|
| ||
|
|
|
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Area 419 Recoil Suppression System
- Thread starter Precisiondada
- Start date
1) I wonder if there will be any infringement issue with SiCo's Omega with anchor brake
2) Since brakes work off the gasses and the suppressor traps gasses I wonder how much it actually reduced recoil vs a non braked suppressor. (this goes for both SiCo and 419)
2) Since brakes work off the gasses and the suppressor traps gasses I wonder how much it actually reduced recoil vs a non braked suppressor. (this goes for both SiCo and 419)
basically the recoil is the same as the sidewinder. but the 'push' is slightly prolonged, but not as long of a push as an ultra 7. and the noise is closer to a can with minimal concussion
I need to watch the videos, but how is this different then the Silencerco suppressors with the brake at the end? Seems like the same concept.
And those ribs are horrendous looking.
And those ribs are horrendous looking.
Shipping 1-1-20
Nfa wait 10.5 months currently
So I'll get to see these at a match in 2021......
I love area 419 but that is a huge window of launch to actual end users getting to use them in a match. Going to be a uphill sell for the first year till we start hearing real world pros and cons
Nfa wait 10.5 months currently
So I'll get to see these at a match in 2021......
I love area 419 but that is a huge window of launch to actual end users getting to use them in a match. Going to be a uphill sell for the first year till we start hearing real world pros and cons
watch the video. understand SOTs. def not gonna take that long
i think its different than silencerco in that its less can and more brake. and not an afterthought
Yes I realize they can play with stuff faster than other, kinda implying about the 99% of the rest of us joes
right. but a lot of people who shoot are in the industry. they'll be at matches and soon
Maybe that will be part of the marketing strategy? "Honey, I bought us something we can both enjoy..."
There's several at the finale this weekend, but I'm pretty sure it's all 419 employees and sponsored shooters.
The video does a great job of answering the common questions on this thing. I'm probably going to be ordering one when they become available, as I have been looking for another 30 can, and this addresses a lot of my complaints with a suppressor.
i wouldnt lump then into the precision category but eh to each their ownYeah I know no precision rifle/gun related company that would do that haha...
That's a fair comment, probably not the best terminology on my end
Hey fellas - here's a copy and paste that I put in the other Maverick thread on here last night, with slight relevance updates:
----
*dusts off Hide account*
What's up guys - Craig from Area 419.
Reading through the thread, I want to address a few points.
To begin, this is not, nor was it ever going to be, a Thunder Beast. The guys at TBAC have a terrific product line. If I want my rifle to be quiet, gimme that 338 BA. The Ultra 7 has also set the standard for mid-size suppressors. We have a great deal of respect for their work, and in all testing have used their stuff as the gold standard for suppression.
On to the Maverick - this was built with a match shooter in mind. If you're a guy that likes to bang some steel here and there with some buddies, and spends most of your time prone or on a bench, this may not appeal to you. That's ok, we aren't trying to please everyone.
Like many of our products, we started with a personal difficulty. I shoot a fairly large number of matches. This means a lot of rounds fired. As a competitive guy, I have nearly always shot these matches with a brake, wanting the greatest possible performance from my muzzle device. Downside here - brakes (wether ours or any other you'll see around) - create concussive pressure waves that effect the shooter not only at the time of the shot but over the course of a day/weekend/year/lifetime. The Maverick, in the competition setup with the brake attached, is built to retain that brake-like performance and eliminate the shock/fatigue of a brake. It does that, and if you're a match shooter you'll understand the importance.
The Maverick in the traditional suppressor configuration is also a very serviceable sound suppressor. Production models will be 8" long, and give you sound performance in line with the industry standard 7" cans. We knew we would lose some performance setting up the core unit to maximize the control from the brake, and this length/suppression ratio is the penalty.
We also understood that a lot of guys would want to train/hunt with the full suppressor configuration, and then shoot the braked setup in a match - so we made both ends weigh the same (they're so far all within about .5 gram), allowing a guy to go back and forth without a POI shift. Again, if you're a match shooter, this is sweet.
There's an above complaint about the aesthetic. While I typically (all the time) run a can with a cover, I wanted to explain the ribbing. It serves a few purposes. It provides band strength to the tube in certain places that are important to the construction of the can. The baffles are all pushing into one another and against the tube. This creates a great deal of concentricity, and keeps the baffle stack sealed so that long-term service can be performed in our shop. This construction also allows us to build in detail to the baffle skirts to use air as an insulator and hold in heat a little longer. Nothing worse than a 14-15 round stage that ends with mirage coming from your can and blurring a target. The ribs also allow us to use a larger diameter tube for the ends of the tubes, allowing for more solid caps and threads. Having a serviceable can was important, this is part of that process. We also like the ability of the ribs to retain a cover. NOTE: Production model cans will have a marginally less pronounced rib as we will be using custom-size titanium bar stock as opposed to common small-run sizes.
Worth noting - my opinion is biased, so I'll copy/paste some Hide/FB comments from a couple guys that shot them this weekend. The consensus from the guys (me included) that shot the unit in the finale this weekend - it's comfortable, controllable, and you'll spot trace like you never have. Here are some others:
Nathan Livingston: Ran one all weekend at the finale, very impressed. Didn't feel beat up after 250 rounds like I do when I shoot a brake at a match, and I was seeing impacts/misses/trace all weekend without issue. Positional shooting feels extremely similar to a brake. I wish it wasnt the end of the season because I'd like to run this at a couple more matches now. Very excited overall.
Brandon Ruggles: (After running one all weekend at the Finale)
-Recoil Mitigation is phenomenal. I would estimate it to be roughly 90% as effective as a brake.
-It’s certainly not hearing safe in the can+brake configuration, which is how I ran it. But in a match, you have ear pro on regardless since so many other shooters run brakes.
-Fit and finish is what you would expect from Area419, perfect.
-Didn’t notice any mirage. I was running a Cole-Tac cover they made specifically for the Maverick.
-After 3 days and 275 rounds I had no fatigue. A lot of matches I’ll finish with a decent headache.
The most interesting thing to me was how much trace I saw. It was more than when I shoot a full can, OR a full brake. My assumption on this is because obviously a can flips, but I also believe when running a brake, the blast causes me to shut my eyes briefly. With the Maverick the brake is FAR less harsh and I felt able to track better. This certainly would be subjective based on the shooter, but I don’t think I’m the only one in this boat.
Ryan Hansen: "So I shot this on Craig’s 6xc today. This is a amazing item. It’s hard to describe how it shoots but the gun shot “soft” barely coming off the target not just in the prone but also off a Barricade, the impulse was very smooth and the sound reduction it’s just enough to take the snap out of it. Pretty impressive device."
Steve Eames: "Shot this today. absolutely amazing, only shot 8 rounds prone and positional but never came close to loosing a bullet down range. wish i could have screwed it on my heavier match rifle to get a real evaluation, maybe another day. thanks 419 for innovation, creativity and meeting shooters demands!!"
I'm getting long-winded, but hope to be complete in addressing questions. We will be doing a FB Live on Wednesday night, so watch our Facebook page for that. We will also be pushing out more and more videos from both our range and from the finale. This system is the real deal, and we are very excited about getting them into more and more hands.
----
*dusts off Hide account*
What's up guys - Craig from Area 419.
Reading through the thread, I want to address a few points.
To begin, this is not, nor was it ever going to be, a Thunder Beast. The guys at TBAC have a terrific product line. If I want my rifle to be quiet, gimme that 338 BA. The Ultra 7 has also set the standard for mid-size suppressors. We have a great deal of respect for their work, and in all testing have used their stuff as the gold standard for suppression.
On to the Maverick - this was built with a match shooter in mind. If you're a guy that likes to bang some steel here and there with some buddies, and spends most of your time prone or on a bench, this may not appeal to you. That's ok, we aren't trying to please everyone.
Like many of our products, we started with a personal difficulty. I shoot a fairly large number of matches. This means a lot of rounds fired. As a competitive guy, I have nearly always shot these matches with a brake, wanting the greatest possible performance from my muzzle device. Downside here - brakes (wether ours or any other you'll see around) - create concussive pressure waves that effect the shooter not only at the time of the shot but over the course of a day/weekend/year/lifetime. The Maverick, in the competition setup with the brake attached, is built to retain that brake-like performance and eliminate the shock/fatigue of a brake. It does that, and if you're a match shooter you'll understand the importance.
The Maverick in the traditional suppressor configuration is also a very serviceable sound suppressor. Production models will be 8" long, and give you sound performance in line with the industry standard 7" cans. We knew we would lose some performance setting up the core unit to maximize the control from the brake, and this length/suppression ratio is the penalty.
We also understood that a lot of guys would want to train/hunt with the full suppressor configuration, and then shoot the braked setup in a match - so we made both ends weigh the same (they're so far all within about .5 gram), allowing a guy to go back and forth without a POI shift. Again, if you're a match shooter, this is sweet.
There's an above complaint about the aesthetic. While I typically (all the time) run a can with a cover, I wanted to explain the ribbing. It serves a few purposes. It provides band strength to the tube in certain places that are important to the construction of the can. The baffles are all pushing into one another and against the tube. This creates a great deal of concentricity, and keeps the baffle stack sealed so that long-term service can be performed in our shop. This construction also allows us to build in detail to the baffle skirts to use air as an insulator and hold in heat a little longer. Nothing worse than a 14-15 round stage that ends with mirage coming from your can and blurring a target. The ribs also allow us to use a larger diameter tube for the ends of the tubes, allowing for more solid caps and threads. Having a serviceable can was important, this is part of that process. We also like the ability of the ribs to retain a cover. NOTE: Production model cans will have a marginally less pronounced rib as we will be using custom-size titanium bar stock as opposed to common small-run sizes.
Worth noting - my opinion is biased, so I'll copy/paste some Hide/FB comments from a couple guys that shot them this weekend. The consensus from the guys (me included) that shot the unit in the finale this weekend - it's comfortable, controllable, and you'll spot trace like you never have. Here are some others:
Nathan Livingston: Ran one all weekend at the finale, very impressed. Didn't feel beat up after 250 rounds like I do when I shoot a brake at a match, and I was seeing impacts/misses/trace all weekend without issue. Positional shooting feels extremely similar to a brake. I wish it wasnt the end of the season because I'd like to run this at a couple more matches now. Very excited overall.
Brandon Ruggles: (After running one all weekend at the Finale)
-Recoil Mitigation is phenomenal. I would estimate it to be roughly 90% as effective as a brake.
-It’s certainly not hearing safe in the can+brake configuration, which is how I ran it. But in a match, you have ear pro on regardless since so many other shooters run brakes.
-Fit and finish is what you would expect from Area419, perfect.
-Didn’t notice any mirage. I was running a Cole-Tac cover they made specifically for the Maverick.
-After 3 days and 275 rounds I had no fatigue. A lot of matches I’ll finish with a decent headache.
The most interesting thing to me was how much trace I saw. It was more than when I shoot a full can, OR a full brake. My assumption on this is because obviously a can flips, but I also believe when running a brake, the blast causes me to shut my eyes briefly. With the Maverick the brake is FAR less harsh and I felt able to track better. This certainly would be subjective based on the shooter, but I don’t think I’m the only one in this boat.
Ryan Hansen: "So I shot this on Craig’s 6xc today. This is a amazing item. It’s hard to describe how it shoots but the gun shot “soft” barely coming off the target not just in the prone but also off a Barricade, the impulse was very smooth and the sound reduction it’s just enough to take the snap out of it. Pretty impressive device."
Steve Eames: "Shot this today. absolutely amazing, only shot 8 rounds prone and positional but never came close to loosing a bullet down range. wish i could have screwed it on my heavier match rifle to get a real evaluation, maybe another day. thanks 419 for innovation, creativity and meeting shooters demands!!"
I'm getting long-winded, but hope to be complete in addressing questions. We will be doing a FB Live on Wednesday night, so watch our Facebook page for that. We will also be pushing out more and more videos from both our range and from the finale. This system is the real deal, and we are very excited about getting them into more and more hands.
So its not great for sound suppression when compared to other suppressors and its not going to reduce the recoil as much compared to a normal brake. Got it. Strong pass on this product from me.
I was hoping the video would impress me but it actually made me say hard pass. What you said is spot on. All of that AND it’s an NFA item ?
either you two are trolling or you literally read NOTHING in this thread or any of the info on the Maverick
I watched the video on their website... they basically say it’s not great for sound suppression as it uses the brake. And they also say it’s not the equivalent to the recoil reduction a brake provides.
So no I’m not trolling. Go watch the videos man.
It's not something I personally would buy but I love the fact that Area 419 is advancing the conversation and being innovative and creating something truly unique. While it may sound a little lame I value that because it's in such short supply these days. They're good people and I will support them in the future for sure.
lol look at post #8 (from the video even) comparing recoil to the sidewinder and other cans. sidewinder > hellfire which is what 'most' people use
sound number isnt the only thing that matters here which you would understand if you watched or read anything. it's shape vector concussion etc that matters just as much to the shooter. which numerous non A419 people noted during their time using it whether brief or for the full match
you're literally JUST getting into this sport and admit yourself you dont know what you're doing. might wanna sit back and read/listen/learn before you spout off about things you dont have any experience with
I watched the video a few times - there's some nuance that will become more clear when we release dB reduction numbers tonight in our live stream, and when you spend some time shooting matches.
The Maverick has two configurations.
Competition: Uses the brake. Isn't quiet, but it's comfortable from the shooter perspective wearing ear pro, which is what people do at a match. It's also as easy to drive and control as a brake. Everyone who has shot it for more than about 10 rounds will tell you they have spotted more trace than they ever have - and these are real, experienced, talented shooters. While this setup won't reduce the pure recoil of our Sidewinder, pure recoil isn't the only component of muzzle control. Rise/pulse are very important factors as well. Watch the posts I've dropped in the last couple days on our Facebook page of stages shot in the finale, you'll see what I'm talking about.
Training/Hunting: This is configured as an 8" suppressor that sounds great. Again, dB numbers come out tonight. They're solid. The can is also made in a way that is unsurpassed when measuring consistency of construction and runout.
You can also swap back and forth from configuration to configuration and not have a POI shift, which is a huge bonus.
I said it above, this isn't for everyone, but for the people we designed it for, there isn't going to be anything even close.
I see. Well I guess if the dB rating is better than most cans in its full format and POI change is competitive enough to the cans I own I might consider it. Probably will wait a year or so after it’s release if it turns out to be the holy grail of suppressors
@flyer1a is there a measurable way to compare concussion of bare vs brake vs Maverick? Since the dB numbers won't tell the whole story, I'm wondering how to quantify the amount of concussion reduction compared to a traditional brake.
That's the biggest thing for me, since we obviously all need ear pro on at a match, but laying next to a Hellfire or Lil Bastard is a painful experience due to the rear-angled blast.
Are the people saying they're seeing trace "better than ever", is it because they normally flinch during braked recoil? Or is the Maverick brake designed that differently that the muzzle doesn't flip at all? If the Maverick doesn't reduce recoil as effectively as a brake, I'm curious as to how it would be better at seeing your own trace.
That's the biggest thing for me, since we obviously all need ear pro on at a match, but laying next to a Hellfire or Lil Bastard is a painful experience due to the rear-angled blast.
Are the people saying they're seeing trace "better than ever", is it because they normally flinch during braked recoil? Or is the Maverick brake designed that differently that the muzzle doesn't flip at all? If the Maverick doesn't reduce recoil as effectively as a brake, I'm curious as to how it would be better at seeing your own trace.
If you figure out a non-subjective way to test that, and it isn't cost prohibitive, let me know. I want to do it, as it'll be an obvious positive point for the system. I had one RO this weekend that's a shooter ask to put a couple rounds through the rifle off a barricade after I ran his stage. He shot 2 rounds. dug it, but then I had him stand next to the muzzle as I shot one more time. Difference was obvious. I've also taken some videos from a tripod-mounted phone and you can see the video shake with a Sidewinder vs a Maverick, but that's far from quantified evidence.
I think the trace deal is both sides. The lack of concussion is real, and it's why some guys see trace better with a normal suppressor than with a brake, especially prone. We flinch/blink/twitch unconsciously when we are hit. Just part of life. Reducing that impact reduces flinch and allows you to stay focused. The recoil impulse is also very flat, which is helping.
This is the part of the conversation that gets wonky as there's a lot of subjective voodoo. I don't like digging into it too hard as there's not a lot of good way to test objectively. It's a matter of getting them on guys guns and letting them see/feel for themselves.
I have a fair amount of rounds on and around the Maverick and the one thing that here is no question about is concussion reduction in the brake mode, in comparison to a standard brake. It really is night and day from a concussion and blast standpoint. Fellow shooters at the finale were asked to stand next the rifle while it was fired duplicating being the next guy on the firing line, and they all agreed to that as well. Its not very scientific but none the less is distinguishable...
Holy crap cant believe my saved login info still worked!! lol
The other thing to keep in mind when we discuss recoil is that is only part of the story when it comes to staying on target, and honestly probably not as important. Muzzle control is what we are seeing here. While the rifle may push BACK into your shoulder more than a brake, the muzzle does not flip as much because we are focusing on keeping it down with the Maverick brake. If the bore of the barrel was centered on your shoulder, you could run a bare muzzle and stay on target, but this is not the case and likely will never be the case for various reasons (one being it would be one ugly chassis).
Its a little more difficult to do this with a normal brake because we are constrained by the diameter of the brake which limits usable real estate for this geometry. This very well could lead to new geometry on our brakes eventually after what we have learned here, not really sure if the same will be possible.
I’m not sure if there’s an easy/cheap scientific way to measure the concussion, that’s why I asked you haha.
Some thoughts are:
- Wind meter? Not sure if any are sensitive enough or respond (spool up) quick enough to give a valid mph reading.
- Pitot tube? Same with the wind meter, the location and distance would be critical, as well as the response rate.
- A ghetto test idea would be something like a stand that holds a sheet of tissue paper. Move the location/angle/distance of the sheet of tissue paper from the brake until a fired shot doesn’t rip the sheet. Then compare that distance between muzzle devices. The thought would be the Maverick ends up X feet further away than the Hellfire.
Area 419: We've created a new type of fork for people who eat steak. It is not intended to be used to eat soup with.
The Internet: This thing isn't any better at eating soup than my trusty spoon! What a piece of shit.
The Internet: This thing isn't any better at eating soup than my trusty spoon! What a piece of shit.
I'd think a barometer, set and a defined distance and angle from the muzzle would suffice for a test standard. the concussion would change the pressure, even though momentary. Think of a trigger gauge; same concept. Only instead of measuring highest weight, this would measure highest barometric pressure detected.
Similar threads
