AR Ban Implications on existing owners and Boulder Tragedy

[Guyotrd]

The King Soopers tragedy hit close to home as it is 1 mile from my son's college apartment and he usually shops there on Monday's - fortunately he was with me that night - It got me thinking about my position on an A/R ban - I have several in addition to my bolt guns. I wonder what would happen to existing legal owners - I have heard the government would pay for the weapons if they ever took them away. It would be interesting if I they would pay what we all paid - which could be quite pricey, especially when you include the scope.

It also got me thinking about a solution to the problem - I have always argued that picking on AR's is stupid, as a common hand gun has about the same capacity, rate of fire and can fit in your pocket and is far more dangerous in most circumstances (except things like the Las Vegas Shooting) - meaning a crazy can not typically walk in a movie theater toting his 308 AR.

I think if I were going to address this problem I would limit sales of high mag anything to people that had any sort of violence convictions for a long time and maybe some day let them buy a deer rifle to hunt, lengthen the waiting period and increase the scrutiny on background checks. Also I have always been surprised that short barrel AR Pistols are legal - the Velcro thing on the butt stock is a joke and they are no different from a normal AR.

Again I love my shooting and hunting hobby, but the only use I can think of for a 10 in barrel 556 or 308 BO is urban warfare. (Maybe for hogs??)

I would think they are terrible home defense weapons as you will shoot through your walls and into your neighbors house -

Perhaps if you lived in Mogadishu or Darfur they would be handy to protect the family from roaming terrorists and genocidal maniacs but not here.

 

[supercorndogs]

Lets see how this works out. Support your position. How do any of those things we already have in Colorado, make you safer and stop shootings like we just had in Colorado.

In other words, fuck you with a double barreled dildo bike.

 

[darkfader]

Seriously? GTFOWTBS. How about this, listen closely, I’ll use my AR’s with whatever length barrel for whatever the fuck I want because I’m an American and it’s my right. Go ahead and turn yours in. And if you think they are paying what we paid for them, you’re in a for a rude awakening.

 

[Choid]

I'm expecting great things...

 

[Jefe's Dope]

 

[dustingaunder]

 

[Mooseknuckles]

 

[HMRamateur]

Do you want laws like Canada? Because thoughts like this are how you get laws like Canada

 

[TexPatriot]

 

[Odysseus1911]

Man, those 308 blackouts with the 10" barrels are so deadly, even the marines are scared to use them.

 

[Renegade681]

I'm going with an armed society is a polite society. We need more ccw holders carrying and instead of giving the guilty fame give them a body bag. The gun bans aren't working and the politicians have no common sense to even make laws for people they know nothing about.

 

[Precision Underground]

There are millions of high cap mags in the country. Those aren’t going away. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle. Any ban or confiscation will only disarm law abiding citizens. Don’t let fear make you think like a commie.

 

[quietmike]

Why did Rosa Parks "need" to sit at the front of the bus?
She would have still gotten to where she was going by sitting in the back and not causing a stir.

 

[HTX_17]

You know @Guyotrd I heard some Senator in a TV interview say that animals shot with an AR15 would be inedible because they would blow up when hit that kind of serious firepower. I think it’s that same US Senator that fed you the line about bullets from an AR15 standard length or SBR going through the walls in your house and into your neighbors. No worries though. Stick around for a minute without trolling and you’re liable to get an education.

 

[chrome]

The King Soopers tragedy hit close to home as it is 1 mile from my son's college apartment and he usually shops there on Monday's - fortunately he was with me that night - It got me thinking about my position on an A/R ban - I have several in addition to my bolt guns. I wonder what would happen to existing legal owners - I have heard the government would pay for the weapons if they ever took them away. It would be interesting if I they would pay what we all paid - which could be quite pricey, especially when you include the scope.

It also got me thinking about a solution to the problem - I have always argued that picking on AR's is stupid, as a common hand gun has about the same capacity, rate of fire and can fit in your pocket and is far more dangerous in most circumstances (except things like the Las Vegas Shooting) - meaning a crazy can not typically walk in a movie theater toting his 308 AR.

I think if I were going to address this problem I would limit sales of high mag anything to people that had any sort of violence convictions for a long time and maybe some day let them buy a deer rifle to hunt, lengthen the waiting period and increase the scrutiny on background checks. Also I have always been surprised that short barrel AR Pistols are legal - the Velcro thing on the butt stock is a joke and they are no different from a normal AR.

Again I love my shooting and hunting hobby, but the only use I can think of for a 10 in barrel 556 or 308 BO is urban warfare. (Maybe for hogs??)

I would think they are terrible home defense weapons as you will shoot through your walls and into your neighbors house -

Perhaps if you lived in Mogadishu or Darfur they would be handy to protect the family from roaming terrorists and genocidal maniacs but not here.

In the spirit of being collaborative and not label your contribution above as shit posting: I highly encourage you, assuming you haven't already, spend a few thousand dollars on ammo and training on both a pistol and then a SBR AR-15 based platform against moving target(s) (most home invasions are shown to be multiple assailants).

The answer will become rapidly apparent.

 

[Mwalex]

WTF did I just read? The person that started this thread is one of the major reasons the 2A is under siege. “I don’t see a use for,......”, well, that comment is completely irrelevant and shows a 100% lack of understanding of what a “right” is. Honestly, that comment is pathetic. When a “right” becomes bracketed it then becomes an allowance by the government. Turn your guns in now and save yourself some stress.

 

[Do-nothing]

Molon Labe (Come Take)...

 

[Guyotrd]

I believe I was arguing for AR ownership, " I have always argued that picking on AR's is stupid" and against selling guns to mentally deranged people that have extreme violence convictions and questioning short barrel AR's purpose -

I absolutely do not want the government to come take my toys.

I really was not expecting this sort of response and had hoped for intelligent discourse among people that love shooting and hunting as much as I to a serious problem facing our great country. Darkfader and Super Corn Dogs - what part did you object to? Also, do you actually own a double barreled dildo bike and if so - how do you use it and what is it for?

 

[R3A]

The 2nd Amendment is the reason alone in that regard. Even unlikely urban warfare is enough of a reason to own one with our rights, so you are on the money there!

That's likely not enough to satisfy the people after our guns and it hardly addresses the issue, it might pacify them for a time. I'm sure there are home defense solutions for many rifle calibers, but that goes for any length of that rifle. I'd wager the risk and instances of overpenetration are far outweighed by the benefits of the weapon systems otherwise our LE wouldn't be using them. Their effectiveness in home defense is subjective. Pros and Cons.

Comes down to that absolute power balance between the people and the government. We were founded on that ever evolving concept of freedom and equality. Whatever reason the government has for something, we have just as much reason. Generally speaking...

Further on SBR and pistol purpose: They're kinda cool. They are fun. Hunt small game. Shoot 2 gun or 3 gun, sporting stuff, personal/home defense, and yes, fulfilling urban warfare demands against either invasion or an overreaching government.

 

[TexPatriot]

I believe I was arguing for AR ownership, " I have always argued that picking on AR's is stupid" and against selling guns to mentally deranged people that have extreme violence convictions and questioning short barrel AR's purpose -

I absolutely do not want the government to come take my toys.

I really was not expecting this sort of response and had hoped for intelligent discourse among people that love shooting and hunting as much as I to a serious problem facing our great country. Darkfader and Super Corn Dogs - what part did you object to? Also, do you actually own a double barreled dildo bike and if so - how do you use it and what is it for?

Oh no, no, no, just stop. Don't double down on stupid.



Fudd forums ------------->

 

[chrome]

(fuckery cut out) questioning short barrel AR's purpose -

(more fuckery cut out)..

I'd invite you to redirect your concern about PURPOSE (as thats personal and somewhat meaningless), and view it more through the lense of EFFECTIVENESS for its intended use.

SBRs have a track record of being extremely effective in negating threats against body and property. Especially in a hypothetical "rifle vs pistol" scenario in a home invasion, SBR 1,000,000x times over.

 

[Expert684]

Tim McVeigh was screwed up in the head, he didn’t use an AR? Don’t roll over! Don’t feel compassion to to do the “ right” thing cause the lying media and cheating crooked politicians told you so. You can give up YOUR rights, but don’t start crying when they come back for your freedom, retirement and your children’s future to give it all to your fellow comrades. Quit drinking the foolaid!

 

[Guyotrd]

Thanks Chrome - valuable input - I actually shoot quite a bit, am very accurate with my STI 9mm which would be the preferred home defense tool for me. I also have a CC permit, but typically do not carry although am considering it lately. I also box light middleweight although obviously that would be of little use against an armed assailant.

Good point on the training though - I was just thinking that I should get some training on moving targets in a defense mode. I shoot the handguns at a 25 yard still target and the rest at 100 or greater.

I have hit an ELK at 275 yards on a full run though - my son and I both got one one a herd running spooked down the valley - probably one of the highlights of my life. The hunting conditions in the mountains are pretty extreme and I am not some keyboard sissy.

Nothing would have given me more satisfaction than being armed with my pistol in that supermarket and having the ability/training to save those poor innocent people -

 

[candyx]

You know when the Government said they would buy your AR's is actually them proving how dumb the sheep are. Government takes your money and then uses that money to buy your AR so you are paying the government to remove your arms. Why don't you just give me your guns so you don't have to pay twice for them.

Founding Fathers wrote 2A for the sole purpose of keeping your government at bay not for shooting squirrels and such.

 

[Aussieusa]

Well, speaking as the son of someone who got screwed over by the 96’ confiscation of all things fun in Australia, all I’m going to say since I now live in the USA, “good fucking luck government”. Not in this country.

 

[Precision Underground]

Thanks Chrome - valuable input - I actually shoot quite a bit, am very accurate with my STI 9mm which would be the preferred home defense tool for me. I also have a CC permit, but typically do not carry although am considering it lately. I also box light middleweight although obviously that would be of little use against an armed assailant.

Good point on the training though - I was just thinking that I should get some training on moving targets in a defense mode. I shoot the handguns at a 25 yard still target and the rest at 100 or greater.

I have hit an ELK at 275 yards on a full run though - my son and I both got one one a herd running spooked down the valley - probably one of the highlights of my life. The hunting conditions in the mountains are pretty extreme and I am not some keyboard sissy.

Nothing would have given me more satisfaction than being armed with my pistol in that supermarket and having the ability/training to save those poor innocent people -

Do you actually think they’ll stop at ARs? A LOT more people are killed with handguns than ARs. The next phase will be bye bye to your prized STI. Why not make a post encouraging more people to carry so SOMEONE would have been able to stop him. It’s completely asinine to think making laws will stop this shit from happening. You know what will? A lot of good guys with guns. But since you “don’t carry much” and call your guns toys that wouldn’t be you. We have way too many sheep and not enough dogs. People need to stop going beta and asking the fking morons in congress to save them. Grow a pair and protect society from evil and stop waiting on someone else to do it.

 

[deerhunter70]

Ban him!

 

[Guyotrd]

Tim McVeigh was screwed up in the head, he didn’t use an AR? Don’t roll over! Don’t feel compassion to to do the “ right” thing cause the lying media and cheating crooked politicians told you so. You can give up YOUR rights, but don’t start crying when they for your freedom, retirement and your children’s future to give it all to your fellow comrades. Quit drinking the foolaid!

I agree on McVeigh and in fact questioned one of my non gun friends just this morning that we cannot outlaw fertilizer. I also almost bought an SBR in 6.8 SPC - I love that round - I would have gotten a 12 in barrel - I am just struggling with what is starting to be a common practice - mass shootings in America. - I would have used the 6.8 for pigs. Now I use the 16.5 barrel POF 6.8 instead.

If my post was actually read I was really only questioning SBR's as that was what I assume was used in the grocery store and can project massive firepower hidden under a jacket - although they never post whether it was that or the pistol. Ultimately the line has to be drawn somewhere - and I thank those that have given useful responses.

I have never posted in the Bearpit and I guess I am not surprised by some of the responses.

People immediately jump to I am advocating for giving up freedom and the 2nd amendment. I firmly believe that an armed society to protect us from the government is a basic right created by the founding fathers - Again - I was only looking for the line and where it should be. Should everyone have a grenade launcher in the safe - for those on this post that think the Russians and Chinese are coming sure.

I would like to point out that my 13th amendment rights were clearly violated by my ex wife.

 

[TurboTrout]

The King Soopers tragedy hit close to home as it is 1 mile from my son's college apartment and he usually shops there on Monday's - fortunately he was with me that night - It got me thinking about my position on an A/R ban - I have several in addition to my bolt guns. I wonder what would happen to existing legal owners - I have heard the government would pay for the weapons if they ever took them away. It would be interesting if I they would pay what we all paid - which could be quite pricey, especially when you include the scope.

It also got me thinking about a solution to the problem - I have always argued that picking on AR's is stupid, as a common hand gun has about the same capacity, rate of fire and can fit in your pocket and is far more dangerous in most circumstances (except things like the Las Vegas Shooting) - meaning a crazy can not typically walk in a movie theater toting his 308 AR.

I think if I were going to address this problem I would limit sales of high mag anything to people that had any sort of violence convictions for a long time and maybe some day let them buy a deer rifle to hunt, lengthen the waiting period and increase the scrutiny on background checks. Also I have always been surprised that short barrel AR Pistols are legal - the Velcro thing on the butt stock is a joke and they are no different from a normal AR.

Again I love my shooting and hunting hobby, but the only use I can think of for a 10 in barrel 556 or 308 BO is urban warfare. (Maybe for hogs??)

I would think they are terrible home defense weapons as you will shoot through your walls and into your neighbors house -

Perhaps if you lived in Mogadishu or Darfur they would be handy to protect the family from roaming terrorists and genocidal maniacs but not here.

The second amendment isn’t just for deer cupcake, it for combat to defend against democide if god forbid we ever get to that point.

Please educate yourself, read the bill of rights and federalist papers.

Frankly I should be able to mail order a M249 and the NFA is anti American.

I’m sorry you got scared, I’m sure you get scared easily and rely on .gov like a safety blanket, I hope you never run the numbers on how useless they are at keeping you “safe”, I fear you might need to get your head shrunk if you were aware of how the world really works.

Meantime stay off my rights.

 

[WaltHer]

"I absolutely do not want the government to come take my toys."

What you call "toys" many of us call "tools." From your perspective I guess I can almost see your point (as ridiculous and unworkable as it is). When viewed as a tool however, the reason for the many variants of the AR 15 should be pretty self evident. Discard the two diminsional thinking the freedom haters have spoon fed you. A tool is an inanimate object, the operator determines if it is used for good or evil.

 

[TexPatriot]

Thanks Chrome - valuable input - I actually shoot quite a bit, am very accurate with my STI 9mm which would be the preferred home defense tool for me. I also have a CC permit, but typically do not carry although am considering it lately. I also box light middleweight although obviously that would be of little use against an armed assailant.

Good point on the training though - I was just thinking that I should get some training on moving targets in a defense mode. I shoot the handguns at a 25 yard still target and the rest at 100 or greater.

I have hit an ELK at 275 yards on a full run though - my son and I both got one one a herd running spooked down the valley - probably one of the highlights of my life. The hunting conditions in the mountains are pretty extreme and I am not some keyboard sissy.

Nothing would have given me more satisfaction than being armed with my pistol in that supermarket and having the ability/training to save those poor innocent people -

More than one boxer brought his fists to a gunfight and lost.

Good shot on the elk but ethical hunters avoid running shots on game animals, especially at long range.

AR pistols are very handy and portable and the reason many use them. The gun you have on you/ with you is the one thats most effective and will save you.

 

[Triple D]

Geezus...first it was AR pistols now it’s SBR’s. You don’t know enough about firearms to even honestly formulate an opinion...like 99% of the ppl that are actually against any type of ban or new legislation.

 

[msgriff]

Somebody here "deserves neither Liberty nor Safety", Benjamin Franklin

 

[M8541Reaper]

I think that you’d enjoy living in other countries where they’re more accepting of your views. Have at that for a few years, then come back to the table.

 

[Guyotrd]

More than one boxer brought his fists to a gunfight and lost.

Good shot on the elk but ethical hunters avoid running shots on game animals, especially at long range.

AR pistols are very handy and portable and the reason many use them. The gun you have on you/ with you is the one thats most effective and will save you.

Thanks for the nice response
I never thought the shot was unethical but perhaps you are right - each one had all three shots we fired in them. We had been freezing for 4 days in 20 degrees from before dawn to after sunset - and these were the only animals we saw - our very experienced guide had us set up on a ridge and he chased them out of the dark timber -

 

[Guyotrd]

Geezus...first it was AR pistols now it’s SBR’s. You don’t know enough about firearms to even honestly formulate an opinion...like 99% of the ppl that are actually against any type of ban or new legislation.

Am I incorrect in thinking an SBR is the same as an AR pistol

 

[Son of Dorn]

A 5.56 going through your walls into your neighbor's... Maybe if you live in an apartment building or something with walls made of cardboard but through multiple layers of drywall or whatnot, insulation and filler, the outside wall and its insulation etc, plus the layers of paint on those walls have an effect on penetration, and then through the same at your neighbor's house? Very unlikely.

.300 BLK, not sure about that one.

 

[Guyotrd]

I think that you’d enjoy living in other countries where they’re more accepting of your views. Have at that for a few years, then come back to the table.

I spent time in the Hindu Kush in remote Pakistan and also the tribal areas in 1993 - it was quite an experience.

 

[10ring'r]

Go ahead and feel all touchy/feeley about turning your guns over, I'm not. What the Gov. would give you, you'd be lucky if you made your sales tax back. F That! I'd beat mine with a sledge hammer first! Mac

 

[TexPatriot]

Thanks for the nice response
I never thought the shot was unethical but perhaps you are right - each one had all three shots we fired in them. We had been freezing for 4 days in 20 degrees from before dawn to after sunset - and these were the only animals we saw - our very experienced guide had us set up on a ridge and he chased them out of the dark timber -

Congratulations on the elk. And yes, running shots on game should be avoided. Elk are tough and soak up a lot of damage if not hit well. I'm surprised your guide went along with a 275 yd shot on a running elk.

 

[chrome]

Am I incorrect in thinking an SBR is the same as an AR pistol

Yes, you are incorrect.

 

[TexPatriot]

Am I incorrect in thinking an SBR is the same as an AR pistol

Yes

 

[Triple D]

Am I incorrect in thinking an SBR is the same as an AR pistol

Yes. You’re incorrect on quite a bit more as well. It’s very apparent that you believe quite a bit of what is said on liberal media but don’t have the foresight to see where things could go. Most here likely won’t accept your opinions as facts because they are simply that, an opinion. Furthermore, it’s my opinion that the thought process to derive such an opinion is flawed based on bad or misinformation.

 

[msgriff]

 

[Keel Haul]

We compromised enough in 68, then in 86 and then again in 94. Enough “compromise”.

 

[Guyotrd]

First and only post in the Bear Pit - many will be glad
1. I love America, I love my guns, know how to use them, practice often, just not combat and believe in my 2nd amendment rights
2. There are probably some ex military or special forces on here and I thank you for serving - my cousin was a Marine based in Da Nang in the late 60's and my brother in law died 30 years later from Hep B from being a med evac pilot in the same place - I worship them
3. I should have known better than to post this topic here - it will be people like me that end up saving your second amendment rights through intelligent discourse, legal protection and compromise
4. I wonder how many of the haters on here have actually used their weapons to protect their life or anyone's - LE and Military excepted and I humbly thank you for serving society and our country -
5. The toys comment was a joke - obviously they are very serious business - I just have way more than I actually need hence the humor
6. For those that can read I was actually arguing for AR's by stating a pistol is more dangerous - and I never came close to suggesting banning handguns
7. I would be outraged if the government actually tried to take my AR's - is was only interesting to explore how they would compensate, as was said, the genie is out of the bottle and at this point a ban would only put them in the hands of the bad guys.
8. I assume none of you that hate posted objected to not selling guns to violent convicted criminals or crazy people - unless you are hiding something
9. All the incendiary and ignorant comments here were actually amusing - except the guy that posted the Rosa Parks comment - You - I would like to face you in the boxing ring without your gun to protect you.

 

[The King]

I’m still getting used to the new rules - mods isn’t this a forbidden post outside of the PortaJohn thread?

 

[TexPatriot]

A 5.56 going through your walls into your neighbor's... Maybe if you live in an apartment building or something with walls made of cardboard but through multiple layers of drywall or whatnot, insulation and filler, the outside wall and its insulation etc, plus the layers of paint on those walls have an effect on penetration, and then through the same at your neighbor's house? Very unlikely.

.300 BLK, not sure about that one.

If it was a neighborhood like I lived in in South Austin and you shot a burglar and the bullet went through a wall into a neighbors house there was a good chance you'd hit another burglar.

 

[msgriff]

"I have hit an ELK at 275 yards on a full run though"
There are only two types of people who would claim this. Neither of them good.

 

[Huskydriver]

First and only post in the Bear Pit - many will be glad
1. I love America, I love my guns, know how to use them, practice often, just not combat and believe in my 2nd amendment rights
2. There are probably some ex military or special forces on here and I thank you for serving - my cousin was a Marine based in Da Nang in the late 60's and my brother in law died 30 years later from Hep B from being a med evac pilot in the same place - I worship them
3. I should have known better than to post this topic here - it will be people like me that end up saving your second amendment rights through intelligent discourse, legal protection and compromise
4. I wonder how many of the haters on here have actually used their weapons to protect their life or anyone's - LE and Military excepted and I humbly thank you for serving society and our country -
5. The toys comment was a joke - obviously they are very serious business - I just have way more than I actually need hence the humor
6. For those that can read I was actually arguing for AR's by stating a pistol is more dangerous - and I never came close to suggesting banning handguns
7. I would be outraged if the government actually tried to take my AR's - is was only interesting to explore how they would compensate, as was said, the genie is out of the bottle and at this point a ban would only put them in the hands of the bad guys.
8. I assume none of you that hate posted objected to not selling guns to violent convicted criminals or crazy people - unless you are hiding something
9. All the incendiary and ignorant comments here were actually amusing - except the guy that posted the Rosa Parks comment - You - I would like to face you in the boxing ring without your gun to protect you.

Just turn them in you don't want to be a criminal do you?

Oh and by the way if you give us a few of your neighbors names who are refusing to turn there's in, we will give you a stimulus check for each arrest that leads to a conviction.

Think of the children you will be safer knowing that all the Ar's have been bought/confiscated back.

Besides all you really need is just a shotgun.

Sir please don't make a fuss it's only for a short time please get on the train... you will be back soon. You don't want to be a criminal do you?
Just get on the train.