AR15 version help

[itguy]

Ok guys. Ill explain what I am thinking and I would like some input. Im torn on what I should do.
I plan on building an ar15. I dont know if I should go 16in or shorter or 18in or longer. My original goal was to have HD protection with it, be a zombie killer if the world ever comes to that, and be something fun to take to the range once in a while.

Going to the range is obviously more useful then it just sitting in the safe waiting for the bad guys. I was wanting it lightweight, short for maneuverability but also want good accuracy.

My plan was to have this short rifle and then have a bigger cal. like .308 or 30-06 for longer range target/zombie plinking.

I Still want a long range rifle but Im wondering if I should go with an 18in AR that way I can reach out to about 500 yds and touch someone/something.

What are your thoughts? would 18in be ok for cqb? or does that get to long to be bale to round corners. My house isnt to big but still trying to plan everything out.

There will also be a REM shotty for HD as well but I guess you can never have enough protection.

What is the opinion of this board about HD/zombie getters plus range/target shooting.

The ideal way to go would be 2 ARs but the wife isnt to thrilled about the first one. i dont want to piss her off to bad.

Thanks Guys

 

[HotIce]

Re: AR15 version help

Forget 500yrds. Zombies come up from the ground 50 feet before you!

 

[IrishArrow]

Re: AR15 version help

Don't really need to have a 18" in order to get 500yds, if you can't do that with 16" something else is wrong. Get the 16" or shorter sbr, set it up right the first time to get the job done don't go cheap...to many people base their rifle on how much it costs. Why is your wife pissed if your going to protect your life and others around you? Then after that is done do your long range rifle and shoot the hell out of them.

 

[Starvin]

Re: AR15 version help

16" barrel, 1:7 twist and then load your own 75-77gr OTM ammo.

Couple that with an ACOG or 1-4/5/6x variable power scope and you'll have a pretty dang versatile weapon.

The KAC SR-15E3, Noveske N4 Recce, Colt 6940/6920, Daniel Defense M4, and BCM BFH line are all good choices with preference given to the KAC and Noveske.

 

[itguy]

Re: AR15 version help

Thanks guys. My wife..doesnt like the Mil-spec looking rifle. She thinks it looks like Im trying to form a Milita.

I said..no.. I think 16 is what I should go for as well the more think about it..but if anyone has any other opinions lets hear them.

Thanks

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: AR15 version help

There are more opinions on this than Carter has pills. Pick one that's not a dead end. By that, I mean, unless you've got an I.Q. of 77, or less, building a rifle as you've suggested you want will just plain bore you. As you consider taking it to the range on a second occasion you will likely think..been there, done that.

Consider a rifle which is authorized for CMP and NRA governed Service Rifle competition. Building a match conditioned commercial equivalent of the M16A2, 3, or 4 will satisfy the rules, allowing for you to participate in competitions, which will inspire marksmanship development, as well as continued shooting interest.

The match conditioned rifle as described is not only ideal for marksmanship development, but, having developed some understanding of what good shooting is all about with it, you'll certainly be able to get good hits on zombies too, making Night of the Living Dead 2 a very short movie.

 

[jrob300]

Re: AR15 version help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Starvin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">16" barrel, 1:7 twist and then load your own 75-77gr OTM ammo.

Couple that with an ACOG or 1-4/5/6x variable power scope and you'll have a pretty dang versatile weapon.

The KAC SR-15E3, <span style="font-weight: bold">Noveske N4 Recce</span>, Colt 6940/6920, Daniel Defense M4, and BCM BFH line are all good choices with preference given to the KAC and Noveske.


</div></div>

+1

Especially the Noveske

John

 

[itguy]

Re: AR15 version help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are more opinions on this than Carter has pills. Pick one that's not a dead end. By that, I mean, unless you've got an I.Q. of 77, or less, building a rifle as you've suggested you want will just plain bore you. As you consider taking it to the range on a second occasion you will likely think..been there, done that.

Consider a rifle which is authorized for CMP and NRA governed Service Rifle competition. Building a match conditioned commercial equivalent of the M16A2, 3, or 4 will satisfy the rules, allowing for you to participate in competitions, which will inspire marksmanship development, as well as continued shooting interest.

The match conditioned rifle as described is not only ideal for marksmanship development, but, having developed some understanding of what good shooting is all about with it, you'll certainly be able to get good hits on zombies too, making Night of the Living Dead 2 a very short movie. </div></div>

Thanks for this opinion. I agree Fully. I dont want to get bored. Money is semi tight as like others Im sure..its not growing out of our ears. I am trying to cover all my bases 1 with 1 rifle. Being accurate is what I was going for to be local competition ready. I shoot .22 matches regularly and enjoy the hell out of that. So it would be fun to get into that with an AR. I dont have any reloading equipment yet but its on my list. My goal was to make a functional rifle but still be able to use it in matches. Picking the right barrel is what Im most concerned about. I want to be able to be useable in a CQB situation but still be good enough for matches. Everything else is basicly pick what you want and go with it. I will have a BUIS on it along with some sort of optics. Acog or eotech..depends how much money I can save.

I plan to use a Red River Tach. lower with a JP trigger. Anyway.. im not sure what the NRA specs have to be but I will look it up. Again Im most worry about picking the right barrel length. I dont have the money for multiple uppers right now. maybe in the distant future. My my big Cal. is next on the list to get before a second upper.

Thanks again

 

[christian77]

Re: AR15 version help

Go with a 16" 1:7 or 1:8 and it will fill the niche for a house gun and easily do 500.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: AR15 version help

The Service Rifle uses a 20 inch barrel. With it's relatively long sight radius, along with standard aperture, you'll get good definition of the target, while allowing for focus to remain on the front sight. Plus, with the extra inches, you'll get a finer graduation value from the BDC, helpful for zeroing refinement; and, of course, the greater velocity from the 20 inch barrel will get bullets to a greater distance nose-on. Oh, one more thing, the sight radius on the 20 inch barrel will give you better recognition for when sight alignment has been perfected.

Now, consider what benefits a 16 or 18 inch barrel will deliver that are meaningful. There aren't any, other than in some sort of fantasy. Of course, get what moves you, it's your money, but, if it's becoming an extraordinary marksman that appeals to you the choice is clear. Down the road, if still interested, get the high speed upper.

 

[itguy]

Re: AR15 version help

The Service Rifle uses a 20 inch barrel. With it's relatively long sight radius, along with standard aperture, you'll get good definition of the target, while allowing for focus to remain on the front sight. Plus, with the extra inches, you'll get a finer graduation value from the BDC, helpful for zeroing refinement; and, of course, the greater velocity from the 20 inch barrel will get bullets to a greater distance nose-on. Oh, one more thing, the sight radius on the 20 inch barrel will give you better recognition for when sight alignment has been perfected.

Now, consider what benefits a 16 or 18 inch barrel will deliver that are meaningful. There aren't any, other than in some sort of fantasy. Of course, get what moves you, it's your money, but, if it's becoming an extraordinary marksman that appeals to you the choice is clear. Down the road, if still interested, get the high speed upper. [/quote

THANKS!!

A nice thought out post with your own opinion. Its nice to hear this instead of all the bandwagon cookie cutter replies where a reply is basicly saying your right get that but with no valid info as to why. Just because I want something doesnt make it the right thing to get. To me thats why most of us post. I guess some could post just to affirm their thoughts and make them feel better.

Im going to play devils advocate. You say the 16 or 18 inch barrels wont give me anything I need that the 20 doesnt already. What about the HD scenario. God forbid that were to ever happen. I realize its only 2 or 4 in difference which really isnt much but going around a corner in your home seems the shorter the better. Besides the sight line and radius what benefits does the 20" have? Can I shoot 800 to 1000 yrds with it? I doubt it unless you have some hotter loads then factory and no wind. I may plan on doing matches but they wont be on the national level..and if they ever are I will probably build a second rifle with a match 2 stage trigger and all that. Again, just playing devils advocate. If my 16 will shoot as good as the 18 or 20 up to 500 yrds or maybe a little more and "If" I can use it in our local matches why would I get a 20? I am checking on our match rules so that may make me go 20 anyway but I need to find out first.

I plan on going a higher end barrel like was suggested. And I dont plan on putting thousands of rounds down range at every outing. Im not sure why you say there are no benefits of going shorter then 20.

Thanks.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: AR15 version help

For HD get a S&W 642. That's if HD is something you really want to be prepared for.

For local matches, you'll need a 20 inch barrel, it's spelled out in NRA and CMP rules.

No doubt, even with a BDC iron sight set, an M4 carbine is awesome for targets at most any distance. Yet, for you, the benefit would be only for indoors, and there, a 642 in pocket is more useful than an AR Carbine back in the bedroom. Think about it, any gun that is going to be used for recreation, as well as security will likely not best serve either purpose. When it comes to saving your life, get what can be in hand quickly.

 

[itguy]

Re: AR15 version help

OK..I think You sold me.

I do have a Rem 860 Express on the list as well. But i understand what you are saying.

Any other opinions out there?

 

[HotIce]

Re: AR15 version help

What SS said. I suggest you an RRA CMP. Very nice fit and finish, and super accurate.

 

[christian77]

Re: AR15 version help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ITGuy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My original goal was to have HD protection with it...and be something fun to take to the range once in a while.
</div></div>
I agree with just about everything Sterling Shooter has said for a <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">competition</span></span> gun, but not for an HD gun or range plinker. If you are planning on using an optic may it be a reflex-sight or scope...that really negates the need for a longer sight radius (irons) IMO.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ITGuy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im going to play devils advocate. You say the 16 or 18 inch barrels wont give me anything I need that the 20 doesnt already. What about the HD scenario. God forbid that were to ever happen. I realize its only 2 or 4 in difference which really isnt much but going around a corner in your home seems the shorter the better. Besides the sight line and radius what benefits does the 20" have? </div></div>
Here is one also for devil's advocate...I'm willing to bet that I can wear out most folks any time of day or night in CQC with a 10.5, 14.5 or 16 against someone toting a 20" barreled stick.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ITGuy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I plan on going a higher end barrel like was suggested.</div></div>
In the event my post was "cookie cutter", here is my reasoning behind my recommendation...

1:7 or 1:8 twist so you can stabilize heavier bullets and reach your 500yd objective with accuracy.

The barrel on the rifle I posted is a 16" CLE turned Douglas barrel with 1:7 twist...it performs exceptionally well.

I recommend making sure that your upper has M4 feed ramps for better reliability with some ammo.

I recommend a collapsible stock vs. a fixed stock like I have pictured on mine for HD purposes. The one I have pictured is not my HD rifle. Try out a few and see what works best for you...I like the LMT SOPMOD stocks and couldn't give a shit that its name brand...I like the cheekweld it offers me.

I recommend getting a relex sight if this is a rifle you want for HD purposes. Ever do CQC with a scope...it sucks!

I recommend getting trng on how to use your rifle in HD scenarios...never cool to get rolled up by your own rifle if you don't know wtf your doing.

I think you will be fine with just about any lower reciever out there on the market for your gun as long as it is milspec...the name stamped on outer magwell means very little other than resale value IMO.

I recommend getting some quality back up iron sights and shooting/zeroing those well before mounting any optic. Irons are way too often overlooked with todays optics abounding.

I recommend shooting at distances of 5yds and out when trng at the range if this is going to be a HD gun. Starting at 25yds and beyond is great, but is your bedroom hallway 25yds long? I doubt it...so figure out your close quarters contact distances. What you see in your sights in not always what your bullet sees on its way out the barrel.

I recommend you mount a taclight of some fashion to your weapon for low light HD scenarios...don't be that guy that blows his kid's head off because his adrenalin is pumping and he reacts before he processes.

If this is a HD & range plinker...Redi-mags, ambi-controls, mungadie mags, lasers and all that shit will do nothing more for you than make your weapon heavier and harder to drive on trgt. *If you are actually a gunfighter that is exception

Seek quality training...going to the range is excellent, but if you don't already possess some formal training...you could be reinforcing bad & dangerous habbits.

Master a standard trigger well before you start dropping in light triggers.

 

[spotswood]

Re: AR15 version help

You might want to consider buying a good quality AR15 from Rock River in either a 16" barrel cqb type set up with extendable stock with optics for close quarters, and then add a second 20" match barrel later with larger optics for more accurate long distance targets. That may save you a little versus having two complete guns, although when you are done it may be so close that it is easier to have two complete guns rather than an extra upper.

I just did what you are going through.
I set up a Rock River Elite 16" with a 4x32 Acog for close distances.
Now I am setting up a Rock River Predator Pursuit lower with a 20" stainless match barrel with a 5x25x56 for long distance plinking.
I don't reload. I buy bulk 55 grain fmj and 75 grain for plinking and 5.56 can be had pretty cheap so maybe reloading that caliber is not worth the time involved. You can decide that. It is a great caliber to plink with on a regular basis.
Good luck
gary

 

[itguy]

Re: AR15 version help

Nice Post. And no it didnt sound like Cookie Cutter to me. You may have agreed with some of what I said..but you backed it up with reason and your opinion. In the LONG run I would love to have 2 complete uppers for an easy swap from HD to Comp package with a few min. That will happen after I figure out what Long Range gun I want and can afford. I have lots of smaller cal guns but no big cal. 22-250 isnt to big and really cant be a Long range gun. So I must grow my collection. Anyway. Thank you very much for your post.

 

[spotswood]

Re: AR15 version help

Let me add a little more to my previous post after reviewing your original post IT Guy.
If you decide to go with less than 16" on the barrel, you may fall into the category of having to get a special license. I had to do that for my supressor which I swap between my Ar's.
You would sacrifice accuracy when scaling down from a 20 heavy accurized barrel to a 16" barrel. I would choose one of these two lengths depending on what most of your applications will be.
With Rock River most of their guns come with a pretty nice two stage match trigger. It is a lot of gun for the money.
If you are eventually going to be shooting in like three gun matches, then you may want to swap out the trigger with a combat type one stage jewell trigger. A two stage trigger shoots very different from a one stage combat type.
Gary

 

[christian77]

Re: AR15 version help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: spotswood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1. If you decide to go with less than 16" on the barrel, you may fall into the category of having to get a special license.

2. You would sacrifice accuracy when scaling down from a 20 heavy accurized barrel to a 16" barrel.</div></div>
1. A standard M4 barrel is 14.5 inches long and by adding a flash suppressor or break long enought to equal a total of 16"+ is perfectly legal, given the FH/break is permanantly attached (pin/weld).

2. A common misnomer. You don't sacrifice ANY accuracy at all with a shorter barrel, what you sacrifice is muzzle velocity.

***You have to give a little to get a little.

 

[itguy]

Re: AR15 version help

all GREAT info guys. Thanks. Keep it coming.

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: AR15 version help

Get a good AR.. For what you are asking for, a plain jane carbine 16" barrel will do for the majority of the shooting you stated....In your shoes and with money and wife as somewhat of a consideration: I would look for a Rock River 16" carbine. I prefer a carbine for quick handling and they are just fun and lightweight. I would opt for one with a flattop upper for optics, a picatinny railed forarm grip for light/ accesory attachments....I would also buy a complete upper that is suited for the long range shots that you may want to do: something like a Rock River 24" varmit setup with a good scope would be my pick.. There are many versions/ prices / options that you could also entertain but they can be quite pricey and I am also trying to help you keep your wife happy...... She just needs some good exposure around some responsible shooting friends. Take her to some shooting competitions, if you take her around some idiotic friends that act crazy with a weapon then you solidify her assumptions on the malitia idea and you will have a hard road ahead of you.....Good luck with your choices and your wife but be kind, she needs to see the good side of shooting and there is alot of that if you look for it and hang around responsible shooters.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: AR15 version help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ITGuy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">all GREAT info guys. Thanks. Keep it coming.</div></div>

I don't know that there's any more information out there; and certainly, doorkicker brought attention to a perspective as he sees it, somewhat divergent to mine. Trusting that his opinion is as well informed here as can be found, perhaps you should now think out the scererios and sleep on it.

 

[Strangedays]

Re: AR15 version help

Get the 16" Barrel, I shoot steel at 600 with mine.

 

[itguy]

Re: AR15 version help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ITGuy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">all GREAT info guys. Thanks. Keep it coming.</div></div>

I don't know that there's any more information out there; and certainly, doorkicker brought attention to a perspective as he sees it, somewhat divergent to mine. Trusting that his opinion is as well informed here as can be found, perhaps you should now think out the scererios and sleep on it.
</div></div>

Agreed. I have to sit down and put it on paper. This is all great info. Its much appreciated.