Any one running these rifles/uppers? What are your thoughts on them? How do they shoot? Would you buy again at their current prices?
Anyone using Geissele Super Duty rifles/uppers?
- Thread starter Shooter McGavin
- Start date
I have an upper and a complete rifle. Both are excellent. If I needed one now, I wouldn't hesitate. If I could wait, their Black Friday sales are awesome. There are some pretty good discount coupons floating around too.
I've put about 500 rounds through a 16" super duty rifle. No issues thus far, though I wouldn't expect any decent rifle to have issues through 500 rounds in favorable conditions, so don't read too far into that. I have shot 62 GN M855 and Hornady 75 GN HPBT Hand loads. With an unmagnified holographic sight I can get 1.5 -2 MOA consistently with both at 100 yards which is on par with other duty rifles I have shot with Holo sights. I suspect those groups will be better once the 1-8x I have on order comes in.
The "super mid length" gas system coupled with the super 42 spring and buffer lends itself to a very soft shooting system when compared to other duty type rifles. I haven't shot too many 3 gun type rifles with tuned gas and recoil systems, so I can't authoritatively compare to those.
Another thing worth mentioning is that the front end is a little heavier than I am used too. I think this is in part due to a slightly heavier profile barrel and a 15" handguard. Not an issue, just worth noting.
The "super mid length" gas system coupled with the super 42 spring and buffer lends itself to a very soft shooting system when compared to other duty type rifles. I haven't shot too many 3 gun type rifles with tuned gas and recoil systems, so I can't authoritatively compare to those.
Another thing worth mentioning is that the front end is a little heavier than I am used too. I think this is in part due to a slightly heavier profile barrel and a 15" handguard. Not an issue, just worth noting.
Man I was kind of hoping for more. My other rifles are soft shooters and meet the 1.5 to 2.0 moa with red dots. I have the UGI upper and it’s front heavy because of the govt profile bbl that was required. Also, it’s a DD bbl. I guess instead I should just put my Steiner 1-4 on what I all ready have. I guess I just am not seeing what’s being offered by Geissele and I know others have remove the 42 spring set up and replaced it with the A5.
Perhaps I should clarify my groupings. I don't want you to get the impression that I'm claiming it's inaccurate. I shot at 50 and 200 to zero and did a couple 5 round groups at 100 to ensure it was acceptable accuracy. The rest of my shooting was done inside of 50. The handloads were not tuned for this rifle either, they are a generic load I have. All in all 1.5 MOA accuracy was sufficient for me, so I haven't spent a lot of time shooting groups and trying to get them as tight as possible. As stated, with a magnified optic it will likely do better.
Also, I found the fit and finish to be very good, and the Geissele trigger is phenomenal. Time will tell on reliability, but so far so good. Overall I'm happy with it.
I have Geissele SSE triggers in my rifles and really like them. I have mostly BCM uppers. However, I have built riffles using VLTOR uppers and Daniel Defense or Criterion barrels. All builds done on Aero Precision lowers with BCM A5 buffers. Also, I like BCM grip and stocks.
I am interested in the how the Geissele barrels perform and if they are on par with something like Daniel Defense. I guess I am looking at buying the Geissele and them changing the grip and stock. Maybe even switching to the A5 buffer system as I read people with Geissele have been doing that saying it’s better then the Geissele 42 spring set up. I like the idea of getting the Geissele complete rifle, instead of my Frankin rifles.
I am interested in the how the Geissele barrels perform and if they are on par with something like Daniel Defense. I guess I am looking at buying the Geissele and them changing the grip and stock. Maybe even switching to the A5 buffer system as I read people with Geissele have been doing that saying it’s better then the Geissele 42 spring set up. I like the idea of getting the Geissele complete rifle, instead of my Frankin rifles.
When they had them listed for under 1250 or 1350 it was a solid buy just because of the company’s QC and past product. But at 1750 -2150 and no background on full builds.....shittttt. There are better builds for that kind of cash.
I have an upper. It works fine. The other rifles I shoot are DD and BCM. For the limited amount of experience I have with it, I don't see it as definitively better than the other two brands. But, given the features, its hard to argue that there is a better value for price on the market right now.
I am starting to think less of Geissele's business practices lately, but, personal opinions aside, I'd buy one of their uppers (not a whole rifle) before a BCM. But if price were not an issue, I'd buy DD first.
Mine is a SD 11.5 upper equipped the same as my 14.5 ELW BCM. The 11.5 feels heavier up front when equipped with the same light and similar irons. The BCM has the stubby mod3 VFG, and the Geissele has the Magpul hand stop thingy.
I am starting to think less of Geissele's business practices lately, but, personal opinions aside, I'd buy one of their uppers (not a whole rifle) before a BCM. But if price were not an issue, I'd buy DD first.
Mine is a SD 11.5 upper equipped the same as my 14.5 ELW BCM. The 11.5 feels heavier up front when equipped with the same light and similar irons. The BCM has the stubby mod3 VFG, and the Geissele has the Magpul hand stop thingy.
my opinion is that Geissele is overrated and overpriced across their product lines.
LOL. Just looked at their site today. Price on the 11.5 upper increased $75. Now MSRP is within $15 of a DD upper in similar configuration, and around $80-100 more than a BCM upper.
If DD ever gets back to offering custom configurations, they will probably be my go to.
If DD ever gets back to offering custom configurations, they will probably be my go to.
Not quite.
They make the best triggers and rail systems hands down. They are comparable in price to any other premium product line. Alot of their development has been with input from socom over the last 15+ years. Bill made the first ever match duty trigger that could stand up to mil cycle. Guys were swaping out mk11 and mk12s to the high speed as fast as they could get them.
Some of their shit is gimmicky and overpriced but same can be said with any company.
The 14.5 URGI upper with a Surefire can on it is pretty soft shooting, and is one of the first I’d grab out of the safe should it really be needed. I’m not sure if prices have gone up, but I got it >1 year ago on either Black Friday or some other roughly 20% off sale. For that price I thought it was pretty value for what you are getting.
Just curious if anyone has experience with the Geissele 16 inch super duty rifle vs. the Sig MCX Virtus Patrol and thoughts in terms of quality of construction, accuracy, ergonomics, etc. Thanks!
I’ll muddy the waters a bit.
I wasn’t that impressed. Ignoring that the 16” SD from black friday arrived in April and the lower and upper anodizing was about 5 shades different. I put on a Be meyers FH and shot some tight groups, .5-1” at 100 yards. Similar performance at 200.
That ain’t bad at all right?I decided to make this more of an SPR, added a bipod, I put on a dead air FH, and dropped a sandman-S on.
From running no can to running a can )6” POI shift, and with and with groups went to 4-5” at 100.
Maybe it’s the TQ v/s a crush washer, but I think it’s the weight and the barrel profile.
I noticed if you grab the rail and push the end of the barrel the thing bends nearly to touching the rail. I’ve since sold the barrel and replaced it with a Noveske Recon 16” so I can run a can.
ETA - I also saw numerous QC issues come out of that “batch” on the long arfcom thread.
I wasn’t that impressed. Ignoring that the 16” SD from black friday arrived in April and the lower and upper anodizing was about 5 shades different. I put on a Be meyers FH and shot some tight groups, .5-1” at 100 yards. Similar performance at 200.
That ain’t bad at all right?I decided to make this more of an SPR, added a bipod, I put on a dead air FH, and dropped a sandman-S on.
From running no can to running a can )6” POI shift, and with and with groups went to 4-5” at 100.
Maybe it’s the TQ v/s a crush washer, but I think it’s the weight and the barrel profile.
I noticed if you grab the rail and push the end of the barrel the thing bends nearly to touching the rail. I’ve since sold the barrel and replaced it with a Noveske Recon 16” so I can run a can.
ETA - I also saw numerous QC issues come out of that “batch” on the long arfcom thread.
I have a BF Super Duty pistol, no QC issues on mine it runs flawless, the anodize is fine I know its never going to match perfect so 50 shades of tan it is, I was impressed so far, But I did hear QC issues with thr first batch of 16" rifles I ordered my 16" black SD and scope months later after that huge BF wait I was skeptical but it arrived quickly and the finish and fit are awesome groups .5 to .75 I was pretty impressed honestly, and the 16" is "technically" Mommas rifle she loves it light accurate cant really complain
Attachments
Apparently, Bill Geissele’s favorite word is “Super!”
If I didn't run KAC SR15's, I would probably snag a few of these.
Sigs are universal pieces of shit, and have a long track record of failure and disapointment. You can't even compare G to them.
You can grab almost any barrel and pull it towards the rail. G rails are not made for reflexed cans behind them, one of their cons. Congrats, you just destroyed your upper by putting stress points on it which WILL lead to accuracy issues and possibly deformation. Takes a special kind of window licker to even attempt that.
You can and will get POI shift with just about any can , especially one the gun wasn't designed to run with. Run the surefire if you want it to work as designed.
Sigs are universal pieces of shit, and have a long track record of failure and disapointment. You can't even compare G to them.
You can grab almost any barrel and pull it towards the rail. G rails are not made for reflexed cans behind them, one of their cons. Congrats, you just destroyed your upper by putting stress points on it which WILL lead to accuracy issues and possibly deformation. Takes a special kind of window licker to even attempt that.
You can and will get POI shift with just about any can , especially one the gun wasn't designed to run with. Run the surefire if you want it to work as designed.
At this point I’m just considering the 16 inch super duty, sig MCX virtus, or a Daniel Defense. Geissele is the leading contender but open to all suggestions.
I don't doubt that. Just wish I could build it the way I want it and not have to pay more to make it perfect for me.
Except for KAC the Geissele duper duty is ahead in features and advanced materials.
The barrel is CHF'd from advanced materials. The Super42 spring system is supposedly an improvement over the mil spec.
Geissele produces his shit in house and most others assemble their shit in house after buying parts from oem contract machine shops.
The barrel is CHF'd from advanced materials. The Super42 spring system is supposedly an improvement over the mil spec.
Geissele produces his shit in house and most others assemble their shit in house after buying parts from oem contract machine shops.
Last edited:
After just getting off the phone with Geissele I will not ever purchase anything from them again. Very poor CS to put it mildly. And it took a very long time to even get in touch with them.
Who did you speak to if you dont mind and Ill let the head know what a rude asshole the person was.
Guy was not really rude. He just told me to go to website, find what I needed and buy it. He could not help me. So why have CS? I am sure he was simply stating company policy. My issue is a near new HS NM trigger that has a weak hammer spring and gets misfires. Clearly a problem on a like new trigger that cost this much.
Best rails?
So you never read anything about the MK16 being a total piece of SH%!?
You are comparing apples and hand-grenades and it was from JSOC that used them. A VERY small group of units using this stuff, so the amounts made are incredibly small. Mass producing that kind of quality is a completely different thing. They made triggers and rails for the 416...... If you have not seen them, the 416 rails is completely different then the AR rail. They tried to adapt the 416 rail to work with the AR platform instead of using a dedicated design.
For people not using a Laser, Clip-On NVD, or iron sights then those rails do exactly what people want.......
Ill let him know and I actually requested a heavier spring for my NM trigger for my service rifle.
If you look at the history of the SD it was not really a premium rifle, just a rifle that the price was raised on to move it into the premium class. Still not a KAC or JP.
Best rails?
So you never read anything about the MK16 being a total piece of SH%!?
You are comparing apples and hand-grenades and it was from JSOC that used them. A VERY small group of units using this stuff, so the amounts made are incredibly small. Mass producing that kind of quality is a completely different thing. They made triggers and rails for the 416...... If you have not seen them, the 416 rails is completely different then the AR rail. They tried to adapt the 416 rail to work with the AR platform instead of using a dedicated design.
For people not using a Laser, Clip-On NVD, or iron sights then those rails do exactly what people want.......
A 10 MOA Shift is not bad..........
I put mine up F/S if anyone wants to form their own opinion, I need cash for an optic.
I purchased it for the color and wasn’t completely satisfied, as I had built the same if not better rifle from the ground up.
The best part if that rifle is the trigger, and the interface between the rail and receiver. I’m not wven sure if that trigger is available for individual sale, I like the flat and slight curb at the bottom. Feels every bit as good as my hi-speed NM.
I purchased it for the color and wasn’t completely satisfied, as I had built the same if not better rifle from the ground up.
The best part if that rifle is the trigger, and the interface between the rail and receiver. I’m not wven sure if that trigger is available for individual sale, I like the flat and slight curb at the bottom. Feels every bit as good as my hi-speed NM.
Not sure about the ammo, but I assembled an AR15 that shoots good with 55gr Fed and I have used it for classes. It ran like a champ.
Mine runs well, it runs well with crappy ammo that my home build won’t cycle. They have different gasblocks and barrels though so it’s all gas.
I used a Criterion Core barrel. It's 1/8 twist and not 1/7 like the Geissele. Also, it's a .223 Wylde chamber. Gas block is a Superlative Arms.
Best rails?
So you never read anything about the MK16 being a total piece of SH%!?
A 10 MOA Shift is not bad..........
While “best” rail the MK16 isn’t; your and the internet’s interpretations of “shift” are not correct.
Optics with very few exceptions do not hold zero when dropped from any hight at all. Lasers do not hold zero consistently- any of them when dropped form more than 2’ish feet. “Rail gate” was a farce precisely because people thought that their Leupold/Vortex/Acoq optics and Peq15 or any other laser would hold zero when dropped- they don’t. Not at all. Not to mention, that nearly every other modern rail made has the same issues as the MK16.
You can’t have it all. You want a lightweight, super thin rail- then it’s going to be less durable than a thick, over built full pic rail. That’s just reality. But, the question is, is the rail stable and durable enough for your purpose? The MK16 is a good rail, and other than a MK1 Geissele or Hodge Wedge Lock, it is as good as any other top end thin MLOK handguard.
Do you know That this "SHIFT" is not referring to to the optics? It is referring to the rail SHIFT off its axis. I have seen so many of their rails shift from everything from falling over to simply firing them.
I have been dealing with Geissele products for a very long time and I have not been impressed. They are a nitch product that filled a requirement for JSOC to modify the 416. That does not transfer over to the AR platform.
I don't want it all. I want my rail to work as if should. That is why I have used and will continue to use a Pic rail in order to get the rigidity and durability that I need. I have never been a fan of the MLOK or KEYMOD system as it is just asking for all of the extra items to fail, loose function with the weight loss, and no longer have a completely secure mounting system for Rial items.
If people are not attaching lasers or any other optical items to their rail then i make perfect sense to use a ultra light rail...... or even think if a rail is needed.
The marketing materials have gotten ridiculous. It’s ok stuff at the Black Friday / sale prices. Full price I’d buy something else.
How is it being determined that the rail is shifted off axis?
I don’t doubt that you have. So have I.
What Picatinny rail are you using that uses a conventaional barrel nut system, that does not shift from a 1.5m drop (the Army slide)?
What rail items have you had fail, lose function, or otherwise not work with quality MLOK?
I get that, so what rail, optic and laser are you using that does not shift from impacts (drops)?
Last edited:
I believe the majority of the beef with Geissele rails comes from their lack of transparency on the issue, more than the actual available data (which didn't come from Geissele).
Best rails?
So you never read anything about the MK16 being a total piece of SH%!?
You are comparing apples and hand-grenades and it was from JSOC that used them. A VERY small group of units using this stuff, so the amounts made are incredibly small. Mass producing that kind of quality is a completely different thing. They made triggers and rails for the 416...... If you have not seen them, the 416 rails is completely different then the AR rail. They tried to adapt the 416 rail to work with the AR platform instead of using a dedicated design.
For people not using a Laser, Clip-On NVD, or iron sights then those rails do exactly what people want.......
Listen Asshole why the fuck do you keep bringing up JSOC? As far as small group of users.
Over 10,500 rails and parts went to USASOC for the URGI M4A1 upgrade. over 4200 for MK18 upgrade and not to mention thousands of other unit orders being fulfilled not including the over 5K for the M110A1 upgrade.
If you are gonna slander a company then get your fucking facts straight instead of making shit up like you have an agenda.
Last edited:
Wow............ you really don't get it.
You are absolutely right, I was wrong. Thanks, for educating all of us with your vast knowledge.
Have a great life.
I bought a URGI rifle when they offered them. Basically the URGI 14.5 upper on a geissele lower. Its Ok. I wish it were a DD M4a1. If anyone wanted it I would gladly sell it and buy a DD. That should tell you about anything you need to know.
So, I read all the posts on this rifle and still went ahead and bought an unused SD in the box for $750.00
Seems to be a pretty nice rifle for basic defense use.
The original owner included a BCM grip and magazine and changed out the stock to a Magpul. I never liked the OpMod so the Magpul is fine for my use.
Haven’t decided if I’ll keep it or sell it.
Seems to be a pretty nice rifle for basic defense use.
The original owner included a BCM grip and magazine and changed out the stock to a Magpul. I never liked the OpMod so the Magpul is fine for my use.
Haven’t decided if I’ll keep it or sell it.
Last edited:
In the current market of $800+ M&P Sport rifles, it would probably be hard to do much better for $750. Then again, you could likely flip it for some extra money towards something else. Let us know how it works for you.
