ARC Nucleus w/Barloc

[riverrat13]

I know there have been several threads to date discussing the Nucleus Action/Barloc combo, and I feel as though I have read through the majority of them. With that said, I still have a few questions.

1) What barrel manufactures will make a shouldered barrel with the necessary thread/shank length for the Barloc? Has the Nucleus been out long enough that the big boys would have ran into this request before (Shillen, Bartlien, Proof, etc...)? How big of request would that be for a barrel manufacter?

2) If I were to swap barrels from barrel #1 to barrel #2, then back to the barrel #1. How would that effect reloading? Could I maintain a constant COAL, or would I have to re-measure, and reseat bullets to the new COAL to maintain consistent distance to the lands, every time I remove the barrel?

3) Using the Barloc replaces need to send in your action and barrel to a gunsmith to be chambered, correct? So it is saving you roughly $300 + shipping, and the lost time associated with that process for each barrel you use. Am I understanding this correctly?

4) What other actions are truly compatible with the Barloc?

 

[ChadL]

1). I know Patriot Valley Arms is making barrels for the shouldered barloc, but I don't know of others, yet (key word).

2). As long as you head space correctly it should have zero impact on reloading. Your poi will most likely shift.

3). Yes, you order a shouldered prefit. In my case I just order a savage prefit ( I have the non-shouldered barloc). The barrel comes ready for you to install and set the head space. You understand correctly. There is a cost savings and more importantly, IMHO, there is a big time savings.

4. Any action that is threaded for a savage barrel is compatible.

 

[Supersubes]

1. PVA is the only one I know of, but more are sure to come on line.

2. You’d need to be consistent with how you install each barrel, in order to maintain consistent headspace dimensions. That will not affect where you should be seating. Those dimensions are all machined into the front of the chamber.

3. Not really. The $300 install cost of a barrel Is the machine work, which you’d still be paying for. In the case of PVA, you are saving some money because he machines to a spec, and doesn’t need to do the fitting to your specific action. It saves him lots of time. This is why his prefits are very reasonably priced. What you’re really saving is not having any real loss of use, as you noted.

 

[hereinaz]

I know there have been several threads to date discussing the Nucleus Action/Barloc combo, and I feel as though I have read through the majority of them. With that said, I still have a few questions.

1) What barrel manufactures will make a shouldered barrel with the necessary thread/shank length for the Barloc? Has the Nucleus been out long enough that the big boys would have ran into this request before (Shillen, Bartlien, Proof, etc...)? How big of request would that be for a barrel manufacter?

I think you need to contact some of the barrel guys like PVA who are cutting them to fit. I don't know of any manufacturers that are running them. I haven't looked though.

2) If I were to swap barrels from barrel #1 to barrel #2, then back to the barrel #1. How would that effect reloading? Could I maintain a constant COAL, or would I have to re-measure, and reseat bullets to the new COAL to maintain consistent distance to the lands, every time I remove the barrel?

If you return everything back to same/same you should not have to adjust reloads. Using witness marks on the barrel, lug, and action is what I have used in the past. Or, use a torque wrench every time, with clean threads.

3) Using the Barloc replaces need to send in your action and barrel to a gunsmith to be chambered, correct? So it is saving you roughly $300 + shipping, and the lost time associated with that process for each barrel you use. Am I understanding this correctly?

Yes, you save money. I don't pay a gunsmith to run my Savage prefits with the barrel nut. And, they are sub .5 moa with handloads. I use the Barloc with barrel nut.

4) What other actions are truly compatible with the Barloc?

If it uses Remington or Savage (small shank) barrels, it is compatible. I don't know for other factory rifles, that depends entirely on the shank size.

See my answers with the questions above.

Food for thought, if you are going to get a shouldered barrel, you can buy them to torque right onto your action without a Barloc. You can have flats milled on the barrel and simply tighten the barrel on easily. I would do that if I bought a barrel with a shoulder, instead of the Barloc.

 

[physguy88]

I have an additional question to add to OP's questions. If I get the barloc with the barrel nut, plus an action that takes savage small shank precuts (eg nucleus, origin or tl3) then I can just use any prefit small shank savage barrel without additional gunsmiting services as long as I use a correct go/no-go gauges to set the chambering? Is my understanding correct?

 

[riverrat13]

Food for thought, if you are going to get a shouldered barrel, you can buy them to torque right onto your action without a Barloc. You can have flats milled on the barrel and simply tighten the barrel on easily. I would do that if I bought a barrel with a shoulder, instead of the Barloc.

You are saying you would purchase the PVA Nucleus Pre-Fit Barrel and have the guys a PVA mill flats at the end of the barrel? What is the benefit of this vs. the Bar-Loc? If I am using a Pre-Fit Barrel, wouldn't I still need an action wrench and torque wrench and crowsfoot to change the barrel vs. just a torque wrench with an Allen Key for the Barloc?

With the Barloc, I can use the same tools I use to mount a scope to install my barrel...

 

[Supersubes]

You are saying you would purchase the PVA Nucleus Pre-Fit Barrel and have the guys a PVA mill flats at the end of the barrel? What is the benefit of this vs. the Bar-Loc? If I am using a Pre-Fit Barrel, wouldn't I still need an action wrench and torque wrench and crowsfoot to change the barrel vs. just a torque wrench with an Allen Key for the Barloc?

With the Barloc, I can use the same tools I use to mount a scope to install my barrel...

Because the tourqued shoulder install will return to zero better than the barloc would. I haven’t used my barloc yet, but I feel pretty good that they won’t return. Nothing against the barloc, they just weren’t designed to do that. I could be wrong.

 

[Supersubes]

I have an additional question to add to OP's questions. If I get the barloc with the barrel nut, plus an action that takes savage small shank precuts (eg nucleus, origin or tl3) then I can just use any prefit small shank savage barrel without additional gunsmiting services as long as I use a correct go/no-go gauges to set the chambering? Is my understanding correct?

Yes

 

[riverrat13]

RTZ is not that important to me, as long as I am close. Re-Zeroing and adjusting my Zero Stop on my scope is not very time consuming, and I may waste 5 rounds to accomplish it...

What is the benefit of the Savage Pre-Fit Barloc's vs the Shouldered Barlocs? More barrel manufacturers offer barrels?

 

[physguy88]

RTZ is not that important to me, as long as I am close. Re-Zeroing and adjusting my Zero Stop on my scope is not very time consuming, and I may waste 5 rounds to accomplish it...

What is the benefit of the Savage Pre-Fit Barloc's vs the Shouldered Barlocs? More barrel manufacturers offer barrels?

There seems to be ones readily available from several vendors:

MidwayUSA: https://tinyurl.com/y9fdtxqv
Cabelas: https://tinyurl.com/y7zypla9
https://www.stockysstocks.com/barrels/proof-research-barrels/new-pre-fit-savage-barrels.html
http://www.bugholes.com/searchresults.asp?Search=savage&Submit=Submit
http://northlandshooterssupply.com/barrels/criterion-savage/
https://patriotvalleyarms.com/savage-small-shank-prefit-barrel/

and probably many others.

Main advantage from what I understand is that manufacturer or gunsmith doesn't need measurements for your rifle. They just make the threads to the Savage pre-fit specs, and ship it to you.

My understanding for the shouldered barrel is that those still have to be fit to your rifle. The Barloc in that case just offers ease mounting and unmounting, though I'm not sure.

 

[Supersubes]

There seems to be ones readily available from several vendors:

MidwayUSA: https://tinyurl.com/y9fdtxqv
Cabelas: https://tinyurl.com/y7zypla9
https://www.stockysstocks.com/barrels/proof-research-barrels/new-pre-fit-savage-barrels.html
http://www.bugholes.com/searchresults.asp?Search=savage&Submit=Submit
http://northlandshooterssupply.com/barrels/criterion-savage/
https://patriotvalleyarms.com/savage-small-shank-prefit-barrel/

and probably many others.

Main advantage from what I understand is that manufacturer or gunsmith doesn't need measurements for your rifle. They just make the threads to the Savage pre-fit specs, and ship it to you.

My understanding for the shouldered barrel is that those still have to be fit to your rifle. The Barloc in that case just offers ease mounting and unmounting, though I'm not sure.

No, a shouldered barloc does not need fitting to individual action.

 

[aBetterTomorrow]

BarLoc Shouldered version has to have an additional length cut to allow for the BarLoc

PVA says they just punch it in a computer and for example can cut an Origin Barloc Shouldered Version (because they know the length needed to add for the BarLoc)

Other gunsmith said they can do shouldered BarLoc version if I sent them a BarLoc with my barrel because they haven't handled one yet.

Once you know the length you need to add for the BarLoc on a shouldered version vs using the Nut version that uses standard pre-fit savage lengths - the difference is the shouldered version is one less thing to tighten (the barrel nut) and I guess it looks cleaner with no nut.

BarLoc for any Savage Small Shank and Large Shank and ARC Mausingfield and Rem-age pre-fit barrels

 

[chrismartin]

What is the benefit of the Savage Pre-Fit Barloc's vs the Shouldered Barlocs? More barrel manufacturers offer barrels?

The benefit from a shouldered barrel is only apparent when comparing it with barrel nut barrels like the savage pre-fit barrels linked above.

To install a standard pre-fit savage (barrel nut type) barrel, you need to lock down the barrel in a good vise, spin on the action, set the headspace with a go gauge and then torque down the barrel nut appropriately (then I double check with a no go gauge).

To install a shouldered barrel (pre-fit shouldered), the headspace will have been set by the gunsmith/manufacturer, so you just need to torque down the action to the barrel and typically you would double check with a Go and No-Go gauge as a safety check. You will need a good barrel vise and (typically) a good action wrench for the particular action you are dealing with (unless you have a generic one) due to the amount of torque you need to apply to the action.

Really, only the top-tier actions that hold really tight tolerances can be shouldered for a pre-fit barrel. An off the shelf Remington 700 action can't really be done. For the Big Horn or ARC actions (and other good ones), that's where you'll see the shouldered pre-fits.

For a pre-fit shouldered, barloc barrel, the holding torque for the barrel is applied by the barloc cross bolt. So, you don't need to apply a bunch of torque to the barrel/action, which reduces the need for a strong barrel vise, action wrench, etc. I would still want to double check the headspace for safety (go and no go gauges for example) But you should be able to get away with a cheaper barrel vise and possibly none at all.

For the non-shouldered (savage barrel nut) barrel nut barloc version, the install is similar to the Savage barrel nut type install, but again, you don't need the torque applied to the barrel/action/savage barrel nut. You spin the action onto the barrel, set the headspace with the go gauge, tighten the barloc nut down until the appropriate gap in the collar is set, then tighten the cross bolt.

So, the pre-fit shouldered barloc barrels should be a little easier and less finicky than the savage barrel nut-type barrels and would have a better return to "zero" if you need to pull the barrel. The savage barrel nut barrels with a barloc barrel nut will be a little more finicky to install because you have to set the headspace with a go gauge and test it before you lock everything down. The "return to zero" (and headspace "return to same") would not be as good unless you are really good at tightening down the action onto the gauge the same every time.

For all of these various systems, I like to recommend testing with both go and no go gauges. Some people feel safe with just a go.

All that said, I haven't installed a barloc type system, this is just what I've gathered from my previous barrel installs (Remington shouldered, Rem/Age and Savage barrel nut barrel installs) and the ARC videos on the Barloc system. I don't know that you would not need a barrel vise and action wrench to get the barrel where you really want it with the shouldered version, but I do know that you wouldn't need to put 80 ft/lbs (or similar) on the barrel and action or barrel nut.

Personally, I'll probably be going with a savage barrel nut barloc rather than the shouldered barloc. There is (currently) more vendors producing savage pre-fits that will work with it than are producing pre-fit shouldered barrels. I'd have my choice of all the ones listed above (plus more like Hawk Hill, Proof, etc) that may be in stock and ready to ship. I also already have a great barrel vise and tools to do it.

 

[flyer]

RTZ is not that important to me, as long as I am close. Re-Zeroing and adjusting my Zero Stop on my scope is not very time consuming, and I may waste 5 rounds to accomplish it...

What is the benefit of the Savage Pre-Fit Barloc's vs the Shouldered Barlocs? More barrel manufacturers offer barrels?

The best return to zero type of systems are indexed tool holders on CNC machines, they have a tapered body that gets pulled in to a tapered spindle and everything is as precise as the grinding job of the tool holder and spindle and both are hardened.

A barrel isn't hardened, so strike one on reliable return to zero on any barrel.

On a shouldered barrel tightened against a recoil lug or receiver face, the geometry isn't conical so that's strike two.

On a Barloc, the contact points are kind of conical but also floating and essentially the helix of the thread in the receiver is the reference surface. To me it seems like the least shitty way to get return to zero short of coming up with something much more like an indexing tool holder.

I have high hopes for the system and will be testing it for return to zero after I get my hand loads figured out.

Also, I can't think of one advantage that a shouldered barrel would have for RTZ.

 

[flyer]

A barrel nut Barloc might be more fiddly the first time but I plan on using Loktite on the Barloc barrel nut so that it doesn't move subsequently.

I'm also going to remove the cap screw from the tensioner and install it backward so I can spread the tensioner to make installation easier (I'll use a feeler gague to accomplish that).

 

[physguy88]

No, a shouldered barloc does not need fitting to individual action.

BarLoc Shouldered version has to have an additional length cut to allow for the BarLoc

PVA says they just punch it in a computer and for example can cut an Origin Barloc Shouldered Version (because they know the length needed to add for the BarLoc)

.....

Thanks for clarifying. besides PVA, are there any barrel makers who are already set up to make the shouldered barrels for ARC and Bighorn?

 

[Supersubes]

I’m sure LRI could do them as well. Since the barloc is essentially a moveable shoulder, any barrel maker that can follow the print should be able to make one, without fitting to an individual action.

 

[memilanuk]

A barrel nut Barloc might be more fiddly the first time but I plan on using Loktite on the Barloc barrel nut so that it doesn't move subsequently.

I'd be *very* interested in your results - one way or the other - with that. I'm entertaining some ideas along the same lines, but I'm a ways from being able to implement / test.