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Rifle Scopes Are the Marines dropping S&B
- Thread starter cro789
- Start date
That is an old story,
the S&B being used was a hybrid of Premier and S&B, when they divorced the USMC went to Premier. Since Premier really does not exist I am sure they need a new scope about now, especially with the changes in the industry.
The USMC has not bought new S&Bs for a while, which is why you see both S&B and Premier and recently I know they bought some NF scopes
But the stories are a mix of old and new. They didn't want to replay the contract process when the two divorced so they opted to just change it over to Premier, we all know there is no Premier now.
the S&B being used was a hybrid of Premier and S&B, when they divorced the USMC went to Premier. Since Premier really does not exist I am sure they need a new scope about now, especially with the changes in the industry.
The USMC has not bought new S&Bs for a while, which is why you see both S&B and Premier and recently I know they bought some NF scopes
But the stories are a mix of old and new. They didn't want to replay the contract process when the two divorced so they opted to just change it over to Premier, we all know there is no Premier now.
PS we donated SH Scope Tools to all the School Houses,
These are school House scopes
These are school House scopes
LowLight..... Question... when reading the story on the rifle Chris Kyle used when he was a sniper. He gave what he liked and so on. Is it up to each shooter to build their own rifle? or does the military provide it? He said he loved NightForce because of how durable they were. Just wanted your insight to this.
Thank you
No, you get what they give you, you don't build or bring your own
the Seals use rifles from Crane, Mk 11, Mk 12, Mk 13, Tac50s and the Tac338 at the time, they all use NF. The one Chris used was actually a shit scope for the job, but all he knew was what they gave him. The NF was the 8-32X at the time he spoke about it, not a great scope for this job, that was an F Class scope. Good for that not for the military.
NF Second Focal Plane scopes are very durable, SFP are more durable in fact than FFP ones, but everyone uses FFP now so it's a dead issue.
He had choices, but only what is in the system, could you imagine a guy "Building a Rifle" and it failing the blowback would be huge.
the Seals use rifles from Crane, Mk 11, Mk 12, Mk 13, Tac50s and the Tac338 at the time, they all use NF. The one Chris used was actually a shit scope for the job, but all he knew was what they gave him. The NF was the 8-32X at the time he spoke about it, not a great scope for this job, that was an F Class scope. Good for that not for the military.
NF Second Focal Plane scopes are very durable, SFP are more durable in fact than FFP ones, but everyone uses FFP now so it's a dead issue.
He had choices, but only what is in the system, could you imagine a guy "Building a Rifle" and it failing the blowback would be huge.
Choices in scopes require a process,
that takes a long time, they have to solicit requests, test and evaluate, it's not as easy as saying,
We want X Scope....
That only happens on small scales, drastic changes or large Marine Corps wide changes have to go through contracting. Now they can write the solicitation so it favors a specific scope, but they still have to accept competing offers from other brands. They cannot say, We want Nightforce, they have to say, We want a 7-35x scope that includes the following specs
that takes a long time, they have to solicit requests, test and evaluate, it's not as easy as saying,
We want X Scope....
That only happens on small scales, drastic changes or large Marine Corps wide changes have to go through contracting. Now they can write the solicitation so it favors a specific scope, but they still have to accept competing offers from other brands. They cannot say, We want Nightforce, they have to say, We want a 7-35x scope that includes the following specs
| 7-35x | |
| Objective lens diameter | 56mm |
| Tube diameter | 34mm/1.34 in |
| Internal adjustment range (MOA/Mil) | e: 100 MOA w: 60 MOA e: 29 Mil w: 18 Mil |
| Click value | .250 MOA .1 Mil-rad |
| Calibrated Ranging Power | N/A |
| Parallax adjustment | 10 m–∞ |
| Exit pupil diameter | 7x:6.0mm 35x: 1.6mm |
| Eye relief | 83-91mm/3.26-3.58 in |
| Field of view @100 yards/100 meters | 7x: 14.97ft 35x: 3.44ft 7x: 4.6m 35x: 1.05 m |
| Objective outer diameter | 65 mm |
| Eyepiece outer diameter | 44 mm |
| Overall length (inches/mm) | 16.0 in/406 mm |
| Weight (ounces/grams) | 39.3 oz/1113g |
| Mounting length (inches/mm) | 6.5 in/165 mm |
| Front/Rear Mounting Length | 2.3 in/2.4 in |
Yep, the joys of writing a contract to be narrow enough to only allow one winner.
Often times preference is given to a US manufacturer as well as part of the selection process as it stimulates the US economy. I used to work for a company that bid for military contracts and this was pretty evident.
Totally more durable,
It's in the design, but We may be better served if I get a scope guy to tell you, let me reach out a second
It's in the design, but We may be better served if I get a scope guy to tell you, let me reach out a second
Jesus, that's scary.
You have well earned the "giver of bad advice" moniker.
They recently adopted the M18 though, so it's about time they made a monumentally bad decision, at least if history is any indication.
Probably not Sig, but please God, not a Leupold!
You have well earned the "giver of bad advice" moniker.
They recently adopted the M18 though, so it's about time they made a monumentally bad decision, at least if history is any indication.
Probably not Sig, but please God, not a Leupold!
I'm sure Ilya (@koshkin ) can explain it in better detail, but as I understand it, the SFP have fewer parts and lenses, and fewer parts in the same real estate means those parts are more easily built/designed to be more robust/durable. I think Ilya did a video a few years ago on FFP scopes and how they work. Within that video he mentioned something like a minimum of 11 lenses in a FFP scope, vice something like 7 in a SFP scope. Also, he mentioned (IIRC) some FFP scopes have up to 19 lenses. That's a lot more different things than can be bumped, busted or bent. Again, with all those parts crammed into a 34mm'ish tube, it really limits how thick and robust some of those parts can be (and still fit inside the tube).
I'm hoping ILya can pipe in and clarify, as my memory ain't what it used to be, and it's been awhile since I watched that video...
I'm hoping ILya can pipe in and clarify, as my memory ain't what it used to be, and it's been awhile since I watched that video...
Damn, it has been awhile since anything made me feel as old as finding out USMC8541s are fielding M40A7s. Really? 7?
Shit.
I'm old.
I still remember thinking how awesome the Unertls were.
Shit.
I'm old.
I still remember thinking how awesome the Unertls were.
PS we donated SH Scope Tools to all the School Houses,
View attachment 7108946
These are school House scopes
Frank,
Thank you for what you have done and given to all of us here and to the folks in the service. I am proud to be with a group that helps each other and stand tall for what we believe in. For the ones standing the wall Thank You for those that stood the wall you Thank you.
View attachment 7108946
These are school House scopes
Frank,
Thank you for what you have done and given to all of us here and to the folks in the service. I am proud to be with a group that helps each other and stand tall for what we believe in. For the ones standing the wall Thank You for those that stood the wall you Thank you.
That was one specific scope and it was fairly complicated because it was a fancy scope with fairly short overall length and large objective (Hensoldt 4-16x56). There is not prescirption for a minimum or maximum number of lenses.
With FFP scopes, sometimes the objective lens gets a little more complicated because a lot of stuff has to be corrected before you get to the first focal plane.
The reticle cell itself is a lot smaller and some alignment tolerances are tighter. Given modern manufacturing methods there should not be much difference between FFP and SFP scopes durability-wise, but FFP designs will generally be more expensive all else being equal due to tighter tolerances required.
ILya
I heard from a guy that knows a guy say that those real special type of jarheads that close their eyes and yank on the trigger hopping to hit things far away always learned towards the NF scopes they had over S&B's and Leupolds that sat on the shelf. I don't remember them being S&B/Premier collaborations, but that was a while ago. Seems about right though.
I was pretty pissed they went A6 vs A7, should have stuck to odd numbers
About time they learn NF is the most durable most precise scope available .
Yea the MK13 isn’t an M40A7. Didn’t know if there was a new perk SSPs unlocked called “a budget for a new rifle so close to the release of the A6 and by close I mean within a generation” lol.
I am correcting my self there is not a M40A7 it is referred to as a MK13MOD7
www.marinecorpstimes.com
The Corps has already started fielding the new Mk13 sniper rifle
Marines with 1 MEF are the first to get their hands on the new deadly sniper rifle that has been employed with Marine Raiders.
www.marinecorpstimes.com
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