Anything better for me than a 6.5 Grendel in the AR-15 platform?

[Jazz30-06]

Hello all,

I currently have a 16" 5.56 upper that I run an LPVO on. I am looking for something to get me a bit more mid-range capability (SPR). I currently have the 5.56 and a 6.5 Creed for calibers. I'd like to keep the barrel down to 18" if possible and will also eventually be shooting suppressed. No, I'm not expecting a quiet rifle, just tossing that out there if is relevant to cartridge selection. I kind of like the 6.5G because there is SOME bullet overlap with my Creed once I get set up to reload and I have shot one before that was really enjoyable. Beyond that, I've got basically nothing that ties me to that cartridge. My theoretical lineup is as follows:

0-400 AR-15 in 5.56
300-800 AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel (Or other)
600-1000 24" Bolt gun in 6.5 Creed

So, the fundamental question I would like an answer to is, am I on the right track with the Grendel, or should I be looking elsewhere?

Thanks!

 

[wvfarrier]

What about 6mm ARC?

 

[Baron85]

Do you shoot bullets lighter than 140 in your creed? If not, the fact that the Grendel is a 6.5 doesn’t really matter. I would go Grendel since it seems to have more support currently.

 

[Jazz30-06]

Do you shoot bullets lighter than 140 in your creed? If not, the fact that the Grendel is a 6.5 doesn’t really matter. I would go Grendel since it seems to have more support currently.

For now, I have only been shooting factory loads, which happen to be the White Tail 129s. Yes, I know those aren't great for long-range, but I haven't really been in the long-range game yet. I don't actually know what I will be shooting when I get into reloading, to be honest. Noted on the vote for Grendel though, thanks.

 

[Jazz30-06]

What about 6mm ARC?

It's definitely on the radar. I think my biggest concern there is parts and ammo availability. Also, and I forgot to mention this earlier, I would LIKE to be able to go take hogs at some point and I would be concerned about the smaller bullet's capabilities. I know the math says the 6mm has a higher SD and so it should penetrate better, but there is always something to be said for the size of hole you are creating in the first place. Kind of like the 9mm vs 45 argument...

 

[FuhQ]

6.5 Grendel all day long.

 

[hlee]

Neither the 6.5 grendel nor the 6 ARC are readily available around here. But, of the two, 6.5 grendel pops up more often. The ARC may have a slight edge in trajectory. The 6.5 grendel may have an edge in KE on target. Personally, I think they are close enough that it comes down to ammunition availability. I have 2 grendels and no ARCs, but I bought into the grendel before the ARC was a thing. Looking back, and at ammo availability, I made the right decision for my circumstances. I do reload, but is sure is some piece of mind that factory ammo is occasional available. I've read that 6 ARC ammunition is pretty common in other parts of the country. That could skew the algebra for some...

 

[Jmccracken1214]

I’m also wanting a grendel for mid range. I’ve had 5-6 of them over the years, AR’s and Ruger bolt guns.

Kind of wanting another Ruger ranch in grendel since I have a bunch of 8208

 

[diggler1833]

I have a 6.5 Grendel, a 6.5 Creed, and a 6.5x47L with a second being put together.

There are quite a few good bullets for reloading that will work great across those three cartridges. 123 Scenar, SMK, Custom Comp, ELD-M, 120 Scenar L, ELD-M, Match Burner etc... Even the 107 TMK or 108 Scenar can work well in the medium-sized 6.5s.

That's in addition to good hunting bullets like the 110-120 Barnes stuff, 120 Nosler BT, 123 SST, 129 SST and Nosler ABLR etc...

Aside from having a .243 once, I've stayed away from that diameter - not that it isn't good - just that the .264 stuff is close enough, and I'm heavily invested in that.

 

[FuhQ]

I have a 6.5 Grendel, a 6.5 Creed, and a 6.5x47L with a second being put together.

There are quite a few good bullets for reloading that will work great across those three cartridges. 123 Scenar, SMK, Custom Comp, ELD-M, 120 Scenar L, ELD-M, Match Burner etc... Even the 107 TMK or 108 Scenar can work well in the medium-sized 6.5s.

That's in addition to good hunting bullets like the 110-120 Barnes stuff, 120 Nosler BT, 123 SST, 129 SST and Nosler ABLR etc...

Aside from having a .243 once, I've stayed away from that diameter - not that it isn't good - just that the .264 stuff is close enough, and I'm heavily invested in that.

I'm the same way... I have no need for a .243 diameter anything... I like my 1/4-bores, and that's the smallest I need for centerfire for a medium-distance cartridge.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

In 6.5G I have an 18" rifle, 12.5" SBR and 22" ruger bolt gun. I like the Grendel over the ARC if you do not reload for two reasons: first, is the wolf plinking ammo and second is greater availability of brass case target and hunting ammo at lower prices.

If you reload and can find brass it does not really matter. I reload and am able to pick up free grendel brass at the range from time to time, 6mm ARC is rare by comparison.

 

[cas6969]

 

[bobke]

Going to agree with Diggler around range of bullets available for Grendel that cross over to Creedmoor very well, to those willing to work with something other than 140gr. That, and if you’re intent on handloading in the future, the economies of sticking with one caliber ease the supply chain issues we’re all fighting. I got out of 308 to focus on feeding 6.5G, 6.5x47 and 6.5CM, with some thoughts to building a PRC. All that, and Grendel seems to punch a bit above its weight class when game is in sight.

 

[hlee]

Is anyone else having trouble connecting Sigourny Weaver with the text in this picture?

Aliens
"Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

 

[Rudy Gonsior]

Honestly save yourself the trouble, a good match 16-18” 5.56 with a solid rail, good trigger and a nice piece of glass will fill the gap with the 6.5 cm so long as you feed it good quality ammo.

I see probably several hundred students a year for precision rifle and SPR stuff. The guys running 5.56 hang solid out to 600 with the 6-6.5mm ARs.

The guys running the 6-6.5mm struggle with reliability. 6 years teaching on the CIV side and I have yet to see a Grendel (or 6 ARC) make through a weekend without choking.

I know everyone says “It runs fine!” but that’s literally what they all say, so I’ll warn you the path to reliability is a narrow one and your chances of having to play games is high to get it running right…and all for a notable but slight gain in performance.

 

[Crews]

Agreed with I personally have not been impressed with reliability of the AR platform chambered in Grendel. And yes, that includes with all different types of mags (including E-Landers)

 

[hlee]

Agreed with I personally have not been impressed with reliability of the AR platform chambered in Grendel. And yes, that includes with all different types of mags (including E-Landers)

Ugh, E-landers are undoubtedly THE WORST. Mags are definitely the achilles heel of the 6.5 grendel platform. Find mags that work in your rifle and buy a bunch. Then test all of them. "Hi cap" mags are way more problematic than 10 rounders. ASC have been the best in my guns, but others have reported good results with other brands. E-landers choke if you say "dust" around them too loudly.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Agreed with I personally have not been impressed with reliability of the AR platform chambered in Grendel. And yes, that includes with all different types of mags (including E-Landers)

It is very rare to see feeding issues with the magazines that hold 17 rounds or less. The 24 round E-landers have different generations of followers and the newer ones have been very reliable in my two premium AR builds.

 

[Crews]

Hard use, dusty conditions, suppressed… I haven’t seen a single one I’d count on. May not be an issue on a square range.

 

[hlee]

Hard use, dusty conditions, suppressed… I haven’t seen a single one I’d count on. May not be an issue on a square range.

I had 3 malfs on one stage of a local PRS match due to a dusty and balky Elander mag. Still finished the stage under time and clean, but it was a dumpster fire, and a generous 2 min par time.

Luckily I had a few ASC 10 rounders in the bag as well. Changing out the mags and everything has been good since. Not a HUGE amount of shooting, but several hundred rounds across 1/2 dozen comps, 2 shooters, and a couple of different rifles, both suppressed and not (even a very dusty "run and gun").

My experience has also shown that polymer tipped bullets tend to be an issue. I have had a few ELD-M tips break as they are being fed into the chamber. The worst of them had the poly tip fall within the locking recess of the barrel extension, preventing the gun from going into battery. While I suppose it could happen to any gun, I think the feed angle of the 6.5 grendel makes it more prone than on a 223/5.56. While I still have some ELD-Ms in inventory, I am switching to BTHPs.

The above notwithstanding, in a SHTF WROL TEOTWAWKI situation, I would reach for a 5.56 carbine. But, the OP says that he has the 5.56 covered and is looking to span the gap between 5.56 and 6.5 CM. The 6.5 grendel does that very well- even if you have to test the rifle/mags/ammunition to insure reliability, like everyone should be doing anyway...

 

[Gtscotty]

To be fair, my Grendel is a shorter range hunting AR, and my current ARC is set up for longer range, but I've been more impressed with the ARC, and I'm building another light/shortish one for hunting. There are a lot of bullets that can be loaded in the Grendel, but a smaller subset that are well suited to the velocities it can produce, especially for hunting once you get out a few hundred yards. The ARC will put a wide range of 6mm bullets out at more optimal velocities.

Grendel might be a step up if closer range hog hunting is the main focus, but for longer range, steel, targets, etc, the ARC is by far my preference.

That said, anything with a decent bullet is likely to satisfy you if you've been mostly shooting the 129gr IL, that is one of the few bullets I've had shoot well close up, then totally fall apart accuracy-wise within 300yds.

I've been shooting ASC and Duramags in both, and haven't had any reliability issues, but I pretty much always use 20rd and smaller for prone shooting or hunting.

 

[MadDuner]

I took my 6.5 Grendel out for it's maiden sighting in trip. All went as expected. Zero issues. Only shot it to 300yds though, so I have no clue what it'll act like at the other end of it's capabilities. I used C-Products 20-round 7.62x39 mags for this initial trip, and all was well with them. No issues at all. I don't think I'll bother buying the Grendel mags. These work just fine.

 

[Peterpan]

i think a 6mm grendel would be the way to go. 6mm is a better fit to the grendel brass in my opinion. no fireforming. just neck down the 6.5 grendel brass and go for it.

the 6mm Arc is just another hornady reinvention of the wheel. although they are the only ones smart enough to get their cartridge sammi ed.

 

[VandelayIndustries]

Why not try a heavier bullet with your 5.56? That should get you to 600 then your 6.5 creed can take it from there.

 

[Vynz]

If you're going to try to make sense of the 6ARC you're going to end up with a 22 Grendel. For targets thats where the performance is. I feed those out of .223 PMAGs with zero issues and the Grendel case actually has the gas to push 75's and 88's at a competitive speed. 3000fps from a 22" barrel with 75gr ELDMs.

Just curious, how does 22 grendel compare against 224Valk in those grain weights?

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Honestly save yourself the trouble, a good match 16-18” 5.56 with a solid rail, good trigger and a nice piece of glass will fill the gap with the 6.5 cm so long as you feed it good quality ammo.

I see probably several hundred students a year for precision rifle and SPR stuff. The guys running 5.56 hang solid out to 600 with the 6-6.5mm ARs.

The guys running the 6-6.5mm struggle with reliability. 6 years teaching on the CIV side and I have yet to see a Grendel (or 6 ARC) make through a weekend without choking.

I know everyone says “It runs fine!” but that’s literally what they all say, so I’ll warn you the path to reliability is a narrow one and your chances of having to play games is high to get it running right…and all for a notable but slight gain in performance.

That’s why I prefer them in the bolt gun. My AR Grendel’s weren’t super unreliable, but I did have a mag related issue from time to time with 10 rounders.

 

[hlee]

Just curious, how does 22 grendel compare against 224Valk in those grain weights?

They are super close- like 260rem vs 6.5 CM close. Rumor is that the valkyrie case can handle more pressure- and the bolt design is stronger. The Grendel case is set up better for long bullets. I have a 224 predator (224 Grendel), because I am already set up to load for the 6.5 Grendel, and it is a single press operation to neck Grendel brass down to 224 predator. I would not overthink choosing between the two...

 

[hlee]

Seriously? I'm pretty sure a Valk is 200fps slower

Maybe at max charge. But, I can only get 2760 fps (26.7 gr CFE 223 and 88 ELD-M) before I start blowing up bullets in my 224 predator. And, at max charge you'll be trashing brass in just a few reloads. And, like I said above, the valkyrie bolt has more meat on it, so it can handle more pressure before it gets trashed.

(Hornady lists the max charge for the 223 valkyrie at 26 gr CFE 223 behind an 88 gr ELD-M at 2750 fps.)

I have documented 3063 fps (average of 5 shots) at 30 grains CFE 223 behind a 75 gr ELD-M, but the accuracy wasn't there over any load for this bullet from my barrel (20" 224 pred from ARP, melonited, 3R). This was the heaviest charge that I tested and I don't have any notes about pressure signs- strongly suggests that none were observed.

I should probably redo the test now that more bullets have gone down the barrel, but I wasn't that impressed on the first go around. The meager data that I have suggests that there might be a place to play at ~2850-2900 fps, but I haven't really explored it yet.

I have also documented 3053 fps (average of 3 shots) at 30.2 gr CFE 223 behind an 88 grain ELD-M. That pierced a primer on one of the shots and testing was stopped there.

So, because you can load the valkyrie hotter, it and the 224 Grendel (predator) are so close as to be a toss up.

If it matters, the 224 Grendel is a reloaders-only cartridge, while there is some factory ammunition for the 224 valkyrie (sometimes in some places).

 

[hlee]

I think you might be making your conclusion from a sample size of one. I can do just over 2850 with an 88 without trashing brass. And 3K with a 75. I added a JP VMOS and throated the barrel out a little and that helped significantly. I also have a suppressed 22" barrel. I don't think Valks can do that

Definitely a sample size of 1, and I haven't shot it extensively. It might speed up with more rounds. And, the propensity to blow up bullets at high speed may go down with some burnishing of the rifling. And, and, as I wrote above, I haven't played significantly with the 75 gr class of bullets.

There are a lot of things that all occurred around the same time that conspired to put this project on the back burner.

What is your barrel twist? I probably overdid it with a 1-6.5" rifling in mine.

While I reload, I am not in love with reloading. Factory ammunition availability weighs in the calculus that I do when comparing cartridges.

For someone that does not reload, and is not looking to get into reloading, the 224 Grendel isn't even in the discussion. So, 224 valk, 6 ARC, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC. The only one on this list that I have seen available in my area in the past 2 months is 6.5 Grendel.

 

[ut755ln]

It's definitely on the radar. I think my biggest concern there is parts and ammo availability. Also, and I forgot to mention this earlier, I would LIKE to be able to go take hogs at some point and I would be concerned about the smaller bullet's capabilities. I know the math says the 6mm has a higher SD and so it should penetrate better, but there is always something to be said for the size of hole you are creating in the first place. Kind of like the 9mm vs 45 argument...

I clobber hogs up with 556, 6ARC would destroy them.

 

[Jazz30-06]

Neither the 6.5 grendel nor the 6 ARC are readily available around here. But, of the two, 6.5 grendel pops up more often. The ARC may have a slight edge in trajectory. The 6.5 grendel may have an edge in KE on target. Personally, I think they are close enough that it comes down to ammunition availability. I have 2 grendels and no ARCs, but I bought into the grendel before the ARC was a thing. Looking back, and at ammo availability, I made the right decision for my circumstances. I do reload, but is sure is some piece of mind that factory ammo is occasional available. I've read that 6 ARC ammunition is pretty common in other parts of the country. That could skew the algebra for some...

I've been using AmmoSeek as my ruler for ammo availability. 6.5G isn't cheap, but it's on there. I think there were only two options for sale for 6 ARC the last time I looked.

I have a 6.5 Grendel, a 6.5 Creed, and a 6.5x47L with a second being put together.

There are quite a few good bullets for reloading that will work great across those three cartridges. 123 Scenar, SMK, Custom Comp, ELD-M, 120 Scenar L, ELD-M, Match Burner etc... Even the 107 TMK or 108 Scenar can work well in the medium-sized 6.5s.

That's in addition to good hunting bullets like the 110-120 Barnes stuff, 120 Nosler BT, 123 SST, 129 SST and Nosler ABLR etc...

Aside from having a .243 once, I've stayed away from that diameter - not that it isn't good - just that the .264 stuff is close enough, and I'm heavily invested in that.

This is pretty much the exact thought process I've had. I could run the gamut of basically all of the .264 bullets with two chamberings.

Sidenote: A .243 was actually my first rifle.

In 6.5G I have an 18" rifle, 12.5" SBR and 22" ruger bolt gun. I like the Grendel over the ARC if you do not reload for two reasons: first, is the wolf plinking ammo and second is greater availability of brass case target and hunting ammo at lower prices.

If you reload and can find brass it does not really matter. I reload and am able to pick up free grendel brass at the range from time to time, 6mm ARC is rare by comparison.

With the shutdown of russian imports, is wolf even available anymore?

 

[hlee]

I've been using AmmoSeek as my ruler for ammo availability. 6.5G isn't cheap, but it's on there. I think there were only two options for sale for 6 ARC the last time I looked.

This is pretty much the exact thought process I've had. I could run the gamut of basically all of the .264 bullets with two chamberings.

Sidenote: A .243 was actually my first rifle.

With the shutdown of russian imports, is wolf even available anymore?

How often do you search ammoseek?

 

[Jazz30-06]

Honestly save yourself the trouble, a good match 16-18” 5.56 with a solid rail, good trigger and a nice piece of glass will fill the gap with the 6.5 cm so long as you feed it good quality ammo.

I see probably several hundred students a year for precision rifle and SPR stuff. The guys running 5.56 hang solid out to 600 with the 6-6.5mm ARs.

The guys running the 6-6.5mm struggle with reliability. 6 years teaching on the CIV side and I have yet to see a Grendel (or 6 ARC) make through a weekend without choking.

I know everyone says “It runs fine!” but that’s literally what they all say, so I’ll warn you the path to reliability is a narrow one and your chances of having to play games is high to get it running right…and all for a notable but slight gain in performance.

If I was only ever wanting to ring steel, I'd go 18" and shoot 77s. It just comes up way short on energy downrange when compared to the Grendel or the ARC. The comments on reliability are interesting though. I've only ever shot the one and that guy loved his, but I only have that single datapoint which is, statistically, irrelevant.

I had 3 malfs on one stage of a local PRS match due to a dusty and balky Elander mag. Still finished the stage under time and clean, but it was a dumpster fire, and a generous 2 min par time.

Luckily I had a few ASC 10 rounders in the bag as well. Changing out the mags and everything has been good since. Not a HUGE amount of shooting, but several hundred rounds across 1/2 dozen comps, 2 shooters, and a couple of different rifles, both suppressed and not (even a very dusty "run and gun").

My experience has also shown that polymer tipped bullets tend to be an issue. I have had a few ELD-M tips break as they are being fed into the chamber. The worst of them had the poly tip fall within the locking recess of the barrel extension, preventing the gun from going into battery. While I suppose it could happen to any gun, I think the feed angle of the 6.5 grendel makes it more prone than on a 223/5.56. While I still have some ELD-Ms in inventory, I am switching to BTHPs.

The above notwithstanding, in a SHTF WROL TEOTWAWKI situation, I would reach for a 5.56 carbine. But, the OP says that he has the 5.56 covered and is looking to span the gap between 5.56 and 6.5 CM. The 6.5 grendel does that very well- even if you have to test the rifle/mags/ammunition to insure reliability, like everyone should be doing anyway...

I've certainly read that mags can be iffy. Polymer tips causing issues is interesting though. Have you by any chance done slow and controlled feeds to see the tips catching on the barrel extension?

To be fair, my Grendel is a shorter range hunting AR, and my current ARC is set up for longer range, but I've more impressed with the ARC, and I'm building another light/shortish one for hunting. There are a lot of bullets that can be loaded in the Grendel, but a smaller subset that are well suited to the velocities it can produce, especially for hunting once you get out a few hundred yards. The ARC will put a wide range of 6mm bullets out at more optional velocities.

Grendel might be a step up if closer range hog hunting is the main focus, but for longer range, steel, targets, etc, the ARC is by far my preference.

That said, anything with a decent bullet is likely to satisfy you if you've been mostly shooting the 129gr IL, that is one of the few bullets I've had shoot well close up, then totally fall apart accuracy-wise within 300yds.

I've been shooting ASC and Duramags in both, and haven't had any reliability issues, but I pretty much always use 20rd and smaller for prone shooting or hunting.

I've certainly not been impressed with the 129s, but it was all that I could find for a while and I've only shot out to a decent distance (550yds) one time. While I have shot sub MOA groups with my rifle at 100yds, I never managed to hit a 10" plate at that 550 and was disappointed with my own rifle while being simultaneously extremely impressed with the Grendel I shot that day, having pinged steel with every trigger pull. Probably the most expensive shooting experience I've ever had, since it sent me down the Grendel and suppressed rabbit hole, haha.

Why not try a heavier bullet with your 5.56? That should get you to 600 then your 6.5 creed can take it from there.

Lack of glass for distance is the biggest part of it. Plus, while I did build the 5.56 with a criterion barrel, it is a chrome-lined barrel, so I'm not expecting the same level of accuracy (per the reading I've done), but I've never been able to take it to a longer range to see how it holds up.

I clobber hogs up with 556, 6ARC would destroy them.

Fair enough, thanks for the data point.

 

[Jazz30-06]

How often do you search ammoseek?

View attachment 7924650

Just on occasion. ARC is what I wasn't finding though. I haven't really looked for Grendel in a while, since I've known it's available.

 

[hlee]

If I was only ever wanting to ring steel, I'd go 18" and shoot 77s. It just comes up way short on energy downrange when compared to the Grendel or the ARC. The comments on reliability are interesting though. I've only ever shot the one and that guy loved his, but I only have that single datapoint which is, statistically, irrelevant.

I've certainly read that mags can be iffy. Polymer tips causing issues is interesting though. Have you by any chance done slow and controlled feeds to see the tips catching on the barrel extension?

I've certainly not been impressed with the 129s, but it was all that I could find for a while and I've only shot out to a decent distance (550yds) one time. While I have shot sub MOA groups with my rifle at 100yds, I never managed to hit a 10" plate at that 550 and was disappointed with my own rifle while being simultaneously extremely impressed with the Grendel I shot that day, having pinged steel with every trigger pull. Probably the most expensive shooting experience I've ever had, since it sent me down the Grendel and suppressed rabbit hole, haha.

Lack of glass for distance is the biggest part of it. Plus, while I did build the 5.56 with a criterion barrel, it is a chrome-lined barrel, so I'm not expecting the same level of accuracy (per the reading I've done), but I've never been able to take it to a longer range to see how it holds up.

Fair enough, thanks for the data point.

The tips shearing off has only happened 3 or 4 times in maybe 1000 rounds. But that is 3 or 4 times more than I have seen in 308 win or 223/5.56. No I haven’t fond any slow controlled feeding. That’s not how the gun operates…

As a civilian and a recreational shooter, the 6.5 Grendel is my favorite rifle. Neither the rifle nor the cartridge are what hold me back from scoring well in PRS comps. While the rifle is a bit heavy, it leaves no doubt when it smacks steel set out for ‘run and gun’ comps- which are generally 300y and in. Putting a suppressor on it doesn’t require any changes to the gas setting. It puts a smack down on deer.

Buuuuut, I’d take a 5.56 nato for SHTF…

 

[Jazz30-06]

The tips shearing off has only happened 3 or 4 times in maybe 1000 rounds. But that is 3 or 4 times more than I have seen in 308 win or 223/5.56. No I haven’t fond any slow controlled feeding. That’s not how the gun operates…

As a civilian and a recreational shooter, the 6.5 Grendel is my favorite rifle. Neither the rifle nor the cartridge are what hold me back from scoring well in PRS comps. While the rifle is a bit heavy, it leaves no doubt when it smacks steel set out for ‘run and gun’ comps- which are generally 300y and in. Putting a suppressor on it doesn’t require any changes to the gas setting. It puts a smack down on deer.

Buuuuut, I’d take a 5.56 nato for SHTF…

The question behind the slow feed was to see if there was an obvious mechanical cause behind the failures, e.g., the bullets that are failing are maybe a few thou longer and catching because of it. It's just a troubleshooting question that I am curious to know the answer to.

That's why I built my 5.56 the way I did. I just need better glass on it now to take advantage of the barrel. Not a fan of my gen 1 strike eagle.

 

[supercorndogs]

Going to agree with Diggler around range of bullets available for Grendel that cross over to Creedmoor very well, to those willing to work with something other than 140gr. That, and if you’re intent on handloading in the future, the economies of sticking with one caliber ease the supply chain issues we’re all fighting. I got out of 308 to focus on feeding 6.5G, 6.5x47 and 6.5CM, with some thoughts to building a PRC. All that, and Grendel seems to punch a bit above its weight class when game is in sight.

100-123g bullets work fine in both.

 

[GlockandRoll]

You wont regret a grendel. I've shot them for nearly 20 years and have had great luck with them.
Just get a good bbl and type2 bolt and good mags. I recommend Amend2 or Elander and stay away from ACS mags.

I currently run a 20' sheepdog gun works 5r match grad bbl with an H3 buffer and a magy PRS stock with a JP trigger and PSG1 grip with a YHM can and Wilson adj gas system and have had people giggle shooting sub-MOA in relatively rapid fire at 500 and 750 yards on steel. I've actually pulled off 2.6" in the wind at 500 yards with factory 123 grn hornys.

Here's my girl.

 

[Lyle2231]

i think a 6mm grendel would be the way to go. 6mm is a better fit to the grendel brass in my opinion. no fireforming. just neck down the 6.5 grendel brass and go for it.

the 6mm Arc is just another hornady reinvention of the wheel. although they are the only ones smart enough to get their cartridge sammi ed.

White Oak has the 6 WOA , 6.8SPC necked down to 6mm. Phenomenal round!
It is a close competitor to the 6ARC. IMHO a better choice.

 

[GlockandRoll]

I dont have a lot of experience with the 6mm ARC, but I think if you look at ammo availability, and bullets for hunting, the Grendel wins.

For example, at 400 yards, the gren is only about 2" under the ARC and it's still supersonic at 1K from a good bbl. He's also looking at 18", and not 22-24 where the ARC will really shine.

The ammo availability and luck I've had with factory-loaded ammo of the gren is why I love it.

My friend took his 1st deer in Austin with his gren, at over 225 yards. A nice 10 pit with a horny SST. Anchored him. I was impressed.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I've got a Grendel, a 6mm Grendel (basically 6ARC) plenty of 300BO experience and a pile of 5.56's. I don't think there is a best AR cartridge. They each have a reason to exist, and their own strengths and weaknesses. That said, 5.56 can do a lot more than most people give it credit for.

 

[hlee]

Ugh, E-landers are undoubtedly THE WORST. Mags are definitely the achilles heel of the 6.5 grendel platform. Find mags that work in your rifle and buy a bunch. Then test all of them. "Hi cap" mags are way more problematic than 10 rounders. ASC have been the best in my guns, but others have reported good results with other brands. E-landers choke if you say "dust" around them too loudly.

You wont regret a grendel. I've shot them for nearly 20 years and have had great luck with them.
Just get a good bbl and type2 bolt and good mags. I recommend Amend2 or Elander and stay away from ACS mags.

I currently run a 20' sheepdog gun works 5r match grad bbl with an H3 buffer and a magy PRS stock with a JP trigger and PSG1 grip with a YHM can and Wilson adj gas system and have had people giggle shooting sub-MOA in relatively rapid fire at 500 and 750 yards on steel. I've actually pulled off 2.6" in the wind at 500 yards with factory 123 grn hornys.

Here's my girl.
View attachment 7926189

And, here, is the greatest "issue" with the Grendel cartridges. Mags are a crap shoot. Some people have great success with one brand. Some others have terrible experiences with the same magazines. The only real answer is to try them all and let your gun figure it out.

That, and Elander (and AA branded Elander) 6.5 Grendel mags suck sweaty goat balls. Fuck them...

 

[Jazz30-06]

White Oak has the 6 WOA , 6.8SPC necked down to 6mm. Phenomenal round!
It is a close competitor to the 6ARC. IMHO a better choice.

I can't reload right now, so I'm looking for something with SOME factory availability. That's actually the biggest downfall to the ARC IMO.

 

[Jazz30-06]

I dont have a lot of experience with the 6mm ARC, but I think if you look at ammo availability, and bullets for hunting, the Grendel wins.

For example, at 400 yards, the gren is only about 2" under the ARC and it's still supersonic at 1K from a good bbl. He's also looking at 18", and not 22-24 where the ARC will really shine.

The ammo availability and luck I've had with factory-loaded ammo of the gren is why I love it.

My friend took his 1st deer in Austin with his gren, at over 225 yards. A nice 10 pit with a horny SST. Anchored him. I was impressed.

What round are you seeing sustaining supersonic from a Grendel at 1k?

I've got a Grendel, a 6mm Grendel (basically 6ARC) plenty of 300BO experience and a pile of 5.56's. I don't think there is a best AR cartridge. They each have a reason to exist, and their own strengths and weaknesses. That said, 5.56 can do a lot more than most people give it credit for.

Yeah, I know 5.56 can do quite a lot. I just have an extra upper that I really want to pick up some range with. I have zero plans of doing any sort of real close shooting that my 5.56 can't already handle, so range seems to be the better option for me.

 

[Yondering]

I dont have a lot of experience with the 6mm ARC, but I think if you look at ammo availability, and bullets for hunting, the Grendel wins.

For example, at 400 yards, the gren is only about 2" under the ARC and it's still supersonic at 1K from a good bbl. He's also looking at 18", and not 22-24 where the ARC will really shine.

The ammo availability and luck I've had with factory-loaded ammo of the gren is why I love it.

My friend took his 1st deer in Austin with his gren, at over 225 yards. A nice 10 pit with a horny SST. Anchored him. I was impressed.

Some of you guys are a little confused about the actual differences in ballistics between the 6.5 Grendel and 6 ARC/Grendel. Try comparing apples to apples loads and they’re quite a bit different with a big trajectory and wind advantage to the 6mm.

I do own and shoot both, and the 6mm is easily superior for target shooting. With similar good handloads, my closest comparisons are the 6.5’s .495 G1 b.c. @ 2550 or a 6mm .530 @ 2750 in the longer barrels, or 2310 fps vs 2450 fps with those same bullets in the 12.5” barrels. Do the math.

BTW anyone who says the 6mm version needs a long barrel to be good is talking out of their keister, without even bothering to read up on it much less have actual experience.

 

[Yondering]

White Oak has the 6 WOA , 6.8SPC necked down to 6mm. Phenomenal round!
It is a close competitor to the 6ARC. IMHO a better choice.

Woohoo, the worst of both worlds. So much fun to shoot a round without enough space in the mag for long bullets.

 

[Yondering]

i think a 6mm grendel would be the way to go. 6mm is a better fit to the grendel brass in my opinion. no fireforming. just neck down the 6.5 grendel brass and go for it.

the 6mm Arc is just another hornady reinvention of the wheel. although they are the only ones smart enough to get their cartridge sammi ed.

The 6mm Grendel variants have always been the way to go. But the difference between them and the ARC is just the shoulder being pushed back .030”. Not enough to matter much, and for someone starting fresh it only makes sense to go with the standardized round.

There is no fireforming required for any of these, to be clear. You can form a 6.5 Grendel case to 6 ARC just as easily as to 6 Grendel; just a single pass through the sizing die, trim, and it’s done for either one.

One more thing (not part of the reply above) - ignore the people claiming to use Pmags or other 5.56 mags for any Grendel/ARC based round. That only works for a few rounds in the mag; more than that and the mag jams up. Don’t believe me, try it yourself, we all have Pmags floating around. You will want to buy Grendel-appropriate mags, but those and the bolt are the only non-standard components needed, other than the barrel.

But - most 6.8 mags do work fine, so there are more options than it appears. For example I’m using some PRI 6.8 waffle mags in my Grendel stash, and they’re one of the best type I have. And with ASC, I have some of each and am hard pressed to tell a difference other than the follower color. FWIW

 

[Dough300]

Another vote for 6.5 Grendel.

 

[towerofpower93]

And, here, is the greatest "issue" with the Grendel cartridges. Mags are a crap shoot. Some people have great success with one brand. Some others have terrible experiences with the same magazines. The only real answer is to try them all and let your gun figure it out.

That, and Elander (and AA branded Elander) 6.5 Grendel mags suck sweaty goat balls. Fuck them...

My findings as well, haha. Tried to get 6 of their 24rd mags working in my suppressed 18" 6.5G and could not get through a mag without multiple failures to feed.

Tried my old 29 or 30rd 7.62x39 ASC mags (pretty sure they're the original/first gen ASC before they got bought and sold/rebranded a few times) and have not had an issue since.

These ASC mags have been used with a suppressed 7" 7.62x39 upper in full auto and are dirty as fuck, but they just keep on chugging along.

If Barret has cracked the code on the Grendel mag for their 6ARC it could certainly give the entire G-based cartridge family a boost.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

If target shooting at long distance, yes, 6mm is 10% better than 6.5mm.
If hunting Coyotes the 6mm is 10% better than 6.5mm. (Flatter shooting)
If hunting deer 6.5mm is 10% better than 6mm. (Energy on target)
I would not attempt anything bigger than whitetail with a 6mm.
For factory ammo availability 6.5mm is 90% better than 6mm.
On most things they are very close, but if OP doesn't reload, what matters is can he feed it and at what cost?