Ballistic Advantage barrel users?

[danr]

Gents, I’m wondering if anyone has been disappointed using Hornady MATCH bullets with BA barrels. I’m on my third BA barrel 556/6.5 Grendel/6mm ARC and have not been able to group better than 1 1/2” groups hand loads or hornady factory ammunition. Same with my buddies 6.5 Grendel. Then he switched to Sierra match bullets and bingo! I did the same and results were immediate. I’m asking about hornady match bullets only, not ELDs-Xs. Hornady match bullets shoot well in my bolt guns so I like em and they’re priced right just have not been able to get them to group tight in the ARs. I like Hornady bullets, really!

 

[Molon]

Riiiigth. It's the Hornady bullets. Not your cheap-ass BA barrels.


Reloading For The AR-15: Hornady 75 Grain BTHP

Hornady produces three different versions of their 75 grain open-tip-match bullet in 22 caliber (0.224”). For this article, we’ll be looking at the projectile that is colloquially referred to as the “T1”.

The T1 is available as a reloading component, with a product number of #2279 for the 100 count boxes. It’s also available in 600 and 4000 count boxes.

I use the Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullet to load match-grade hand-loads for my semi-automatic AR-15s chambered in 5.56mm/223 Remington. According to Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets by Bryan Litz, the Hornady 75 grain BTHP has an average G1 ballistic coefficient of 0.356 and an average G7 ballistic coefficient of 0.183.

The lot of T1 projectiles used for this article have a nominal length of 0.988” and I load them to a nominal COAL of 2.245”. When fired from a Colt SOCOM barrel with a 5.56mm NATO chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 178 thousandths of an inch. When fired from a Larue Stealth barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 115 thousandths of an inch and when fired from a Krieger barrel with a 223 Remington chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 78 thousandths of an inch.

The jump to the lands figures stated above where obtained using a Sinclair bullet seating depth gauge and a Forster 223 Remington 1.4636” head-space gauge. These figures are contingent upon a variety of variables, such as the particular chamber reamer that was used for your barrel, the number of rounds that have been fired through your barrel when the measurement is obtained, the particular lot of bullets used and whether you use a virgin case, a fired case, a resized case or a head-space gauge to obtain this measurement.

WARNING!
Reloading is an inherently dangerous activity. The information provided here is for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be used for the actual loading of ammunition by the reader. No warranty, guarantee or assurance that these loads are safe is stated, suggested or implied nor should any be inferred. Usage of this information for the actual loading of ammunition may result in malfunctions, damage and destruction of property and grave injury or death to beings human in nature or otherwise. Don't even view this information in the presence of children or small animals.




For this hand-load of the Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullet, I use virgin Lake City brass that has been weight-sorted, match-prepped and neck-sized. The cases are primed with Federal GM205M primers and charged with VihtaVuori N140 powder and as mentioned above, the T1 projectile is seated to a COAL of 2.245”. This process is conducted in a semi-progressive manner on a Dillon XL-650 press using a Pact Digital electronic powder dispenser and scale to dispense a powder charge of 24.1 grains of the VihtaVuori N140.

When chronographed from a 20” Colt A2 barrel, a 10-shot string of this hand-load fired over an Oehler 35P produced a muzzle velocity of 2638 FPS with a standard deviation of 4 FPS and a coefficient of variation of 0.15%. (The muzzle velocity was calculated from the instrumental velocity using Oehler Ballistic Explorer.) A 10-shot group fired from one of my Krieger barreled AR-15s, at distance of 100 yards using my bench-rest set-up, had an extreme spread of 0.526 MOA.

No canines were harmed during the testing of this ammunition.

....

 

[danr]

Riiiigth. It's the Hornady bullets. Not your cheap-ass BA barrels.


Reloading For The AR-15: Hornady 75 Grain BTHP

Hornady produces three different versions of their 75 grain open-tip-match bullet in 22 caliber (0.224”). For this article, we’ll be looking at the projectile that is colloquially referred to as the “T1”.

The T1 is available as a reloading component, with a product number of #2279 for the 100 count boxes. It’s also available in 600 and 4000 count boxes.

I use the Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullet to load match-grade hand-loads for my semi-automatic AR-15s chambered in 5.56mm/223 Remington. According to Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets by Bryan Litz, the Hornady 75 grain BTHP has an average G1 ballistic coefficient of 0.356 and an average G7 ballistic coefficient of 0.183.

The lot of T1 projectiles used for this article have a nominal length of 0.988” and I load them to a nominal COAL of 2.245”. When fired from a Colt SOCOM barrel with a 5.56mm NATO chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 178 thousandths of an inch. When fired from a Larue Stealth barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 115 thousandths of an inch and when fired from a Krieger barrel with a 223 Remington chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 78 thousandths of an inch.

The jump to the lands figures stated above where obtained using a Sinclair bullet seating depth gauge and a Forster 223 Remington 1.4636” head-space gauge. These figures are contingent upon a variety of variables, such as the particular chamber reamer that was used for your barrel, the number of rounds that have been fired through your barrel when the measurement is obtained, the particular lot of bullets used and whether you use a virgin case, a fired case, a resized case or a head-space gauge to obtain this measurement.

WARNING!
Reloading is an inherently dangerous activity. The information provided here is for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be used for the actual loading of ammunition by the reader. No warranty, guarantee or assurance that these loads are safe is stated, suggested or implied nor should any be inferred. Usage of this information for the actual loading of ammunition may result in malfunctions, damage and destruction of property and grave injury or death to beings human in nature or otherwise. Don't even view this information in the presence of children or small animals.




For this hand-load of the Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullet, I use virgin Lake City brass that has been weight-sorted, match-prepped and neck-sized. The cases are primed with Federal GM205M primers and charged with VihtaVuori N140 powder and as mentioned above, the T1 projectile is seated to a COAL of 2.245”. This process is conducted in a semi-progressive manner on a Dillon XL-650 press using a Pact Digital electronic powder dispenser and scale to dispense a powder charge of 24.1 grains of the VihtaVuori N140.

When chronographed from a 20” Colt A2 barrel, a 10-shot string of this hand-load fired over an Oehler 35P produced a muzzle velocity of 2638 FPS with a standard deviation of 4 FPS and a coefficient of variation of 0.15%. (The muzzle velocity was calculated from the instrumental velocity using Oehler Ballistic Explorer.) A 10-shot group fired from one of my Krieger barreled AR-15s, at distance of 100 yards using my bench-rest set-up, had an extreme spread of 0.526 MOA.

No canines were harmed during the testing of this ammunition.

....

Hey , that’s a messed up response Bro! And I did err on the BA 556 barrel which does shoot consistent 5/8-3/4” groups with the hornady 75 bthps with CFE 223, W748 and Varget. Cheap ass barrels huh? They’ll hang next to anything next to em. I prove it time and time again on the firing line. Now how about a response from actual BA users with a response to the question I asked and not taking it elsewhere cause this isn’t a my barrel or bullet is better than yours post and was never intended as such.

 

[longshot2000]

Hey , that’s a messed up response Bro! And I did err on the BA 556 barrel which does shoot consistent 5/8-3/4” groups with the hornady 75 bthps with CFE 223, W748 and Varget. Cheap ass barrels huh? They’ll hang next to anything next to em. I prove it time and time again on the firing line. Now how about a response from actual BA users with a response to the question I asked and not taking it elsewhere cause this isn’t a my barrel or bullet is better than yours post and was never intended as such.

The barrel is the heart of the AR rifle system. The barrel makes the gun, and all other parts support it and help define it. Once chooses an average barrel for general recreation. A chrome lined or nitride barrel for corrosion resistance, close quarter combat and durability. They last forever. Stainless match barrels tend to be more accurate, get shot out faster (worn) and are typically longer barrels and used in longer range shooting.

BA barrels are known to be value buys and good for average shooting. I would be very surprised to see an average sampling of BA barreled gas guns hitting 3/4 MOA, let alone 5/8" groups at 100 yards. The mechanics of the AR15 or AT10 platform take off at least 1/4 MOA from a good bolt gun.

 

[danr]

right now I’m trying to get my 6 arc to shoot but next time I run out to the range I’ll shoot multiple 5 shot groups with both my BA 556 with hornady 75 bthps and my 6.5 Grendel with Sierra 120 mks and let’s see if we can’t “surprise “ you. You know now a days, and for quite a while, it’s not difficult to get any given barrel to shoot well with the right bullet powder primer combination. All I’m getting from these responses seems like back in the day when long range competitions were just starting up in my area, you had these gents lining up next to me with their AI’s and such (which are awesome rifles) yet we’re getting there’s asses handed to them (sorry don’t know another way of putting it) by a stock Rem 700 Police model. Look all I’m looking for here is the possible suggestion that BA’s chambers maybe don’t like hornady’s match bullet profile because 3 of mine don’t. Would seem to me guys shooting these barrels would be the only relevant responses to address this posting. Thanks anyway

 

[BCP]

I’ve found Hornady bullets to be more sensitive to seating depth than sierra. The 75bthp only shot well for me t 2.25” and the 178 amax at 2.78. No Grendel numbers off the top of my head sorry.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

I have a couple but haven't done a whole lot of work with them. I'd call them 3/4 - MOA. My guess is they have long throats so any bullet that doesn't jump well isn't going to be as accurate. I have a 700 .308 and last time I checked 168 SMK jump .125 in it. Best groups out of it with the old AMAX used a much longer OAL.

When you can catch WOA on sale for around 200 with shipping, I just buy more of them.

 

[r.tenorio671]

...FWIW, I have BA barrels in 300BLK, 556/.223, .308Win & 6ARC, all AR platforms. I have found tangent & "hybrid" bullets more forgiving of jump and easier to find a tighter shooting load than with the secant style bullets. The bullet you referenced is a secant style. It is possible to develop an accurate load for BA barrels when using secant bullets. The 2 pics below are pressure test results from my BA 6ARC w/Berger 95VLD (secant) and 308 w/HDY 155 OTM (secant) comparing to FGMM 168 (tangent), both are from the first range session of the new barrels.

 

[Eskrimador]

You are doing a precision gas gun did you check or true up the receiver face?

My 6.5 Grendel with a BA barrel shoots sub Moa with hornady black 123 eld m loads.

 

[Eskrimador]

You are doing a precision gas gun did you check or true up the receiver face?

My 6.5 Grendel with a BA barrel shoots sub Moa with hornady black 123 eld m loads.

 

[danr]

You are doing a precision gas gun did you check or true up the receiver face?

My 6.5 Grendel with a BA barrel shoots sub Moa with hornady black 123 eld m loads.

Nope I just slapped it together like quite a few before it but yes no doubt truing would eliminate that doubt regarding accuracy. But you see that target r.tenorio671 posted , specifically the group on the right, I can get my Grendel to consistently group like that with Sierra 120 mk’s/AR Comp load. And my buddies Grendel which also would not group with hornady match bullets (not talking about eld’s) instantly starting grouping with Sierra 120 mk’s/RL-15. I have some Sierra 107 mk’s comíng in this week and anxious to throw some loads. We’ll see if this BA 6 arc barrel doesn’t respond like the Grendel’s did. Thanks for the responses

 

[danr]

I have a couple but haven't done a whole lot of work with them. I'd call them 3/4 - MOA. My guess is they have long throats so any bullet that doesn't jump well isn't going to be as accurate. I have a 700 .308 and last time I checked 168 SMK jump .125 in it. Best groups out of it with the old AMAX used a much longer OAL.

When you can catch WOA on sale for around 200 with shipping, I just buy more of them.

Sounds good. 3/4 moa and near 2700 fps from my 22” is what I’m shooting for.

 

[stevieb92]

I've been very happy with the BA barrel (6.5 CM 22 inch heavy barrel) in my Mega Arms MATEN LR-308 AR. Here are a few targets during load development using the 130 ELD-M and 140 ELD-M bullets from a few years ago.

 

[r.tenorio671]

...I remember stevieb92's chronicling his 6.5CM build, alot of good info in that thread. The projectiles he used are "secant" profiles, indicative that once one finds the jump/charge combination that worked with the barrel an accurate load can be found...

..... AFAIK, Ballistic Advantage barrels are not drilled and rifled by BA but sourced from barrel blank source(s), the contouring and finishing are done by BA....

Edited: IMHO, the assemblage care and procedures of the selected parts used in the build and the ammo have more to do with reported "accuracy" by users, the shooters abilities aside...

 

[tomme boy]

Here is BA QC for you. They sent out a butt load of barrels with this throat. That ridge was on every land in the throat. This was the Premium Black SS SPR series in a 18". There were a few other guys on sevral other boards that got the same thing in different grades of their barrels.

You may get a good one. But none of the 3 I have had met their 1 MOA guarantee. I sold all with the warning. I ended up getting a WOA spr and it shoots 60gr vmax under a 1/2".

Friends don't let friends buy BA or Faxon barrels!

 

[Carlos Danger]

I just received my BA barrel for my 6.5 AR build a couple weeks ago. I guess time will tell on how it shoots. I'll try to post up results.

 

[338dude]

View attachment 8062712


Here is BA QC for you. They sent out a butt load of barrels with this throat. That ridge was on every land in the throat. This was the Premium Black SS SPR series in a 18". There were a few other guys on sevral other boards that got the same thing in different grades of their barrels.

You may get a good one. But none of the 3 I have had met their 1 MOA guarantee. I sold all with the warning. I ended up getting a WOA spr and it shoots 60gr vmax under a 1/2".

Friends don't let friends buy BA or Faxon barrels!

I have an 18 inch barrel from them. I’ve never scoped it but I think I will now.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Riiiigth. It's the Hornady bullets. Not your cheap-ass BA barrels.


Reloading For The AR-15: Hornady 75 Grain BTHP

Hornady produces three different versions of their 75 grain open-tip-match bullet in 22 caliber (0.224”). For this article, we’ll be looking at the projectile that is colloquially referred to as the “T1”.

The T1 is available as a reloading component, with a product number of #2279 for the 100 count boxes. It’s also available in 600 and 4000 count boxes.

I use the Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullet to load match-grade hand-loads for my semi-automatic AR-15s chambered in 5.56mm/223 Remington. According to Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets by Bryan Litz, the Hornady 75 grain BTHP has an average G1 ballistic coefficient of 0.356 and an average G7 ballistic coefficient of 0.183.

The lot of T1 projectiles used for this article have a nominal length of 0.988” and I load them to a nominal COAL of 2.245”. When fired from a Colt SOCOM barrel with a 5.56mm NATO chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 178 thousandths of an inch. When fired from a Larue Stealth barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 115 thousandths of an inch and when fired from a Krieger barrel with a 223 Remington chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 78 thousandths of an inch.

The jump to the lands figures stated above where obtained using a Sinclair bullet seating depth gauge and a Forster 223 Remington 1.4636” head-space gauge. These figures are contingent upon a variety of variables, such as the particular chamber reamer that was used for your barrel, the number of rounds that have been fired through your barrel when the measurement is obtained, the particular lot of bullets used and whether you use a virgin case, a fired case, a resized case or a head-space gauge to obtain this measurement.

WARNING!
Reloading is an inherently dangerous activity. The information provided here is for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be used for the actual loading of ammunition by the reader. No warranty, guarantee or assurance that these loads are safe is stated, suggested or implied nor should any be inferred. Usage of this information for the actual loading of ammunition may result in malfunctions, damage and destruction of property and grave injury or death to beings human in nature or otherwise. Don't even view this information in the presence of children or small animals.




For this hand-load of the Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullet, I use virgin Lake City brass that has been weight-sorted, match-prepped and neck-sized. The cases are primed with Federal GM205M primers and charged with VihtaVuori N140 powder and as mentioned above, the T1 projectile is seated to a COAL of 2.245”. This process is conducted in a semi-progressive manner on a Dillon XL-650 press using a Pact Digital electronic powder dispenser and scale to dispense a powder charge of 24.1 grains of the VihtaVuori N140.

When chronographed from a 20” Colt A2 barrel, a 10-shot string of this hand-load fired over an Oehler 35P produced a muzzle velocity of 2638 FPS with a standard deviation of 4 FPS and a coefficient of variation of 0.15%. (The muzzle velocity was calculated from the instrumental velocity using Oehler Ballistic Explorer.) A 10-shot group fired from one of my Krieger barreled AR-15s, at distance of 100 yards using my bench-rest set-up, had an extreme spread of 0.526 MOA.

No canines were harmed during the testing of this ammunition.

....

so I have to disagree as I've several barrels that don't like hornady at all. Some love, others hate and doesn't matter the recipe. odd I know but it's been my experience as well. This is with multiple barrel brands, none of which are BA (lothar walther, CL, etc for a few)

 

[BCP]

I've had a bunch of the BA barrels, most were around 1MOA, a couple shot really well, one was a dud, about what you'd expect for the 100-150 bucks they cost me. For some reason the Sniper's Hide Autism Brigade loses its shit whenever BA barrels are mentioned.

so I have to disagree as I've several barrels that don't like hornady at all. Some love, others hate and doesn't matter the recipe. odd I know but it's been my experience as well. This is with multiple barrel brands, none of which are BA (lothar walther, CL, etc for a few)

I've had the same experience, sierras are more consistent performers imho.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I've had a bunch of the BA barrels, most were around 1MOA, a couple shot really well, one was a dud, about what you'd expect for the 100-150 bucks they cost me. For some reason the Sniper's Hide Autism Brigade loses its shit whenever BA barrels are mentioned.



I've had the same experience, sierras are more consistent performers imho.

agree
I actually think Hornady sucks from my experience

 

[jb0311]

I've had a bunch of the BA barrels, most were around 1MOA, a couple shot really well, one was a dud, about what you'd expect for the 100-150 bucks they cost me. For some reason the Sniper's Hide Autism Brigade loses its shit whenever BA barrels are mentioned.



I've had the same experience, sierras are more consistent performers imho.

I think it’s been mentioned before on here, by Frank Green maybe(?), that when you are purchasing a top tier barrel, you are paying extra for the LIKELIHOOD, that the barrel is a shooter. Are there BA barrels that shoot well? Absolutely. Are there bartlein barrels that don’t shoot worth a shit? Sometimes. But grab a single bartlein and a single BA barrel out of a pile and one is more likely to shoot better than the other.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I think it’s been mentioned before on here, by Frank Green maybe(?), that when you are purchasing a top tier barrel, you are paying extra for the LIKELIHOOD, that the barrel is a shooter. Are there BA barrels that shoot well? Absolutely. Are there bartlein barrels that don’t shoot worth a shit? Sometimes. But grab a single bartlein and a single BA barrel out of a pile and one is more likely to shoot better than the other.

can agree with this and for the price, I'd argue that it should shoot well and not likely but alas, ....

 

[Nebulous]

View attachment 8062712


Here is BA QC for you. They sent out a butt load of barrels with this throat. That ridge was on every land in the throat. This was the Premium Black SS SPR series in a 18". There were a few other guys on sevral other boards that got the same thing in different grades of their barrels.

You may get a good one. But none of the 3 I have had met their 1 MOA guarantee. I sold all with the warning. I ended up getting a WOA spr and it shoots 60gr vmax under a 1/2".

Friends don't let friends buy BA or Faxon barrels!

just kinda confused why you didn't contact BA for replacements when they have a sub MOA guarantee and their CS is better than their QC?

 

[Pickle Rick]

Gents, I’m wondering if anyone has been disappointed using Hornady MATCH bullets with BA barrels. I’m on my third BA barrel 556/6.5 Grendel/6mm ARC and have not been able to group better than 1 1/2” groups hand loads or hornady factory ammunition. Same with my buddies 6.5 Grendel. Then he switched to Sierra match bullets and bingo! I did the same and results were immediate. I’m asking about hornady match bullets only, not ELDs-Xs. Hornady match bullets shoot well in my bolt guns so I like em and they’re priced right just have not been able to get them to group tight in the ARs. I like Hornady bullets, really! View attachment 8061035

My 6.5 creedmoor barrel likes the 130gr ELD-M. Not so much the 140gr ELD.

 

[danr]

I have an 18 inch barrel from them. I’ve never scoped it but I think I will now.

I don’t want to know guess I’ve been fortunate and as long as mine keep shooting I’m good

 

[Pickle Rick]

Hey , that’s a messed up response Bro! And I did err on the BA 556 barrel which does shoot consistent 5/8-3/4” groups with the hornady 75 bthps with CFE 223, W748 and Varget. Cheap ass barrels huh? They’ll hang next to anything next to em. I prove it time and time again on the firing line. Now how about a response from actual BA users with a response to the question I asked and not taking it elsewhere cause this isn’t a my barrel or bullet is better than yours post and was never intended as such.

I don’t want to know guess I’ve been fortunate and as long as mine keep shooting I’m good

I have a 16” Hanson. Doesn’t look pretty inside but with the 69smk and Varget it shoots amazing

 

[n2ishun]

I have one.
Won't say it's the holy grail, but it'll shoot under an inch with a few loads.

 

[B y r o n]

I think that what you're going to find is that the Hornady Match bullet is more like a VLD which can be temperamental to seating depth. Sierra on the other hand has designed bullets that are less temperamental and will handle jump better than VLD's. I think this is where your accuracy issue is.

 

[Dildobaggins]

If you've got 3 barrels from a company and none are sub moa, it's time to move on. Not trying to be a douche. I forgot who said it on here. But it went something like, when you buy a barrel all you are buying is probability. The probability that a cheap barrel with shoot well is low. The probability that a high end or mid range barrel will shoot well is high. This is also from experience. First ar I owned had a BA barrel in 5.56. I fed it everything and could not get it to shoot sub moa 3 shot groups. Bought a white oak armament barrel and it changed real quick.

The way I see it, you can continue to spend time and money on trying to find a load that shoots well in your barrel a possibly be successful, or cut your losses and get a better barrel, with a high probability of shooting well with a wide range of different bullets. I'll never buy another BA barrel again. Way too many threads on here and other sites with the same issues.

 

[tomme boy]

just kinda confused why you didn't contact BA for replacements when they have a sub MOA guarantee and their CS is better than their QC?

I did contact them. They were all replaced. And then sold. I can see maybe one barrel being bad, BUT 3!!!!!! Thats why they were sold after being replaced.

Want to know whats really funny? I bought a unfinished Sabre Defense barrel off of Numrich. In the white with no gas port drilled. I drilled it myself to 0.068" and cold blued it. It shoots just about everything under 1". All for the whopping price of 47$ delivered. So I seen they had a SS 16" mid fluted with no port for $55. Got that one and it shoots everything under 1" as well. It really likes the Hornady 62gr hpbt. It will shoot that under 1/2".

Did I get lucky with those 2 barrels? No! Sabre Defense had some of the most accurate factory barrels made outside of custom. I knew that before I bought them. I used them in the past and they were awesome!

But BA has its place for a budget barrel as long as you know what you are getting into. I have had 2 BCA barrels that were more accurate than the 3 BA barrels I had. That tells you something right there.

 

[jb0311]

If you've got 3 barrels from a company and none are sub moa, it's time to move on. Not trying to be a douche. I forgot who said it on here. But it went something like, when you buy a barrel all you are buying is probability. The probability that a cheap barrel with shoot well is low. The probability that a high end or mid range barrel will shoot well is high. This is also from experience. First ar I owned had a BA barrel in 5.56. I fed it everything and could not get it to shoot sub moa 3 shot groups. Bought a white oak armament barrel and it changed real quick.

The way I see it, you can continue to spend time and money on trying to find a load that shoots well in your barrel a possibly be successful, or cut your losses and get a better barrel, with a high probability of shooting well with a wide range of different bullets. I'll never buy another BA barrel again. Way too many threads on here and other sites with the same issues.

I think it’s been mentioned before on here, by Frank Green maybe(?), that when you are purchasing a top tier barrel, you are paying extra for the LIKELIHOOD, that the barrel is a shooter. Are there BA barrels that shoot well? Absolutely. Are there bartlein barrels that don’t shoot worth a shit? Sometimes. But grab a single bartlein and a single BA barrel out of a pile and one is more likely to shoot better than the other.