PRS Talk Barrel contour. How much does it really matter.

[Rexwagon]

I am new to precision rifle shooting. I am competing in the border wars rifle series. I have one match under my belt. I built a gun off a savage action in an XLR chassis with a 26 inch medium Palma barrel. Rifle shoots my hand loads around .4 moa groups at 2915fps with Berger 135 classic hunters.

My dilemma is I feel more comfortable behind my Bergara HMR. Which has a stock similar to a McMillan a5. So long story I will probably build another rifle with a similar stock. But for the rest of the season I am trying to decide if I should run my bergara in my matches. Yesterday I took both guns out to distance to practice. I had trouble connecting on the 10 inch plate at 1010 yards with my competition gun. But with my 2nd shot on the bergara I had an impact. So now it’s really in my head. Most of my misses were just barely off the plate and we had high wind gusts but I still feel as those I can shoot the bergara more comfortably. The barrel contour is a #5. So a little smaller than a light Palma.
With 10 shots in 90 seconds the barrel does get warm but it doesn’t wonder. What’s everyone’s professional opinion? Will this barrel contour work for me through the season or should I stick with my comp gun.

Thanks in advance.

 

[morganlamprecht]

not an expert on barrel contours, but i would take a rifle i was comfortable behind and had more confidence in vs anything else if i was really tryin to shoot my best

all of my comp rifles have been rem varmint to MTU, so nothing light...but i did have a 28nosler built on a #3 or 4 contour that would shift as it heated up if i shot too quickly...cold bore was always on and it was a hunting rifle so no biggie, but i wouldnt have wanted to shoot a match with it

 

[XLR308]

not an expert on barrel contours, but i would take a rifle i was comfortable behind and had more confidence in vs anything else if i was really tryin to shoot my best

all of my comp rifles have been rem varmint to MTU, so nothing light...but i did have a 28nosler built on a #3 or 4 contour that would shift as it heated up if i shot too quickly...cold bore was always on and it was a hunting rifle so no biggie, but i wouldnt have wanted to shoot a match with it

I totally agree, shoot what you have the most confidence in but would also add to reinforce the above statement that you should shoot a rapid string of fire with the Bergara as accurately as possible.

This would give you a good representation of what the barrel will do when run hard in a COMP and would also add to your confidence in the rifle.

 

[Rexwagon]

Thanks for the replies. I have shot some strings with it in the past and didn’t notice impact moving. But I will try it out again if I get time tonight. The next match is Sunday so I have work to do. Haha

 

[Rob01]

You are learning what you like and you like a more standard style stock over a chassis. Chassis are all the rave now as they give a lot of features but if it's not what you like then it means nothing. I don't care for them and use Manners stocks with mini chassis systems so I get the best of both worlds. I am not a fan of AR grips on bolt guns and don;t like the feel at all. Seems like you don't care for the chassis either. Sell it and replace it on your match rifle. No issue with that. I have swapped many stocks over the years.

As for barrel contour, I have used MTU down to Med Palma and all have worked on match rifles. If you want a lighter set up then the med palma would work well. It's heavy enough not to have any shifts in 10-15 shots in 90 seconds but is lighter and balances well. We had a student in our class this past weekend that had an HMR and he had no issues with shift as the rifle heated up so if you shoot the HMR better then I would run it.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I'm not that familiar with Border Wars, so I'm not certain what the requirements might be.

I'm going to take a leap of intuition and assume that you are carrying, moving, and shooting. Also that some of the shots will be at extended distances, and that larger volumes of fire, and/or long rapid fire strings are less common.

My strategy would be to prioritize first in favor of convenient carry, and then in favor of crisp accuracy.

My first choice would not be for a long, heavy barrel. I would prefer a rifle that is configured for hunting over one that is configured for out and out range accuracy. A shorter barrel is proportionately stiffer, and can be less bulky for a similar degree of accuracy. The shorter barrel can be compensated for in the chambering.

The rifle I had that would be my choice is not a competition gun. It was an M70 .30-'06 Featherweight. That may sound odd, but I bought it the day before one of the ANJRPC Sniper matches, shot well with it that following day, and went on to win a 4th place in the that year's (1997) State finals with it. To this day it continues to win hunter rifle matches and harvest several deer a year, only now it's in my Son-in-Law's hands, the best place for it.

So my answer is that.

One thing about the heavy barrels is that folks count on them to be heat sinks; to absorb the heat from sustained strings of fire, and to retain accuracy when hotter. Well that hot accuracy retention is often a crapshoot, since internal barrel stresses can upset that apple cart in a big way. And then, as much longer as it takes to heat up that heavy barrel, in turn, it also takes that much longer to cool down, and that time may not be so easy to come by between stages. So in a rapid succession of stages, each next stage might very well be beginning with a progressively hotter barrel. Not ideal.

The hunter rifle has the slimmer contour because most hunters don't engage in a flurry of rapid fire, and the barrel seldom gets warm enough to challenge its accuracy. The thinner, maybe shorter barrel (my M70 was 22") can still ring out accurate shots as long as they are not done in rapid succession, and over a longer string. Meanwhile, although it will heat faster, it will also cool down faster. And then, that very same barrel stress coin may be better in your favor on its flip side. That was clearly the case with my M70. It's a luck of thee draw thing, but if you look around enough and try out rifles enough, you can find that "golden goose" gun. I just got lucky on the first try, and it took me quite some time to realize just how lucky.

So sometimes, common wisdom may not cover all those important bases after all.

Now it may turn out that your #5 contour is just the ticket.

Greg

 

[Rexwagon]

Thanks for the in-depth replies. I was able to get out and shoot yesterday. I fired off 10 rounds as quickly as I could at 100 yard target and I was able to keep it sub moa. I moved it out to 300 yards and it stayed poking holes accurately. It passed the test. So I will use this for the rest of the season. I swapped over my razor AMG scope to the bergara. I took the Tango6 off and it’s sitting on my bench. It’s a SFP Tango6 so won’t work to well for competition use for me so it will probably be up for sale soon.

As for my competition rifle in a chassis I will probably part it out or sell it and start a new build. I put it together on a savage action but I did not do enough research prior and bought the bottom bolt release savage. This limits my options on a lot of things. Stocks is one and triggers is a huge one. The accutrigger is ok but I can definitely tell it’s not the best and there is only 2 options for replacements for this style of action. Both come from good companies but are not impressive. So I will just chalk it up as a learning experience and move on. Next one will be built using a 700 blueprint. If I ever do a savage in the future it will be a side or top bolt release action for sure.

I think I really do prefer the closer to original style stock like Rob01 said. Most of the competitors around here all shoot chassis but there are a few manners and such around so I will have to see if I can check someone’s out.

But I really do appreciate the insight and everyone’s input. Thanks.

 

[Rexwagon]

Great point h3dgehawk.

When I’m just target shooting I feel the barrel. If I can keep my wrist on it, it’s not too hot. Probably not scientific. Haha

At our 100 yard in door range I have a fan that blows on the barrel so I can regulate temperature better. Works well.

 

[Rob01]

It's a point as you don't always have the option of slow shooting or letting it cool down if using the rifle for matches. Even then you may only shorten it slightly.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

H3dgeHawk; Yes, entirely agree.

I think that using a lighter weight barrel is like making a bet that the cadences and volumes of fire are going to be reasonable toward bore preservation, but that was not the case when I was firing NRA N/M across the course, and that has been, right or wrong, the yardstick against which I base my judgements. It is my shooting origin, along with Military experience using the M14.

I think against the grain sometimes, especially when I believe that trends may be going against some of my own views on practical considerations. I feel that sniper and competitive technology has gravitated more toward a stationary employment mentality, and that this has led their equipment to bulk up and get heavier. Now that's a genuine advantage under those stationary employments, but for a scoot and shoot mentality, something lighter and more compact has true advantage.

In some ways, this parallels the differences between Western and Soviet Sniper employment philosophies, and is reflected in the directions their sniper equipment development has gone.

Both approaches have merit overall, and the differences tend toward favoring mobility vs calculating precision, solo vs widespread employment.

Ya pays yer money and ya makes yer choice...

Greg

 

[Rob01]

This isn't really a sniper discussion but a discussion on PRS style shooting. You don't need a super heavy barrel but something with a decent amount of material like a Rem Varmint or Med Palma works fine. No need to go MTU but it's all personal preference.

 

[kthomas]

Weight is only your friend in this game. We are not hunting on a mountain side for 3 days straight chasing Dall sheep, nor are we treking through some jungles in Borneo for weeks on end with a sniper rifle.

Weight helps with recoil reduction and heavier barrels generally balance out our PRS rigs better.

I ran a Marksman contour 26" barrel in a McM A5 stock on my match rifle for a while, but I prefer heavier contours. I wouldn't run a Marksman contour barrel again on a match rifle.

At a minimum, I would run a 24-26" M24 or Heavy Palma rifle. My 6.5 creedmoor is a braked 24" MTU contour barrel, and my 6BR variant is a 28" unbraked heavy varmint contour barrel.

Heavy Palma, M24/M40, MTU or even Heavy Varmint contours is what I would recommend. If you look at what the top PRS/NRL shooters are using, they are using heavy contours.

 

[BCX]

I thought the Marskman was between a med palma and a heavy palma?

 

[Rexwagon]

Do you ever have to shoot that MTU offhand? I had a match a few weeks ago and had to shoot offhand. Struggled holding that medium Palma up.

 

[Rob01]

My first Creedmoor was a 28" MTU. Yeah it was tough but doable. I don't want to do it anymore though lol

 

[BCX]

I have a 26 inch MTU i think its way to heavy in my setup for offhand shooting. I have 2 Marksman on order which should be a lot lighter. My #6 Gap was almost a perfect weight and balance in a manners stock..

 

[kthomas]

I thought the Marskman was between a med palma and a heavy palma?

It is.

 

[kthomas]

Do you ever have to shoot that MTU offhand? I had a match a few weeks ago and had to shoot offhand. Struggled holding that medium Palma up.

The odd match there will be a stage that will require you to shoot off hand. The last match I shot at Rifles Only, last year's SHC, had a stage where you shot off hand in the kneeling position from your support side.

It's not fun with a heavy rifle. However, we build our rifles to excel at the ~95% of stages we see/type of shooting we do. Not the 5% that we shot the odd time.

You can build a rifle to excel at offhand type shots, but it won't excel in the majority of other stages you will shoot. There will always be compromises. For me, I build my rifles to excel at the ~95% of the shots it's going to take.

 

[Rob01]

Never felt any issues shooting the med palma compared to the MTU or M24/40s I have shot in the past. I was wondering about it as well when I swirched as it was a concern and was pleasently surprised that with the brake the recoil was very similar and I satyed on target the same with both. Actually discussing the majority of stages, the majority have movement as opposed to laying prone and with the movement getting in and out of positions it's actually easier and faster with the lighter rifle.

Having brakes on rifles takes away the small advantage of extra weight IMHO.

 

[Rexwagon]

Shot in a competition with it on Sunday. Didn’t have any issues. Was able to extended my longest hit at 1025 yards. Had 4 in a row with the last 4 in my magazine. So I will use the HMR for the rest of the season.

 

[morganlamprecht]

thats good stuff...have a blast