ARDs vs Sunguard vs Shemagh

[Burdy]

I feel like I learned a lesson this weekend that I should have already learned long ago, but alas, I have questions.

I ran into an issue at a competition this weekend running an LPVO where the timing of my particular stage run was exactly when the sun peaked over the berm directly into my eyes. It turned what should have a been a stage that was built for my strengths into, well, a stage failure. I could not find anything and spent valuable seconds trying to obtain a sight picture. I typically wear a 5 panel "runners" cap when shooting that has a very soft bill that I can flip up and out of the way or let drop for sun. I was attempting to shoot with one hand on the rifle and the other hand cupping and curving the bill of that hat around my scope objective, I was trying everything, but very little success.

On my drive home, obviously I am trying to figure out how to fix this issue in the future. The first that came up was to throw a Shemagh in my pack to completely cover my head and objective. Then I started thinking about the Tenebraex caps, which admittedly, I have never used. I am aware that the design is typically to reduce reflection from the opposing end, but I thought it would have to help with my situation as well. Then when I looked online for them, I see they have "SunGuard" options as well. Finally, I thought of just trying a longer sunshade.

Can anyone speak to the effectiveness of the ARD vs Sunguard in this type of situation? Is just a longer sunshade a better option? Should I just try the Shemagh first/in conjunction? I am a serial "experimenter" (that's not a real word) so I plan on trying most of these options out, but if I can get started/pointed in the right direction or listen to those that have already solved the issue that would be great.

 

[Glassaholic]

Your post captured my attention when I saw the word Shemagh as I thought you were actually covering your objective with it and wondered how on earth that worked.

Couple questions for you, was the issue that the sight picture was ghosting on you (turning white) or was it the fact that the sun was literally being magnified and blinding your eyes? If it was the ghosting then I would say there are different scopes that handle flare/halation differently (some better than others); however, if it was the sun blinding you the only thing I know of to help is to reduce the aperture and it's possible to do this with a standard plastic cap, start by drilling a 1/16" hole in the center and look at the sun, does it reduce the brightness enough, if too much you can keep drilling larger and larger holes until you find the right aperture. March makes an aperture reduction ring for their scopes that reduces maybe 50% of the light (thereby increasing DOF) but that is not nearly enough for direct sunlight. An ARD (Anti Reflection Device) also reduces the amount of light, but the ARD was designed to reduced the reflection signature off the glass surface of the front objective (thus giving away your location to the enemy), I've never tried to use an ARD with direct sunlight to see how well it does but since I have one sitting here I'm going to go try - nope, still way too bright, I drilled an 1/8" hole in a spare cap and that was still pretty bright in direct sun so 1/16 probably the way to go. This latter method with the tiny hole in a cap does make eyebox a lot more finicky but serves its purpose in a pinch...

 

[Burdy]

Your post captured my attention when I saw the word Shemagh as I thought you were actually covering your objective with it and wondered how on earth that worked.

Couple questions for you, was the issue that the sight picture was ghosting on you (turning white) or was it the fact that the sun was literally being magnified and blinding your eyes? If it was the ghosting then I would say there are different scopes that handle flare/halation differently (some better than others); however, if it was the sun blinding you the only thing I know of to help is to reduce the aperture and it's possible to do this with a standard plastic cap, start by drilling a 1/16" hole in the center and look at the sun, does it reduce the brightness enough, if too much you can keep drilling larger and larger holes until you find the right aperture. March makes an aperture reduction ring for their scopes that reduces maybe 50% of the light (thereby increasing DOF) but that is not nearly enough for direct sunlight. An ARD (Anti Reflection Device) also reduces the amount of light, but the ARD was designed to reduced the reflection signature off the glass surface of the front objective (thus giving away your location to the enemy), I've never tried to use an ARD with direct sunlight to see how well it does but since I have one sitting here I'm going to go try - nope, still way too bright, I drilled an 1/8" hole in a spare cap and that was still pretty bright in direct sun so 1/16 probably the way to go. This latter method with the tiny hole in a cap does make eyebox a lot more finicky but serves its purpose in a pinch...

Yes, the issue was a form of ghosting. A haze like flare that rendered the optic mostly useless. I was thinking the ARD or "Sunguard" may help if there was any angle at all to the incoming light, perhaps a very deep ARD could reduce this issue down to the even the smallest angle but wasn't sure.

Great idea on making a small aperture. I never thought of that. Works well enough on NV products so I certainly understand the concept. Now that I think of it, an ARD with a cover and small hole may really work well. I also have another idea that is utilized on NV as well. You have my gears turning. Thanks for the response.

 

[Glassaholic]

When dealing with sunlight completely centered there won't be much you can do but like you said if there is any angle to the light the ARD should help. That "haze like flare" could be addressed by a different scope that is designed to manage halation better, but trying to find the scope that does this may prove difficult and switching out a favorite scope for something that happens rarely may not be ideal either. Curious what you end up doing/finding that works...

 

[dgheriani]

I've run into this a bunch over the years as one of my shooting spots faces to the West so you get a lot of sun in your face when shooting towards the end of the day. A long sunshade works better than an ARD and a shemagh or even just a tshirt covering your head and the ocular definitely helps. Not sure how well the shemagh or tshirt woud work in your use case (assuming LPVO so kinda dynamic) as my case is more prone or tripod shooting. I never thought of having a cap with a smaller aperture for the objective but that would probably help.

 

[Burdy]

When dealing with sunlight completely centered there won't be much you can do but like you said if there is any angle to the light the ARD should help. That "haze like flare" could be addressed by a different scope that is designed to manage halation better, but trying to find the scope that does this may prove difficult and switching out a favorite scope for something that happens rarely may not be ideal either. Curious what you end up doing/finding that works...

I am moving to the S&B short dot for next season so we will see what kind of difference glass quality makes, maybe there is better glass but it's not possible to spend more. I'm hoping @koshkin will also chime in here with some light leak/scatter science/voodoo advice that can help out. I do think completely covering my head and part of my scope would have definitely made a difference.

 

[koshkin]

I am moving to the S&B short dot for next season so we will see what kind of difference glass quality makes, maybe there is better glass but it's not possible to spend more. I'm hoping @koshkin will also chime in here with some light leak/scatter science/voodoo advice that can help out. I do think completely covering my head and part of my scope would have definitely made a difference.

Voodoo is outside my expertise, but I can offer a few suggestions on flare. I should probably do a video on this, so thanks for the idea. Here is the gyst of it.

There are a couple of things happening at the same time.
1) excessive amount of light from the sun bounces around and creates veiling glare. You can try an ARD or sunshade or a significant aperture constriction to deal with that. While for most applications I a a big fan of ARDs, you want to be careful with them on LPVOs. On 1x, the depth of field of LPVOs is sufficiently deep that the ARD is not perfectly defocused and has a detrimental effect on the image. Sunshades do not have that issue
2) the sun hits your face (eyes, forehead, etc) and reflects into the eyepiece of the scope. If you are wearing shooting glasses, they make the most difference for this effect. A shemagh you can throw over your head and the eyepiece should help with that. A had a shot on an elk a couple of years ago where the sun made the elk 300 yards away invisible. Taking my glasses off cleared up the image enough to enable me to take the shot.

S&B Dual CC resists this effect better than most scopes I have seen, but not optic is immune to it.

ILya

 

[Zolar]

I've had a shemgah for many years and I use it almost every time I'm outdoors. I cut a 8" strip off and wet it , place it around my neck. Caint imagine not having one. Think it's about time to get a new one.

 

[carbonbased]

Gol darn it, every time I see the word shemgah I think it says smegma.

Which would be awkward.

 

[LoCal247]

Your post captured my attention when I saw the word Shemagh as I thought you were actually covering your objective with it and wondered how on earth that worked.

Couple questions for you, was the issue that the sight picture was ghosting on you (turning white) or was it the fact that the sun was literally being magnified and blinding your eyes? If it was the ghosting then I would say there are different scopes that handle flare/halation differently (some better than others); however, if it was the sun blinding you the only thing I know of to help is to reduce the aperture and it's possible to do this with a standard plastic cap, start by drilling a 1/16" hole in the center and look at the sun, does it reduce the brightness enough, if too much you can keep drilling larger and larger holes until you find the right aperture. March makes an aperture reduction ring for their scopes that reduces maybe 50% of the light (thereby increasing DOF) but that is not nearly enough for direct sunlight. An ARD (Anti Reflection Device) also reduces the amount of light, but the ARD was designed to reduced the reflection signature off the glass surface of the front objective (thus giving away your location to the enemy), I've never tried to use an ARD with direct sunlight to see how well it does but since I have one sitting here I'm going to go try - nope, still way too bright, I drilled an 1/8" hole in a spare cap and that was still pretty bright in direct sun so 1/16 probably the way to go. This latter method with the tiny hole in a cap does make eyebox a lot more finicky but serves its purpose in a pinch...

I came for the same reason haha