Any of you have any experience with combining the above two? I'm wanting insights on how bitcoin will do with respect to inflation verses stocks verses precious metals. Bitcoin fascinates me. I want to get some insights from those with experience in bitcoin.
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Anyone with Bitcoin vs. stocks insights
- Thread starter Sgtsideways
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I had a coworker proclaim that he had made over triple his annual salary with crypto currencies and how it’s the single greatest revenue maker of all time and how the blockchain idea is perfection. When asked him to show us a dollar amount in his savings accounts, he’d always balk. We never saw so much as a penny in any account.
I called bullshit on it. Is it a cool idea? Sure. But, I don’t anticipate it becoming the “new norm.” Granted, I’m only 33 and haven’t lived long enough to anticipate where it’s headed. I’ve invested all of my savings into Roth IRA’s with index funds and stock options trading. I’ve seen FAR more growth over a longer period of time than I’ve seen with any crypto.....
it may explode and be the new form of financial trading. However, from what I know of it and the blockchain workings, since the government isn’t able to control it and get their hands on it, that tells me it’ll never fully go mainstream. Just my 2 cents. I trust stocks in S&P 500 companies far more so than a “currency” on the internet that doesn’t even really exist.
I called bullshit on it. Is it a cool idea? Sure. But, I don’t anticipate it becoming the “new norm.” Granted, I’m only 33 and haven’t lived long enough to anticipate where it’s headed. I’ve invested all of my savings into Roth IRA’s with index funds and stock options trading. I’ve seen FAR more growth over a longer period of time than I’ve seen with any crypto.....
it may explode and be the new form of financial trading. However, from what I know of it and the blockchain workings, since the government isn’t able to control it and get their hands on it, that tells me it’ll never fully go mainstream. Just my 2 cents. I trust stocks in S&P 500 companies far more so than a “currency” on the internet that doesn’t even really exist.
.Gov has allowed bitcoin scam to run because in in "new normal" revision 2 it's their plan for the dollar. Then they will be able to track every transaction. Step out of line they freeze your account.
Current bit coin, it's good if you time your buys and sells like any ponzi scheme. Don't get stuck holding the bag.
Look to the Madoff investors who got out early with profit. The Gov took all their profit and most of their principle, because they had no right to profit from crime, even though no one knew it was a crime at the time.
Current bit coin, it's good if you time your buys and sells like any ponzi scheme. Don't get stuck holding the bag.
Look to the Madoff investors who got out early with profit. The Gov took all their profit and most of their principle, because they had no right to profit from crime, even though no one knew it was a crime at the time.
You cant IMO treat bitcoin(or other crypto) the same as stocks... In a "normal" world a stock will track with company performance or some concrete development... something at least "tangible"...
Crypto is nothing but a speculatory medium(not that the regular stock market isnt anymore)... The swings it takes are absolutely MIND BOGGLING. Somebody talks it up(like Musk did with Dogecoin) and the price goes ape shit. In the last 12 months BTC has been as low as 4k usd and is now at 56k usd... holy sheep shit....
If you want too play in crypto then better use play money.
Crypto is nothing but a speculatory medium(not that the regular stock market isnt anymore)... The swings it takes are absolutely MIND BOGGLING. Somebody talks it up(like Musk did with Dogecoin) and the price goes ape shit. In the last 12 months BTC has been as low as 4k usd and is now at 56k usd... holy sheep shit....
If you want too play in crypto then better use play money.
My wifes brother bought 4 Bitcoins back when they were 1000 each. He still has them today, I guess it's been 4 years. They are now worth 50K+ apiece and he won't sell them. He firmly believes that they will be at least 100k soon. He has also made alot it E Gold? The key is to buy it when they are cheap, your not really risking much and just hold onto them. He says he won't take any profit till he has a Million dollars in his account? There are lots of people who have made a fortune in crypto. My wife has made about 12k profit in the last year. Not a ton of money but not alot invested either.
I have been invested in Bitcoin and other crypto coins about 4 years now. Originally invested about $20,000. Have taken my original investment out, playing with house money now. I have done very well. The smart money is investing now and Recommend up to 5% of your assets should be invested in crypto as a hedge. But don’t invest more than you can afford to lose. Most retail investors start with Coinbase.
ColinW,
The reason why he is not showing you his "saving account", is because Bitcoin is separate from regular dollars, until you sell it.
As long as Bitcoin continues to climb, most people are hanging onto them, and not selling. Therefor, he is not selling them, and then crying when he looks at his saving account, which has not grown like some of these crypto-currencies have.
Right now, Bitcoin is outside of my normal reach to invest in entire coins, although you can do fractional coin investments. Instead, I am looking at some of the other coins for future investments. I am currently considering LiteCoin, as it's price has not skyrocketed ridiculously yet.. but it IS climbing.
The reason why he is not showing you his "saving account", is because Bitcoin is separate from regular dollars, until you sell it.
As long as Bitcoin continues to climb, most people are hanging onto them, and not selling. Therefor, he is not selling them, and then crying when he looks at his saving account, which has not grown like some of these crypto-currencies have.
Right now, Bitcoin is outside of my normal reach to invest in entire coins, although you can do fractional coin investments. Instead, I am looking at some of the other coins for future investments. I am currently considering LiteCoin, as it's price has not skyrocketed ridiculously yet.. but it IS climbing.
.Gov can't trace Bitcoin transactions nearly as easily as they can with a standard debit or credit card. Picking Bitcoin because it's "traceable" just isn't a thing.
I can sort of see the argument for Bitcoin being a ponzi scheme, but certainly not any more so than fiat currencies like the USD. Since it's not backed by gold anymore, what's to stop the fed from walking in the back room and printing up another 5 trillion? Nothing, which is why they've been doing exactly that. At least Bitcoin is a finite resource.
It doesn't make a good currency for everyday use because the blockchain network just can't handle the sheer amount of transactions that would be necessary. That doesn't mean it's a bad investment, especially in a time where 40% of all dollars ever printed have been in the last year.
Xom is up what.... 46% in the last 2 months. Pays a 6%ish dividend.
I would put my money on big oil before I would trust a cryptocurrency.
Once things open up oil stocks “should” keep tearing it up towards the up side.
I think energy is the biggest lagger in this “ recovery “ so far.
I would put my money on big oil before I would trust a cryptocurrency.
Once things open up oil stocks “should” keep tearing it up towards the up side.
I think energy is the biggest lagger in this “ recovery “ so far.
How would you factor in the current administration's positions on oil projects? I would imagine the keystone project getting cancelled doesn't help anything
It was canned in the middle of that upswing.
Do you see oil being replaced in the near future? I’m not worried.
We may go from energy independent to dependent but either way big oil wins.
Big oil has the resources to shift into renewables as well. Which they are doing.
If you want a long play on renewables you may look into nee. They are massive. Btw, née is in a lower swing as of late sooooo.,. Opportunity??? Your call on that one. But I did place a bet on them a few months ago.
Bottom line.
I would not bet against them.
Do you see oil being replaced in the near future? I’m not worried.
We may go from energy independent to dependent but either way big oil wins.
Big oil has the resources to shift into renewables as well. Which they are doing.
If you want a long play on renewables you may look into nee. They are massive. Btw, née is in a lower swing as of late sooooo.,. Opportunity??? Your call on that one. But I did place a bet on them a few months ago.
Bottom line.
I would not bet against them.
I agree that crypto currency investment is generally described as "the greater fool paradigm". However, it does have the attractive feature of allowing commerce which does not create the usual paper trail. It also allows for a person to accumulate wealth without conferring with a tax-pro. These things makes crypto currency attractive to some, and provides an endless string of people who will gleefully be "the greater fool". This tends to assure a long-term growth in value. If you are a business, and don't want to advertise an expansion before you can execute a stock option? You buy the property with crypto currency. And yes, there are realtors who will sell property on crypto currency. You can buy almost anything these days with crypto currency. This level of anonymity is very attractive for some people.
Putting on my speculative hat.
What do you think happens when the digital dollar comes out? Do you think .gov will allow competition? Do you think they would give up something as powerful as that?
How many people already use a digital dollar right now. Direct deposit, debit cards, electronic bill pay. We are a paperless society. Right now the transaction cost per purchase makes Bitcoin unreasonable for daily transactions. ( Warning: big jump ahead ) Enter quantum computing and everything changes. One world currency, world wide tracking. That’s a very shiny object to wave in front of a power craving beast.
See the rabbit hole?
Now much can happen between now and then.
Can you make money actively trading bitcoin or any other stock. Sure. The question becomes it it something you want to own or hold.
Anyways, enough rambling from me.
Best of luck in your investments.
What do you think happens when the digital dollar comes out? Do you think .gov will allow competition? Do you think they would give up something as powerful as that?
How many people already use a digital dollar right now. Direct deposit, debit cards, electronic bill pay. We are a paperless society. Right now the transaction cost per purchase makes Bitcoin unreasonable for daily transactions. ( Warning: big jump ahead ) Enter quantum computing and everything changes. One world currency, world wide tracking. That’s a very shiny object to wave in front of a power craving beast.
See the rabbit hole?
Now much can happen between now and then.
Can you make money actively trading bitcoin or any other stock. Sure. The question becomes it it something you want to own or hold.
Anyways, enough rambling from me.
Best of luck in your investments.
The real draw to crypto is hedge against inflation.
Less people trusting gold.
Its lighter and easier to transfer.
When or if inflation hits will be the tell tale for crypto.large companies are already using it to start.
Less people trusting gold.
Its lighter and easier to transfer.
When or if inflation hits will be the tell tale for crypto.large companies are already using it to start.
I understand that.
what happens when countries ban it.
Let’s say China, as that seems to be the obvious first choice.
Good luck banning it. The dark web is very real and active. The pirate Bay has been taken down and put back up for decades at this point. With encryption, it gets exceedingly difficult to trace anything. The fed hasn't ever been successful at completely banning anything. Hell even China hasn't been able to completely block things they don't like on the internet thanks to VPNs and encryption.
One benefit to a worldwide decentralized network anyway
Let me clarify my previous statement a bit.
Let us say that .gov bandit. It would be removed from all stock trading exchanges.
Sure it may still exist in some dark corners of the world but for all practical purposes it no longer exist as an investment instrument.
Let us say that .gov bandit. It would be removed from all stock trading exchanges.
Sure it may still exist in some dark corners of the world but for all practical purposes it no longer exist as an investment instrument.
Some really good points here, but I really have a problem with how it will function with the hyper-inflation that is ahead. Particularly worrisome to me is how the majors in the stock market want to get in on the action. Reading more and more about the sec and coinbase getting a foot in the door for the stock market.
Outfits like the hedge funds will be anxious to get their hands on it, and that is where I see real problems for the future of bitcoin and the similar's. When I look at gold, it doesn't seem to be the hedge against inflation that so many have claimed in the past. Some claim that is because of manipulation of price. Where that "manipulation" is coming from is beyond me. Anyone care to take a stab at it?
Outfits like the hedge funds will be anxious to get their hands on it, and that is where I see real problems for the future of bitcoin and the similar's. When I look at gold, it doesn't seem to be the hedge against inflation that so many have claimed in the past. Some claim that is because of manipulation of price. Where that "manipulation" is coming from is beyond me. Anyone care to take a stab at it?
The thing is @addertooth , he wouldn't even show us his "crypto portfolio" on an App or via computer. Weather that be his BTC, LTC, or whatever stupid coin name to prove validity to his claims. Our team crew never saw a so much as single penny dollar amount of his so-called "triple annual salary" portfolio. I called him out on it too....if you're claiming all these "wonderful" financial gains in crypto currency trading, show us your portfolio. Otherwise, you're nothing but bullshit. Of course, he got pissed at my comment. But again, for me....I think it's all bullshit digital currency that has no real-world commercial value. A $100 dollar bill in my pocket has far more value than a number on a screen that you can't deposit into cash.....
No one in their right mind would put their portfolio out there for the world to see. I have spoken to my cpa about btc a few years ago to see what the tax consequences would be. He told me about a client that had netted $250k with btc and would have to pay the taxes on that capital gain (long term). Names were not mentioned of course, so why would you expect others to post on this or any forum?
Profits have been made and lost on btc. If you don't want to invest in it, that's your right. For me, it's an interesting play against the $ should I decide to pursue it.
From the news this morning “ India is in this process of banning Bitcoin along with other crypto currency including the mining thereof”.
Quick search verification is available from multiple sources
seekingalpha.com
Quick search verification is available from multiple sources
Bitcoin pulls back on report of India ban
A senior Indian official tells Reuters the government is set to propose a law making it illegal to mine, trade, or even hold private cryptocurrencies.The bill would reportedly give...
seekingalpha.com
How would they ban it?
Its just now being acknowledged. The whole point was it was discreet and anonymous.
I think the challenge will be the different crypto fighting for space as countries and others roll out.
There is no link between Bitcoin and inflation known, so basically no one knows, and if someone tells you they do they are trying to sell you something.
That being said have a diversified portfolioand there is nothing wrong with putting a few percentage points (1-5%) into bitcoin as long as you understand the risk of losing it all.
Depending on your age most of your money should be in large cheap market mirroring ETFs like VOO, VTI, SCHB etc...however having a little bit of play money to take huge risks is OK assuming the rest of the money has negated all your diversifiable risk(Firm-specific risk, unsystematic risk)
The best place to hedge inflation is the S&P 500(or stocks in general)it’s outperformed gold and everything else over time.....so far but who knows...pick up “Fooled by Randomness” by Nassim Taleb, give it a read then invest
The wallets are all exposed (and all transaction history), and you need both on ramps and off ramps unless you plan to hold forever or trade for something you can touch with your hands.
Its actually more transparent than traditional banking, where the institutions don't share information with each other, or there are legal entities formed in foreign jurisdictions with no books and records.
Sorry I did phrase that in a general way and when I see it that was not my meaning. Well it was but the context was not correct At ALL.. my brain at times moves faster than fingers
This is true, but proving ownership of a wallet is what's difficult, if a government wanted to tax your crypto. There's TornadoCash or Monero if you want to make private payments. Decentralized exchanges also make it possible to change currencies without any KYC information.
There's a lot happening in the crypto space (outside of cryptocurrencies) and I think the potential of decentralized networks isn't fully understood.
I suggest this video if you want to learn more about the significance of bitcoin:
I haven't tried versus.
I do both.
Also...
www.reuters.com
I do both.
Also...
Police seize $60 million of bitcoin! Now, where's the password?
German prosecutors have confiscated more than 50 million euros ($60 million) worth of bitcoin from a fraudster. There's only one problem: they can't unlock the money because he won't give them the password.
www.reuters.com
It can be banned as I recently read that India prohibits bitcoin and crypto currency. Blockchain provides the ledger which is public, so it's tough to cover up your profits from what I've read.
I've also learned that you have to provide a lot of i.d. in order to utilize the system.
so realize that it is more of you out there on the internet. I see where a country could easily shut it down by just shutting down the internet and preventing transactions.
Still will be interesting to see how it does under hyperinflation, and I wonder if they use it in places like Zimbabwe, Venezuela, and Argentina now. Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world, yet the hyperinflation is approaching that of Zimbabwe. Rather amazing and ironic.
I've also learned that you have to provide a lot of i.d. in order to utilize the system.
so realize that it is more of you out there on the internet. I see where a country could easily shut it down by just shutting down the internet and preventing transactions.
Still will be interesting to see how it does under hyperinflation, and I wonder if they use it in places like Zimbabwe, Venezuela, and Argentina now. Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world, yet the hyperinflation is approaching that of Zimbabwe. Rather amazing and ironic.
I haven't tried versus.
I do both.
Also...
Police seize $60 million of bitcoin! Now, where's the password?
German prosecutors have confiscated more than 50 million euros ($60 million) worth of bitcoin from a fraudster. There's only one problem: they can't unlock the money because he won't give them the password.
That's the only true reason to use it.
I bought some when it crashed from $800 to $120. Sold it when it jumped back up to $1k. I sure wish I had those 10 coins right now, but it's all speculative and I'm not a good gambler.
Yes. Even if he never gets access to his crypto again, at least the government doesn't get it either.
And that raises another interesting question. What happens to the lost, forgotten, and inaccessible crypto out there?
www.cnn.com
And that raises another interesting question. What happens to the lost, forgotten, and inaccessible crypto out there?
Man who accidentally threw out a bitcoin fortune offers $70 million for permission to dig it up | CNN
A British man who accidentally threw a hard drive loaded with bitcoin into the trash has offered the local authority where he lives more than $70 million if it allows him to excavate a landfill site.
www.cnn.com
Yes. Even if he never gets access to his crypto again, at least the government doesn't get it either.
And that raises another interesting question. What happens to the lost, forgotten, and inaccessible crypto out there?
Man who accidentally threw out a bitcoin fortune offers $70 million for permission to dig it up | CNN
A British man who accidentally threw a hard drive loaded with bitcoin into the trash has offered the local authority where he lives more than $70 million if it allows him to excavate a landfill site.
Whoever gets their functional quantum computer working first can probably get it...
My bet is on the NSA one day quietly emptying out wallets that people lost access to and forgot about.
