Hey guys,I'm a new guy to the Semi-auto AR platform and I am looking to buy a .223. It's been years since my HK93 and 91 (sold) I am a bench/hunter and accuracy is a (OCD) must. I've been looking at Les Baer,Bushmaster, etc in this price range.Any seasoned opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jim
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AR .223 opinions
- Thread starter sybo
- Start date
Re: AR .223 opinions
There are many choices out there.
I'd recommend the Rock river 20" Varmint A4.
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=228
About the most accuracy one can get for $1,125.00 MSRP.
(They can be bought for less)
The Wilson barrels they use shoot tremendously well.
I'd expect around 1/2 MOA with proper ammunition, at the right distances.
There are many choices out there.
I'd recommend the Rock river 20" Varmint A4.
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=228
About the most accuracy one can get for $1,125.00 MSRP.
(They can be bought for less)
The Wilson barrels they use shoot tremendously well.
I'd expect around 1/2 MOA with proper ammunition, at the right distances.
Re: AR .223 opinions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey guys,I'm a new guy to the Semi-auto AR platform and I am looking to buy a .223. It's been years since my HK93 and 91 (sold) I am a bench/hunter and accuracy is a (OCD) must. I've been looking at Les Baer,Bushmaster, etc in this price range.Any seasoned opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jim </div></div>
You'll be disappointed with the AR, as is my buddy who keeps trying to get his AR to shoot like his bolt rifles. Can you get/make an AR shoot really well, yes you can. Will it ever be as consistant as a good bolt rifle, I've not seen that. Possible I suppose but not real probable from what I've seen.
Les Baer and JP rifles I've been around have been the most accurate out of the box but you pay a premium for that.
White Oak makes some fine barrels if you want to build your own.
I've gotten a few barrels from Compass Lake Engineering for builds and have been very pleased also.
What features are important to you?
Style of free float tube, trigger, etc.
How heavy a bullet do you plan to run?
What distance will you be shooting with the AR?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey guys,I'm a new guy to the Semi-auto AR platform and I am looking to buy a .223. It's been years since my HK93 and 91 (sold) I am a bench/hunter and accuracy is a (OCD) must. I've been looking at Les Baer,Bushmaster, etc in this price range.Any seasoned opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jim </div></div>
You'll be disappointed with the AR, as is my buddy who keeps trying to get his AR to shoot like his bolt rifles. Can you get/make an AR shoot really well, yes you can. Will it ever be as consistant as a good bolt rifle, I've not seen that. Possible I suppose but not real probable from what I've seen.
Les Baer and JP rifles I've been around have been the most accurate out of the box but you pay a premium for that.
White Oak makes some fine barrels if you want to build your own.
I've gotten a few barrels from Compass Lake Engineering for builds and have been very pleased also.
What features are important to you?
Style of free float tube, trigger, etc.
How heavy a bullet do you plan to run?
What distance will you be shooting with the AR?
Re: AR .223 opinions
Yes, if 1/2 MOA isn't close enough then the AR will probably disappoint.
Many shooters struggle just to shoot within 1/2 MOA, and most will err range, and the wind, by more than 1/2 MOA.
The practical accuracy of a bolt gun vrs an AR ends up being indistinguishable.
Spotting splash and quickly following up with a dope shot is one of the things the AR excels at IMO.
I highly doubt that you will wish you went for a bolt gun in 223.
The 20" AR, with a good barrel and trigger, is a thing to behold out to 800 yards with 77 SMK's.
Yes, if 1/2 MOA isn't close enough then the AR will probably disappoint.
Many shooters struggle just to shoot within 1/2 MOA, and most will err range, and the wind, by more than 1/2 MOA.
The practical accuracy of a bolt gun vrs an AR ends up being indistinguishable.
Spotting splash and quickly following up with a dope shot is one of the things the AR excels at IMO.
I highly doubt that you will wish you went for a bolt gun in 223.
The 20" AR, with a good barrel and trigger, is a thing to behold out to 800 yards with 77 SMK's.
Re: AR .223 opinions
I'm a big fan of MSTN, shoot Paul an email and let him know what you want to do and he'll help you. I think 1/2" is within the AR's ability, you just have to get the right one and find your load. The others I would suggest are JP, Les Baer, and possibly a OBR light from Larue.
I'm a big fan of MSTN, shoot Paul an email and let him know what you want to do and he'll help you. I think 1/2" is within the AR's ability, you just have to get the right one and find your load. The others I would suggest are JP, Les Baer, and possibly a OBR light from Larue.
Re: AR .223 opinions
Both of my POF .223s shoot around .6" for 5 at 100. They are capable of better.
Semi's are harder to shoot than bolts. The online training here made a big difference in my shooting.
-dan
Both of my POF .223s shoot around .6" for 5 at 100. They are capable of better.
Semi's are harder to shoot than bolts. The online training here made a big difference in my shooting.
-dan
Re: AR .223 opinions
I would recommend getting the parts to build your own AR and run a Lilja or Krieger barrel in it. I have found both of these companies barrels to account for a significant gain in accuracy out of the AR platform. ARs can be very accurate, they are just not as forgiving as the bolt guns.
I would recommend getting the parts to build your own AR and run a Lilja or Krieger barrel in it. I have found both of these companies barrels to account for a significant gain in accuracy out of the AR platform. ARs can be very accurate, they are just not as forgiving as the bolt guns.
Re: AR .223 opinions
Love my LT OBR 5.56. Load development at the range yesterday revealed we had not found the right combo. I tried some Fed. GMM .69 gr. and it shot very well, 7 shot, .75 MOA group.
I know it will shoot .5 MOA, I just need to find the right load.
I know I can hit anything I want with a group like that and it is twice the fun of a bolt gun.
Love my LT OBR 5.56. Load development at the range yesterday revealed we had not found the right combo. I tried some Fed. GMM .69 gr. and it shot very well, 7 shot, .75 MOA group.
I know it will shoot .5 MOA, I just need to find the right load.
I know I can hit anything I want with a group like that and it is twice the fun of a bolt gun.
Re: AR .223 opinions
If you are going to spend that much money on the Les Baer I'd suggest looking at the offerings from Noveske first.
If you are going to spend that much money on the Les Baer I'd suggest looking at the offerings from Noveske first.
Re: AR .223 opinions
I'd check noveske for your price range. Even less than that and you'd be fine for your purposes. Can buy a used upper or new receiver, free float handguards, properly spaced quality barrel, and your gtg. It's like 1911s these days alot of times the more you spend the more extra """"tactical""""" features you get that you may not need.
I'd check noveske for your price range. Even less than that and you'd be fine for your purposes. Can buy a used upper or new receiver, free float handguards, properly spaced quality barrel, and your gtg. It's like 1911s these days alot of times the more you spend the more extra """"tactical""""" features you get that you may not need.
Re: AR .223 opinions
white oak
centurion arms
GAP barrels for ar15's
its all in what you want. carbine or heavy barrel. i like the mk12 profile and they seem to do everything i want out of a 5.56 gas gun.
white oak
centurion arms
GAP barrels for ar15's
its all in what you want. carbine or heavy barrel. i like the mk12 profile and they seem to do everything i want out of a 5.56 gas gun.
Re: AR .223 opinions
Get a Kreiger barrel chambered by White Oak with a matching bolt and a clamp-on gas-block.
John outfits a number of Service Rifle and Match Rifle competitors nationwide.
His complete Uppers are a hell of a bargain, too.
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com
Get a Kreiger barrel chambered by White Oak with a matching bolt and a clamp-on gas-block.
John outfits a number of Service Rifle and Match Rifle competitors nationwide.
His complete Uppers are a hell of a bargain, too.
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com
Re: AR .223 opinions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killshot44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a Kreiger barrel chambered by White Oak with a matching bolt and a clamp-on gas-block.
John outfits a number of Service Rifle and Match Rifle competitors nationwide.
His complete Uppers are a hell of a bargain, too.
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com
</div></div>
That would be a sure bet in obtaining an accurate AR.
It will cost more, but it'll shoot.
Every barrel John chambers ends up being a tack driver, even the wilson barrels.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killshot44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a Kreiger barrel chambered by White Oak with a matching bolt and a clamp-on gas-block.
John outfits a number of Service Rifle and Match Rifle competitors nationwide.
His complete Uppers are a hell of a bargain, too.
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com
</div></div>
That would be a sure bet in obtaining an accurate AR.
It will cost more, but it'll shoot.
Every barrel John chambers ends up being a tack driver, even the wilson barrels.
Re: AR .223 opinions
Stag Model 6 Super Varminter... I love mine, very accurate, very reasonable!!
Stag Model 6 Super Varminter... I love mine, very accurate, very reasonable!!
Re: AR .223 opinions
I have a few AR platform rifles in different calibers. If I had to choose only one to keep, I would have to say it would be my colt CR6724. This rifle is a tack driver!
I have a few AR platform rifles in different calibers. If I had to choose only one to keep, I would have to say it would be my colt CR6724. This rifle is a tack driver!
Re: AR .223 opinions
You can get an AR to shoot well. 1/2 MOA is what I usually aim for in an AR build. I quit buying prebuilt stuff a while back, but a couple of off the shelf products still stand out in my mind.
The first is the Rock River with the Wilson air gauged barrel. It's an absolute tack driver. The second is the Bushmaster Predator. It too is very accurate.
If you are going to be shooting in situations wherein a fast follow up shot is important to you, I'd suggest looking into an 18" barrel with a rifle length gas system, if an opportunity presents itself. These shoot very smoothly and should still get you about 2650 fps velocity with a 77gr SMK with more than a few published loads.
Another possibility is a Bravo Company build using one of their SS410 barrels.
Still, in the end, I wound up going with a bolt gun in .223 for precision types of shooting. As has been said, bolt guns are just plain easier to shoot accurately. You're also going to pay a lot more for an AR15 that probably won't shoot as well as a $600 bolt gun (although on a level that is more akin to splitting hairs).
You can get an AR to shoot well. 1/2 MOA is what I usually aim for in an AR build. I quit buying prebuilt stuff a while back, but a couple of off the shelf products still stand out in my mind.
The first is the Rock River with the Wilson air gauged barrel. It's an absolute tack driver. The second is the Bushmaster Predator. It too is very accurate.
If you are going to be shooting in situations wherein a fast follow up shot is important to you, I'd suggest looking into an 18" barrel with a rifle length gas system, if an opportunity presents itself. These shoot very smoothly and should still get you about 2650 fps velocity with a 77gr SMK with more than a few published loads.
Another possibility is a Bravo Company build using one of their SS410 barrels.
Still, in the end, I wound up going with a bolt gun in .223 for precision types of shooting. As has been said, bolt guns are just plain easier to shoot accurately. You're also going to pay a lot more for an AR15 that probably won't shoot as well as a $600 bolt gun (although on a level that is more akin to splitting hairs).
Re: AR .223 opinions
Has anyone else noticed the OP hasn't responded?
I think to accurately answer his question, he needs to offer more info...as in, what is his budget, and how OCD accurate he is? Is he 1/4" OCD, or 1" OCD?
SAfe to say if his budget is $1000, then we can only hope he is not looking to get 1/2" MOA out of it.
So, OP, how about it???
Has anyone else noticed the OP hasn't responded?
I think to accurately answer his question, he needs to offer more info...as in, what is his budget, and how OCD accurate he is? Is he 1/4" OCD, or 1" OCD?
SAfe to say if his budget is $1000, then we can only hope he is not looking to get 1/2" MOA out of it.
So, OP, how about it???
Re: AR .223 opinions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peepaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone else noticed the OP hasn't responded?
I think to accurately answer his question, he needs to offer more info...as in, what is his budget, and how OCD accurate he is? Is he 1/4" OCD, or 1" OCD?
SAfe to say if his budget is $1000, then we can only hope he is not looking to get 1/2" MOA out of it.
So, OP, how about it??? </div></div>
+1 Good point.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peepaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone else noticed the OP hasn't responded?
I think to accurately answer his question, he needs to offer more info...as in, what is his budget, and how OCD accurate he is? Is he 1/4" OCD, or 1" OCD?
SAfe to say if his budget is $1000, then we can only hope he is not looking to get 1/2" MOA out of it.
So, OP, how about it??? </div></div>
+1 Good point.
Re: AR .223 opinions
I like this one.
http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?it...2b-822e58014822
okie
I like this one.
http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?it...2b-822e58014822
okie
Re: AR .223 opinions
WOrking on a build myself, so far ive narrowed it down to kreiger, lilja , and white oak, my current shooter has a 20" heavy kreiger with a 5.56 nato chamber and holds .5 moa out to 300yds. havent shot further yet. i was wondering if the 223 chamber or the wylde chamber would do better?
WOrking on a build myself, so far ive narrowed it down to kreiger, lilja , and white oak, my current shooter has a 20" heavy kreiger with a 5.56 nato chamber and holds .5 moa out to 300yds. havent shot further yet. i was wondering if the 223 chamber or the wylde chamber would do better?
Re: AR .223 opinions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, if 1/2 MOA isn't close enough then the AR will probably disappoint.
Many shooters struggle just to shoot within 1/2 MOA, and most will err range, and the wind, by more than 1/2 MOA.
The practical accuracy of a bolt gun vrs an AR ends up being indistinguishable.
Spotting splash and quickly following up with a dope shot is one of the things the AR excels at IMO.
I highly doubt that you will wish you went for a bolt gun in 223.
The 20" AR, with a good barrel and trigger, is a thing to behold out to 800 yards with 77 SMK's.
</div></div> this is oh so true...really, I think some people get really wrapped around the axle about 1/2 MOA versus just being able to hit the target. This is Sniper's Hide - not Bench Rest Hide...this is being able to hit a target at a distance with a projectile taken into consideration of the elements. Try hitting the 800 yard target with 20 MPH winds that are changing direction along the flight path. Follow up shots are very important. I know a lot of people that have moved off paper and move onto steel because the elusive 1/2 MOA drives people batty.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, if 1/2 MOA isn't close enough then the AR will probably disappoint.
Many shooters struggle just to shoot within 1/2 MOA, and most will err range, and the wind, by more than 1/2 MOA.
The practical accuracy of a bolt gun vrs an AR ends up being indistinguishable.
Spotting splash and quickly following up with a dope shot is one of the things the AR excels at IMO.
I highly doubt that you will wish you went for a bolt gun in 223.
The 20" AR, with a good barrel and trigger, is a thing to behold out to 800 yards with 77 SMK's.
</div></div> this is oh so true...really, I think some people get really wrapped around the axle about 1/2 MOA versus just being able to hit the target. This is Sniper's Hide - not Bench Rest Hide...this is being able to hit a target at a distance with a projectile taken into consideration of the elements. Try hitting the 800 yard target with 20 MPH winds that are changing direction along the flight path. Follow up shots are very important. I know a lot of people that have moved off paper and move onto steel because the elusive 1/2 MOA drives people batty.
