Has anyone made the switch to this set up? Do you notice a difference? Or a difference to warrant the cost of this set up? Pros /cons?
Arbor press and Wilson dies
- Thread starter Nimothy
- Start date
Big thing for me was time and comfort.
Now I drop charges and seat bullets at the same time, in the comfort of the inside of the house (not the garage). It also allows for a better feel when seating.
Now I drop charges and seat bullets at the same time, in the comfort of the inside of the house (not the garage). It also allows for a better feel when seating.
I have. The consistency in seating depth and concentricity is a lot better. Set 'n forget. I haven't come up with any cons yet. I use a 21st Century press and Wilson micrometer seaters for my Dasher and BR. Couldn't be happier.
I like the idea of seating bullets In front of the tv do either of you use it at the range for depth testing etc?
That’s the way I plan on doing it. I size and mandrel on a hornady ap progressive though. It super quick and way less frustrating
i have, but i ran into minor issue with wilson dies. wilson seating die leave a ring indentation (i can felt it with my finger) of the Hornady 178grELM bullet. I neck size it with Lee Collet die which i generate the most .002 neck tension so excessive neck tension is out of the picture and i anneal every 2 firing. When i seat it with 175smk, it doesn't leave any mark. for my 338lm cutting edge bullet, the wilson die does leave a ring mark with very little indentation. My forster seating dies doesn't leave any mark on the 277gr cutting edge. it should be the seating stem problem. i did compare the COAX press vs Arbor Press for seated bullet concentricity and case neck concentricity. it turns out about the same runout 0.002~.004(the most). I use Lee Collet Neck sizer die, Forster seating die and Redding body die. i seperated the sizing step into 2 steps. If you decided go for the arbor press, make sure get the force gauge version. i sort out the ammo with excessive and least resistant (2 out of 10). My ES is around avg 8fps.
LE Wilson dies and Arbor press are all I use for my CF Bolt gun handloads. Along with my FX-120i/Autotrickler setup and my newly acquired "Annie" annealer.
Yes. I have Redding and Wilson sizing dies. An Arbor press isn't supposed to be used for sizing from what I've gathered. Sizing requires too much force.
I’ve had this problem with 2 different conventional dies, I used different seating stems in both and in the end I just gave up on the projectile, I loaded what I had left In a 300aac and went back to Berger and Sierra Bullets
How are you liking the Annie so far? I got one with the case feeder and can not see why anyone would choose to spend the money on the AMP +Cases feeder for it instead of the Annie+Case Feeder except that the AMP self calibrates, but that to me is overshadowed by A: The high cost of unit and B: The fact that you have to buy a pilot for each caliber, not a huge expense at $20 each, but I already spent so much on inserts/bushings/holders etc for presses, trimmers etc in all the calibers I load for, I do not feel the desire to buy anymore lol. I really need to get my FX-120i/AT set up soon, but I need to make space for it first.
I've only had the Annie for a few days, only enough time to set it up. I haven't run a full set of reload brass through it yet.
The AMP is a nice machine, but it's more than I'm willing to pay. Can I afford it ? Yes. Am I willing to spend that much money on what I think a machine should be (simpler and less expensive) ? No.
I've had flame type and salt bath annealers in the past and both have their pros and cons. In both of those cases, there are potential safety hazards. The salt bath set up uses a Lee solder pot that rapidly loses temp/heat, the faster you go. So, you have to sit and wait for the temp to come back up to set point.
I only anneal CF brass that I will be using in my bolt guns. Each of those calibers are limited to 50 rounds of active Lapua brass and those rounds live with each rifle. Those pieces of brass will probably be reloaded at least 20 times, minimum. I've made delrin "cups", which are brass holders that place the neck of each case at the proper elevation in the annealing coil. Sounds more complicated than it is, picture below. I'm thinking that I'll be able to anneal 50 rounds in less than 5 minutes using the Annie. The salt bath annealing would require that I wash (stainless pin, wet tumbling) the brass to remove the salt. Then the drying process........wasting more time.
I have had a problem with the circulating pump of the Annie water cooler leaking. I notified Garett @ Fluxeon and he has jumped all over it and is sending me replacement parts ASAP. He didn't dodge or deflect and immediately owned up to the problem and so far, has taken care of me.
So, would would I buy an Annie again ? Yes. Would it still be my purchase of choice for either flame, salt bath or induction annealing ? Again, Yes.
Oh, and BTW.........the loaded rounds in the pic below are simply for illustration, they're NOT going to go through the annealing process......
Not to get further off topic of arbor presses but I love my annie too but Ive found that even when running 300 pieces of dasher through outside in the middle of a texas summer day that it doesnt overheat. I saw no reason to pay for the water cooling upgrades but its really neat with all the new accessories they offer now. Maybe if I was going giraud and loading massive numbers I might water cool.
From everything I read, the water cooler was mandatory for the type of coil that I bought. I've sealed up the existing (problematic) pump with enough silicon sealant that it doesn't leak. I'll be receiving the replacement pump in the next couple of days and that should take care of the problem. With the cooler/pump, the coil stays cool to the touch. Even with the cooler, the whole set up is under/right at $600.00, which is less than half that of the AMP.
I have an arbor press with Wilson dies and also a rock chucker with Redding competition bullet seater. Awhile back I was seating bullets with each one and then comparing bullet concentricity and alway got worse readings with the arbor press/ Wilson dies combo. I wasn’t expecting that to be the case from reading about the inline dies.
I hate to derail this thread away from the arbor press, but. I have run around 200 rounds through my unit using the case feeder, and definitely echo your statement about buying the AMP. Garett is a great guy to deal with. Now I am off to start another thread on the Annie ?
I'll check out your new thread..........Garett has been great so far.......
Other than being able to quantify the seating force (via aftermarket hydraulic base), I don't see any appreciable difference between seating on my K&M arbor press with Wilson dies vs. on my Forster Co-Ax or Dillon 550B (specifically set up for 'precision' rifle ammo) using Redding Competition or Forster Ultra BR (both sleeved 'in-line' micrometer style) seating dies.
I don’t doubt you get the same run out no matter the dies as long as it’s like the ones you mentioned, for me it’s more about being mobile, and the force indicAtion so I can set aside foulers and sighters. Let’s also be honest most of us have shelves of stuff (rifles) we don’t use very often that cost more than a arbor set up even in multiple calibers
In my experience, the ones that are off enough that you would need to set them aside for 'foulers' you could almost assuredly feel them on a threaded press; I certainly could. As for 'sighters'... those really need to be just as good as your record rounds, or else they aren't going to be very useful at showing you what's going on down range.
I understand some people like the slower, more methodical feel to the whole arbor press process. That's cool; I have one and can certainly relate. But on the flip side, there are times when I'm getting ammo ready for a larger tournament and I've been doing this long enough that I'm over the need to finger every single round any more than absolutely necessary - the fewer 'touches' per round, the better.
If you want it for other reasons - being able to move some portion of the loading process inside into more 'civilized' conditions with heating, cooling, etc., or to be able to do some load development at the range - bring long-seated rounds and do a seating depth test on site, or pre-seat your bullets long before shipping ahead to a big match and seat to actual finish seating depth (defend against the UPS/airline gorillas) on site... those are all reasons I've used my arbor press and hand dies in the past. They're also all instances I've used a threaded micrometer seater (Forster, Redding, Whidden, pick your poison) in a Lee hand (nut-cracker) press just as effectively.
I'm just saying that from what I've seen, the Wilson isn't going to magically improve your ammo unless your previous setup was flawed to begin with. They're a good tool to have in the kit, though.
I understand some people like the slower, more methodical feel to the whole arbor press process. That's cool; I have one and can certainly relate. But on the flip side, there are times when I'm getting ammo ready for a larger tournament and I've been doing this long enough that I'm over the need to finger every single round any more than absolutely necessary - the fewer 'touches' per round, the better.
If you want it for other reasons - being able to move some portion of the loading process inside into more 'civilized' conditions with heating, cooling, etc., or to be able to do some load development at the range - bring long-seated rounds and do a seating depth test on site, or pre-seat your bullets long before shipping ahead to a big match and seat to actual finish seating depth (defend against the UPS/airline gorillas) on site... those are all reasons I've used my arbor press and hand dies in the past. They're also all instances I've used a threaded micrometer seater (Forster, Redding, Whidden, pick your poison) in a Lee hand (nut-cracker) press just as effectively.
I'm just saying that from what I've seen, the Wilson isn't going to magically improve your ammo unless your previous setup was flawed to begin with. They're a good tool to have in the kit, though.
I bought the K&M with gauge, Wilson dies. My findings the same as ^^^ above. Not saying it will not work, just wasn't for me, just the added time turned me off.
Even if I still owned it, it's only use would be for conformation, I get great feel seating on a coax.
Just wanted to update this in regard to the Annie. I contacted Garett and he jumped all over it, pronto like. I received a completely new cooler today with a new pump and motor. I swapped them out and everything's good.
He said that they had received some pumps that had been problematic and that I must have received one of them. He was straight up, no bullshit, no obfuscation, just straightforward honesty and worked his ass off to solve it quickly.
I'm really happy with the Annie and with Garett in particular. He's the kind of people that I like to buy from !
