Suppressors ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

sigyman

sigyman

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Feb 16, 2007
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MCKINNEY,TEXAS!!!!
#1
Guys here is some info from a buddy of mine that just got this news from YHM this morning

Emailed YHM about getting a new piston for my Cobra so I could put on my Sig and this is what I got back.



Sir,
Unfortunately I have bad news. We were finially notified by ATF Monday morning that we can no longer sell individual pistons, 3-lug adapters, fixed barrel adapters and most other componets seperately. We can sell a sound suppressor with one attaching device and that is it. We are not very happy to say the least. This is going to affect our business tremendousely. Apparently we were the first, and now ATF is going to go after all other sound suppressor manufacturers as well. We are going to fight this, and the owner of this company has already contacted some attorneys about taking legal action. As you saw we were forced to take all the products off our web page or face legal action by ATF. We are waiting to hear the final word on the QD mounts, and I am not expecting good news about them either. All I can tell you now is to be patient while we appeal ATF's ruling and hopefully get it overturned. Sorry for the inconvience, however our hands are tied at the moment, and no one is more upset than us over this matter.
 
#8
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

This is from YHM Cobra page. Looks to be true.


A mount must be purchased with the suppressor. Additional mounts cannot be purchased at this time.
 
#9
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

I am not that surprised.. a tighten here, tweak there.. reinterpret this a bit.. change that... take it away by making it more expensive and less available; next it will be a limit on total number of suppressors with any type of license or stamp... just my guess... and legislation by treaty and executive order until the constitution is a vague memory...
bastardos...
dk
 
#10
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

why not have someone machine a mount then ? a third party. seems like all it is a mount with some threads on it
wink.gif


I see a new market emerging
 
#11
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

People ask me at work when this B.S. will end... My answer... When you stand up and say enough!!!! Do not tread on me anymore.

People get the government they deserve. Football, Nascar, dancing with the star.......
 
#12
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

I found this out a couple weeks ago when I called to order extra mounts for a customer with one of their 30 cal cans. If you have an AAC can you better get extra mounts now. All those M4 1000/2000's and SPRs ect.

Chipping away
 
#14
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

Doubtless everyone will be notified to cease and desist. This falls under the definition of a suppressor.

"The term 'firearm silencer' or 'firearm muffler' means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication."

So, ATF is just enforcing the law as written. Just as with the rebuilding issue, this is nothing new, people just ignored it and ATF apparently did not pay any attention.

Since the adapter is "intended only" for the use with a suppressor, it's a suppressor in and of itself.

Now, the way you deal with this is to make the part usable for other things. Then you are following the law as written. Make dummy cans that use the same adapter. Make a flash hider that attached with the adapter, or some other gizmos that use the same part. Now it's not "only" for use with the suppressor, it just so happens it will work with one. Problem solved.
 
#15
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doubtless everyone will be notified to cease and desist. This falls under the definition of a suppressor.

"The term 'firearm silencer' or 'firearm muffler' means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication."

So, ATF is just enforcing the law as written. Just as with the rebuilding issue, this is nothing new, people just ignored it and ATF apparently did not pay any attention.

Since the adapter is "intended only" for the use with a suppressor, it's a suppressor in and of itself.

Now, the way you deal with this is to make the part usable for other things. Then you are following the law as written. Make dummy cans that use the same adapter. Make a flash hider that attached with the adapter, or some other gizmos that use the same part. Now it's not "only" for use with the suppressor, it just so happens it will work with one. Problem solved. </div></div>

BINGO, thats why the AAC mounts are availabkle. They are flash suppressors also, that just happen to work as a can mount.
 
#18
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

Guys,

Read what Cory typed.

Flash Hider is not enough stand alone to let them sale it as is.

You need something "else" to go with it as a dual use piece of kit.

John
 
#21
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

Pulled from another site:


<span style="font-style: italic">Sir,
Thank you for your interest in our products. Yes, I can confirm that ATF has made us suspend sales of all individual threaded pistons, fixed barrel adapters, 3 lug mounts, and thread adapters. We are awaiting their ruling on QD mounts right now, but were ordered to halt all sales of them till they make a determination. They say that they are a component of a suppressor and therefore can only be sold with a complete suppressor as part of the suppressor. We are not happy about this to say the least and are in the process of appealing their recent decision. They are supposedly going to be looking at all sound suppressor manufacturers in the very near future. We just happened to be the first. This is all the information I have, and I have no idea how long it is going to take for the appeal process.

Thanks,
Tom Camilleri
Sales-Tech
YHM</span>


Defacto means of tying the suppressor to one platform - potentially worse - one part with a limited life span.



Good luck
 
#24
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

The flash hider mount is not a problem, you can have all of those you like. The problem is mostly pistol type cans that use a Nielsen device where the threaded piston can be interchanged to get another thread pattern. For example, I have several Gemtech Tundra's around the ranch. You can get them in 1/2x28 or 13.5x1 LH metric. The piston can be swapped to put in on different guns. My Browning HP is 1/2 x 28, a S&W M&P has a 13.5x1 LH metric thread, so I have both pistons. Others, like Costal, can swap to most thread's and even an HK 3-Lug type mount.

I did kind of wonder how they managed to get ATF to approve that, (I'm an 07/SOT myself), but I just assumed that they did.

In short, the QD type mounts that are a muzzle break or flash hider are just fine. It's parts that go into the can itself to make the mounting system change that are a no-no.
 
#25
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

Well, the gun part of the mounts SHOULD be fine, though ATF may have to have some laywer bashing it for a bit to resolve that. After all, the definition does say, "intended <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">only</span></span>".

The "combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler" clause is a bit of a stretch, since the mount is quite arguably NOT used to "assemble or fabricate", nor is it a part of the device itself.
 
#31
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If this comes to pass, threaded barrels are next....
</div></div>

ya, if this comes to pass threaded barrels, hi caps, flash suppressors, etc... gonna be worse than another slick billy ban.
 
#32
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

I am not holding my breath.

We all know how this works. A law enforcement body comes up with a new interpretation of a standing statute. They attempt to enforce that interpretation. A private entity must be damaged by that enforcement. They can then see relief in a court of law. We then gain case law to nullify, confirm or clarify the "interpretation".

I won't give BATFE "interpretations" any credit until it passes judicial scrutiny.

Why do "threaded barrels" have nothing to do with silencer laws? Because a barrel can be threaded to accept a number of unrestricted accessories. Banning threaded barrels because a silencer "could" be attached when the owner has no such devices is such a reaching interpretation as to come nowhere near the "reasonableness" test. Now if I own a legally registered silencer how could the BATFE prevent me from threading a barrel to attach that device without congress or my state passing new legislation? They can't. Plain and simple.

My guess is that this will be an attempt to make more money on registration tax. They will attempt to require manufacturers to serialize and register each QD device as a "silencer" in itself. Much like their decision that a single baffle constitutes a silencer even though a single baffle outside of a tube has no means to quite the report of a weapon.

Just my $.02 and should in no way be construed as legal advice.
 
#33
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

I am thinking that if the definition is stretched to try to include quick disconnect parts; the way around it is the universal quick disconnect/connector that allows a muzzle break, flash suppressor, baynonet ?, that way it is not intended nor used for only a can... I hope that does not become necessary, but if their interepretation is too road it becomes less likely to be upheld on challenge..
just a thought.
my real concern would be : making the can only attachable to one weapon.. to make it more unaccessable due to cost.. I am not concerned with giving them ideas they have not had before.. that would be hard to do obviously... it is having the go-ahead and support for the reinterpretation that is lacking, not the ideas on how to expand and how to choke off american rights...
unfortunate but true.
dk
 
#35
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My "adapters" are also muzzle brakes / flash hiders... How is that solely a "part of a suppressor"? </div></div>
the adapters also work as muzzle brakes/ flash hiders, but... you cannot use the specified suppressor without the specified adapter, in a way making it solely a part of the can. Just another way to <span style="font-style: italic">TRY</span> and make it harder to get a suppressor, i hope everyone see's the big picture here!
 
#36
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

I have a friend in the DFW area that is in ATF and he indicates that this event must be the result of some local views. He is not aware of any new push or directives that have mandated a different view of existing laws. And no new legislation has been passed to his knowledge that expands any current law.

It would be interesting to see if any other suppressor companies have been advised of any changes.
 
#37
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

Remember the brass at the BATFE can issue "opinions" on whatever they like. "Opinions" are not law, but some smaller companies may choose to follow them rather than pay the legal fees that may result from an attempt at prosecution.

Paying lawyers to fight your case in Federal Court as well as the income loss from your business being shut down and product seized for the years that it can take is more than many businesses are willing to risk.
 
#44
Re: ATF Suppressor BS!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm buying a CNC... Fuck this shit. </div></div>


SWEET I AM IN TOO!!
 
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