AR10 reloading

[chpprguy]

I've searched with little luck, so.....

I am getting my first AR10.
I reload for multiple bolt actions, but my questions are...
1: I assume I need to crimp for the AR10?
2: Can you neck size after fire forming, or perhaps a light shoulder bump?
Or do gas guns require FL sizing everytime?

Any other tips/tricks would be appreciated.....
I have some Federal redbox (150GR) that I will shoot to get used to the rifle, then probably reload with 155 projectiles and Varget or maybe AA2460.....

TIA
Andy

 

[Pat M]

Re: AR10 reloading

DPMS 308: 175HPBT Sierra, no crimp, mine has a tight chamber so i use Forrester match dies

 

[chpprguy]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DPMS 308: 175HPBT Sierra, no crimp, mine has a tight chamber so i use Forrester match dies </div></div>

Thanks Pat...
no problem with the bullets moving in the case?
Do you FL or just neck size?

Andy

 

[shoepop]

Re: AR10 reloading

I have never crimped for my AR10's .003 neck tension works fine right up to redline. I have neck sized only W/O problems, the bolt has enough mass to set the shoulder back if needed

I now FL resize all not because of problems just makes life easier and my 10's shoots either just fine. Both of my AR's like the heavier stuff and prefer 175 SMK's over IMR 4895. One has factory Armalite barrel the other a 21" Noveske 1x10.

 

[chpprguy]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have never crimped for my AR10's .003 neck tension works fine right up to redline. I have neck sized only W/O problems, the bolt has enough mass to set the shoulder back if needed

I now FL resize all not because of problems just makes life eaiser and my 10's shots either just fine. Both of my AR's like the heavier stuff and prefer 175 SMK's over IMR 4895. One has factory Armalite barrel the other a 21" Noveske 1x10. </div></div>

Thanks!

 

[NOmag]

Re: AR10 reloading

Mines an ar-10 20" noting done to it except treaded for the can and a vortex flashider.


I also load the 175 smk to max mag length with 45gr of RL15 (WORK UP TO THIS DO NOT START HERE!!!!!!!!) I use a small base sizer die and a redding match seating die. My armalite liked the small base sizing but I have also used my noral die in a pinch and had very little issues. Hope this helps and I love my AR-10!!!

Is yours 20" or the 24""T model???


Later,
NOmag

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: AR10 reloading

I had a friend of mine that shot a Ar-10T. He loaded his .308with as follows
2.800 OAL
LC brass
RL-15 40.5
FGMM Mag primers
190 SMK
FL sizing
Factory Lee Crimp die

That was a load that would HAMMER at 1000yds.

just and idea.

John

 

[NOmag]

Re: AR10 reloading

oh I forgot im using black hills match brass.....

 

[chpprguy]

Re: AR10 reloading

This will be on the way to me soon....
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...194#Post1197194

24" douglas 1 in 10
20" HBAR 1 in 12

I'll probably try the 175's in the Douglas
and the 155's in the HBAR...


J.Boyette...
I assume with the FL sizing you decrease brass life?

Thanks again for the responses guys..
I'll be using Federal brass, and some LC...

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: AR10 reloading

I assume so,

but to be honest, brass to me is a expendable item. not something to collect.

for a gas gun AR-15/10 its slinging brass anyhow, so I am going to loose some anyhow. So why not run the thickest / cheap / hard ass LC brass and collect up what I can when I can.

The brass prep for a gas gun I think is a waste of time.

now a 6.5-284 all tricked out? Yes sir I would do the barss up in a heart beat. Ar-???? no way, waste of time.

John

 

[DRAM40A1]

Re: AR10 reloading

If this is still available, it would be my suggestion.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1205795#Post1205795

I shot federal that was loaded with 43 grns Varget with 168 AMAX in my GAP AR10 yesterday. The federal is too soft in many peoples opinion and ejector swipes will come early in pressure. I had malfunctions due to slivers of brass sticking the ejector.

 

[Falar]

Re: AR10 reloading

Crimping isn't necessary, I just use "S" Bushing dies to make sure I get .003" neck tension and I've yet to experience set back. I use a SB FL sizer, it isn't always necessary but in my case it was.

 

[shoepop]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I assume so,

but to be honest, brass to me is a expendable item. not something to collect.

for a gas gun AR-15/10 its slinging brass anyhow, so I am going to loose some anyhow. So why not run the thickest / cheap / hard ass LC brass and collect up what I can when I can.

The brass prep for a gas gun I think is a waste of time.

now a 6.5-284 all tricked out? Yes sir I would do the barss up in a heart beat. Ar-???? no way, waste of time.

John </div></div>
John obviously is assuming your not reloading for max accuracy and trying is a "waste of time". If so sure forget brass prep, pick up all range brass you can find, loadem and sling away. BUT there are gas guns that will shoot with good bolts and if you want to try and get there purchase and prep as you would with the finest.

 

[chpprguy]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I assume so,

but to be honest, brass to me is a expendable item. not something to collect.

for a gas gun AR-15/10 its slinging brass anyhow, so I am going to loose some anyhow. So why not run the thickest / cheap / hard ass LC brass and collect up what I can when I can.

The brass prep for a gas gun I think is a waste of time.

now a 6.5-284 all tricked out? Yes sir I would do the barss up in a heart beat. Ar-???? no way, waste of time.

John </div></div>
John obviously is assuming your not reloading for max accuracy and trying is a "waste of time". If so sure forget brass prep, pick up all range brass you can find, loadem and sling away. BUT there are gas guns that will shoot with good bolts and if you want to try and get there purchase and prep as you would with the finest. </div></div>

The factory upper will be a plinker/milsurp shooter...
the upper with the douglas will be reloading for accuracy...
hard enough to shoot my bolt correctly, might as well make it harder by adding an AR10...

 

[Broncovan]

Re: AR10 reloading

I'm just working up some loads for my Rock River LAR-8.

I don't crimp and I've got some decent results so far with 155gr Hornadys over 46.2gr Varget. Five shot group just over 1/2".

I also decided to try some Ramshot TAC since it's available and cheaper than Varget, just got a sub 1/2" five shot group during my ladder test with 168gr Nosler Custom BTHP's over 44.2gr. No pressure signs at all so far.

I rolled some more tonight to check velocities and I'm also going to push some loads up a bit to see where I start getting pressure signs.

So far I really like TAC, seems to burn very clean and it's available and cheaper than Hodgdon or IMR.

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
John obviously is assuming your not reloading for max accuracy and trying is a "waste of time". If so sure forget brass prep, pick up all range brass you can find, loadem and sling away. BUT there are gas guns that will shoot with good bolts and if you want to try and get there purchase and prep as you would with the finest. </div></div>

I know this, and its still a waste of time with AR-10's that can shoot well. Once you get a Ar-10 to shoot MOA or better, you are there.

A person that trys to get 1/4 MOA groups and all that with a AR-10, is a person with to much $$$$$ and time.

John

 

[chpprguy]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
John obviously is assuming your not reloading for max accuracy and trying is a "waste of time". If so sure forget brass prep, pick up all range brass you can find, loadem and sling away. BUT there are gas guns that will shoot with good bolts and if you want to try and get there purchase and prep as you would with the finest. </div></div>

I know this, and its still a waste of time with AR-10's that can shoot well. Once you get a Ar-10 to shoot MOA or better, you are there.

A person that trys to get 1/4 MOA groups and all that with a AR-10, is a person with to much $$$$$ and time.

John

</div></div>

I was told by a buddy with one, that with a little work, you can consistently get 1/2 MOA... that's better than I can shoot, so I would be happy with that,
Andy

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: AR10 reloading

chpprguy,

You can, thats not the point I am trying to get at.

There is alot of stuff people to to brass, bullets, powder, and the like to squeeze the ever living .0000001" out of there rifle to get the BEST EVER group size.

with a AR-15/10 its pointless.

I would full length size the brass, Lee Factory crimp the bullets, and weight each charge. Set the bullet and have at it.

solid reloading will get you to .5 MOA to 1 MOA. Thats as good as it gets.

using factory match ammunition you can get to the same level of .5 to 1 MOA.

I have a CLE AR-15 thats shoots like a house of fire, its bad ass ok. I do not load it, the same way I load my GAP 700, due to a Lee Factory Crimp Die and full length sizing the brass every time.

John

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">chpprguy,

You can, thats not the point I am trying to get at.

There is alot of stuff people to to brass, bullets, powder, and the like to squeeze the ever living .0000001" out of there rifle to get the BEST EVER group size.

with a AR-15/10 its pointless.

I would full length size the brass, Lee Factory crimp the bullets, and weight each charge. Set the bullet and have at it.

solid reloading will get you to .5 MOA to 1 MOA. Thats as good as it gets.

using factory match ammunition you can get to the same level of .5 to 1 MOA.

John</div></div>

Been shooting a 10T for 13 years, this describes my exact philosophy. It will cycle neck sized brass if I check every case and remove the occasional large ones
but why go through the head ache. I full length resize with a .002 bump and see
100% reliability and the same accuracy. I load up only to the point that my brass
shows no signs of extraction problems and no pressure signs. That varies a lot
depending on the speed of the powder and I believe it is a little different in every
gun and bullet/powder/primer combo. I always lightly Lee FC even with non cannelure bullets. No point in joining the broken bolt club because a round set
back the bullet on chambering.

 

[chpprguy]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">chpprguy,

You can, thats not the point I am trying to get at.

There is alot of stuff people to to brass, bullets, powder, and the like to squeeze the ever living .0000001" out of there rifle to get the BEST EVER group size.

with a AR-15/10 its pointless.

I would full length size the brass, Lee Factory crimp the bullets, and weight each charge. Set the bullet and have at it.

solid reloading will get you to .5 MOA to 1 MOA. Thats as good as it gets.

using factory match ammunition you can get to the same level of .5 to 1 MOA.

John</div></div>

Been shooting a 10T for 13 years, this describes my exact philosophy. It will cycle neck sized brass if I check every case and remove the occasional large ones
but why go through the head ache. I full length resize with a .002 bump and see
100% reliability and the same accuracy. I load up only to the point that my brass
shows no signs of extraction problems and no pressure signs. That varies a lot
depending on the speed of the powder and I believe it is a little different in every
gun and bullet/powder/primer combo. I always lightly Lee FC even with non cannelure bullets. No point in joining the broken bolt club because a round set
back the bullet on chambering. </div></div>
Thanks J.Boyette and Bigwheeler..
I would much rather spend time shooting than reloading..

For my bolt action reloading I used to uniform primer pockets and clean the hell out of my rifle until I realized that for my rifles and my shooting, it makes no difference......

 

[Pat M]

Re: AR10 reloading

DPMS 308, RR2stage trigger: Sierra 175BTHP, 41.5gr Reloader15, Fedral brass and primers, full sized, no crimp.
Match shoot, 5rds prone-no rear bag allowed: <span style="color: #CC0000">290 yards</span>

[/img]

 

[81sfo]

Re: AR10 reloading

DPMS 308, RR2stage trigger: Sierra 175BTHP, 41.5gr Reloader15, Fedral brass and primers, full sized, no crimp.
Match shoot, 5rds prone-no rear bag allowed:


have you chronoed this load,same as my DPMS Sass likes.

 

[JRose]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOmag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mines an ar-10 20" noting done to it except treaded for the can and a vortex flashider.


I also load the 175 smk to max mag length with 45gr of RL15 (WORK UP TO THIS DO NOT START HERE!!!!!!!!) I use a small base sizer die and a redding match seating die. My armalite liked the small base sizing but I have also used my noral die in a pinch and had very little issues. Hope this helps and I love my AR-10!!!

Is yours 20" or the 24""T model???


Later,
NOmag </div></div>

Whew weeeeeeee! What kinda velocities are you getting out of that bad boy?

 

[NOmag]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Whew weeeeeeee! What kinda velocities are you getting out of that bad boy? </div></div>

I will have to get the books out tonight and look to find the exact # but I think we were getting close to 2700 fps maybe 2650 to 2675.... Not sure but I will try to find my databook tonight. Does this load look hot or funny to you???


Later
NOmag

 

[JRose]

Re: AR10 reloading

It looks a little warm to me, but if it's working, rock out!

 

[sigyman]

Re: AR10 reloading

I dropped my jaw when I saw that load NOmag it looks really hot for the AR-10 platform I was always told to stay down at 44.5 max on it

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 5150sigy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dropped my jaw when I saw that load NOmag it looks really hot for the AR-10 platform I was always told to stay down at 44.5 max on it </div></div>

it is because you use Lake City Brass


I use 45.4gr RL15 out of a 10T that pushes a 175 at 2720 with Win brass. It is on the ragged edge but shoots very well.

 

[Falar]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 5150sigy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dropped my jaw when I saw that load NOmag it looks really hot for the AR-10 platform I was always told to stay down at 44.5 max on it </div></div>

it is because you use Lake City Brass


I use 45.4gr RL15 out of a 10T that pushes a 175 at 2720 with Win brass. It is on the ragged edge but shoots very well. </div></div>

Any ejector swipes?

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: AR10 reloading

light swipes, carbon ring has to be removed every 100 rounds but the load was developed in 95 degree heat so it runs well.

 

[7mmRM]

Re: AR10 reloading

CKA,

What length bbl?

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: AR10 reloading

whatever a 10T has....24" I think.. I can go measure it if you need it

 

[7mmRM]

Re: AR10 reloading

I thought they were 24". Didnt know if you bobbed it? Trying to figure out what Ill get with a 18.5" 308 gas gun.

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: AR10 reloading

let me know, if you can get the speed, I might whack mine off

 

[7mmRM]

Re: AR10 reloading

Ill be sure to do so.

 

[NOmag]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 5150sigy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dropped my jaw when I saw that load NOmag it looks really hot for the AR-10 platform I was always told to stay down at 44.5 max on it </div></div>


Pick it up or someone might squirt something in it!!!!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It looks a little warm to me, but if it's working, rock out! </div></div>

Warm, well hell it's plain hot here in texas and it works and thanks. No blown primers no presure marks and hits where its aimed so I'll take it!!!!!!!!!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 5150sigy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dropped my jaw when I saw that load NOmag it looks really hot for the AR-10 platform I was always told to stay down at 44.5 max on it </div></div>

it is because you use Lake City Brass


I use 45.4gr RL15 out of a 10T that pushes a 175 at 2720 with Win brass. It is on the ragged edge but shoots very well. </div></div>

Thanks for reassuring me that it worked... Glad ur Back


NOmag

 

[JRose]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">let me know, if you can get the speed, I might whack mine off </div></div>

Now that just sounds durty.....

 

[JEB405]

Re: AR10 reloading

I have an 18" DPMS with under 100 roudns through it. My original handloiads of a 150 gr Hornady FMJ over enough TAC to run them at 2700-2800 FPS resulted in more of a pattern at 100 yards than a group. FGMM 168's I could coax into 2". I had just a few loads using M118 173 grain bullets (I didn't tach them, but would guess around 2500 FPS) and I started to see sub-1". I have never seen a gun "Jekyl and Hyde" like this. It seemed to like them much better.

Is anyone else having similar problem with fast & light bullets? Is that why there are so many using 175 SMK's?

I was hoping to get something better than 2" @ 100 yards without having to load premium bullets like SMK's.

Mostly curios if it is just my gun.

JB

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: AR10 reloading

match rounds give match results. Load match rounds and see if it is the bullet or the rifle, make sure it isn't you while you are at it.

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: AR10 reloading

JB, you never mentioned any load work? How did you arrive at your powder charge

used for each load?

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">chpprguy,

You can, thats not the point I am trying to get at.

There is alot of stuff people to to brass, bullets, powder, and the like to squeeze the ever living .0000001" out of there rifle to get the BEST EVER group size.

with a AR-15/10 its pointless.

I would full length size the brass, Lee Factory crimp the bullets, and weight each charge. Set the bullet and have at it.

solid reloading will get you to .5 MOA to 1 MOA. Thats as good as it gets.

using factory match ammunition you can get to the same level of .5 to 1 MOA.

I have a CLE AR-15 thats shoots like a house of fire, its bad ass ok. I do not load it, the same way I load my GAP 700, due to a Lee Factory Crimp Die and full length sizing the brass every time.

John </div></div>

You need to learn more about this topic before taking a strong position; that's foolish, but have at it.
One reason you're getting a different result is your doing something different; the ammo is not of the same higher quality. An area of the brass bullet combination ctirical to accurate ammo is the area where the neck contacts the bullet. Crimping destroys the quality of this critical area.
And if your DPMS isn't shooting quality ammo very well on the target, it ain't the gun but you the shooter.

 

[chpprguy]

Re: AR10 reloading

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">light swipes, carbon ring has to be removed every 100 rounds but the load was developed in 95 degree heat so it runs well. </div></div>

Can you elaborate?
I am AR10 stupid...... ejector swipes, carbon ring?
thanks again guys for all the info and debate...

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: AR10 reloading

small marks on the case head, when caused by the ejector, is a sign of pressure. It is not gas gun specific, as bolt guns exhibit the same signs.

The carbon ring is carbon deposits just in front of the chamber. When this builds up, it can increase pressures in the chamber. It is not a big deal unless you are already running a hot load.

I really don't recommend running hot loads in anything until you have a solid grasp of your rifles capabilities. I did load development two weeks ago on a LR308 and we could barely get the 175s over 2600 before we hit max pressure.

 

[Brians708]

Re: AR10 reloading

Dang Pat,
Hmmm. My dealer has a few of these dpms's set back for a rainy day... I might have to talk him outta one if it shoots like that...
Nice job.

 

[chpprguy]

Re: AR10 reloading

Thanks...
I am not one to run stuff hot anyway..
Andy

 

[doc76251]

Re: AR10 reloading

Anybody play with 190's and RE-17 in a gas gun yet? I got a new (to me) AR-10 and am looking to play with things.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: AR10 reloading

you know... I have a ton of 190s in the back of the closet somewhere, I might try them

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: AR10 reloading

doc, don't do that, or if you do, take pictures. Seriously, how about 155scenars instead?

 

[ohiogunnut]

Re: AR10 reloading

My 24"T seems to like 155 scenars, Win brass, and 45gr 4895 (keeps under 1MOA). Get mild ejector swipes on the brass, but after about 1000 of this load down the tube, no problems.

 

[doc76251]

Re: AR10 reloading

OK since I'm new to AR-10's and their quirks. What is the standard safe pressure for the AR-10. Yes, I'm familiar with the chamber variances and such, but what is the operating pressure?

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Shady_Jay]

Re: AR10 reloading

if you're talking about CPU it is the same as a bolt gun't tolerance