Looks like all of those 4473s that dealers have to turn in prior to closing shop were put into a massive database. 850 million of the records have been digitized. ATF says they use the database to "help" law enforcement, but then go on to say they have no idea how useful the information they provide is. I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.
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ATF admits to having firearm registration DB with over 920 million records
- Thread starter PolarisBreach
- Start date
I lol when people say there is 300m guns in this country. I always thought it was closer to double that
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LOL. No shit. How did anyone think a firearm "trace" is completed after a firearm is used in a crime with no suspect in custody?
We've had a de facto registry ever since the first time a DROS was done and the disposition went back to the ATF for "archiving". If this surprises anyone, I have ocean-front property in Arizona to sell them.
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I guess I’m more shocked that people didn’t think this was being kept/tracked.
I remember the arguments, even just a few years ago on pro-gun websites where many guys said there was no way that the feds tracked all the firearm purchases. There was not enough manpower, everything is just stored paper copies and nobody will go through it etc...
If only we could make everyone stop buying from an FFL...what would happen??
Who cares, and why would anybody be surprised?
.gov got lots of “lists”….hell every member of this website is probably on a “list”. Or seven.
This ain’t Red Dawn, a 4473 only says you purchased something - doesn’t mean you still own it and definitely doesn’t mean somebody’s gonna be knocking your door in to take your shit.
.gov got lots of “lists”….hell every member of this website is probably on a “list”. Or seven.
This ain’t Red Dawn, a 4473 only says you purchased something - doesn’t mean you still own it and definitely doesn’t mean somebody’s gonna be knocking your door in to take your shit.
I’ve known this for over 10 years now, a couple of agents knocked on my door once asking about a couple guns I had sold and it was pretty easy to put it together that they hadn’t went down the line from manufacturer to dealer to dealer and shit to trace where it went.
Exactly! What’s a couple thousand agents going to do 120 million people owning 4-800 million guns?
Look at what facebook does with meta data. Look at the ads on your phone three minutes after a product comes up in conversation. The government is probably tracking everything. They know everywhere you've been, the products you buy, every website you've ever visited. Nobody looks at it until they need to.
When they're ready to confiscate your firearms, they won't come in with a swat team. They'll come with two little weasel ATF agents that play you recordings of incriminating conversations you had years ago. Everyone has secrets they don't want aired out.
"Mr. Delpino, I've been made aware that you received a handjob from Becky at your company's 2006 Christmas party. Does Mrs. Delpino know? Does she know about the hookers in Bayamon? No? We're going to need your guns now....."
I'm fucked.
When they're ready to confiscate your firearms, they won't come in with a swat team. They'll come with two little weasel ATF agents that play you recordings of incriminating conversations you had years ago. Everyone has secrets they don't want aired out.
"Mr. Delpino, I've been made aware that you received a handjob from Becky at your company's 2006 Christmas party. Does Mrs. Delpino know? Does she know about the hookers in Bayamon? No? We're going to need your guns now....."
I'm fucked.
Becky is certainly our downfall. Can’t say enough bad things about her.
Only 7 lists? I’ve got some work to do.
I wouldn't even put it past the government to have Becky on payroll... specifically for this reason.
It is really a good thing that I do not know any Becky's...... Looks like I am safe.
Everyone has something, Doc.It is really a good thing that I do not know any Becky's...... Looks like I am safe.
Maybe it was that time you wrote off a boat as a business asset, or the time you went midget bowling at your cousins bachelor party. Your pornhub history? They have that too.
No one is safe.
I think it was back in the 90s everyone was talking about the scanners the ATF where using to scan all the 4473s.
920 million records and they know that plenty of firearms have traded owners between then.
There are probably a legitimate 100 million firearms owners.
Most of them would be "opposed" to firearm confiscations, and would possibly demonstrate that opposition in a way that the ATF would not like.
The ATF has how many employees?
Maybe they should work at getting firearms out of the hands of prohibited possessors and leave the legal gun owners alone?
There are probably a legitimate 100 million firearms owners.
Most of them would be "opposed" to firearm confiscations, and would possibly demonstrate that opposition in a way that the ATF would not like.
The ATF has how many employees?
Maybe they should work at getting firearms out of the hands of prohibited possessors and leave the legal gun owners alone?
the govt is playing chess while the gunowners are playing go-fish
does anyone really think the govt didnt have every weapon attached to a name on a data base
why do you think the govt stopped trying to get rid of firearms in general and moved on to the loop hole of gun shows
once they stop firearms from changing hands without using a FFL, their registry is complete/accurate
and a registry that is 75% accurate is good enough for a warrant good or bad
does anyone really think the govt didnt have every weapon attached to a name on a data base
why do you think the govt stopped trying to get rid of firearms in general and moved on to the loop hole of gun shows
once they stop firearms from changing hands without using a FFL, their registry is complete/accurate
and a registry that is 75% accurate is good enough for a warrant good or bad
Well i KNOW they know what i got, i had to ask permission first!
First they came for your high capacity mags
Then they came for your bump stocks
Then they came for your bump triggers
Then they came for your solvent traps
Then they stole the election and laughed in your fucking face at all the evidence they ignored
Then, they are getting ready to come for the rest.
This is exactly why they are now going after 80% frames hard.
They damn sure aren't scared of the actual criminals, it's freedom loving law abiding citizens their afraid of.
If I were corrupt as they, I would be too.
For those saying not enough manpower to go door to door, the future is remote punishment. At the push of a button they will punish. There won't be a person standing in front of you the moment it happens. You will get a letter saying you must do X & Y because you are a gun owner on the list. If you don't comply all these things will be cut off with a button push:
- Electricity
- Gas
- Bank account
- Water
- Phone service
- Internet
- Drivers license
- Air travel
- Etc.
no need for all that "drama"
they turn off water etc and the middle of the road people will call foul
the easiest way is to stop you from getting a registration sticker for your car
thats why they red light cameras are on the car and they dont care about the driver...which is what really counts
dont pay the fine and you cant register your car...want to register..pay up
Why do you think they want "universal background checks?"
It is specifically so they can then charge you with a crime if you don't produce the gun on demand and claim you sold it or lost it or it was stolen.
It's why anybody with any brains knows you must fight that evil "universal background checks" thing tooth and nail & make sure free citizens can still sell/trade/give the tools of freedom to other free citizens.
There is another part of this that is not mentioned.
It's not just the "out of business" stuff they are getting.
There has long been folks saying with great certainty that all these "audits" the ATF is doing, were to a great extent about scanning and making copies of the documents so they could add them to the database.
I'm almost 100% sure that's why they changed the form so that all your information and then all the gun information are on the same side of the page, so a quick picture as they do their "audit" is all that is needed, not a front and back picture which takes longer.
Also much quicker to scan into the database as a single image.
It's not just the "out of business" stuff they are getting.
There has long been folks saying with great certainty that all these "audits" the ATF is doing, were to a great extent about scanning and making copies of the documents so they could add them to the database.
I'm almost 100% sure that's why they changed the form so that all your information and then all the gun information are on the same side of the page, so a quick picture as they do their "audit" is all that is needed, not a front and back picture which takes longer.
Also much quicker to scan into the database as a single image.
4473 has always been a registry, there is no other logical reason to keep those records after the background check is complete.
That said, funny how the government can laugh at and shit on the law with nothing happening, but if you or I even Facebook the wrong thing we can end up fired from our jobs and our kids in the poor house.
If the state didn’t have double standards, it wouldn’t have any standards at all
That said, funny how the government can laugh at and shit on the law with nothing happening, but if you or I even Facebook the wrong thing we can end up fired from our jobs and our kids in the poor house.
If the state didn’t have double standards, it wouldn’t have any standards at all
Funny, I haven’t even debated if the background check was illegal, I think the 4473 and entire ATF and NFA are illegal
Firearm traces are done based off the manufactured report, not some 4473 registry. I've taken part in traces by the atf, they literally start at the manufacturer, call them, ask what dealer purchased that firearm, then so on until the paper trail ends.
The atf changed the 4473 years ago with the firearm serial# on the front page, that was a red flag what was coming next. Government run servers are so archaic and poorly maintained, just look at nics, they can't keep that system running online for more than a week and seem to constantly intermix files. I'm sure not worried about them keeping an accurate firearm data base
Here is an interesting new thing that just happened at my local gun store:
For the first time, they typed in my carry licence into the state verification database and printed out the receipt to show it was valid and kept that with the paperwork.
It would be interesting to find out if the back end database keeps a report showing how many times a lookup was done on a specific license number and what dates and from what IP address each lookup was done...
For the first time, they typed in my carry licence into the state verification database and printed out the receipt to show it was valid and kept that with the paperwork.
It would be interesting to find out if the back end database keeps a report showing how many times a lookup was done on a specific license number and what dates and from what IP address each lookup was done...
I’ve even been telling people for decades!!!!
I’m on 13, then lost track....yes you are behind..
Unless you are driving a pretty old automobile, they can cut your car off, remotely.
Don't worry about getting gasoline.
They aren't coming to get your guns, until they've tightened everyone's belts considerably. Then, it'll be just like '34. Pretty hard to worry about your AR15, when your kids haven't eaten in a few days or week.
You'll hand them in....most of you will. If you don't, your neighbor will turn you in for a loaf of bread. Oh no, not that liberal neighbor, that neighbor that you've known all your life, good friends, yall used to hang out, drink beer and talk about guns....
Its not just coming...its almost here.
Juuuust a little while longer to prepare the way.
The store shelves are empty even now.
In 53 years, I've never seen an empty food store shelf in this country that I love. Its not our country anymore.
You'll own nothing, and you'll love it.....or they'll put you in a ditch.
That's not the point, also they are expressly forbidden by law to do this so I wonder when the lawsuits start
The 5th amendment is all but dead.
We are moving away from the gov having to prove our guilt, to us having to prove our innocence. But it’s all for “safety”
And remember the other posts about what’s happening to the kids, them being all but raised by the gov, who do you think ends up in that jury box after they hit 18yrs old? Who do you think they’ll side with?
Forgive the melodrama, but it reminds me of that line about people being so dependent and defensive of the system
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Whats a few more degrees of water temp in the boiling pot? Its apparent that most are totally fine and complacent with literally anything the Gov does as long as we can have our toys right now. Total complacency, screw our future generations.
Not being an ass. Just an observation.
Not being an ass. Just an observation.
It’s like cattle.
The couple cowboys would have their hands full stopping that one big bull, forget about the whole herd, but they make loud noises, slap a couple on the ass, and the massive heard will be driven off a ledge if they wanted.
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