I'm still using my V1 AutoTrickler and while it's decent, I've been using it since it was released and haven't kept up on the latest and greatest. Has anyone used both and would like to offer a recommendation? I like that the V4 AutoTrickler is a self-contained unit now with no external trickler. In the past, I've had to clean and lube the trickler or else it would toss powder all over the platen. I also like that the Supertrickler will have additional add-on equipment that will make reloading even easier, but I guess those will be down the road some time.
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AutoTrickler V4 or SuperTrickler?
- Thread starter canezach
- Start date
i have both, the supertrickler showed up last week and i will never touch the autotrickler again!
the supertrickler is much faster and has less over throws. to be honest its not even a fair comparison.
Between the two, super trickler. If you can source a V3, then I'd go V3 + IP.
When you see some of the new functionality of the 3.0 update you will change your mind, I wager
My brother has a V4, I just got a supertrickler. He wishes he had the supertrickler. I couldn't be happier
I sold my V3 + IP to fund 2 supertricklers because I found it to be a pain to source another V3+IP. So far, I wish I would have kept searching for another V3. The SuperTrickler is the smartest dispenser on the market by far, but I only drop varget for 2 calibers and don't really waver from that so most of that functionality is lost on me. It's also still a vibratory trickler so clumps still happen. The IP is a dropper not necessarily a trickler so it doesn't have clumping issues. I've found it to be significantly more reliable and faster considering overthrows than the ST. From everything I've read and experienced, my hierarchy goes something like the following (subject to change with significant firmware updates for ST):
1. V3 + IP
2. SuperTrickler
3. V3 stock
4. V4 stock
1. V3 + IP
2. SuperTrickler
3. V3 stock
4. V4 stock
I have heard loading for more and various calibers/powders are better with the ST and loading for fewer are better with V4. The thing that gives me pause on the V3+IP option is if your V3 goes down with a critical part your screwed since the critical V3 replacement parts are no longer in production and your stuck with a broken V3. Maybe the likelyhood is low and realistically a non-issue. I am excited to see what the ST 3.0 update will do, but the V3+IP is a compelling option in any scenario I think, as long as you could source one. The genius of the ST is versatility of swapping powders at your whim and pleasure and having it run fast, along with all the cool technology doodads the ST offers in the whole package...My limited observations anyways.
Thanks, guys! I load for about a dozen different calibers, so the ST's ability to just change powders, enter the new charge weight, and go makes it interesting to me, but isn't that basically the same thing the V4 is capable of? I admit, I was leaning towards the ST to begin with because of the potential future additions, but @DairyDictator what makes the V4 rank so low on your list? Also, how hard is it to clean out clumps? As easy as pushing a thin wooden dowel through the pipe to break up the clump or is it something that's more involved that will have the system down for a few minutes?
@secondofangle2 are you talking about the 3.0 update for the ST? What's coming that makes it so appealing?
@secondofangle2 are you talking about the 3.0 update for the ST? What's coming that makes it so appealing?
I have no experience with the SuperTrickler but I do have a new V4 that I've been using for a couple months and about 700 rounds so far. I just don't get the complaints about speed and overthrows. Granted, not all that long in use and not all that many loaded rounds, but, per 100 rounds loaded I have had no more than about 5 overthrows, (charges thrown back to re-do), and the V4 is faster than I can dump the charge into the case and seat a bullet. The V4 is worlds better than the Chargemaster I have been using. I am more than happy with the accuracy and speed.
I decided to go with the SuperTrickler instead of the V4 because one of the main reasons for me was that the ST is a stand-alone solution. No need for a phone nearby to enter a charge weight or fiddle with the settings. Everything can be done via the touch screen even if you left your phone behind or the battery is low or whatever.
Granted, I currently only load for 3 different calibers but as others mentioned the change between powders is really smooth and easy. And you can copy and paste settings, save profiles for different powders and can even exchange them with other reloaders.
Regarding the clumping of the powder within the vibratory tube: check the settings for dithering, this can remove a standing wave in the tube. I had the problem with VV N140 and I just set the dithering strength a tad higher and voila. No more surprises.
Cleaning this thing is okay-ish. You need to lift it, tilt it and then push a small flap to the side for the remaining powder to flow out. The large tube can be rotated manually. But the ST weighs next to nothing so it's not a menial or strenuous task.
Granted, I currently only load for 3 different calibers but as others mentioned the change between powders is really smooth and easy. And you can copy and paste settings, save profiles for different powders and can even exchange them with other reloaders.
Regarding the clumping of the powder within the vibratory tube: check the settings for dithering, this can remove a standing wave in the tube. I had the problem with VV N140 and I just set the dithering strength a tad higher and voila. No more surprises.
Cleaning this thing is okay-ish. You need to lift it, tilt it and then push a small flap to the side for the remaining powder to flow out. The large tube can be rotated manually. But the ST weighs next to nothing so it's not a menial or strenuous task.
All parts are still available other than the autothrow housing.
The cost of the ST went up with manufacturing process improvements. Gen 1 to gen 2. You can probably still get a gen 1 for the old price, but won't have antistatic housing, and a core component went to CNC production, I believe. I've read post by some who say the have both gen 1 and 2 and can't practically differentiate the two. That being said I did upgrade mine to a gen 2. It's easier to do that when it's only a small fee to upgrade since the price of the gen 1 was already paid so I can't say it's the right or wrong way to go, but those are the options I had.
I don't think the V4 is any better than the V3. It seems to overthrow more often. Clumps aren't something you have to clean, they're just the cause of overthrown typically.
Work is ongoing to make ST more accurate “percentage of throws in target weight tolerance-wise”, but that is a tall task because there is only so much you can do with software to make a fixed hardware situation work better, which is also why software updates have not addressed the V4 shortcomings (for me the V4 deal killer was “shims” in addition to using phone as the interface and having to calibrate powder each time.
What I’m referring to specifically is updates to the functionality, ease of use, and user interface that just make the ST a complete joy to use. Easy intuitive. It just works and works well.
What I’m referring to specifically is updates to the functionality, ease of use, and user interface that just make the ST a complete joy to use. Easy intuitive. It just works and works well.
If you can wait a little longer, Paul at ingenuity precision is coming out with his own electronics and bulk thrower hopefully later this summer...
I like the software, user interface, and bulk charge speed of the super trickler, but i don't like the vibratory final stage. The ingenuity precision notched wheel final stage has me spoiled, it's dead on pretty much every time-- and I can't go back to a less consistent vibratory final stage at this point no matter how good the software and UI of the super trickler is.
Combine the supertrickler software and first stage dispenser with an ingenuity precision final stage, and now I'm interested. I'm pretty sure I could make that happen with a controller and code that varies the speed of the IP trickler based on the pwm signal the supertrickler is sending to the vibratory final stage motor, but at this point I'm waiting to see ingenuity precision's upcoming controller and bulk throw solution before I buy a supertrickler and start another science project.
I like the software, user interface, and bulk charge speed of the super trickler, but i don't like the vibratory final stage. The ingenuity precision notched wheel final stage has me spoiled, it's dead on pretty much every time-- and I can't go back to a less consistent vibratory final stage at this point no matter how good the software and UI of the super trickler is.
Combine the supertrickler software and first stage dispenser with an ingenuity precision final stage, and now I'm interested. I'm pretty sure I could make that happen with a controller and code that varies the speed of the IP trickler based on the pwm signal the supertrickler is sending to the vibratory final stage motor, but at this point I'm waiting to see ingenuity precision's upcoming controller and bulk throw solution before I buy a supertrickler and start another science project.
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This is such a great time to be a shooter/reloader. We're so spoiled with great options nowadays
If you go with a supertrickler do not buy both the supertrickler and the scale at the same time unless they are already stateside. Purchasing both together from supertrickler reaches a price/value threshold on importation (read:costs that are NOT added by supertrickler) and makes you pay a high amount of additional import duties that you should easily avoid paying if purchased and shipped separately.
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https://ingenuityprecision.com/product/ingenuity-powder-meter-preorder/
it’s an aftermarket tricker for the V3 - don’t have one but the design is pretty cool.
I've seen the announcements and such, when it goes live I look forward to seeing how it turns out. If it's great, I'll be happy to run it. I'll keep my ST at least until that time.
Right now I think my biggest reservation is that the V3 + IP is fast and it nearly never overthrows. It's virtually 100% accuracy, or because nothing is ever perfect all the time, let's just say 99.5%. The ST is about as fast as the IP, but it occasionally overthrows. Even if it's running 90% success rate, that's 10% more overthrows than an IP. The ST does some pretty cool stuff, but at the end of the day, I am more interested in not having stoppages to deal with and overall less time at the reloading bench.
Tbh, it's not really a matter of shortcomings on the ST, but rather, it's hard to find faults in the IP setup. But I think it also really depends on one's individual loading process and what specific things the reloader is looking for vs what bugs them. I like loading into a block and stoppages annoy me. Others like to load, seat, repeat and an occasional overthrow isn't a bother to them. Either way, its fantastic that we have so many great options available.
I have a V3 + IP, and I'm happy with it. How much does an overthrow affect accuracy really? My rifle shoots the same at 600y whether it's 35.45, 35.50 or 35.55, and velocity is in a 25fps es window over all 3 charges in a 20 shot sample. I personally feel consistent brass prep and neck tension has a larger affect of velocity/accuracy consistency than having every charge exactly 35.52gr of powder. I love all my guuci ass reloading gear, but guys have shot very small groups for 50 years with much more low-tech/less precise gear than we have today. We have some much available to us now, and it's truly great. I personally use the equipment that saves me the most time in the reloading room, as I'd rather be shooting or spending time with friends/family than weighing charges worrying about 0.04gr over what's commanded.
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this
they all work. and they work well. i spent so much time with a beam scale and then chargemasters and guess what... an AT or ST do the same thing just faster. down range for practical/PRS shooting you won't notice
some of the most accurate rifles in the world for practical shooting use FGMM. and i guarantee that ammo isn't as accurate powder charge wise as what we can produce with an AT/ST
I don't disagree at all, which is why every time someone asks about how to lower their SD, I tell them I found my single greatest reduction in SD came from switching to brass with more consistent internal capacity. I'm looking to shave as much time as possible in my process. In the video I watched, the guy said something like, "If you're willing to accept a 10% overthrow rate, the Supertrickler can throw 100 charges in 11 minutes." That's what I'm looking for. If I have it set for 41.2 grains and it comes on at 41.24, who cares? And if I have an issue with it, I can just dump that charge back into the hopper and let it throw another charge in 5 seconds. I know there are guys who enjoy reloading and Sorenson hours at the bench. I'm not one of them. I find reloading to be a necessity and if I can save 30 minutes somewhere, I will
I almost bought a Supertrickler and from what I see it's a very smart system with the learning capability etc.. I picked up an IP trickler and use it with my V3 thrower and don't think I'll be changing to anything in the near future, it's amazing.
There are beta testers for the ST, some of whom are on SH 
One of the biggest hurdles the developers face is the unwillingness of the end-users to accept compromise. One of the things the ST can do is be completely customized to maximize any variable you want: you want 100% accuracy? Great. Accept a tolerance of 0.04 grains instead of 0.02 and/or a drop time of 20 seconds instead of 10, etc. You want sub-6 second drops? You're shooting 5.56 at under 300 yards? Great. Accept 0.06 and 85% accuracy, and you can get super-retard-speed. There are spreadsheets that allow you to determine where you will get the most bang for your buck in terms of time/accuracy/tolerance. It's somewhere in the 80-90% success range, with 0.02-0.04gr tolerance, and sub-10 second drops. The ST allows the end-user to choose. Which I think is great. There is one guy on the FB group who thinks a software update is coming that will allow sub-5 second drops with near 100% accuracy (no overthrows) and a tolerance of 0.00-0.02 grains. That is NOT reasonable and is NOT going to happen with available hard/software. Nonetheless, I think it's an awesome machine, and I love it and I delight in using it.
One of the biggest hurdles the developers face is the unwillingness of the end-users to accept compromise. One of the things the ST can do is be completely customized to maximize any variable you want: you want 100% accuracy? Great. Accept a tolerance of 0.04 grains instead of 0.02 and/or a drop time of 20 seconds instead of 10, etc. You want sub-6 second drops? You're shooting 5.56 at under 300 yards? Great. Accept 0.06 and 85% accuracy, and you can get super-retard-speed. There are spreadsheets that allow you to determine where you will get the most bang for your buck in terms of time/accuracy/tolerance. It's somewhere in the 80-90% success range, with 0.02-0.04gr tolerance, and sub-10 second drops. The ST allows the end-user to choose. Which I think is great. There is one guy on the FB group who thinks a software update is coming that will allow sub-5 second drops with near 100% accuracy (no overthrows) and a tolerance of 0.00-0.02 grains. That is NOT reasonable and is NOT going to happen with available hard/software. Nonetheless, I think it's an awesome machine, and I love it and I delight in using it.
I throw exactly 40 gr of h4350 on the dot at 7 seconds every single time with a v3 and IP....
Thing is awesome.
If you can find a v2 or v3 and get a ip with it, it's amazing. However if you don't have one already I probably would give the ST a go
Just for the sake of the discussion, what do you consider to be an overthrow. ST or V4.... whatever you might be using? With my V4, and again I've only had it for a couple months and maybe 700 rounds or so, my current target weight for my 6 Creedmoor is 41.4 of H4350. Therefore the accepted tolerance of the V4 is 41.38-41.42. I accept a charge of 41.44 as that is but a single kernel of H4350 and cannot believe a single kernel one way or the other make any measurable difference. I toss and redo anything dropped over 41.44. This is me and what I accept. YOU?? What do you find to be not acceptable as an overthrow?
Yea or just get a V3 + IP and you can have your cake and eat it too. 7-10 second drops to .02 with nearly 100% accuracy is not just achievable, it's the norm.There are beta testers for the ST, some of whom are on SH
Don't turn into a salesman on us now.
I think the closest thing to an "industry standard" on what determines an overthrow is the +/- .02 standard originally set by the autotrickler systems. This is what the V3 documentation mentions and has obviously been carried forward with the green light feature on the V4. This has pretty much been accepted as the standard for most users as far as I know. Of course anyone can accept a charge outside of that boundary like you do. But I think that the majority of the time when you hear someone mention an overthrow, they mean more than .02 over target.
When you start getting into powders like n570 where a single kernel can weigh .08, that may change things a bit.
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I likely wager if you shoot 41.36-41.44 variable over 100 rounds, and shoot exactly 41.40 for 100 rounds, the ES between the two samples will be near the same. 0.08 of H4350 is like 3.5 kernals. Not significantly statistical enough to matter.
I don’t know what’s worse, posters listing factual information about available choices for those trying to make a reasonable decision, or braggarts boasting about the superiority of discontinued machines cobbled together from two different company’s parts that most others cannot get let alone repair once they finally fail.
Getting a V3 is a second hand market, truth. Getting a SupaTrickla is the best if you want to buy new, truth. Gen3 with IP Trickler maintains the tightest adhesion to desired throw weight in the shortest time of all options, truth. Pick your poisin and roll. An over or under throw by 0.04gr of desired will make fuck all different in your accuracy.
In all honesty they are all great machines. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. They all cost a lot of money. I don't think you could say anyone made a "wrong" decision on any of them. It just depends on what your trying to achieve with each one or what you think is most important to you. It does come down to a cost benefit analysis to some extent. If you get the one your heart desires most you just have to be cool with the drawbacks or risks of your decision.
You can say that, but there is no evidence to support the position that accuracy depends upon the arbitrary tolerance of a scales supposed precision. Nobody figured out a priori that 0.02 grains is the optimal level of reloading precision. It’s just what an available scale is able to do. So everybody mindlessly adopts that standard That does not make it optimal. Mitotoyo could come out with a caliper tomorrow measuring to 100,000s of an inch, but that does not mean that we should all strive for that level of precision in our case overall length, or any other cartridge dimension just because the manufacturer made a measurement instrument that is capable of it.
The autotrickler V3 with the ingenuity precision device appears to be the fastest and most accurate way to achieve a target weight for a given setup, I will grant that. The trade-offs in terms of finding a used V3, and setting it up with the ingenuity precision device, and changing the powders and using your phone as an interface and changing discs and whatnot is also obvious. If anyone wants to go that route more power to them. There are trade-offs no matter which way you go and they should not be dismissed outright. There is no point in having a my dicks bigger than yours contest here. We are all just trying to maximize trade-offs in terms of speed, accuracy, convenience, cost, future hassles, and so on.
I don’t know what’s worse, posters listing factual information about available choices for those trying to make a reasonable decision, or obvious shills pretending that V3s are unobtainable and should therefore not even be considered as an option despite them being posted for sale here and elsewhere literally all the time.
We have lots of good options, despite what the shills would have you believe. You don't automatically have to lower your standards because the ST is the only option out there.
I know a dude who bought two or three V3 setups in the last like 2 months. They come up for sale all the time, I bet someone could buy one before their wait for a ST/V4/IP is up. Or don't, who cares.
We have lots of good options, despite what the shills would have you believe. You don't automatically have to lower your standards because the ST is the only option out there.
I know a dude who bought two or three V3 setups in the last like 2 months. They come up for sale all the time, I bet someone could buy one before their wait for a ST/V4/IP is up. Or don't, who cares.
Meaty Petie has great points and by inference from his own declarations is not a shill, so I encourage all to consider his positions very carefully.
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Only powders I haven’t touched so far with my ATv4 is N570 and 20n29, everything else up to h50bmg has been awesome.
I really don’t know what else I could want, the time it takes for me to seat a bullet on the amp press is longer than the powder drop time anyways.
I really don’t know what else I could want, the time it takes for me to seat a bullet on the amp press is longer than the powder drop time anyways.
I have both the ST4 and Supper Tickler. I load both for Long Guns and for Hand guns. Numerous different calibers. I've had the Supper Trickler now 4 months and have not use the ST4 at all. However, i wish I kept ST3 instead of upgrading to the ST4. My two cents.
Last I heard was possibly a late summer unveiling for the ingenuity controller and possibly the bulk thrower, but I'm not sure on when it will actually be available to purchase. While I'd like to either upgrade my custom V1 + Harrell's + IP setup to something with a more user friendly interface or buy a complete new unit, I'm not going to do anything until I see what Paul at ingenuity has come up with.
If you need something *right now*, the Supertrickler is probably the best off the shelf option at the moment.
Adam just released new software for the autotrickler V4 that is supposed to be a big improvement, but I don't have an autotrickler V4 so I can't comment on how well the new software works, or how well a combo of V4 + latest software + IP trickler would perform.
Yes, you can. Adam has been using the same stepper motors since the V1, and ingenuity sells a V4 extension cable. They also sell just the stepper motors in case you don't want to remove the motor from your V4.
Ive used the V4 AT and the Supertrickler. My opinion is the Autotrickler is easier for the average guy to get setup and use right off the bat pretty consistently. The Supertrickler i use now is more complex and requires more time in my opinon, just to get use to the interfaces. I feel like both of them can be made to throw the same charges at relatively the same speed. The supertricklers AI is sweet, and the memorization of powders is great. Once you set it up, there is no more messing around with angles of the machine and shit for different powders.
I have great success with the AI "learning" with 30-40 charges, then just turn the AI off. If you have your vibratory settings correct, which takes getting used to, you will have no issues with it.
My only issue i have had was with N570, and many people do, but slowing the bulk tube down to 70% has solved my problem and i am throwing charges just as good as i can with H4350 and retumbo.
Some people complain about cleaning/emptying the powder and im not sure why. Its simple, it takes about 45 seconds.
You cant go wrong with either of them
I have great success with the AI "learning" with 30-40 charges, then just turn the AI off. If you have your vibratory settings correct, which takes getting used to, you will have no issues with it.
My only issue i have had was with N570, and many people do, but slowing the bulk tube down to 70% has solved my problem and i am throwing charges just as good as i can with H4350 and retumbo.
Some people complain about cleaning/emptying the powder and im not sure why. Its simple, it takes about 45 seconds.
You cant go wrong with either of them
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