AR-10 Options / Opinions

I

ImperialBlade

Private
Minuteman
Feb 13, 2010
26
0
52
Spring Hill, TN
#1
I am looking to the forum members who have owned or shot the following AR-10 platform rifles. I am looking for a medium to long engagement rifle that will be used with a primary optic matching its capabilities, with an offset for closer targets. This will be used for a SHTF and tactical training scenarios.
So what are the real world opinions of the following rifles. I am not too concerned about cost. At the time of purchase I will be living in Tennessee.

DPMS Panther MK12 - RFLRM12 PTHR MK12 308
Sig Sauer SIG716 Patrol Rifle - R716-16B-P
Patriot Ordnance Factory R308 308WIN 16" T-RAIL NP3 20RD
LMT LM308MWSE 308 MWS Rifle in 7.62mm
LMT 308 Pigman Signature Model MWS LM308MWSP (I know its .308 vs 7.62)
LWRC REPR Rapid Engagement Precision Gas Piston Rifle REPRR7BF16
HK MR762A1 - 7.62x51 Battle Rifle

(If I may have overlooked an AR10 platform rifle please mention it. I have by no means encompassed every known option.)

Thanks for the expertise, shared knowledge and time.
Eric
 
#3
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Joe is a big guy. He could probably hump a GAP10 around just fine in a "SHTF" situation.

I'm only 6', 210 pounds so I would want something a little lighter under that scenario. I have both a GAP10 and a SCAR-17. While the SCAR doesn't hold a candle to the GAP10 in terms of accuracy, I would grab the SCAR first if things got bad and I thought I would be on foot, or in and out of a car.

That said I don't expect to ever be in that situation.
 
#4
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

my m1a is that for me, i have shot enough scar17's that i don't quite have the highest opinion of them. i may get another one again... we'll see. i shoot them every other month.
 
#5
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

Joe,

What muzzle break and stock comes standard on that GAP-10?
Is the optional fluting or breaks worth the extra coin?

Optional breaks
Surefire 7.62SSAL/RE or 338SS Muzzle Brake Installed $255
Badger Ordnance FTE Muzzle Brake Installed $250

optional stock:
Magpul PRS Stock Upgrade. OD, Tan, Black $210
 
#6
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

Everyone has their own idea of what the 'best' is, whether they've handled them all or not.

Based on what I've seen and read, I would choose the GAP-10 as the best impingement AR-10 with the POF being the best piston AR-10. When considering a battle rifle, I would choose the LMT 308MWS.

Why did I choose the three that I did?

<span style="font-weight: bold">GAP-10</span>: nothing really needs to be said. The reputation of G.A. Precision speaks for itself in terms of accuracy, reliability, and service after the sale.

<span style="font-weight: bold">POF P308</span>: in my opinion, POF has the best piston design on the market because the system uses no springs which over time can fail. The addition of the large barrel heat sink also helps dissipate heat.

<span style="font-weight: bold">LMT 308MWS</span>: the LMT is built like a tank with moa accuracy to boot.


This is merely my own personal preference so take it for nothing more. I'm sure others will say I'm nuts and you should pick the DPMS over the POF or only God knows what else. Although I chose the rifles that I did, I would gladly like to have any of those that I didn't mention.

Do your research thoroughly is the best I can advise you.
 
#7
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

After trying a very hIgh end semi precision AR 308, and many, many, AR's in 308.... I now have and will keep an LMT MWS.

Do I want some others? Of course. But I'll be keeping the LMT as my primary... And even with new acquisitions, it'll still be in the safe
smile.gif
 
#8
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

yeah i have a GAP 10 with PRS and surefire breaks, i shot one at PMG fall match last year and fell in love. I have been shooting "high end" mk11's aka m110's for the last 8 years and would take my GAP10 over that POS anyday. the LMT is awesome and exactly like they said built like a tank. Sub moa accuracy out of standard ball is nothing to scoff at. i want one for that simple reason as a battle rifle others have them for the precision roll and have got great results with em.

POF"s customer service is awesome if you want a piston gun i just don't see the use for a precision platform, i am more then happy with my purchase.

the larue OBR is supposed to be a nice gun too, i just support those that support us and GAP supports the sport to a bigger degree then just about any company, they will continue to get my business.
 
#10
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

Take a hint from what the 2011 USASOC Sniper Competition team members used. There were 64 rifles, 58 were gas guns, and 6 were bolt guns. Of the 58 bolt guns 26 were LaRue OBRs and 26 were KAC SR-25/M-110s.
 
#11
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

No because Larue gave a good number of those guys rifles and the m110's are issued. Just cuz military and Leo uses something doesn't make it good
 
#12
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No because Larue game a good number of those guys rifles and the m110's are issued. Just cuz military and Leo uses something doesn't make it good </div></div>
Oh but wait,those rifles are the most expensive so they must be the best.
 
#14
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

Larue seems to be doing a great job with their advertising/promotions. I haven't seen any GAP10's in magazine ads but I've seen several Larues, LWRC, POF, LMT.

I get the feeling GAP is a much smaller shop that gets most business via word of mouth.

Between the two I think the GAP is a better deal mainly because of the initial retail costs and the barrels they use.

If you want a 16" carbine take a good hard look at the LMT.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm only 6', 210 pounds</div></div>

Yeah you're scrawny...

I'm about 5'10 160 and draw the line at a 10lb rifle for carrying around aka hunting.

I see guys on here hunting with a DPMS SASS like I used to have. That thing was a ****ing hog I can't imagine lugging it for miles through the brush.
 
#15
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

I carry a lot, used to it, don't matter if it's 20 pounds. Gap gets business cuz their shit works. There was a gap 10 in weapons for law enforcement a couple months ago. I'm not dissing on the Larue it's supposed to be a nice weapon just don't play into since Leo and mil were using it mean it's awesome. Larue is very good at pushing his stuff. And I have seen more KAC m110 owners sen their gun back or sell it becaue the thing couldn't shoot then any other system even close to as expensive.
 
#16
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Larue is very good at pushing his stuff. And I have seen more KAC m110 owners sen their gun back or sell it becaue the thing couldn't shoot then any other system even close to as expensive. </div></div>

Yeah exactly. Advertising gets market share.

M110's going back that reminds me...a mil friend sent me a bucket of LC LR brass fired from their M110s and about 20% of it is fucked because one M110 has a shoddy chamber lol.
 
#17
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

I'm in the same situation. After doing a lot of research I will be going with a GAP-10, Larue OBR, or the LMT MWS... If money is no object then you shouldn't be looking at anything other than the best
smile.gif
 
#18
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

I agree with Big Joe also. I have had my hands on quite a few of the platforms you mentioned except the SIG 716. The GAP 10 would be my choice. You are getting both quality and an accurate weapons system, and they will take care of you after the sale.
 
#19
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No because Larue gave a good number of those guys rifles and the m110's are issued. Just cuz military and Leo uses something doesn't make it good </div></div>

I have no problem with this posting if it is true, but is it? Any hard evidence or are people guessing?

I know there is a lot of hate for LaRue on this board, I understand Mark piss a number of people off so that makes sense. However, this is a technical board and so if we are realling going to help poster make the right choice, the subjective stuff should be set aside or it just takes away from the quality of the board which would be a shame.
 
#20
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

Agreed, but i do feel past experience with a company's character does play an important role in the OP's decision. I know for a fact the guys at GA are great and will take care of you like a brother. I do not have any experience with Larue so i will not say anything to that effect.
 
#21
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

I think past experience is indeed part of the overall deal, so if that is part of a balanced feedback, it is perfectly legitimate.

My concern is that the feedback is sometime without any basis or support. Look at it this way, the accusation that the reason “LaRue gave a good number of those guns rilfes” is a very serious accusation, not only against LaRue but also to the folks who participated in the competition. Now, at least to me, these are likely folks who are at the top of the heap and who I would respect since they serve and protect us. If they got free rifles, then that is OK, it is only a fact being reported. However, if this was not the case, then this is someone else altogether again.
 
#22
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

Dude I wouldn't say that unless I knew, calm the fuck down. There is a reason it was so prevalent, it's a good gun I take nothing away from it, it has proven to shoot and shoot well like all mark's stuff. They are top of the heap but the other international comp was sponsored by KAC and everyone shot a m110. Does that mean its a good gun? Hell no, half the guys hated it. There are people on this site that might have some insight on what the "top guys" ate shooting and why.
 
#23
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No because Larue gave a good number of those guys rifles and the m110's are issued. Just cuz military and Leo uses something doesn't make it good </div></div>

I have no problem with this posting if it is true, but is it? Any hard evidence or are people guessing?

I know there is a lot of hate for LaRue on this board, I understand Mark piss a number of people off so that makes sense. However, this is a technical board and so if we are realling going to help poster make the right choice, the subjective stuff should be set aside or it just takes away from the quality of the board which would be a shame. </div></div>

I think if anyone on this board would have more "experience" and reliable information regarding the variety of AR platform, BigJoe would probably be in the top 5... Just sayin dude...
 
#24
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

Dude, just asking and making sure....

Like I said, if it is true, then it is OK since you are just reporting a fact.
 
#25
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dude, just asking and making sure....

Like I said, if it is true, then it is OK since you are just reporting a fact. </div></div>

And yet you're still saying if it's true? Lol...

Don't worry Joe... It's ok as long as you only report facts! But if you start making up shit... well then...
 
#27
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

FACT: guys at that level get sponsored to shoot events... weird who woulda known? (sarcasm). if you don't think most top shooters are sponsored and don't pay for stuff you are sadly mistaken.
 
#28
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

I may be well out of line with this question but where on that list would the DPMS SASS line up ?? I wish I could afford the Gap10 or Larue but honestly the $2000 mark was the best I could afford. I've heard and read the SASS is sub-moa capable or did I just waste $1876.

sorry to hijack...
 
#30
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

Trophyhunter,

You'll be allright...$1800+ is about what teh DPMS SASS runs...if everything's allright with your rifle, and you're a competent gas gun shooter, submoa groups with match ammo should be the norm.

At that price point though, i personally would just build my own. I would buy a JP enhanced bolt, and send it off to a topend barrel maker (Brux, Krieger, Bartlein, Mike Rock, etc)to chamber and headspace..that is essentially the crux of AR accuracy...well, that, a good trigger and the nut behind the trigger (most important since no gun shoots itself).

Other components (upper, lower, handguard, stock, gas block, etc)dont really affect accuracy so get what the budget allows...
 
#31
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

Trophy - IMHO the receivers while FUGLY are fine with a DPMS. The barrel while not primo - they typically group well. Where a box stock DPMS falls short is parts and fitment, and fitment goes toward reliability - which can not really be judged by moving the rifle from the car to the bench and back.

That said, the strength of DPMS is that it accepts SR25 style mags and can be upgraded piece by piece as it is standardized.

GAP used to build off of DPMS receivers FWIW.


Good luck
 
#32
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

I understand the concept that the top tier rifles are exactly that, but at being $1000 over what I paid for mine I was thinking worst case scenario I could upgrade slowly to improve accuracy. I'm sure some of the rifles being built here are over the $3000 price range and it would've maybe been "cheaper" to buy one of these rifles.

If the SASS is moa capable on a good day where does the $1000 pay the most benefit ? More ammo, more practice. Or upgrade barrel, upgrade trigger and so on and so forth.

Then the question I ask myself... If I bought a Gap10 or LMT would that make me a better shooter then I would be with a Sass ? I don't consider myself a great shooter or even a top competitive shooter. I punch holes in paper up to 700yds.

please correct me if my thinking is wrong...
 
#34
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trophyhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I may be well out of line with this question but where on that list would the DPMS SASS line up ?? I wish I could afford the Gap10 or Larue but honestly the $2000 mark was the best I could afford. I've heard and read the SASS is sub-moa capable or did I just waste $1876.

sorry to hijack... </div></div>

Mine was super accurate (1" or better with most everything I put into it) and ran 100% with pmags and cproducts. Sold it because it was too heavy for me but honestly wish I'd kept it.
 
#35
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

Trophyhunter,

Not sure if you saw my post, however, if/when you are capable of out-shooting ur DPMS SASS, you can still do what i suggested (buy a bolt & barrel that is chambered & headspaced by a barrel maker) and still come out money ahead than buying the high-end boutique shop stuff.

You are absolutely correct...the extra $1,000 is firmly in the land of diminishing returns...not to take anything away from the other rifles mentioned, but if you can't afford to spend the dough, you cant afford it.

You will also need room in the budget for a decent optic. The $1,000 you just saved will allow you to buy some very good optics (SWFA 5-20 FFP, Viper PST 6-24FFP, just to name a few).
 
#36
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

The GAP, Larue and LMT all have better materials quality and QC than the DPMS. However it is hard to see those sorts of differences on the target unless you are a very good shooter. Most people are not. They will not care if the quad rail on the DPMS isn't as good as a Daniel Defense as long as they can mount a bipod on it. They will not care that the barrel isn't cut rifled as long as they can figure out a handload that shoots an inch or better at 100.

For 99.9% of the shooters out there a DPMS SASS is a fine rifle.

Personally I built my own after selling my SASS and if I can't find the cash to buy a GAP10 in the next few months...I'll just build another. Once you figure them out they aren't difficult.
 
#37
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trophyhunter,

You will also need room in the budget for a decent optic. The $1,000 you just saved will allow you to buy some very good optics (SWFA 5-20 FFP, Viper PST 6-24FFP, just to name a few).</div></div>
I have a USO 3.2-17 mil/mil going on top of it. I was going to buy a different (less money) optic but thought that I could get the most out of the rifle with this optic, while still being able to use it if I upgrade.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I built my own after selling my SASS and if I can't find the cash to buy a GAP10 in the next few months...I'll just build another. Once you figure them out they aren't difficult. </div></div>
I would like to be more efficent to build them with top tier components and not spend top tier money but my skill level hasn't reached that yet. And to be able to pay some of the awesome rifle builders here is a breking point I can't go over.

why can't I will the lottery ?!?!?!
 
#38
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trophyhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trophyhunter,

You will also need room in the budget for a decent optic. The $1,000 you just saved will allow you to buy some very good optics (SWFA 5-20 FFP, Viper PST 6-24FFP, just to name a few).</div></div>
I have a USO 3.2-17 mil/mil going on top of it. I was going to buy a different (less money) optic but thought that I could get the most out of the rifle with this optic, while still being able to use it if I upgrade.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I built my own after selling my SASS and if I can't find the cash to buy a GAP10 in the next few months...I'll just build another. Once you figure them out they aren't difficult. </div></div>
I would like to be more efficent to build them with top tier components and not spend top tier money but my skill level hasn't reached that yet. And to be able to pay some of the awesome rifle builders here is a breking point I can't go over.

why can't I will the lottery ?!?!?! </div></div>

I'm trying to see the logic... You can't afford more than $2K for the rifle but you can afford $2500 for the scope?
 
#40
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trophyhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trophyhunter,

You will also need room in the budget for a decent optic. The $1,000 you just saved will allow you to buy some very good optics (SWFA 5-20 FFP, Viper PST 6-24FFP, just to name a few).</div></div>
I have a USO 3.2-17 mil/mil going on top of it. I was going to buy a different (less money) optic but thought that I could get the most out of the rifle with this optic, while still being able to use it if I upgrade.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I built my own after selling my SASS and if I can't find the cash to buy a GAP10 in the next few months...I'll just build another. Once you figure them out they aren't difficult. </div></div>
I would like to be more efficent to build them with top tier components and not spend top tier money but my skill level hasn't reached that yet. And to be able to pay some of the awesome rifle builders here is a breking point I can't go over.

why can't I will the lottery ?!?!?! </div></div>

I'm trying to see the logic... You can't afford more than $2K for the rifle but you can afford $2500 for the scope? </div></div>

 
#41
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DPMS SASS with a USO 3-17 on top is a good combo. I had an IOR 3-18 on top of mine and think it was about ideal. </div></div>

I started off with a RockRiver Lar-8 / 4-14x50 IOR. Then sold the IOR to purchase a used USO. Then HAD to sell the Lar-8, short on funds. Now I will be receiving my Sass this Wednesday
 
#42
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trophyhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I bought the scope a lil over 2 years ago used ($1800) when work was better and money was flowing. Then my job slowed down. Wife got diagnosed with cancer. She lost her job cause of budget cuts in the school district. Lost the house since I couldn't afford the mortagage and any other plans to be a world class shooter. Got back on my feet with a new job, new house, and started to save for the past 4 months to buy another semi308. Thought about selling it recently to buy a cheaper optic and spend more on the rifle but decided I can use it if I ever upgraded the rifle or it out shot me (LOL).
May not be logic to most but it was a gift to myself after being in a slump... bought the wife a trip to Las Vegas </div></div>

Good for you getting back on your feet again and making a new start.
 
#45
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

Ok, LMT experienced folks maybe you can educate me on the LMT lingo. What is the difference between a "slick" receiver vs a standard receiver, a "blackened barrel" vs a standard barrel. Which barrel option Chrome or stainless, I am hearing pro/cons to both. Perhaps what LMT model I should be looking at in their stable?

Kinda strange to hear no feedback on the LWRC, is it any good?

Lastly, looking at the POF and GAP, they have a ton of similarities.
 
#46
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

I found the difference on the slick receiver vs standard, it looks interesting and seems to save weight. I assume the blackened barrel is literally only to do with the color, nothing else.

Is there one model of the LMT that is more popular vs the others?
 
#48
Re: AR-10 Options / Opinions

I will say the OBR is my favorite I haven't had a chance to shoot LMT but I have 3 (2 762 and 1 223) OBRs now and waiting to see what a buddies PredatOBR feels like before I order one of them. The wait time sucks, but high quality.
 
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