ARC Nucleus vs. Bighorn Origin

[Afkirby]

These two new “budget” actions have me thinking of getting a new rifle. I’m on a budget and I like the idea of swappable boltheads and user serviceable barrels. Anybody have the down low on these new action? I know they’re not even released yet but I figure they’ll be the two a lot of guys will be looking at.

-Kirby

 

[Chili47]

i pre-ordered the nucleus. But i will also be picking up a TL-3 next month. That is the only reason i didn't preorder a Origin. Basically your getting a steel receiver with separate lug. Both have swapable bolt heads. 3lug vs 2 lug. The bighorn is basically a TL3 with cheaper parts. Same control round feed.

 

[AF_TT]

I pre-ordered the Origin, no particular reason either. I'd like to see others input as well.

 

[Robby0931]

I put the deposit down on the Nucleus, interested in the different features it brings. Have a TL3 and Origin just doesnt seem like a step forward. Secondly, a projected April delivery works better with my limited patience than August...

 

[5RWill]

My brother pre-ordered the Origin. After seeing the announcement i convinced him to do so over a tikka that we thought we were going to use. The Nucleus is more innovative IMHO but when it comes to an action it's all about personal preference IMHO. 90% of them plain work. We have a TL3 and SR3 for 750$ a TL3 with a pinned lug is a steal. I quite like the bighorns, so that's what i pushed him towards. Though it was also cheaper.

 

[Jethro3898]

I have been wanting to build a new rifle and have been setting money aside. I was a few weeks away from ordering a TL3. When the Nucleus was released I couldn’t pass up the price.....the prebuy especially is a pretty amazing deal. I’ve always been intrigued by ARC’s engineering, even if I didn’t necessarily understand all of it. I had never entertained a Mausingfield simply because of the price and because there are so many other really good (and less expensive) options on the market. However, the timing of the Nucleus was perfect for me and it was a deal I contemplated for about 2 whole hours. I preordered the Nucleus with the understanding that if I didn’t like it for some reason when it comes in (highly doubtful), I could likely sell it and at the very least recuperate my initial price considering the street price will climb after this month.

A day or two later and here comes the Origin.

Freaking crap!

Regardless, this is a great time to be in this hobby. Variety is the spice of life and kudos to both ARC and Bighorn for putting amazing custom actions on the market at a very affordable price point. I just wonder how these new offerings will affect the Mausingfield and TL3 purchases.

I wish that both companies would create either a video or maybe even a chart of a side-by-side contrast between both actions (Nucleus to Mausingfield and Origin to TL3). Sometimes you can get lost in the features of one specific action and not understand why the more expensive option is better because there is quite a price difference between each action and their “big bother”.

 

[Possumpete]

I have been wanting to build a new rifle and have been setting money aside. I was a few weeks away from ordering a TL3. When the Nucleus was released I couldn’t pass up the price.....the prebuy especially is a pretty amazing deal. I’ve always been intrigued by ARC’s engineering, even if I didn’t necessarily understand all of it. I had never entertained a Mausingfield simply because of the price and because there are so many other really good (and less expensive) options on the market. However, the timing of the Nucleus was perfect for me and it was a deal I contemplated for about 2 whole hours. I preordered the Nucleus with the understanding that if I didn’t like it for some reason when it comes in (highly doubtful), I could likely sell it and at the very least recuperate my initial price considering the street price will climb after this month.

A day or two later and here comes the Origin.

Freaking crap!

Regardless, this is a great time to be in this hobby. Variety is the spice of life and kudos to both ARC and Bighorn for putting amazing custom actions on the market at a very affordable price point. I just wonder how these new offerings will affect the Mausingfield and TL3 purchases.

I wish that both companies would create either a video or maybe even a chart of a side-by-side contrast between both actions (Nucleus to Mausingfield and Origin to TL3). Sometimes you can get lost in the features of one specific action and not understand why the more expensive option is better because there is quite a price difference between each action and their “big bother”.

I too was on the verge of ordering a TL3,when I came across the Nucleus and had to jump in and try one

 

[BoilerUP]

What an incredible time to be in the precision rifle game.

Saw the Nucleus and was ready to preorder, then saw the PVA shouldered barrel GB for Nucleus and thought DEFINITELY YEA, then saw the Bighorn Origin and thought "Maybe I should do that instead", then PVA put out the John Hancock rifle which is a crazy value proposition no matter how you look at things.

Decisions, decisions...

 

[Sig Marine]

Both actions are going to be game changers for the shooter wanting to build on a budget. I personally like the “Origin” since I have TL-2s and 3s and have ordered one for a build I’m doing for the wife. It will be interesting to see how Stiller responds to the competition.

 

[AF_TT]

I'd like to see if Stiller makes a price point action as well, they are the cheapest custom available as it is I think. What's great is we are just now coming into the golden age of long range shooting. Just a few years ago the cost to be competitive was out of reach for many to most people. When these actions are readily available, apart from clone purposes, I don't know why you'd go with an action that will take truing etc. from a cost perspective at least.

 

[TimeWillTell]

It is very exciting for sure. And both make the idea of truing a factory 700 a lot less appealing imo.

 

[rookie7]

These new actions are machined from chrome molly steel instead of stainless. Is it that big of a deal that it isn't stainless? Aside from the corrosion resistance if left uncoated, does stainless have other properties that make it better than chrome molly i.e. stiffer, stronger etc. ?

 

[BLKWLFK9]

The nucleus offers a higher feature set on the dollar. Both will be amazing actions but the nucleus seems to take the cake

 

[rookie7]

I stand corrected on the Nucleus. The Mausingfield is not stainless either - just checked.

 

[BlackFenix]

I am excited about both! I will wait to see which one really shines but the Hancock Rifle is great on it's own.

 

[Sheldon N]

The bayonet firing pin arrangement of the Bighorn Origin is a really sweet feature, plus the bolt heads are interchangeable with the TL3 if you ever decided to add another action down the road.

I'm already set with my TL3's but if I were ordering I'd be more interested in the Origin, plus it's $100 cheaper on the preorder price.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I am excited about both! I will wait to see which one really shines but the Hancock Rifle is great on it's own.

Already placed my deposit on the Hancock

 

[5RWill]

For 750$ right now the origin is bar none IMO the best action for the money. You literally can't doctor up a tikka or remington for less with half those features. The Nucleus is still awesome though too and had i had the money i'd probably try and get one, see if Ted would give me a swept bolt handle to mimic my tempest with that 72 degree throw.

 

[andrewsben]

These new actions are machined from chrome molly steel instead of stainless. Is it that big of a deal that it isn't stainless? Aside from the corrosion resistance if left uncoated, does stainless have other properties that make it better than chrome molly i.e. stiffer, stronger etc. ?

I'm also interested in this specific aspect. Hopefully someone with can chime in.

 

[longrange2]

I was saving up for a TL3, but I think I am going to preorder an Origin. So many great choices becoming available.

 

[Carolina Hill Billy]

Really wanted the Christensen Arms chassis rifle but these prices really make you think.......

 

[NateVA]

I'm also interested in this specific aspect. Hopefully someone with can chime in.

Unless I'm way off the mark on my memory, chrome moly is harder than stainless steel. The downside is corrosion resistance and it's harder to machine.

 

[NateVA]

Unless I'm way off the mark on my memory, chrome moly is harder than stainless steel. The downside is corrosion resistance and it's harder to machine.

I can't seem to find an edit button on these new forums. I believe Chad said it's actually easier to work with chrome moly because it's a lot more predictable after heat treatment. So the downside is corrosion resistance.

 

[andrewsben]

Unless I'm way off the mark on my memory, chrome moly is harder than stainless steel. The downside is corrosion resistance and it's harder to machine.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Eagle1899]

I called and talked to Ted directly about the Nucleus action. I asked him every question under the sun.... Ted pulls no punches when it comes to direct questions that's for sure!!! I have a TL3.... I ordered a Nucleus.

 

[Skunkworx]

I called and talked to Ted directly about the Nucleus action. I asked him every question under the sun.... Ted pulls no punches when it comes to direct questions that's for sure!!! I have a TL3.... I ordered a Nucleus.

Summary of questions asked with Teds replies?

 

[SodbusterOH]

These new actions are machined from chrome molly steel instead of stainless. Is it that big of a deal that it isn't stainless? Aside from the corrosion resistance if left uncoated, does stainless have other properties that make it better than chrome molly i.e. stiffer, stronger etc. ?

The Nucleus seems to ship already Nitrided. The Mausingfield is DLC'd.

 

[Sierra770]

Summary of questions asked with Teds replies?

I'm interested as well. The description is pretty detailed, but I would like to know what else was learned.

 

[308pirate]

does stainless have other properties that make it better than chrome molly i.e. stiffer, stronger etc. ?

Absolutely no metallurgical advantages to stainless steel (416/416R) over ordnance grade low alloy carbon steels. Low alloy carbon steels can be manipulated to have higher tensile and yield strengths than 416 but the differences are academic in the real world of firearms.

If you manage to fuck up a rifle made of 416 stainless steel by stressing the steel to failure, you surely would have done the same to one made of 4140, 4150, or 4340.

Shit that is just not worth debating, IMPO.

 

[308pirate]

And both make the idea of truing a factory 700 a lot less appealing imo.

I'd say they make truing a 700 pointless, to be honest.

 

[TimeWillTell]

The Nucleus seems to ship already Nitrided. The Mausingfield is DLC'd.

The origin is also nitrided bolt body and action, dlc'd bolt heads. Both very good options.

 

[TimeWillTell]

I'd say they make truing a 700 pointless, to be honest.

Yeah I agree I was just trying to be a little PC about it for the tried 700 guys.

 

[NWnewguy]

To sort of answer the question about whether stainless is better than Chromoly for making actions, there is a ton of reading out there on different blends of steel and what each one is good for. The only real benefit that I could see is that the stainless has a little better corrosion resistance, but it's not a lot different. Anecdotally, if stainless was better, Ted would have made the Mausingfield out of it. Where you can get into trouble quickly with stainless is having the bolt and body machined from the same type or hardness of stainless. There's a bunch of guys out there with super great looking BAT actions that are galled from this issue. Not that BAT is unique in this regard or that I am picking on them, they just happen to make really nice and tight dimensioned actions and if not greased regularly, they will gall. I have one of the first Mausingfields that came out and I have never done anything to it for a coating and I lived in the high humidity environment of the Pacific Northwest for three years after getting it and I have never seen corrosion of any kind on my MF.

In short, I don't think being made from 4340 is a negative. It could be argued that it is a positive, but I encourage you to look around for yourself and develop an informed opinion of your own. As far as the two actions that just pre-released; what a time it is to be a consumer. I don't think you could go wrong with either of them. That being said I pre-ordered the Nucleus because it's more interesting to me.

 

[TimeWillTell]

With the nitride process it kind of makes the corrosion discussion a moot point and probably actually swings in favor of the nitrided over bare stainless.

 

[Supersubes]

Kudos to both for putting out more cost friendly action. More companies should follow suit. I already have a tl3, and the nucleus looks more interesting, so I preordered it over the Origin.

 

[Ledzep]

These new actions are machined from chrome molly steel instead of stainless. Is it that big of a deal that it isn't stainless? Aside from the corrosion resistance if left uncoated, does stainless have other properties that make it better than chrome molly i.e. stiffer, stronger etc. ?

There are a ton of different types of steels. Even a ton of different types of stainless steels, and there are a ton of overlapping properties of them all. That said, I think the biggest influence is how the particular steel is heat treated. That's what makes the difference between 50ksi yield strength, and 200+ksi yield strength with the exact same blend of steel.

On the whole, stainless steels are not as strong because the chromium content is pushed up to form protective chromium oxides on the surface. The chromium isn't as strong as iron. That said you can certainly have martensitic or precipitate hardening stainless steels that are much stronger than certain non-stainless steels. Again, this is very dependent on heat treat, geometry etc. Without writing a book, material variability is a real thing, Carbon content is the main driver of strength, and proper heat treat typically influences properties more than the type of alloy. (ETA: Strength isn't the ONLY thing to look at. Toughness, wear resistance, etc.. can also be extremely important).

Corrosion resistance is the primary reason you see stainless steel actions. I think with Cerakote, Nitride, proper maintenance, it's mostly a non-issue. I prefer chrome-moly or alloy steels to stainless for the most part because stainless in most cases has a higher susceptibility to galling/wear which I find more worrisome than whatever minor surface oxidization might happen between maintenance cycles.

For barrels, stainless is really nice. Not having to worry about bore condition/pitting etc. is worth it to me. Actions/bolts/etc., ehh not so much an issue.

 

[bohem]

Comment Redacted.
@Ledzep did a better job explaining it. I'll just do the ARFCOM thing and leave it with

^^^^^ what he said.

 

[TheOE800]

Really wanted the Christensen Arms chassis rifle but these prices really make you think.......

It really does.

 

[Eagle1899]

I asked Ted a lot of questions..... highlights below

Is it easy to stall/jam the bolt at the rear of the stroke? - No
Will it feed reliably from his magazine? - Yes
Will I need to knock the corner of the extractor to help feeding and stop it from gouging my brass? - No
Will dusty dirty conditions cause problems? - No
Will he be offering a BarLoc for it? - Yes, up on website
Will different bolt handles be available? - Yes

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Following. I also put down a deposit on a Nucleus and am intrigued by PVA's shouldered prefits.

 

[just browsing]

Also jumped on the Nucleus train with a shouldered Barloc. Too good to pass up.

Origin and Curtis Vector also look legit. Hancock is probably a “best value” for a full build at this point.

All I know is April needs to hurry the F up!

 

[Another Casual]

With these actions both out in the wild, I figured I would give this thread a bump and see if anyone could provide some hands on comparison.

 

[nrspence]

My rock creek 1:7 twist .224 barrel is getting spun up on my origin action today.

 

[flyer]

I've had my barrels for a few months. With the Barloc it's a DIY install of a Savage pre-fit and also a budget switch barrel setup.

I get to pick up my action soon (California wait period...) And I should have a complete rifle put together shortly afterward.

 

[andrewsben]

I have my first nucleus put together (minus scope), second is waiting on barrel still. Have a tenacity build just about done, as well as an origin build. Will try to do comparisons once I have everything together and shooting.

 

[rookie7]

I have my first nucleus put together (minus scope), second is waiting on barrel still. Have a tenacity build just about done, as well as an origin build. Will try to do comparisons once I have everything together and shooting.

You have all the new toys! Definitely looking forward to your assessment of each action. Keep us posted! thanks

 

[andrewsben]

You have all the new toys! Definitely looking forward to your assessment of each action. Keep us posted! thanks

yeah, also made the mistake of getting a kelbly black bear when i found sn 26 in stock. That thing is sweet and built like a tank. Going to not do anything with it till after I play with the other actions as it is classed a little higher and would damper my thoughts about the others.

 

[andrewsben]

Nucleus short action .473 with x caliber 6mm creedmoor in grayboe renegade with ptg bottom metal and tacsport trigger.

Origin magnum bolt face, 6.5 saum, krg bravo, tt diamond.

Tenacity, 6xc criterion, grayboe renegade with custom made adjustable check test, ptg bottom metal and tacsport trigger

 

[Dai Bando]

Very nice budget builds Andrew!

That Tenacity sure looks bright

 

[andrewsben]

Thanks dai. I really like the tenacity. It has a duller finish than the rest of the defiance line, just fished with different kind of tumbling material, I polished it slightly to see how it would look. Pretty happy with it so dont think I will do a mirror finish on it.


If only it had mechanical ejector. But with badrock rifles using this action, well variant of it, and having control round feed and mechanical ejector it might not be long before available on tenacity. But the badrock rifle itself looks like a heck of a deal on a fully build defiance based rifle. Dont think they have announced, possibly haven't sourced, the barrel manufacturer yet though.