AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

[Salmo22]

My name is Jeff and I am an AR-Phobe.

I've never owned or even shot an AR type weapon. I think they look very sexy in an industrial/technical sort of way - kind of like a hot chick in leather. I also know they can be made to shoot very accurately. That being said, I've always had one major hang-up with AR's that kept me from actually getting one.

I am a fanatic about reloading. I spend considerable time making sure the ammo I produce is totally precise. I only shoot "store bought" ammo when I have no other choice. I will not own a weapon that I cannot reload for. It is not about saving money; it is about my addiction to precision loaded ammo. Accordingly, the idea of my meticulously prepared Lapua brass flying into the bushes or rocks is something I cannot abide. Not only would the brass be subject to damage, it could easily get lost.

Am I missing something (likely) or is lost/damaged brass simply a fact of life for AR shooters?

Please advise and offer correction as needed.

Thanks.

 

[jawa]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

Well, there is a pouch you can buy that mounts to your picatinny rail that will catch your brass.... But on damaging brass, I have been told you can not avoid denting cases... Im sure more people will elaborate, but with that said I love my LR-308.

 

[Alderleet]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

I could never keep more than half the brass from my AR. It seemed every other shot, the round would eject and the case neck would smack into the brass deflector. The brass necks were always smashed in pretty good on 1 side

Take a look at the AR firing cycle, its not very nice to brass

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

Yeah, it's a rough ride for the brass.

I always lose some, but in the grand scheme of things I pick up a lot more abandoned brass than I lose.

I don't shoot my ARs a whole lot nowadays, but wouldn't want to be without them.

 

[ssgp2]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

Adjustable gas block will reduce the pressure to the action and spare your brass.
Adding mass to the bolt carrier will have the same effect.

I own 2 AR15 and 2 AR10, no problems with the brass.
I use a brass catcher.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

Try an HK91 or 93 if you want some seriously messed up brass.

 

[chalwie]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

Never thought of it that way. But if saving brass is your concern, my LWRC M6A3 gas knob can be turned to "C" for closed. It thus cycles manually like a bolt action.

 

[OFIS]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

Tubb recoil spring, correctly timed gas tube, weighted buffer, boosted extractor spring.

My brass is in a neat little pile 3 feet in front of me at about 2 o'clock to where I'm aiming. There is usally a little bit of a dent on the body of the case but it gets fireformed out and a new one shows up next firing round.

Anneal, and enjoy.

if you were running a CAR length gas on a 16" with lightweight everything... then ya, sayonara brass.

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

Brass catcher

or

3M rubber sticker on brass deflector

or

adjustable gas block

or

neck expander

 

[scotharr]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

First off, it's an AR, not a bolt action. If you can't get over that fact, then there is no point in getting one.

That said, there ARE ways to make an AR treat brass more kindly and gently.

1. Turn your AR into a single shot: install an adjustable gas block. This allows you to turn the gas off, preventing it from cycling. I find this useful at the range where I don't want brass flying all over the place. This can also be used for long range competitions like F-Class. But you might get tired of manually cycling that semi-auto.

2. Get a 20" barrel with a full-length gas system. This treats brass more gently than mid or carbine-length systems.
3. Trim some coils off the ejector spring. This will reduce how violently the shell gets ejected and how far it gets thrown. Obviously you don't want to overdo it and impair the proper functioning of the rifle.
4. Use the proper powder for an AR: a medium burning speed. H4895 would be the default choice. Slower burning powders like Varget will increase gas port pressures and thereby increase the speed/violence of bolt carrier cycling.

PS. I use Lapua brass in my AR and get over a dozen reloads from it on average. An AR definitely abuses brass more than a bolt action. But, it's nothing a full-length resizing and mandrel can't make right. An AR is a 1/2MOA gun when all is well. If that's not good enough, then the bolt action is what you should stick with.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
3. Trim some coils off the ejector spring. This will reduce how violently the shell gets ejected and how far it gets thrown. </div></div>

Thats what I have done. it helps keep my brass in a nice neat little pile on my shooting mat. It doesn't however stop the brass from being scratched and dented and covered in powder burns. Therefore, I transgress, and CHOOSE to use "less than great brass" for my Ar, typically semi-matched lots of LC brass, or some other wad of shit I can find, knowing beforehand that it may be the last time I see/reload it. Yes my accuracy may suffer a bit, but she still holds minute of canteloupe at 600yds.

 

[dan46n2]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

I only shoot my reloads, that said a slightly dented case won't affect accuracy for most people. Regular military LC brass can get you under 1 moa. The shooter is a much bigger part of the equation if you are concerned about accuracy. If it's purely just saving your brass get a brass catcher. I don't use one but still find about 99% of my brass.

 

[BugSniper]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

I guess a slick-sided upper was too obvious thus far. That solves your denting issues. A brass catcher will solve the loss issue.

Mega, Sun Devil, DPMS, etc make slick-sided uppers.

 

[jwb47]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

brass catcher with velcro strap to fit around hand guard . 11.95 at the fun store . when hunting it is just a given fact your gonna lose brass except for last year during deer season I fired two shots at a doe running at about 50 yds . after going to confirm my kill I was walking back to the truck and there laying in the weeds was my two 458 socom brass . at about .60 cents apiece it was almost as good as finding gold.

 

[mattja99]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

I have an AR10T with the 24" barrell, it does not damage my brass at all. I also use a Superior Weapons System buffer spring, which I think helps out. Losing ejected Brass, yes sometimes, but only if I happen to be shooting in tall grass. Shooting in the prone usually leaves a nice pile in the same spot.

 

[sinister]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off, it's an AR, not a bolt action. If you can't get over that fact, then there is no point in getting one. </div></div>
If you don't have a need nor strong enough desire for an autoloader you should be happy.

I was totally shocked when I found there were Camp Perry long-range M14 shooters using what I considered expensive Lapua brass. They simply replied, "It wins."

I handload because I am not independently wealthy and no longer get Uncle Sam's ammo for free. I shoot all kinds of brass through my AR-10s, while I reserve Lapua for my purpose-built Palma rifle.

I use a Tubb Carrier Weight and Slash Extra-Heavy buffer in my AR-10s, which keeps the brass relatively dent-free. Empties stack up neatly about three feet to my 3 or 4 o'clock.

 

[Unknown]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

I sort of suspect that the OP just doesn't like semi-autos, and even if the brass issue could be resolved, he still wouldn't like them. I don't see anything wrong for preferring one type of firearm over another...that is why manufacturers make so many models.

If the OP doesn't like semi autos, there is nothing wrong with staying with a bolt gun. I have both kinds of rifles, and see them useful for different purposes.

My way of thinking about brass is sort of like tires on a race car. Sure, you can drive slowly so that the tires don't get spun, and therefore last longer, but doing so would cause me to loose out on much of the capability of the vehicle. Worrying about brass is like worrying about the tires.

Tires, like brass are a replaceable and expendable items....just like barrels. If I never shoot my best bolt gun, the barrel will last forever, but I don't see much point in owning it if I want it to last forever.

If the objective is getting your brass to last as long as possible, shoot reduced loads in a bolt gun. If you want to shoot at a faster rate of fire, you will eventually need a semi-auto, and brass problems are simply a part of the semi autos. Sure, you can dramatically reduce brass damage or loss, but it will wear more in a semi auto. If it bothered me too much, I wouldn't use my semi autos.

I have lost track of the number of times I have reloaded many of my 6.5 Grendel cases.

 

[rocky_creek]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

I do most of my shooting from a portable bench. I have built an industrial sized brass catcher that sits on the right side of the bench. For stand up play soldier shooting I bought a large tarp to spread out.

 

[Zebra644]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

Well I am a convert from a bolt gun to a gas gun. I am 6-5 and have a 14 1/4 LOP. I had a Rem 700 SPS Vamrmit on a McMillan A-5 stock with max adj LOP and adj cheek piece.My best friend that just came back from Iraq and his 4th deployment wanted it, so its his withthe understanding that if it ever gets sold, I get called first. I could never get totally comfortable behind that rifle. On my LR 308 I feel like it was made just for me, it just feels right. I dont care about the brass since I dont reload, but If I did I would just get a brass catcher. I think it just boils down on what you use the rifle for.

 

[rasp65]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

Check out these posts in gunsmithing forum http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1943980&gonew=1#UNREAD There is a whole series of threads with ideas on parts to polish that will make your AR alot easier on brass. Adjustable gas blocks, buffer weights and brass catchers are all good advice.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

Technically you could have a tight neck chamber on any AR. You just lose the slop and ability to run anything through it. Of course it wouldn't be the first time a single-purpose stick was built.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

......did someone mention brass ?

 

[eli polite]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

buy or build an AR federal/L.C. ammo and go shoot the thing

or barrow a buddys but go shoot one than you will see what its all about. i was the same way never owned an AR till a year ago. for some of the same reasons. now i have 2

 

[BCP]

Re: AR Phobias from a Bolt Action Guy

Never had a problem with 223 brass through any of my AR's. 308 was a bit harder but still not bad. I use Win and mixed LC brass and toss them after 3-4 loadings. Losing brass? I started with a batch of 50 LC 308 cases and after 4 loadings I have 47, I figure that's good enough. AR's don't usually throw brass all over the place, especially if they are handloads.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I use a Tubb Carrier Weight and Slash Extra-Heavy buffer in my AR-10s, which keeps the brass relatively dent-free. Empties stack up neatly about three feet to my 3 or 4 o'clock. </div></div>

Those did wonders for mine too, I was getting dings and bent necks - not so anymore. My lighter loads land about 10" to my right in a neat little pile, and the heavy ones go about 3-4' just like you describe.