AR15 SPR Muzzle Device Choices

[El Xolo Mexicano]

I wasn’t expecting to get stuck on this issue for so long (couple of weeks) on my first SPR build. Forward Controls Design’s “6315 “ flash hider seems like a decent pick without going into the crazy deep end, and definitely not breaking the bank either.

My question thinking is this. Are the linear compensators worth it? When it comes to putting the concession down range from the shooter at least. I’ve seen people measure out 3 Db difference from the shooter’s ear.

Now I would like to get a suppressor in the future. But realistically it’s money probably better spent on electronic ears, shooting, hunting, and a decent rifle scope instead. This rifle have a multipurpose role of hunting, possible self defense gun if need be, and hopefully some competitions if the opportunity arises. I also only only have experience with the traditional A2 flash hider which is super cheap.

 

[oldfatguy]

Electronic ears and a good scope are very basic equipment. While a linear compensator helps, it will NOT be hearing safe. Might as well go with a low cost muzzle device. The silencer specific muzzle device can be bought with the can if you ever go that route.

OFG

 

[XLR308]

When I got my first 68spc it was meant to be a short handy hunting rifle. With a 16" barrel good balance and allready fairly low recoil for fast follow up shots on hogs I figured a muzzle brake would only make it better.

Fast forward to a couple of shots taken without hearing protection with a Surefire brake on it and now the barely used brake will be coming off and a thread protector being put on.

If you allways plan on having hearing protection on, not allways possible when hunting then a brake can be helpful otherwise not for me.

 

[El Xolo Mexicano]

Oldfatguy,
I understand it won’t be hearing safe, but it’s still “safer” than traditional muzzle devices. A 3Db difference is half the pressure from 158Db. Not anywhere close to 140Db of course, but sometimes little details adds up.

XLE308,
Oh I definitely will make sure I have hearing protection. I’m already myopic as is, and I don’t need to add deafness to my list of problems. I’m still gonna hunt regardless of the risk, but I’d rather miss an opportunity on a shot than take damage to my hearing.

Admittedly, I’m really looking at this as finally dipping my toes in precision marksmanship. I may buy long bows too. Which is an entirely different skill set, and a different discussion altogether.

 

[flyer]

Muzzle brake are for range toys, competition guns and Magnum calibers or people who are just recoil sensitive.

If you don't need one, your ears will tank you and you won't piss off people shooting next to you at the range.

 

[mgrs]

I would start with an A2 or whatever you have in the parts bin and get a specific device once you have selected the suppressor you will buy.

 

[Potss]

Flyer hit the nail on the head. Just get a cheap A2 and save for a suppressor.

 

[El Xolo Mexicano]

Noted, and I will consider it. I was never thinking about muzzle breaks though. Linear compensators were/are my interest just in case I don’t go the suppressor route. Both companies I’m looking at provide their own muzzle devices. Which are Griffin Armament and OSS. The latter is very appealing to me since it has much less back pressure.

 

[Potss]

Word of warning, do not buy an OSS suppressor, an adjustable gas block accomplishes pretty much the same thing (and the same db reduction to the ear) much cheaper and better. With OSS you'll have a heavier and longer can that needs to be cleaned and has very poor at the muzzle suppression. A Q, SIG, Surefire, Dead Air, or even Omega + an SA gas block will yield superior results.

 

[El Xolo Mexicano]

Potss,
I don’t particularly care about at the muzzle suppression. Baffle stacks or variations of it still have greater back pressure through the chamber. I’m concerned about preserving my own hearing more than anything else.

An adjustable gas block is great for tuning reliability on your weapon system, but doesn’t stop back pressure. If this was a bolt action rifle? I really wouldn’t care for the OSS system, because the closed chamber prevents any gas from going back to the shooter’s ear. Which obviously needs to be operated manually to cycle the weapon. By that time the projectile is long gone.

I have previously thought about on my own, and my conclusion has been essentially unchanged. Humping a heavier rifle will take training, but it’s being mitigated by the Midwest Combat Rail at 10oz. I save weight where I can do I can compromise elsewhere. Thanks for the suggestions and advice nonetheless.

 

[Potss]

El Xolo Mexicano

That is incorrect, an AGB doesn't decrease pressure but it does decrease flow. Slowing the BCG unlock and extraction, which significantly cuts down on the noise to the shooter. Here are three videos that illistraight this point very well:







The AGB provides 5-7db reduction, and probably more given that is on an SBR. Point being you can get a Q Trash Panda, Omega, etc, and have a can that is the same or less db to the shooter, while having FAR less db at the muzzle, and is shorter, weighs less, and you don't have to clean. Now if you had a Tavor/X95 or something, then the OSS starts to make more sense, because there are no AGBs for it.

 

[El Xolo Mexicano]

This is MAC’s testing on Db ranges. The newest generation isn’t as quiet as the previous, but he’s also suppressing 308s. Which is naturally louder than a 5.56. With 140-142Db at the shooter’s ear, and the old generation 132-135Db at the shooter’s ear. I’d say the last generation is pretty impressive.

Now if I remember my ballistics correctly. A AGB will slow the timing a bit, but the dwell time becomes an issue. With baffle stacks the pressure will still come through the bore.



Of course, independent testing is required for all products, but OSS is advertising their 5.56 can around $900. Which is hardly breaking the bank IMO. I’m also going to be running an 18” barrel with a full length gas system. This is the following dB ranges as advertised:

• 130 – 134 dB on 20” AR15 DI using commercial grade 55 gr ammo

• 133 – 137 dB on 16” AR15 DI using commercial grade 55 gr ammo
• 138 – 142 dB on 10.5” AR15 DI using commercial grade 55 gr ammo

 

[Potss]

El Xolo Mexicano

Did you watch the above videos? There are absolutely no issues running suppressed with an AGB, it takes care of the dwell time issue because you can cut the flow significantly.

Also, MAC's testing is invalid because he is using a met er that is incapable of capturing actual peak pressure, which you can read about here. He is using on rifles where they make more sense however, since both the MDR and Tavor/X95 do not have proper AGBs.

You can see some proper independent testing done here (suffice to say it is nowhere close to the marketing numbers), and it just reinforces what I stated above. Which is to say that with a traditional suppressor + AGB, you can get similar at the ear numbers as the OSS (or better in some cases) but while being shorter, lighter, not needing to be cleaned, and giving better at the muzzle numbers. In fact as you can see in this chart (credit NFATalk.org) there are meters that exceed the OSS without an AGB!

 

[Fig]

I took the Loudner off my AR. It doesn’t do enough to justify how obnoxious it makes the report for the shooter and everyone around him.

 

[El Xolo Mexicano]

Potss,
Admittedly I didn’t watch full videos, but I did skip to dB readings lol. I kinda found them to be obnoxious and kinda annoying. I was really hoping to avoid the whole adjustable gas block approach, but your statement is true. At least when it comes to opening up different options for suppressors.

Now I’m still confused on how pressure isn’t included in dB reading, because the system of measurement was kinda designed around it. Excluding different atmospheric conditions. It’d be kinda redundant? But I will look at the links provided later.

 

[Potss]

Well it is your choice, just realize that there are mechanically superior options for the AR platform.

And the TL;DR on the linked thread is the meter he is using (the LXT) doesn't have a fast enough rise time or high enough sample rate to catch the max pressure level. Which is to say it is taking too few samples too slowly so you miss the actual peak. So it doesn't give accurate numbers. Meters that meet the actual spec and give good numbers are QUITE expensive.

 

[El Xolo Mexicano]

Potss,
Ahh ok that makes sense. Oh don’t worry homeboy. I’m not set on these last few things at all. It’s taken me a year, and a half to get this far. People have talked me into different approaches before. When they provide a strong enough argument of course.

I wasn’t sold on the MLOK rail system either, but my local AR manufacturer convinced me otherwise. I still got the quad rail in my safe though. The weight savings alone was worth it. Again, I’ll have to read the links later.

 

[El Xolo Mexicano]

Potss,
After reading through the links you’ve provided. You definitely make some really good arguments. My problem with the last link it looks like they’re shooting 17HMR? Which isn’t an apples to apples comparison for .223/5.56 suppression.

However, I did find this independent testing in one of your links:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/08/11/oss-helix/

OSS SUPPRESSORS HELIX HX-QD 556 DECIBEL METERING

• Environment: 77 degrees; 95% humidity
• Decibel Meter: B&K 2209 – A Weighted
• Control Silencer: SureFire SOCOM 556 RC2
• Host: Dynamic Defense 18” Romeo with adjustable gas block
• Ammunition: 62gr Federal Fusion SP

Meter Location: MILSTD Muzzle
147
145.6
145.1
143.9
144.6
145.3

Meter location: Right Ear
136
135.1
137.1
138.3
137.9
137.8
138.4

• Environment: 77 degrees; 95% humidity
• Decibel Meter: B&K 2209 – A Weighted
• Test Silencer: OSS HX-QD 556
• Host: Dynamic Defense 18” Romeo with adjustable gas block
• Ammunition: 62gr Federal Fusion SP

Meter Location: MILSTD Muzzle
144.8 (failure to feed)
142.4 (FTF) (1/4 turn open on SLR gas block)
140.5
139.2
142.1
141.5

Meter Location: Right Ear
136
135.8
136.1
136
135.1
134.6
134.7
138.1
136
136.2
136.5
135.8
137.7
137.6
140+ (bolt hold open)

 

[El Xolo Mexicano]

At least to my understanding. We’re both correct in our analysis? I personally don’t own or have even shot any suppressors, but by the evidence I’m seeing. It depends on how you want to achieve the end result.

The OSS is bringing some things to market that are worthwhile IMHO. A self tightening system with no moving parts being one of them. They’re also coming out with a flash hider to mount it on. As you’ve noted, they’re system is on the heavier side, and your selection is limited. To me it seems more user friendly for novices, or laymen who may not have the skill necessary for tinkering.

While with your approach. You have much wider selection to choose from, and can still achieve the same dB reduction results. With the added benefit of potentially saving money, weight, and fine tuning your weapon system to a particular task. The potential negative is not all people may achieve the skill level, or knowledge base to achieve it on their own. Admittedly, I will have to explore this option more thanks to your input, but I’m not discarding the OSS just yet.

 

[Potss]

You need to click the tabs in the google sheets document, they are shooting 5.56 in the 5.56 tab, which I linked directly to I believe (if not here is a link): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wyDg5mApxqWhauRwFakB4PSQ0/edit#gid=1156700540

There are better mounts like the Keymo. If you want self-tightening there are plenty already, like the Area 419.

As someone who owns suppressors and shoots them regularly, I can personally affirm that the pre and post AGB era is like night and day.

I wouldn't discard OSS or Nexgen (or similar) I'd just discard them on ARs where you have a choice of what gas block to run .

 

[El Xolo Mexicano]

Potss,
Oh shit yeah the tabs make sense lol, and yes you did post it already. Sorry I’m computer retarded, and I’m running everything off my stupid iPhone. Well, if I wasn’t willing to consider other points of view? I wouldn’t have posted on the internet.

The Spikes tactical AGB looks interesting. Albeit very pricey. The rest of the build I’m pretty much set with, but it’s this last part I’m still deciding on of course. I’ll take look at the ones you just mentioned.

The Dead Air mounts are definitely interesting. That sale they have on the smaller one could be a bargain, but I’m definitely looking for more suppression. I’m also not against a direct thread suppressor onto the barrel either, but I’ll have to weight the different options.

 

[El Xolo Mexicano]

Potss,
Ok let me review the information. Basically I can get an Omega can, put on a Area 419 self tightening adapter, and have an adjustable gas block. Which will achieve below 140dB at the muzzle as well as the shooter’s ear. If that’s true? That’s pretty awesome.

 

[Potss]

That is correct! I've actually been running that exact combo on a 16in AR and really liked it. But I found that it would tighten down so much after long range sessions (like 350+ rounds in an hour or two) that I'd need a strap wrench to take off the suppressor to clean the barrel. So I tried Keymo and I'm not going to be using anything else for the foreseeable future. Red hot it will come off, 1000+ rounds in one day and let it sit for a week, it will come off. Since I run on multiple hosts, that is big for me. You gain about 3oz and 1in of length vs. the Area 419 though, so if you only have one host I can see just running the Area 419.

I'd also say I've used SIG SRD 7.62 QD and it is a bit quieter than the Omega when both are tuned with AGBs (and the Q Trash Panda is basically an upgraded SIG). Speaking of which, I'd highly recommend the SLR Rifleworks or Superlative Arms AGB. The spikes is a rebranded Superlative. I run both, and they are both excellent, although I'd give a slight edge to the superlative.

 

[El Xolo Mexicano]

Potss,
Yeah I’m not planning on having to many rifles. I really just want, and really only need, just one for precision marksmanship. So I won’t mind just hosting it on a single rifle, because my marksmanship efforts are probably better spent in other areas. Shotgunning and pistols being better for my goals. Myopia can be a bitch like that lol.

The primary role of this rifle is hunting. With secondary role of a self defense weapon. I’d like to go hunting in some of the unites here in Arizona, but they’re awfully close to the border. With trafficking being a big issue too.

I will have you check those combinations out as well. Definitely learning a lot of stuff with your posts. Thanks a bunch.