Just got my rings in and noticed that the hinge pins walk rather easily. Just holding the ring in my hand and jiggling it I can get a pin to come all the way out. I'm still waiting on my scope to arrive so I can't mount and torque everything yet, which I imagine will side load the pins and hopefully keep them in place, but I'm curious if anyone has had issues with them floating around under recoil.
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Rifle Scopes ARC M10 Rings -- Potential Issue?
- Thread starter ashington
- Start date
Mine were the same way when I got them, but they are locked in solid once you get the top bolt torqued down.
I have had one of the hinge pins walk partially out while under tension, so now I push each pin out a little bit and add a *little* bit of super glue on the very end (like, last 1 mm) of the pin, and push it back in (at the time of scope installation).
So far, it hasn't inhibited the hinge function, and it has held the pins in place successfully.
So far, it hasn't inhibited the hinge function, and it has held the pins in place successfully.
I don’t like that ring/design at all. Mine also liked to walk out without my awareness but the worst part was it left ring marks on my old hensoldt scope, very faint but my seekins/nightforce rings don’t do that at same torque. That’s my only experience with arc m10 rings, maybe I had a pair of lemons as those were early productions.
It does make scope mounting an easy process and looks pretty, and lots of folks on hide really like them so I am the minority.
It does make scope mounting an easy process and looks pretty, and lots of folks on hide really like them so I am the minority.
I'm thinking perhaps you missspoke. The recommended torque for the ARC rings is 55inlbs. I don't own Seekins or Nightforce rings but because of the smaller screws with finer pitch 55inlbs would surly strip the threads and I would estimate the recommended torque might be 12 or 15 inlbs. Did you mean to say that when each of those were torqued to the recommended torque?
You're right. The torque on ARC is much higher than seekins/NF rings. Yes when I torqued the rings to ARC spec I managed to leave ring marks on the scope. I also suspect it may have to do with the scope which had FDE type coating, kinda like the RAL8000 on S&B which is known as less durable than black.
I have 3 sets of ARC rings on 3 different scopes and have never noticed any issues with ring marks, all are black. I have also never thought to look at the pins if they walk themselves out but on 300wsm, 6.5, and 6mm rifles not experienced any issues in a couple years of running them. I also have a Spuhr and like it as well but like the ease of the ARC rings.
No pin walking on my 3 pairs. No pinching on tubes either. Best rings I've come across with no scope slipping.
IME "walking pins" have usually walked before they were tightened. Once torqued, they're physically impossible to walk. Never had ring marks either.
I've had numerous ARC rings and yes, when not torqued the pins can walk but never had any walk when torqued. Also never had an issue with scope tube marks, even with the soft Premier LT tube the ARC left no marks where other rings did. ARC are my favorite rings but I also like Seekins and some others; however, if the situation permits I will always try to buy ARC.
Mine are not that easy to get out. I have had them walk a little, but never had them walk out from just working or jiggling them. I usually need a pin punch to get them out. Once torqued down they are rock solid as others have stated.
The ones I had, were literally free floating pins. I always wondered why they did not stake/flatten the ends to lock it in place post assembly. Anyway, you guys make me want to try it one more time, if it does not leave ring marks I'll be all in, I can deal with the pins one way or another.
I've never experienced any pin walking or ring marks with mine , I often move my optic between rifles ( 308 WIN & 300WM ) and see very little if any point of aim/impact shifts @ 100 yards while working up loads . Quality product IMHO !
I use these rings and pins haven’t walked. I love mine. Easier to get scopes mounted and level in my opinion. I move my scope from one gun to another and they work great
I have found that 55in lbs is just not necessary. For nightforce I use 45-50in lbs. For Swarovski I use 40in lbs and a tiny bit of rosin. The pins have never walked on me on 4 different set ups. You probably couldn’t press them out if you wanted to once they are tight. Just make sure they are flush when you tighten everything down.
What’s the point of not using 55 if you don’t see any negative effects on the optic?
Ted is pretty squared away. I’d trust his torque specs before just “trying” things and deciding the specs aren’t needed.
I appreciate all of the input guys. As others have mentioned, the pins are rock solid once the scope is mounted, and even using a drift with quite a bit of pressure I can't get them to move at all.
As for torque specs, I just pulled my MK5 off after 60 rounds to adjust the eye relief slightly and can't see any marks whatsoever on the tube from using the full 55 in-lbs.
As for torque specs, I just pulled my MK5 off after 60 rounds to adjust the eye relief slightly and can't see any marks whatsoever on the tube from using the full 55 in-lbs.
@jimp The original torque value was 65 in/lb, not 50 (though it might have been 50 at some point and I’m just not aware of it). I know because I recently took my old set off and when I went to retorque them (at 55) both rings cracked, and when I looked at my scope the rings had crushed the tube. I checked my data book for that rifle and saw I had 65 in/lb written down and thought I had screwed up when I put them on originally years ago. Checked the original package, and the instructions said 65. ARC told me they had seen this problem multiple times with their older rings, and said this was why they dropped the torque value to 55, as well as strengthened the rings in the area mine cracked. I still have a picture of my original instructions that say 65 in-lbs (7.3 N-m).
Yep, cracked rings are a known issue with older models. I have a set that split that I need to send in still. They'll get you fixed up!
This is interesting. I swear my original instructions said 50in lbs. but it's surely possible I'm wrong. I called Ted because I wanted to make sure I was reading it correctly before I put a 3k scope in them at that torque value. Since then I've installed ARC rings at least 50 times on many different scopes over the past 5-6 years. I can do it completely by feel now and then check with a torque wrench. Almost always end up at 47-50in lbs except on Swarovski I stick to 35-40 in pounds. Never once a slip, ever, even on light weight magnums. As a side note his torque value is dry (no loctite). 55 in lbs is a guideline. Ted has no way of knowing what scope or rifle you're using.
I've got the older rings, the double strap wrench style, can't remember the designation. I never used a torque wrench, just tightened till the hex key started bending and figured that was plenty of torque.
LOl, Ted told me one time that customers aren't always right. I say super geniuses aren't perfect. Us regular people have to rely on common sense more.
LOl, Ted told me one time that customers aren't always right. I say super geniuses aren't perfect. Us regular people have to rely on common sense more.
Mine have walked.
When i received them, the pins were flush as normal. Mounted them, the pins remained flush after torquing @ 55inlb in sequences.
74 rounds later, the front has walked 3mm on one side, aft, and the 3 other sides have also walked aft 1mm.
I emailed ARC 4 days ago no reply, not sure what to do.
Unmount, push back in pins, re-torque and try again? Stake this time? Stake before mount or after mount?
SEE EDIT BELOW 2 POSTS
When i received them, the pins were flush as normal. Mounted them, the pins remained flush after torquing @ 55inlb in sequences.
74 rounds later, the front has walked 3mm on one side, aft, and the 3 other sides have also walked aft 1mm.
I emailed ARC 4 days ago no reply, not sure what to do.
Unmount, push back in pins, re-torque and try again? Stake this time? Stake before mount or after mount?
SEE EDIT BELOW 2 POSTS
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I'd wait for Ted to get back with you. Bear in mind, SHOT Show starts on Tuesday, so most vendors are up to their necks in preparations, meetings, product releases and industry collaboration discussions. Just be patient; this time of year is the "summer vacation" of the firearms industry (i.e. almost no one is home at the front office; they're all in Vegas or heading there).
Update:
I loosened it, pushed back the pins to flush with my mere fingers (crazy how loose they were, you could blow on them and theyd move), re-torqued as per instructions, put down 120 rounds through the pipe and they haven't budged yet. Im thinking its gtg for now.
I loosened it, pushed back the pins to flush with my mere fingers (crazy how loose they were, you could blow on them and theyd move), re-torqued as per instructions, put down 120 rounds through the pipe and they haven't budged yet. Im thinking its gtg for now.
Check the third post in this thread; I now use just a touch of superglue on the pins to keep them from walking.
I think most people have them walk when aligning their scopes during mounting and never realize it. I own 2 pairs and have never had them walk but did notice one time one was sticking out after I had mounted it. It's pretty easy to miss unless you're looking for it. At 55 in/lbs there should be plenty of tension to hold the pin in. If that worried staking them would be easy
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