on how they compare to their SWFA counterpart? Reading posts from ages ago, it sounds like it might be a modest upgrade in optics from the SWFA?

 

[diggler1833]

Make sure you're getting an actual Leupold, and not a Chinese copy first. Easiest way if you don't know is to call Leupold customer service and give them the serial number. They (at least used to) track fakes. I did this with a ca. 2000 Mk4 10x with M3 adjustments that came on a first gen FN SPR rifle before I bought the setup. The local shop told me it was a police trade-in, but I wanted to make sure and not trust a story before I spent my money.

I still use my Mark 4. It still sits on that SPR. The adjustments are mushy as hell, and I can probably fix it, or send it in to Leupold to get it fixed. You can't tell by sound that you've made an adjustment, just by a faint tactile feel...good luck if you're wearing gloves.

I shot one box of FGMM 168gr when I got the rifle. It was zeroed perfectly for that load, and the M3 turret is marked for FGMM 168gr. It produced a couple of. 8-.9 MOA five shot groups if I remember correctly. Nothing fantastic, but I remember being satisfied.

I've since skim bedded and Krylon'd the HS stock, and decided a few years ago I'd dick around with making it a bit of a hunting rifle. I've mentioned it elsewhere on this site; but my very first load I tried, I used the 165gr Nosler BT and put five rounds into .419" at 100 yards. Easiest load development ever. Plus, I'm really lucky in that the Nosler handload tracks perfectly to 400 yards on that turret. It's mushy as hell, but repeatable.

Three years and four bucks later, and I'll be pulling it out of the safe again come November. However this time it'll be sitting loaded next to my side door as I've got a different rifle in mind as my primary rig. However, I've not lost a deer to my combo, and my couple check shots at 250 have always been right on the money. This is why I've never screwed with trying to get the mush out of my turret.

I also have a newer 10x SWFA SS. For $300 it is pretty repeatable and the adjustments are close. I'd also be willing to bet that the glass is pretty comparable to a Leupold Mark 4 from two decades ago (I'm sure more current examples of the Mark 4 are better). I wouldn't recommend it for a hunt of a lifetime at all, because decent mid-tier glass is going to give you a few more minutes of shooting light. But for a bargain rifle or just target shooting I'd say go for it.

My bottom line...I think that the 1997 made Mark 4 and your SS are going to be closer than you might have thought.

My example:

 

[AN22]

Yeah, I'll be calling Leupold when I have it in hand, they're always helpful on the phone. It didn't have any of the usual telltale signs of being fake. No rough silver laser engraved serial, serial isn't all the same number, etc. I've seen several of the variable power fakes, didn't know they had faked the fixed power ones also.

Photo attached for those who know more...

 

[Sniperstud]

I carried a Mk4 M1-10X on a custom Rem 700 for the first ten years, or so, of my career as an LE sniper. It was a very good scope for the time. Few professionals trusted variables for hard use back then. My particular scope tracked well, and still does. It had enough elevation available to get me to 1000 yards, and then some, with a 20 minute rail.

That rifle/scope suffered a couple of hard falls, once on concrete, and it has the turret rash to prove it. But after thorough testing, it still tracked well, held zero, and never lost it’s seal. I upgraded to a Nightforce NXS on a new rifle, and eventually to a S&B 3-27x56 on an AI AXMC, and now my old rifle with the Mk4 gets much less use, but it does get used regularly. It has never lost zero, never had to go back for repairs, and if necessary, it could still get the job done.

I’ve never used the SWFA, so I can’t offer a comparison, but I think the old Mk 4’s are a cool piece of history that you don’t see as often as you once did.

 

[Totoro]

My 10x M1 sits on my trainer Benjamin MROD.

Hardly a workout on that stick, but does the job with no complaints.

I got a 10x Bushy Tactical on another MROD and still works with no complaints.

For sure cross check with Leupold to verify though.

 

[AN22]

Thanks for the info everyone. I had bought the SWFA as a temporary, budget friendly, optic for the rifle until I could afford a newer variable power for the build. But I ended up just loving the simplicity of a 10X, not expecting to. I'm definitely liking the idea of having a classic Leupold 10X on the rifle, since the 700P isn't exactly a modern rifle itself, seems like a solid pairing. I'm am a little hesitant about regressing to a Mil reticle/MOA turret mixed optic, but it's not really a big deal to me.

 

[stefan73]

Good optics.

 

[C-grunt]

I had a 10x Mk4 back around 2003 to 2006. Great scope never had any issues with it. Sold it and the Savage 10FP because I was a newly married young Army E4 and needed money.

Around 2008 or 2009 I bought a SS 10x to go on my Rem700 build. Another good optic that served me well until I moved on to variables.

I obviously never compared them side by side but I do remember thinking they were very comparable optically. Both tracked fine.

Personally for similar pricing I would go with the Mk4. I just like the aesthetics better overall. Id probably see if Leupold could change the turrets to a mil based model.

 

[AN22]

I had a 10x Mk4 back around 2003 to 2006. Great scope never had any issues with it. Sold it and the Savage 10FP because I was a newly married young Army E4 and needed money.

Around 2008 or 2009 I bought a SS 10x to go on my Rem700 build. Another good optic that served me well until I moved on to variables.

I obviously never compared them side by side but I do remember thinking they were very comparable optically. Both tracked fine.

Personally for similar pricing I would go with the Mk4. I just like the aesthetics better overall. Id probably see if Leupold could change the turrets to a mil based model.

Thanks for the info. I'm definitely considering having Leupold swap in some MIL M5 turrets, sound like that service was still offered somewhat recently. With the custom shop still temporarily closed, it might be a long wait however.

 

[ODCMP]

I have a couple Leupold Mark 4 10x scopes that I use regularly, they are both M3 adjustments however. One is on an early Knights Armament SR-25 Match Rifle and another is on a Remington M24. I took the M24 out to 800 yards on steel plates recently with no issues.

It is hard to go wrong with those Leupold fixed scopes.

 

[ODCMP]

P.S. Mr. Knight and Mr. Stoner liked them. This pic shows one with the M1 knobs.

 

[AN22]

UPS dropped it off. Doesn't have any of the tell-tale signs of a Chinese counterfeit, but I'll give Leupold a call tomorrow to check out the serial # anyway. Great condition for a 24 year old scope, windage turret clicks are a little mushy, but elevation is strong. Not a big deal, and seemed to improve with some use. The steel Mark 4 rings were a nice bonus in the box, that's what they appear to be at least.

Will throw it on the 700P tonight and hit the range soon.

Edit: Called Leupold, they said it all checks out. Serial sounded good, but their detailed records only go back to 2008 I guess. The scope has none of the features generally found on the counterfeits. Sounded like counterfeits of the fixed power MK4 scopes are not really seen anyway. Best $400 I've spent in awhile I think. Sending it in to them to get some dirt cleaned off the reticle as well.

 

[Rookie]

I have one mounted on a DSArms FAL. Has the M3 knobs. Leupy sells different turret donuts that easily change for BDC. Mine came with a donut for 168gr. I got another for MOA. The weirdest thing is the elevation adjusts the wrong way from every other scope on the planet. But great glass, heavy gage tube,...

 

[Rookie]

And the windage turret isn't marked so I'm always guessing which way to turn it.

 

[Harv24]

My first high end scope was a 10x MK 4 M1. It had a Premier mildot reticle. bought it in 1997 to sit on my R700 24" barreled PSS.

Shot 1/4" groups all day with 168 gr FGMM.
About 2 years ago I sold it to fund something with a bit more magnification and in Mils. ( a LRSTi in 4.5 x 18x).

It was a tank of a scope, but lacked a lot of features newer scopes have, but could still get the job done.

I made a zero stop out of thin washers for it.

 

[AN22]

An update on this, I gotta say, Leupold is a great company... I ended up sending the scope in to them for service. I noticed a slight rattle, and the reticle had some noticeable dust and what looked like a small scratch. Everything seemed to be functioning good enough, but I figured it was worth a clean and check given the age of the scope. I was expecting to pay a fee for the service.

They had it back to me in about three weeks, no charge at all. It looks brand new now. They took care of the reticle and fixed up everything else. Reticle is perfect, no more internal rattle, turrets click more clearly, and most importantly it's definitely sharper optically. I did some non-scientific comparisons to my SWFA 10X before I shipped it, and they seemed about comparable. The Leupold now definitely has a slight edge optically.

Great warranty and customer service for a 24 year old lens that I bought second hand.

 

[AN22]

Final update to this post. I finally had some time to take the rifle out the the range and test the scope out to 1000 yards. It performed wonderfully, and was definitely a step up from the SWFA 10X.

Super sharp optics, very happy with it. Glad I made the swap. A fixed 10x just feels right on a classic 700P.

 

[DrDeath]

I have two Leupold Mk4 M3 fixed 6x scopes. For a pair of 25 year old scopes they still hold zero, track great and get used weekly.

 

[Forrest84]

Not a Leupold fan myself except for binos but I’ve seen a guy with a 700 P with an old fixed 10x that was pillar bedded and badger DBM freaking spank some pretty decent shooters running 6.5’s some years ago. Guy was incapable of holding an intelligent conversation but that old mk4 didn’t hold him down on a firing line

 

[smoothy8500]

I have a couple fixed Mk4, 10 and 16X. They may be a bastardized mix of moa and IPHY "shooter's moa" but they track true so it's never held me back on KD matches.

 

[SquarePizza]

I run a mk4 10x and it is one of my favorite scopes. The eyebox picks up so fast, and like the others have said the turrets do a great job tracking.

*edit*
I started with a SWFA10x and found the eyebox to be very picky, sold it for a USO St10 with AO, I liked that scope but the leupold was much brighter so I let the USO go. I wish I had kept both. =/

Someday I would like to try an SWFA 10x HD and maybe a S*B 10x someday.

 

[AN22]

The Leupold's eyebox was one of the first things I noticed compared to the SWFA also, mounting the scope was much easier as a result.

 

[DrDeath]

What do the 10x M1’s dial down to as far as parallex adjustment? 10years? 25?

 

[AN22]

What do the 10x M1’s dial down to as far as parallex adjustment? 10years? 25?

I no longer have mine, but if my memory is correct it's minimum parallax was stated to be 50 yards. But I found it could come in a bit closer than that.

 

[Andy RV]

Hey guys,

Just picked one of these up in the UK.

What’s the deal with the 3/4 reticle note on the box? Does that actually mean that the ret is 3/4 scale - 75mm at 100m for each dot?

Cheers

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Hey guys,

Just picked one of these up in the UK.

What’s the deal with the 3/4 reticle note on the box? Does that actually mean that the ret is 3/4 scale - 75mm at 100m for each dot?

Cheers

No, there’s .75mil between the edges of the dots. The dots themselves are .25mil diameter so they’re still 1mil center to center.

 

[Andy RV]

Got it! That makes more sense, thanks.

 

[Longbow]

I still use the Mark 4 M1 16x, lucky for me the elevation and windage still clicks. Now like you I want the 10x M3 version.

 

[stefan73]

I still use the Mark 4 M1 16x, lucky for me the elevation and windage still clicks. Now like you I want the 10x M3 version.

For a moment I thought that was my rifle on my woobie and then I zoomed in.

I know a guy with an M3A

 

[Longbow]

For a moment I thought that was my rifle on my woobie and then I zoomed in.

I know a guy with an M3A

By chance is it the one with Mildots? and are they willing to part with it?