AW Rifle groups?

[maggitas]

I am looking hard at getting a Accuracy International rifle here soon. Have used the 700 bolt rifle platform for many years now. Now I want to try the AW rifle platform and see how it works for me. I would like to see some groups from different members here on the hide to reassure me on the price tag. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[treebasher]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

Five pages of information here:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1893199&page=1

 

[Brasscow]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

AE and AW are supposedly the same accuracy. There are a few groups in my thread from my AE here. Read the thread to see which groups are important for your purposes. Mostly top right and then the center group on the white target. The others were warm up/sight in and then a cant test.

I find this is normal for it - between 2" and 4" at 600yds.

 

[rickp]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

Do you really need group size to make you feel better about and AI AW or AE???

It's not just about the groups, you're paying for the whole system and how incredibly well built it is.

R.

 

[cubewarrior]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

Usually less than .75 MOA (often much less) with just about every type of match factory ammo--they aren't finicky at all.

Handloads will go less with a little tuning.

My friend's custom benchrest guns will group a little tighter with tuned ammunition (+/- .25) but they are very finicky rifles regarding the ammunition they like.

I couldn't tell any difference in accuracy between my AE and AW. In fact, both shot exactly the same dope with the 24" barrels all the way to 1K.

 

[MEDICGORDO]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

accuracy between the two could be summed up like this,if a hot redhead and a hot asian walked up to me then ask two choose one my answer would simply be "YES"

 

[deadly0311]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

Ive seen AWs shoot South African 150 grain ball surplus into a .75" group @ 100. My AE stacks 168 AMAXs into slightly bigger holes than a single 30 cal projectile. Both are great systems and both will shoot the same.

 

[bm11]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

My AW is a CONSISTENT .5 moa rifle with me shooting it prone, occasionally I get things right and shoot a group like this:

 

[Luvman]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My AW is a CONSISTENT .5 moa rifle with me shooting it prone, occasionally I get things right and shoot a group like this:

</div></div>

you're zero is off about .1 mil to the right

 

[RSR]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maggitas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking hard at getting a Accuracy International rifle here soon. Have used the 700 bolt rifle platform for many years now. Now I want to try the AW rifle platform and see how it works for me. I would like to see some groups from different members here on the hide to reassure me on the price tag. Any help would be appreciated.</div></div>

All my AE's, AW's, and AWSM will all outshoot me. I hardly ever shoot for groups anymore but if I do my part, the AI holds up its end of the deal. Plus I find them damn sexy! Here is a 3 shot group my buddy did on my AWSM at 1000yds... and each one he called a head shot before squeezing the trigger.

... and obligatory eye candy

 

[SRT_Supply]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maggitas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking hard at getting a Accuracy International rifle here soon. Have used the 700 bolt rifle platform for many years now. Now I want to try the AW rifle platform and see how it works for me. I would like to see some groups from different members here on the hide to reassure me on the price tag. Any help would be appreciated.</div></div>

To summarize what everyone else has said...you <span style="font-weight: bold">WON'T</span> be disappointed. But the main point of the AW isn't just the small groups, it's being able to deliver those results under the worst of conditions, over years and years.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

My AE is the most accurate factory rifle I have shot.

I would say .75 MOA with just about any "Match" ammo (except Prvi) is an accurate expectation.

Federal Gold Metal match comes in under that and Hornady "Custom" 168 Amax is amazing. I need to contact Hornady and get a larger sample to see if the AE continues to turn in 1/4" 100 yard groups with it.

After the initial testing I have not done a whole lot of group shooting, because group shooting usually leads to more group shooting. I prefer to work on shooting longer range steel FAST or individual small, close range targets.

My AI AE Mk II review can be read here:

http://www.8541tactical.com/AIAEMk2%20article.php

 

[Deisel]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

I have an AI AWSM in .338 LM and the last time I needed to zero it it shot .5 or less. I recently bought an AI AW which is getting rebarreled at GAP now to .260. They are pricey, but they have a lot of nice features and are a very well thought out package which is extremely reliable.

 

[Dogtown]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

They're arguably the best factory rifles out there.

 

[desertHK]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RSR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maggitas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking hard at getting a Accuracy International rifle here soon. Have used the 700 bolt rifle platform for many years now. Now I want to try the AW rifle platform and see how it works for me. I would like to see some groups from different members here on the hide to reassure me on the price tag. Any help would be appreciated.</div></div>

All my AE's, AW's, and AWSM will all outshoot me. I hardly ever shoot for groups anymore but if I do my part, the AI holds up its end of the deal. Plus I find them damn sexy! Here is a 3 shot group my buddy did on my AWSM at 1000yds... and each one he called a head shot before squeezing the trigger.

... and obligatory eye candy

</div></div>

Nice collection. I only have two now. What calibers are those besides the 338LM, 308 and may be 300wm?

 

[desertHK]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

If you want the smallest possible group size, then the AWs, or AE might not be the right rifle for you. I am certain that there are custom rifles out there that can do smaller groups than the AI rifles. What you are paying for is the reliability, ruggedness and accuracy all combined in one platform. My AIAWs will outshoot me on any given day.

 

[Edgewater]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want the smallest possible group size, then the AWs, or AE might not be the right rifle for you. I am certain that there are custom rifles out there that can do smaller groups than the AI rifles. What you are paying for is the reliability, ruggedness and accuracy all combined in one platform. My AIAWs will outshoot me on any given day. </div></div>

My AI will hang with any custom gun out there. And function under any condition!

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want the smallest possible group size, then the AWs, or AE might not be the right rifle for you. I am certain that there are custom rifles out there that can do smaller groups than the AI rifles. What you are paying for is the reliability, ruggedness and accuracy all combined in one platform. My AIAWs will outshoot me on any given day. </div></div>

Seen a lot of "customs" that couldn't shoot better than my AE go "click" when the shooter wanted "bang".

If you want a benchrest rifle, then a AI would probably be a bad choice. If you are looking for a "tactical" rifle, there are not a whole lot of tactical competitions where even the AE would be at a disadvantage against a full custom.

 

[maggitas]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

Thanks guys I believe you have given me the answer I was looking for. The consensus seems to be you give up a bit of accuracy for ruggedness and longevity. It seems I have a decision to make.

Regards,

Johnny

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

Just build a bench gun if you are really interested in shooting groups at 100. The AIs are not built to shoot .010" groups. They are built for you to throw them off your roof, drag them through mud and shot in freezing cold conditions without ever malfunctioning. I think there is only a 1MOA guarantee on the AI's.

 

[SRT_Supply]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maggitas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys I believe you have given me the answer I was looking for. The consensus seems to be you give up a bit of accuracy for ruggedness and longevity. It seems I have a decision to make.

Regards,

Johnny</div></div>

It depends on what you define as "a bit". The benchrest world is one thing, where you're talking a quarter-minute or better, but the flip side of that is that those guns will never see a single round of factory ammunition in their entire lives, and they're completely unsuited for use anywhere <span style="font-style: italic">other</span> than on a square range under ideal circumstances. Guys claiming those levels of accuracy are also using front rests that probably weigh more than my entire rig combined.

Realistically, it's a safe assumption to make that you'll be getting 1/2 MOA or better from an AI using good ammo and a shooter who knows how to squeeze the trigger. Handloading for your rifle will quite likely improve that further. Personally, my AE will print about .3 with really good match ammo and no shooter stupidity, and my handloads are averaging about .45 (5rd/100yd) with virtually zero brass prepping, weighing, and throwing the powder (which is giving about a 70 fps extreme spread). Given all of that, it's pretty damn good performance. You're not going to find better for what it's meant to do, and nor are you probably able to match the capabilities of the rifle itself. If you want a benchrest rifle, then you're talking an entirely different sport. If you want something to take out in the field or to a competition, that'll keep working after being bashed around and covered in the worst crap you can find, then get an AI.

 

[senna.bra]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

Go to the AI web site, under gallery you will see a target I shot at 100 meters. That was hand load with lapua bullet, case and VV powder. I have shot groups in the teens w my AW, but with their 1-12 twist you will find the 168gr and 175gr Sierra to work the best. In 308 Varget and any of these two bullets you will be fine.

SC

 

[nolo263]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

I have two AI's, .308 and .338 the .308 will easily shoot half. The .338 will easily outshoot the .308.

 

[gugubica]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

Actually, an AI in 338LM holds the record for shooting the best group at the longest distance.











I believe the group was a bad guy, a bad guy and a machine gun at almost two miles.

 

[bm11]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

I think you would really be splitting hairs to say that you are giving up ANYTHING in terms of accuracy with an AW.

 

[rickp]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

See next

 

[rickp]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

My AW shoots .5 MOA when the nut behind the gun is aligned with the force, and that's with factory match ammo. I'm sure the rifle could 1/4" groups if the shooter was a 1/4 MOA shooter. I'm not.

R.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maggitas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys I believe you have given me the answer I was looking for. The consensus seems to be you give up a bit of accuracy for ruggedness and longevity. It seems I have a decision to make.

Regards,

Johnny </div></div>

Actually Johnny, I think accuracy is not something that you have to worry about. The AW and the AE MKII will pretty much outshoot most users & most other rifles. It is more of a choice on if you like the way the AI rifles are setup (stock, trigger, etc) or if you want something more customized to fit a specific need or your like / dislike of the stock. I would probably say the stock is one of the biggest love it or hate it points on the AI rifles.

If you plan to do benchrest shooting, then you would want a benchrest gun with a big flat bottom to sit on the mechanical rests with tons more weight and in some more exotic caliber

If you are doing matches where you are mostly doing positional shooting and can't use a bipod, you would find the weight a bit much and may want something much lighter with a thinner stock.

For Prone shooting off a bipod or sandbags the AW and AE MKII pretty much are in the top group of the class.

In tactical matches where your guns need to run hard and dirty as well as go the distance in bad condtions (as opposed to a nice bright sunny day on the range being carefully handled) is where the AI rifles really shine, and will give you the confidence to run them hard regardless of the surrounding conditions.

If you shoot your rifle a lot, you also have the advantage that you can just order a new barrel from AI and install it yourself & be back up and running in no time without having to send it to a gunsmith.

Now all that being said, If you wanted a customized rifle on a stock that you prefer, you could easily have George over at GAP build you a rifle setup for a specific bullet/load/seating combo that would be more accurate than the AI rifles which are setup to work with a wide variety of both match and military ammo.

 

[hochung]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there is only a 1MOA guarantee on the AI's. </div></div>

and if you want better than that, check out TacOps in Beverly Hills. I think they have some Xray rifle that guarantees 1/4 MOA all day long.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you would really be splitting hairs to say that you are giving up ANYTHING in terms of accuracy with an AW. </div></div>

yup....

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

if you are good enough to shoot 1/4" groups at 100yds repeatedly i would worry about it, but very very few of us are. if you are looking for a tactical rifle anything that will shoot 1/2moa works great period. the day any of my rifles hold 1/2moa at 1000yds i will be beyond excited, hell i am pumped when i can hold 1moa at at 1000yds. unless you are a benchrest shooter or ridiculously good the aiaw will outshoot your abilities everytime. i don't mean this in any offensive way it will do the same with me and i am a fairly experienced shooter.

 

[johndoe]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

I bought for rugedness and reliability. As far as accuracy they shoot
like my Trg's And Remingtons, but then again I am happy with anything
resembling .5 moa.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ho Chung</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there is only a 1MOA guarantee on the AI's. </div></div>

and if you want better than that, check out TacOps in Beverly Hills. I think they have some Xray rifle that guarantees 1/4 MOA all day long. </div></div>

IIRC the TacOps guarantee is 3 rounds into 1/4" @ 100 yards with Federal Gold Metal Match.

I have a qualification target around here somewhere that has 3 rounds into 1/4" from my AE MkII. That's on the clock, on demand after physical exertion. I can't ALWAYS do this, but I think that's more of a factor of me than the rifle.

There are a couple of members on here that can attest that during the last tactical match, when I was confirming my zero, I put three through the same hole. Those were 175gr SMK handloads (my "stock" handload, not tailored to the rifle).

I am not mentioning this to put down TacOps. I am just mentioning it to demonstrate that you don't need a guarantee to have an accurate rifle. A TacOps is a custom rifle. There are plenty of customs out there that will shoot bugholes. We are talking about a production rifle that will shoot bugholes.

 

[Lindy]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

Accuracy International's specification - which I believe is not a guarantee - is that the rifle will shoot under a MOA under all conditions.

I've never seen one which wasn't well under a MOA.

Jacob Bynum's AW, with over 90,000 rounds through it, and on, I think, its tenth barrel, is a half-MOA rifle when fired by a person who knows how to shoot.

Try that with anyone else's rifle.

I'm not putting down anyone else's rifle. My point is for anyone who might have a concern that an AI isn't accurate enough - don't worry about it. It is.

Malcolm Cooper designed the AIs so that the actions could be built straight, shoot straight, and stay straight. They do.

If I only owned one rifle, it would be an AI. And I own one.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ho Chung</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there is only a 1MOA guarantee on the AI's. </div></div>

and if you want better than that, check out TacOps in Beverly Hills. I think they have some Xray rifle that guarantees 1/4 MOA all day long. </div></div>

All day long... is that right?

 

[Guest]

Re: AW Rifle groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ho Chung</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there is only a 1MOA guarantee on the AI's. </div></div>

and if you want better than that, check out TacOps in Beverly Hills. I think they have some Xray rifle that guarantees 1/4 MOA all day long. </div></div>

All day long... is that right? </div></div>

......if he does his part