Anyone use Area 419 Universal Dovetail rails with AI AT chassis?

[Glassaholic]

I realize that RRS and Sawtooth Precision both make Arca rail options for the AI AT and I've been talking with Area 419 about their Universal Dovetail rails (10" and 12") and they say it should work if I purchase AI keyslot hardware from AI. Has anyone actually tried this with success?

Why not just get the Sawtooth or RRS you ask? The reason is I really like the idea of the Area 419's scalloped lock slots, but I also realize I could easily use Area 419's barricade stops with the Sawtooth/RRS without the lock slots. One question I do have is even with the Sawtooth (10.9") it extends beyond the end of the AT chassis, for those who've used it, how sturdy is that portion when using a bipod? I'm wondering if this option can do away with the spigot altogether... thanks in advance for your input.

RRS | Really Right Stuff | Mile High Shooting

Really Right Stuff tripods and accessories. RRS SOAR tripods, bags, mounts, and more for sale at Mile High Shooting.

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Sawtooth Rifles Forend Rail: Accuracy International

These forend accessory rails attach to the forends of the Accuracy International rifles and chassis. This rail allows attaching accessories to the rifle, and the rifle to a tripod, with standard RRS 1.5" dovetail (aka Arca-swiss). âOur current offering of rails for the AX and AT...

www.anarchyoutdoors.com

ARCALOCK 12" Universal Dovetail Rail

**Rear Fixed Barricade stop not included, check it out HERE! MLOK Hardware not included. Area 419 is always looking for ways to improve existing products when we are not developing new technologies. With the rapid growth in popularity of ARCA rails in precision rifle, we saw a need to improve...

www.area419.com

 

[blbennett1288]

I used the Sawtooth on my AT and currently use a Sawtooth on my AX and love it. Yes the rail extends past the front of the stock of the AT, negating the need for a spigot. I never had any issues with the part that extends past flexing, but I know Frank mentions it in one of the Everyday sniper podcasts. In my opinion you would really have to be loading the bipod excessively or not have the keyslot screws torqued all the way down. Maybe there was a tolerance stacking issue? Idk but I never had any issues with it.

My recommendation would be the sawtooth rail and no spigot. Keeps it super streamline. The RRS adds some height to an already tall AT stock. I have no experience with the Area419 product, but don’t think it is necessary. I have never had anything slip on the Sawtooth arca rail.

 

[Glassaholic]

^^^ thank you blb, that is the direction I was leaning, seems the Sawtooth is highly regarded. While I like the idea of the Area 419's scalloped dovetail, it may be more heartache trying to get their rail to fit just right with the spacing of the AT keyslots. Thanks also for the info on the extension and flex under load, good to know you have not run into any issues with this.

 

[Adam B]

let me put this right here

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...fax-09-for-accuracy-international-ax.6989702/

 

[Glassaholic]

let me put this right here

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...fax-09-for-accuracy-international-ax.6989702/

Appreciate the link but that is only for the AX chassis, not the AT as far as I can tell and it is only 8.8" long where the Sawtooth Precision is 10.9" long which is more of what I am looking for.

 

[Adam B]

your right, I missed the AT part, sorry

 

[samb300]

@wjm308 I don't know how you'd actually attach the Area 419 rail to the forend using AI KeySlot screws. They are M8 LH threaded and have a proprietary interface, so they definitely will not thread into the Area 419 rail, and using any other type of fastener (M-Lok or Key Mod) will be a bandage approach.

While the Area 419's Arca-Lock is cool, it is not needed if you use a RRS-dovetail spec rail and bipod clamp.

Although biased, my advice if you want the added reach or closer distance to the barrel, get one of the Anarchy bipod spigots I designed. Using one of the longer Arca rails on the forend that extend out front will induce flex. If you use a correct-length Arca forend rail and the Anarchy Arca spigot, you'll have the exact setup you're looking for IMO.

 

[blbennett1288]

Picture for reference of Sawtooth rail on AT

 

[blbennett1288]

If my memory serves me correctly the HRD gear is thicker than the Sawtooth. In a perfect world I would get the Sawtooth, cut off the front part, and put an @samb300 arca spigot up front.

 

[samb300]

Picture for reference of Sawtooth rail on AT
View attachment 7275212

The problem with that, is the front-most KeySlot screw location is about 1.5" from the end of the forend. Then you've got your additional ~3" of rail extending in front of that. When you load the bipod, it causes the rail to flex down, which amplifies the problem because it's pulling away from the forend - not pushing it up into it. Of course if you don't put your bipod in front of the end of the forend you shouldn't have that issue.

 

[Glassaholic]

@wjm308 I don't know how you'd actually attach the Area 419 rail to the forend using AI KeySlot screws. They are M8 LH threaded and have a proprietary interface, so they definitely will not thread into the Area 419 rail, and using any other type of fastener (M-Lok or Key Mod) will be a bandage approach.

While the Area 419's Arca-Lock is cool, it is not needed if you use a RRS-dovetail spec rail and bipod clamp.

Although biased, my advice if you want the added reach or closer distance to the barrel, get one of the Anarchy bipod spigots I designed. Using one of the longer Arca rails on the forend that extend out front will induce flex. If you use a correct-length Arca forend rail and the Anarchy Arca spigot, you'll have the exact setup you're looking for IMO.

Thank you samb, you also sell the Sawtooth on your site so I'm guessing you have experience with it and you're saying it will induce flex? I'm torn with blb's statement above that it hasn't done that for him, I like that as a more streamlined approach but the rifle I'm getting also has your A0 spigot, but if I use the spigot I cannot use the Sawtooth so it's either one or the other... Maybe I get the Sawtooth from you and if I like it I keep that and sell the spigot and if I don't I sell the Sawtooth and get the RRS...

 

[samb300]

Thank you samb, you also sell the Sawtooth on your site so I'm guessing you have experience with it and you're saying it will induce flex? I'm torn with blb's statement above that it hasn't done that for him, I like that as a more streamlined approach but the rifle I'm getting also has your A0 spigot, but if I use the spigot I cannot use the Sawtooth so it's either one or the other... Maybe I get the Sawtooth from you and if I like it I keep that and sell the spigot and if I don't I sell the Sawtooth and get the RRS...

In some ways it depends on how you load the rifle. I use an Atlas and like to load the bipod fairly hard. This can induce the flex, which you won't necessarily "feel" when you're behind the rifle (it's still metal, it's not a wet noodle haha), but can manifest itself in vertical spread on target. It's not because the design is inherently flexy, it's because the front-most KeySlot screw ends up being so far back from the front of the rail.

The Arca spigot I designed looks similar in thickness, but was engineered to resist flex and be as stiff (or stiffer) than a KRG or MPA spigot. The picatinny spigot is basically rigid, and has zero flex

Yes, the RRS forend plate does add height to the forend. But you have to ask yourself how often you'll actually be shooting with the bipod mounted on the forend plate versus the spigot mount? Chances are, the vast majority will be from the spigot, unless it's something stage-specific like a rain barrel or car tire. If you're shooting prone you'll likely want the bipod as far away as possible and with as solid of a mount as possible. Then when you're shooting the AT on a GameChanger type bag on a barricade, the little bit of extra height of the RRS plate will be extremely difficult to notice.

 

[Glassaholic]

Vertical spread can obviously have a big impact the further out you get. I hear what you're saying in that you probably won't notice the flex visually but because the last secure point for the Sawtooth is so far back, it is going to be there and could cause some issues the further out you're shooting.

So it sounds like, in your opinion @samb300, the best situation would be a RRS BAI-AT2 plate along with your Anarchy Outdoors spigot is really the most secure way to go and provides the least potential for flex which could induce vertical spread.

 

[samb300]

Vertical spread can obviously have a big impact the further out you get. I hear what you're saying in that you probably won't notice the flex visually but because the last secure point for the Sawtooth is so far back, it is going to be there and could cause some issues the further out you're shooting.

So it sounds like, in your opinion @samb300, the best situation would be a RRS BAI-AT2 plate along with your Anarchy Outdoors spigot is really the most secure way to go and provides the least potential for flex which could induce vertical spread.

I think so, but there’s certainly no harm in trying the Sawtooth if you want to.

Here’s a pic of the RRS + Arca spigot (not my rifle) for reference.

 

[LA260]

Yes, the RRS forend plate does add height to the forend. But you have to ask yourself how often you'll actually be shooting with the bipod mounted on the forend plate versus the spigot mount? Chances are, the vast majority will be from the spigot, unless it's something stage-specific like a rain barrel or car tire. If you're shooting prone you'll likely want the bipod as far away as possible and with as solid of a mount as possible. Then when you're shooting the AT on a GameChanger type bag on a barricade, the little bit of extra height of the RRS plate will be extremely difficult to notice.

Agree with this 100%. I have the RRS rail and the EI Spigot mount and I dont remember putting the bipod on the RRS rail even during matches. If I can't use the bipod I just shoot off a bag.

 

[Glassaholic]

I think so, but there’s certainly no harm in trying the Sawtooth if you want to.

Here’s a pic of the RRS + Arca spigot (not my rifle) for reference.

View attachment 7275281

Thank you, that helps. I like the idea of just the Sawtooth, but I'm also concerned about the VS issue you mentioned. One other question for you and others, I have Atlas bipods but I also just got a Ckye pod that I am really loving, the Ckye-pod has a barricade stop on the back, based on the picture above, it looks like it would clear just fine but has anyone had issues with Ckye-pod's and spigots with the AT chassis?

 

[samb300]

Thank you, that helps. I like the idea of just the Sawtooth, but I'm also concerned about the VS issue you mentioned. One other question for you and others, I have Atlas bipods but I also just got a Ckye pod that I am really loving, the Ckye-pod has a barricade stop on the back, based on the picture above, it looks like it would clear just fine but has anyone had issues with Ckye-pod's and spigots with the AT chassis?

I don’t have a Ckye Pod in hand to 100% confirm, but based on this picture and the fact that an Atlas CAL w/Pod-Loc fits the spigot without issue, I think you’re good. It barely extends rearward past the Arca clamp.

 

[scotchtape]

I went with the sawtooth - no regrets at all

 

[MarinePMI]

I have an early sawtooth rail. I saw an increase in vertical spread with my AI, when putting the bipod all the way out. Whether that is me, the rail or something else, IDK. Since moving it back under the rifle the VS went away, however the bipod being closer, and lower, has made the rifle less stable than when I ran an AI spigot.

I just got an ARCA spigot, and will mount it once I get the RRS AT specific rail. I really preferred the location of the bipod where the AI spigot was, but the constant re-tightening of it drove me nuts. Hopefully, this spigot and rail combo will solve the issue.

 

[IronOperator87]

Been though this with my A/T. Had the atlas bipod adapter, the sawtooth rail that stuck out the front and have had the issues with both that others have mentioned. I now run AO’s/ samb300’s picatinny spigot and and the sawtooth rail I cut shorter and its a rock solid setup. The spigot gets you closer to the bore and further out for more stability.

 

[Glassaholic]

I've decided I'll keep the Anarchy Outdoors (AO) spigot and will be getting the RRS BAI-AT2. I really like the Sawtooth but don't want to cut it to have it work and like the flush look of the RRS, hopefully the increased height of the RRS won't make that much of a difference for my shooting. Seems like Sawtooth and/or Area 419 should make a shorter option for those who still want to use the spigot.

RRS | Really Right Stuff | Mile High Shooting

Really Right Stuff tripods and accessories. RRS SOAR tripods, bags, mounts, and more for sale at Mile High Shooting.

www.milehighshooting.com

Accuracy International Spigot Mount

Increase the stability of your Accuracy International with a custom spigot bipod mount by Anarchy Outdoors. This single-piece 6061-T6 Aluminon and Type-III Hardcoated spigot mount is the perfect upgrade.

www.anarchyoutdoors.com

 

[samb300]

I just heard from Anarchy and it sounds like the 2-piece AT Arca rail is now a go. It was tabled for a while but is back on. This is a unique design that sits nice and flush with the angled section in front of the magwell, and you can add an optional 1# internal weight behind the spigot mount which attaches via the rail. I don’t have any details on price or availability though.

 

[Pvt.Donut]

FYI, looks like Area 419 just teased THIS IMAGE. Not sure if this would fit the AT or not.

 

[samb300]

FYI, looks like Area 419 just teased THIS IMAGE. Not sure if this would fit the AT or not.

Definitely not, it’s just for the AX.

 

[Glassaholic]

I just heard from Anarchy and it sounds like the 2-piece AT Arca rail is now a go. It was tabled for a while but is back on. This is a unique design that sits nice and flush with the angled section in front of the magwell, and you can add an optional 1# internal weight behind the spigot mount which attaches via the rail. I don’t have any details on price or availability though.

That looks nice, maybe even better than the RRS. But I'm sure I won't have an issue selling the RRS if I like this better once available

 

[Glassaholic]

FYI, looks like Area 419 just teased THIS IMAGE. Not sure if this would fit the AT or not.

That is one crazy looking rail, might be a hit for the AX owners....

 

[LA260]

I just heard from Anarchy and it sounds like the 2-piece AT Arca rail is now a go. It was tabled for a while but is back on. This is a unique design that sits nice and flush with the angled section in front of the magwell, and you can add an optional 1# internal weight behind the spigot mount which attaches via the rail. I don’t have any details on price or availability though.
View attachment 7276039View attachment 7276040View attachment 7276041View attachment 7276043

This might solve the only issue I have with he RRS Rail. The gap!!

 

[clubsportmark]

I just heard from Anarchy and it sounds like the 2-piece AT Arca rail is now a go. It was tabled for a while but is back on. This is a unique design that sits nice and flush with the angled section in front of the magwell, and you can add an optional 1# internal weight behind the spigot mount which attaches via the rail. I don’t have any details on price or availability though.
View attachment 7276039View attachment 7276040View attachment 7276041View attachment 7276043

Sam, I assume you will be notifying us with a thread when these are available for sale?

 

[MarinePMI]

So, just to update this thread...

I have a newer (updated) Sawtooth ARCA rail for the AT, which is substantially more rigid, with only a minor increase in thickness. Once the range opens back up (Corona virus crap), I'll check vertical dispersion. I suspect it will be gone. As an aside, it retains the same footprint as the gen 1 version, but also supports a pic rail on the front end (if desired).

 

[samb300]

Sam, I assume you will be notifying us with a thread when these are available for sale?

Yes sir. No time line right now from the machine shop, I just know they’re in queue along with the AI buttpad weights and AI forend weights.

 

[Glassaholic]

So, just to update this thread...

I have a newer (updated) Sawtooth ARCA rail for the AT, which is substantially more rigid, with only a minor increase in thickness. Once the range opens back up (Corona virus crap), I'll check vertical dispersion. I suspect it will be gone. As an aside, it retains the same footprint as the gen 1 version, but also supports a pic rail on the front end (if desired).

This is the one they show on their website right now is that correct? It is still the version that overhangs the front, or is this a new version that does not overhang?

 

[MarinePMI]

It still overhangs the front. Not sure if this is the one on the site or not.

@NoLegs24

 

[NoLegs24]

It still overhangs the front. Not sure if this is the one on the site or not.

@NoLegs24

This is what I have as far as pics go. If you can show detailed pics of the bottom with key slot and new placement of stop screws to work better with RRS dual pic rail/ dovetail mounts, that will be great. Its def a thicker more rigid rail than the older model to help with the “flex” at the front end.

 

[MarinePMI]

Damn. You take nice photos. ??

 

[NoLegs24]

Lol. Here's the updated pics, on the site

http://www.sawtoothrifles.com/store/p14/Sawtooth_Rifles_Forend_Rail:_Accuracy_International_.html