Ballistic-X App - Update inbound...Give us Feedback!

[ballisticxapp]

Development begins this Monday for a revamp of layout, added features for base App, and additional features in the Advanced Toolkit. From the start, the App has been $7.99 for life. No ads or gimmicks and the App has grown in features since then. The Toolkit was a means to generate additional funding ($9.99/year) for the Advanced user. This has been slow but intended to grow with comprehensive logs and data, which will be happening this time around. App Development is not cheap! Mean Radius was the main feature behind the paywall, but after Hornady ripped off the App and included Mean Radius in their version, we went ahead and included it in our Base App. I’m very pro capitalist and pro competition as it’s great for consumers but the unoriginality annoyed me. I also realize any future work I do is essential R&D for them to copy…but I digress. We have had complaints of those that purchased the base App and were upset that the other functions were not accessible, resulting in a bad review. It was never my intention to be gimmicky like that but the distinction between base App and Toolkit has not been as clear as it should have been. Other bad reviews have been almost 100% misunderstanding of functions or the App coming unstable after a phone update. It’s surprising how many are upset that the App “doesn’t support 300 BLK caliber”. With the crashes, we generally resolve them within a day or two, but the negative reviews are seldom rectified. If you’ve used our App, we’d love a review to help offset that! Anyhow, onto the coming updates:

First up is Auto-Targets. Lots of people have requested Auto Impact marking but that’s actually the last thing on the list for Automation. Having printable targets that the App can recognize means one could print, shoot, then hover App camera, which then auto aligns and captures image. Size Reference and Point Of Aim can both be easily established and automated. Impacts perhaps could be as well but with more variables with precision stacking, which would require manual override…which gets a bit in the weeds.

From the start of the App, I’ve wanted to add metrics and accountability to shooting. My frustration with cherry picked groups and “.5 MOA all day if I do my part” has never subsided. The merits of 3 round, 5 round, etc are well established and have been for years. A 10 round group is cool and sure, is a better representation of the rifle…but in most cases, every round cannot be accounted for which means the your left with messing ES/Extreme Spread.

Here are the parameters:

1. Standard 8.5x11”
2. Precise POA
3. POA 1 MOA/.3 MIL lower than POI so impacts do not alter POA
4. 3x 3 round Groups so each impact can be accounted. 5x per can be done but more likely to not be able to distinguish all 5 impacts.

This makes the target accessible for everyone for data at 100 yards. It gives 3x groups which will output standard MOA results and standard MOA average between the 3. A new Overlay will take all 3groups and combine them with a data taking each impact and averaging them rather than taking the average of each 3 shot group and averaging them. This first target will be a proof of concept and subsequent target will be built off of it. Other targets and training drills we be available as well, some from known names in the Precision shooting community! (Second image is a free printable target online; I’ll be making a BX specific with open space for the aggregate image and for hand written data).

So there you have it…”shoot holes” in the concept and give any feedback we can make the best solution for the shooting community!

References:

Precision & Group Size – Statistics for Shooters Part 3

This article is going to dive into the most effective ways to quantify the precision of a rifle and...

precisionrifleblog.com

https://www.bealeinnovations.com/stats-3shotgroup.pdf

 

[Stuey]

I am one who was a little upset by having to pay for the extra options when I originally purchased the app, but I understand that you have to make money for your work and I love the app and what it does. Keep up the good work you are doing on the Ballistics-X app.

 

[Nik H]

I love the app and have no specific requests. I am sure any new features will be value-add.

 

[ballisticxapp]

I am one who was a little upset by having to pay for the extra options when I originally purchased the app, but I understand that you have to make money for your work and I love the app and what it does. Keep up the good work you are doing on the Ballistics-X app.

Completely understood. Once we get this update up, reach out to me and I will give you a free year of the Toolkit with all the new features! This was never out intent and we will continue improvements making the Toolkit a clear value!

 

[Holliday]

I have been using this app for quite a long time and JUST LOVE it. Watching it grow and take shape has been a pleasure.

I saw you complaining about Hornady on FB. I would not have even known about their app had you not mentioned it. I love your app and have no reason to look elsewhere. Question: Did you invent “mean radius” as applied in grouping analysis?

The only real complaint I had was I paid the 9.99 for the advance tools but there were no definitions for the advanced tool’s nomenclature and how it was being applied. So most of it was useless to me. I did ask about this on FB and you said it was forthcoming. I may have missed it, if you indeed followed through.

The subscription model has frustrated folks. The add up…..BUT your app with it’s constant improvements at least makes a good case for it.

Screw Hornady. Don’t worry about what they do and certainly don’t advertise for them. Just focus on being great at what you do and “they will come”.

Looking forward to what you have in store next.

Happy New Year

 

[Raufoss]

Look yearly payment is just a bad solution.

I want a one time payment that is not prohibitively high and be down with that crap and own the apps and all the tools.

I already fucking pay adobe, photoshop and everything else on a monthly basics and I can’t stand their business model.

Don’t be another one like that.

 

[ballisticxapp]

I have been using this app for quite a long time and JUST LOVE it. Watching it grow and take shape has been a pleasure.

I saw you complaining about Hornady on FB. I would not have even known about their app had you not mentioned it. I love your app and have no reason to look elsewhere. Question: Did you invent “mean radius” as applied in grouping analysis?

The only real complaint I had was I paid the 9.99 for the advance tools but there were no definitions for the advanced tool’s nomenclature and how it was being applied. So most of it was useless to me. I did ask about this on FB and you said it was forthcoming. I may have missed it, if you indeed followed through.

The subscription model has frustrated folks. The add up…..BUT your app with it’s constant improvements at least makes a good case for it.

Screw Hornady. Don’t worry about what they do and certainly don’t advertise for them. Just focus on being great at what you do and “they will come”.

Looking forward to what you have in store next.

Happy New Year

Mean Radius as applied to Shot Group existed before BX. On Target, the PC program was doing a lot of this before I made a solution for devices. In fact, I reached out to On Target and asked them if they had plans to do a version for devices and they told me know and actually gave me their blessing to do it myself. That said, I have never used their program and have intentionally done so as a means to integrate as much originality as possible to the solutions in BX.

Please reach out after this update and I will set you up with a free year of the new Toolkit!

 

[ballisticxapp]

Look yearly payment is just a bad solution.

I want a one time payment that is not prohibitively high and be down with that crap and own the apps and all the tools.

I already fucking pay adobe, photoshop and everything else on a monthly basics and I can’t stand their business model.

Don’t be another one like that.

It is only for the Advanced Toolkit. You get full function of standard App for life. Zero features have been removed from base App. For those who purchased base App early on, they have gotten years of trouble free use and the features have nearly doubled. The goal is having a sustainable business model. Otherwise you pay a one time fee and perhaps the App is defunct after a few years. I am open to alternative suggestions, though I am almost certain I am unwilling to integrate ads and popups.

 

[ballisticxapp]

I am one who was a little upset by having to pay for the extra options when I originally purchased the app, but I understand that you have to make money for your work and I love the app and what it does. Keep up the good work you are doing on the Ballistics-X app.

Reach out after this update comes out and I will take care of you!

 

[Gemsbok]

Maybe keep the small upgrades and bug fixes free with original purchase and charge for significant upgrades or new tools.

Or set up two payment models…low price subscription and higher priced purchase.

I’ve been super pleased with the basic product and wish I could shoot enough to justify buying the toolkit.

 

[ballisticxapp]

Maybe keep the small upgrades and bug fixes free with original purchase and charge for significant upgrades or new tools.

Or set up two payment models…low price subscription and higher priced purchase.

I’ve been super pleased with the basic product and wish I could shoot enough to justify buying the toolkit.

That is exactly the model as it is now except that the Toolkit needs additional features!

 

[Yondering]

The proposed upgrades sound great- as long as the app maintains its current functionality too.

I’m not on the ‘hide much currently but got a notification and figured this was worth stopping in for. This app is one of my top 3 best shooting apps and I get a lot of use out of it any time I’m doing load development.

I see a lot of complaints about paying for features, but come on guys, think of all the other frivolous things we spend a lot more money on in the gun world- for the usefulness and time saved by this app (does anyone really want to calculate mean radius for each target manually?) I think $10 or even $20 a year for this is nothing and I’m happy to pay it. Perspective is important.

One small suggestion for the developer if you want it - maybe add a spot to record environmentals? Temp is easy enough to estimate and input by hand, and these phones have built in barometers and GPS if you want to give it an option to record density altitude.

My 2 cents.

 

[ballisticxapp]

The proposed upgrades sound great- as long as the app maintains its current functionality too.

I’m not on the ‘hide much currently but got a notification and figured this was worth stopping in for. This app is one of my top 3 best shooting apps and I get a lot of use out of it any time I’m doing load development.

I see a lot of complaints about paying for features, but come on guys, think of all the other frivolous things we spend a lot more money on in the gun world- for the usefulness and time saved by this app (does anyone really want to calculate mean radius for each target manually?) I think $10 or even $20 a year for this is nothing and I’m happy to pay it. Perspective is important.

One small suggestion for the developer if you want it - maybe add a spot to record environmentals? Temp is easy enough to estimate and input by hand, and these phones have built in barometers and GPS if you want to give it an option to record density altitude.

My 2 cents.

More comprehensive data on conditions when shooting is on the list!

 

[memilanuk]

My biggest gripe was there was quite a while where I'd paid for the Advanced Toolkit, but was unable to access the features. That got resolved - eventually.

More/better note taking would be welcome, but the 'killer' feature I'd like to see is the ability to create aggregate groups, as mentioned above. I'm not wild about the proposed limit of three 3-shot groups, but I realize that a) it's early days yet and b) there's only so much one can do with an app on a smart phone / touch screen and fat fingers. There's a point where if a person wants more/bigger groups, some things still work better on a PC (or at least laptop) with a bigger screen and a dedicated pointer device.

 

[pyrotechnic]

Currently you can have multiple groups on a single image. Being able to compile those into a single aggregate group would be useful to me.

 

[Raufoss]

It is only for the Advanced Toolkit. You get full function of standard App for life. Zero features have been removed from base App. For those who purchased base App early on, they have gotten years of trouble free use and the features have nearly doubled. The goal is having a sustainable business model. Otherwise you pay a one time fee and perhaps the App is defunct after a few years. I am open to alternative suggestions, though I am almost certain I am unwilling to integrate ads and popups.

I willing to pay for the the advanced tool kit and updates ( unless it a major upgrade) for around 30/40$ unique lifetime paiment.

More than that and I’ll just buy On Target for 34.99.

Your product is not unique and many are willing to use a cheaper product like Hornady or a more complete product like On Target but less flexible because it’s on PC.

I’m paying your 12.99$ per year because I wanted to encourage but I will stop using it after the year is over because it’s too much for what you offer in the advanced tool kit vs On Target

 

[ballisticxapp]

My biggest gripe was there was quite a while where I'd paid for the Advanced Toolkit, but was unable to access the features. That got resolved - eventually.

More/better note taking would be welcome, but the 'killer' feature I'd like to see is the ability to create aggregate groups, as mentioned above. I'm not wild about the proposed limit of three 3-shot groups, but I realize that a) it's early days yet and b) there's only so much one can do with an app on a smart phone / touch screen and fat fingers. There's a point where if a person wants more/bigger groups, some things still work better on a PC (or at least laptop) with a bigger screen and a dedicated pointer device.

Completely understood. I will be expanding it and to not restrict the user. The more comprehensive it gets, the more difficult it is to make it operate cleanly and intuitively. It is completely possible to make groups from multiple targets be toggled on or off to be combined on overlay representation as a whole. Ive just got to get the UI to manage it simply!

 

[ballisticxapp]

I willing to pay for the the advanced tool kit and updates ( unless it a major upgrade) for around 30/40$ unique lifetime paiment.

More than that and I’ll just buy On Target for 34.99.

Your product is not unique and many are willing to use a cheaper product like Hornady or a more complete product like On Target but less flexible because it’s on PC.

I’m paying your 12.99$ per year because I wanted to encourage but I will stop using it after the year is over because it’s too much for what you offer in the advanced tool kit vs On Target

Absolutely. I will make a "Lifetime" option as well this go around and users that have paid for Toolkit can message me and I will offset the difference of money spent on the Yearly. I am here for the long haul, but my aim was never to be the "Cheapest".

 

[carbonbased]

First up is Auto-Targets. Lots of people have requested Auto Impact marking but that’s actually the last thing on the list for Automation.

From the start of the App, I’ve wanted to add metrics and accountability to shooting. My frustration with cherry picked groups and “.5 MOA all day if I do my part” has never subsided.

I have tried (and bought/paid for) many of these group analysis apps. Some over $20…I think I even splurged $50 once (and was disappointed).

So, take this in the spirit of constructive feedback: I think you should be placing your personal desires (second quote) in the backseat and instead prioritizing user needs (the first quote).

Satisfying user needs will allow you to sneak in your own goals much more successfully. Note that I do wholeheartedly agree with the last sentence in your second quote!

I’ve used your app in the past and went back to the lowly SubMOA. This even though the latter is an acquired taste, has poor instructions, contains ads, and is apparently created by some rando Asian-based dev.

My reasons for using SubMOA were that, at the time, Ballistic X app didn’t allow multiple bulls to be measured on a target (with adjacent labels), and also thus it didn’t average all the bulls into one MOA readout.

I do see you’ve now at least allowed multiple bulls+labels on a target, but it’s an exercise in frustration. I could explain why, but this post is long enough as is.

Also, your labels are comically large, taking up way too much space on a target that has multiple bulls. No need for a space-eating giant logo on each label, and please left-justify the label text for ease of reading.

Notes:

• I print my own targets on 8.5x11” for cost and ease of printing
• The targets have multiple bulls on them to make my time at the range efficient, so if you provide targets to print, I’d want at least eight bulls on them (center mainly is dead space and a place to put digital labels). So, 4 bulls on each the left and right target’s edge (see attached pic). The middle two columns of bulls on my targets are typically used for when I don’t measure the groups there (sighters, etc).
• ★★★★ I really want an app that reduces my effort to mark bullet holes. Manually selecting POA and 1” reference isn’t a big deal.
• SubMOA allows multiple groups on a target image, and averages all groups on a target. Your current app doesn’t seem to allow this.
• Metrics over time is interesting, but not super useful to the average shooter who mainly wants to know how the barrel/ammo/himself is shooting right now in the current conditions. IMHO. It’s great to allow historical records (SubMOA allows this in a janky way), but it’s not immediately essential.
• Your current app seems to focus hard on your idea of a “score”. Instead of forcing user to figure out how you’d like them to think about their groups, I suggest you stick to MOA, and allow them to elevate your score idea if they like it.

I could give you much more detail. Feel free to reach out via DM if you want.

Here’s a quick evaluation between your app, SubMOA, and Hornady’s attempt.

Here is Hornady’a app. I don’t think one can even save the target to the photo roll, so I took a darn screenshot!

Very subpar. Doesn’t appear to allow multiple bulls/labels per target, and I can’t even find a simple MOA readout for my upper left three shots (I normally shoot at least 5).

Here’s a SubMOA version of the same target.

SubMOA does allow for truncated yellow labels too, like this:

I can include what I want on the label (much like your app allows). SubMOA calculated the .79 MOA avg across all groups but I didn’t have room for the requisite white label (shown on the previous target).

Below is your app’s saved pic. Even if one doesn’t include all of the label info I selected, you can see that the margins, BX logo, and center-justification are problems here. The app also forced me to crop my target to fit, which is quite irritating.

Again, feel free to reach out. I have been waiting for someone to make a better version of SubMOA, and it looks like you may be on the right path.

 

[ballisticxapp]

I have tried (and bought/paid for) many of these group analysis apps. Some over $20…I think I even splurged $50 once (and was disappointed).

So, take this in the spirit of constructive feedback: I think you should be placing your personal desires (second quote) in the backseat and instead prioritizing user needs (the first quote).

Satisfying user needs will allow you to sneak in your own goals much more successfully. Note that I do wholeheartedly agree with the last sentence in your second quote!

I’ve used your app in the past and went back to the lowly SubMOA. This even though the latter is an acquired taste, has poor instructions, contains ads, and is apparently created by some rando Asian-based dev.

My reasons for using SubMOA were that, at the time, Ballistic X app didn’t allow multiple bulls to be measured on a target (with adjacent labels), and also thus it didn’t average all the bulls into one MOA readout.

I do see you’ve now at least allowed multiple bulls+labels on a target, but it’s an exercise in frustration. I could explain why, but this post is long enough as is.

Also, your labels are comically large, taking up way too much space on a target that has multiple bulls. No need for a space-eating giant logo on each label, and please left-justify the label text for ease of reading.

Notes:

• I print my own targets on 8.5x11” for cost and ease of printing
• The targets have multiple bulls on them to make my time at the range efficient, so if you provide targets to print, I’d want at least eight bulls on them (center mainly is dead space and a place to put digital labels). So, 4 bulls on each the left and right target’s edge (see attached pic). The middle two columns of bulls on my targets are typically used for when I don’t measure the groups there (sighters, etc).
• ★★★★ I really want an app that reduces my effort to mark bullet holes. Manually selecting POA and 1” reference isn’t a big deal.
• SubMOA allows multiple groups on a target image, and averages all groups on a target. Your current app doesn’t seem to allow this.
• Metrics over time is interesting, but not super useful to the average shooter who mainly wants to know how the barrel/ammo/himself is shooting right now in the current conditions. IMHO. It’s great to allow historical records (SubMOA allows this in a janky way), but it’s not immediately essential.
• Your current app seems to focus hard on your idea of a “score”. Instead of forcing user to figure out how you’d like them to think about their groups, I suggest you stick to MOA, and allow them to elevate your score idea if they like it.

I could give you much more detail. Feel free to reach out via DM if you want.

Here’s a quick evaluation between your app, SubMOA, and Hornady’s attempt.

Here is Hornady’a app. I don’t think one can even save the target to the photo roll, so I took a darn screenshot!
View attachment 8583717
Very subpar. Doesn’t appear to allow multiple bulls/labels per target, and I can’t even find a simple MOA readout for my upper left three shots (I normally shoot at least 5).

Here’s a SubMOA version of the same target.
View attachment 8583720

SubMOA does allow for truncated yellow labels too, like this:
View attachment 8583721
I can include what I want on the label (much like your app allows). SubMOA calculated the .79 MOA avg across all groups but I didn’t have room for the requisite white label (shown on the previous target).

Below is your app’s saved pic. Even if one doesn’t include all of the label info I selected, you can see that the margins, BX logo, and center-justification are problems here. The app also forced me to crop my target to fit, which is quite irritating.
View attachment 8583725

Again, feel free to reach out. I have been waiting for someone to make a better version of SubMOA, and it looks like you may be on the right path.

I understand your grievances completely and I will try to address them. Yes, the scoring system is essentially a Beta test of something else in the works and its scored arbitrarily by participation. I am indifferent about it but I know it needs work to be useful.

The new targets I have mentioned are going to solve many of your complaints including the overlay size issue as I plan to populate a designated area on the target for the data.

BX already has history function, but its a bit clunky. This is also being addressed.

MultiGroup processing will be addressed as well.

Message me later once I share the Beta. All that you have stated are things we are not thrilled about as well!

 

[carbonbased]

I understand your grievances completely and I will try to address them. Yes, the scoring system is essentially a Beta test of something else in the works and its scored arbitrarily by participation. I am indifferent about it but I know it needs work to be useful.

The new targets I have mentioned are going to solve many of your complaints including the overlay size issue as I plan to populate a designated area on the target for the data.

BX already has history function, but its a bit clunky. This is also being addressed.

MultiGroup processing will be addressed as well.

Message me later once I share the Beta. All that you have stated are things we are not thrilled about as well!

Your responses are encouraging!

It is essential, to me anyway, to absolutely minimize the finger “clicks” and steps to get to the final target with labels. But you probably already agree.

But more broadly speaking, it will probably pay off in spades to extensively user-test the app pre-release. This the key thing most corps ignore, as they are focused on internal metrics (like artificial deadlines driven by exec quarterly or yearly bonuses) vs. actual researched user goals.

I don’t pretend to know all of the users for an app like BX, or even know who the main users are. At this point, before research, I can only tell you what I like.

I would be interested in beta-testing and providing feedback, if you would have me.

 

[FuhQ]

I have tried (and bought/paid for) many of these group analysis apps. Some over $20…I think I even splurged $50 once (and was disappointed).

So, take this in the spirit of constructive feedback: I think you should be placing your personal desires (second quote) in the backseat and instead prioritizing user needs (the first quote).

Satisfying user needs will allow you to sneak in your own goals much more successfully. Note that I do wholeheartedly agree with the last sentence in your second quote!

I’ve used your app in the past and went back to the lowly SubMOA. This even though the latter is an acquired taste, has poor instructions, contains ads, and is apparently created by some rando Asian-based dev.

My reasons for using SubMOA were that, at the time, Ballistic X app didn’t allow multiple bulls to be measured on a target (with adjacent labels), and also thus it didn’t average all the bulls into one MOA readout.

I do see you’ve now at least allowed multiple bulls+labels on a target, but it’s an exercise in frustration. I could explain why, but this post is long enough as is.

Also, your labels are comically large, taking up way too much space on a target that has multiple bulls. No need for a space-eating giant logo on each label, and please left-justify the label text for ease of reading.

Notes:

• I print my own targets on 8.5x11” for cost and ease of printing
• The targets have multiple bulls on them to make my time at the range efficient, so if you provide targets to print, I’d want at least eight bulls on them (center mainly is dead space and a place to put digital labels). So, 4 bulls on each the left and right target’s edge (see attached pic). The middle two columns of bulls on my targets are typically used for when I don’t measure the groups there (sighters, etc).
• ★★★★ I really want an app that reduces my effort to mark bullet holes. Manually selecting POA and 1” reference isn’t a big deal.
• SubMOA allows multiple groups on a target image, and averages all groups on a target. Your current app doesn’t seem to allow this.
• Metrics over time is interesting, but not super useful to the average shooter who mainly wants to know how the barrel/ammo/himself is shooting right now in the current conditions. IMHO. It’s great to allow historical records (SubMOA allows this in a janky way), but it’s not immediately essential.
• Your current app seems to focus hard on your idea of a “score”. Instead of forcing user to figure out how you’d like them to think about their groups, I suggest you stick to MOA, and allow them to elevate your score idea if they like it.

I could give you much more detail. Feel free to reach out via DM if you want.

Here’s a quick evaluation between your app, SubMOA, and Hornady’s attempt.

Here is Hornady’a app. I don’t think one can even save the target to the photo roll, so I took a darn screenshot!
View attachment 8583717
Very subpar. Doesn’t appear to allow multiple bulls/labels per target, and I can’t even find a simple MOA readout for my upper left three shots (I normally shoot at least 5).

Here’s a SubMOA version of the same target.
View attachment 8583720

SubMOA does allow for truncated yellow labels too, like this:
View attachment 8583721
I can include what I want on the label (much like your app allows). SubMOA calculated the .79 MOA avg across all groups but I didn’t have room for the requisite white label (shown on the previous target).

Below is your app’s saved pic. Even if one doesn’t include all of the label info I selected, you can see that the margins, BX logo, and center-justification are problems here. The app also forced me to crop my target to fit, which is quite irritating.
View attachment 8583725

Again, feel free to reach out. I have been waiting for someone to make a better version of SubMOA, and it looks like you may be on the right path.

 

[Holliday]

Mean Radius as applied to Shot Group existed before BX. On Target, the PC program was doing a lot of this before I made a solution for devices. In fact, I reached out to On Target and asked them if they had plans to do a version for devices and they told me know and actually gave me their blessing to do it myself. That said, I have never used their program and have intentionally done so as a means to integrate as much originality as possible to the solutions in BX.

Please reach out after this update and I will set you up with a free year of the new Toolkit!

I did think of one request. It would be nice if setting scale measure in the beginning was a one step process. Like a simple line that one would two-finger zoom to fit the index point, then confirm.

Thanks for the offer on the free year but it is not necessary. I am happy to pay for they advanced features and support you as a fellow entrepreneur.