Battle of the Mk 12

[LongSchott]

Ive been looking at getting a Mk 12 and am between the BCM Mk 12 Mod 5 and PRI Mk 12 Mod H

My question is does anyone have any experience with these and what are their thoughts? What sort of accuracy and range do you guys get out of yours.

im looking for a precision rifle out to 6-700m I plan on using black hills 77gr OTM but am open to suggestions from the community. is there a lasrge difference in the accuracy / barrel life for the two rifles? Are there any others you would suggest looking into to?

Thank you all for your time!

 

[bigjake83]

The MK12's are nothing more than a style of rifle if accuracy is your main concern there are many other routes you can take for a quality build.

Just give us some basic parameters such as desired barrel length, weight and budget and Im sure we could get you going in the right direction.

 

[_Windrider_]

Ive been looking at getting a Mk 12 and am between the BCM Mk 12 Mod 5 and PRI Mk 12 Mod H

My question is does anyone have any experience with these and what are their thoughts? What sort of accuracy and range do you guys get out of yours.

im looking for a precision rifle out to 6-700m I plan on using black hills 77gr OTM but am open to suggestions from the community. is there a lasrge difference in the accuracy / barrel life for the two rifles? Are there any others you would suggest looking into to?

Thank you all for your time!

if you are looking for as clone correct as possible, the PRI is pretty close. its a 556 AR, it does its job. bridges that gap between fighting rifle and long distance support. i dont think you can go wrong with either, i refer the PRI though.

 

[nn8734]

Regardless of your rifle selection, black hills 77g OTM will treat you right.

 

[LongSchott]

I prefer a military style rifle which is why I was looking at the mk 12. I will be using an ACOG on it and am open to a 18in barrel but am also interested in the 16. No shorter for me since I would plan on doing an SBR later on.

The BCM seems to be more expensive than the PRI, do I get anything out of the extra cost or is it a brand name thing?

 

[nn8734]

I prefer a military style rifle which is why I was looking at the mk 12. I will be using an ACOG on it and am open to a 18in barrel but am also interested in the 16. No shorter for me since I would plan on doing an SBR later on.

The BCM seems to be more expensive than the PRI, do I get anything out of the extra cost or is it a brand name thing?

Id go PRI mod H. The BCM is basically a Mod-0 inspired upper. Plus you aren’t giving up much in velocity in exchange for having a handier rifle. I used to have a mod 1 and converted it to the Mod H and prefer it over the 18” variants.

Can we assume you currently have or will be acquiring the AEM5?

 

[LongSchott]

Id go PRI mod H. The BCM is basically a Mod-0 inspired upper. Plus you aren’t giving up much in velocity in exchange for having a handier rifle. I used to have a mod 1 and converted it to the Mod H and prefer it over the 18” variants.

Can we assume you currently have or will be acquiring the AEM5?

I dont currently have one but am planning on getting it at some point. I just want to get the rifle first to replace my current windham that just isn't doing it for me.
I definitely prefer a handier rifle though.

 

[nn8734]

I dont currently have one but am planning on getting it at some point. I just want to get the rifle first to replace my current windham that just isn't doing it for me.
I definitely prefer a handier rifle though.

Honestly, I’d prioritize the can purchase sooner rather than later, given the current political uncertainty. It’s an awesome suppressor, can shoot all day long with no hearing protection and POI shift vs unsuppressed is virtually non existent.

 

[WillHugh]

I prefer a military style rifle which is why I was looking at the mk 12. I will be using an ACOG on it and am open to a 18in barrel but am also interested in the 16. No shorter for me since I would plan on doing an SBR later on.

The BCM seems to be more expensive than the PRI, do I get anything out of the extra cost or is it a brand name thing?

Are you into the mk12 specifically, or just looking for a high quality precision oriented rifle? A mk12 clone, while very cool in it's own right, will cost you a big premium over other ar uppers, while not necessarily performing better (it's an older design and some of the parts are very expensive). The PRI price is getting into the territory of a Knights Armament upper, which has many tangible benefits over over a standard ar upper, not just a particular look.

 

[Stackon212]

I have a Mod H. From my experience, expect a really heavy gun. Accuracy will be up to which barrel you use. I would sacrifice not being clone correct and use a BCM upper (instead of Colt) for guarantee good accuracy. Get The AEM5 can first while you decide how to go about putting your Mk12 together.

Personally, I feel that MOD H is the best. It gives you the most options as far as modification of the original clone configuration.

 

[shlouf]

The Douglas barrels in the factory PRI guns/uppers are very accurate. I'd stick with PRI over BCM just because of their history with the mk12.

For precision out to 6-700m ditch the acog and be on the lookout for a 3.5-10 mk4. If you're going mk12(ish), an acog on top doesn't look right.

Like already stated, if you are for sure going to end up with a mk12, get the AEM5 ordered ASAP. You wont regret it.

 

[MPDS13]

I would definitely agree with the advice about the AEM5. If you are wanting to run an AEM5, then go ahead and order one and start the paperwork. The upper will come. If you are wanting clone correct you can always have one custom built to be exactly correct. But, If you are just wanting a similar variant with an accurate barrel, then PRI or BCM will work. You may want to look at the Daniel Defense MK12 as well. Its not a milspec version. But, very reliable and very accurate at a good price.

 

[LongSchott]

Are you into the mk12 specifically, or just looking for a high quality precision oriented rifle? A mk12 clone, while very cool in it's own right, will cost you a big premium over other ar uppers, while not necessarily performing better (it's an older design and some of the parts are very expensive). The PRI price is getting into the territory of a Knights Armament upper, which has many tangible benefits over over a standard ar upper, not just a particular look.

I am more specifically into the mk 12. I understand other things out there can perform at the same level but nostalgia pulls me to the old GWOT guns. I personally have only gone out to 400 with an M4 and ACOG but I plan on making this rifle a near virtual copy that I can take with out to 6 or 7.

I love knights armament but when I buy one of their rifles it will be an SR-25 to customize and copy the M110.

I'm a sucker for military guns haha

 

[LongSchott]

The Douglas barrels in the factory PRI guns/uppers are very accurate. I'd stick with PRI over BCM just because of their history with the mk12.

For precision out to 6-700m ditch the acog and be on the lookout for a 3.5-10 mk4. If you're going mk12(ish), an acog on top doesn't look right.

Like already stated, if you are for sure going to end up with a mk12, get the AEM5 ordered ASAP. You wont regret it.

View attachment 7404504

Beautiful rifle! I only would use an ACOG because that's what I used on my M4 so I know it a little better. But you are absolutely right it doesn't look proper without the right optic. Ill have to see if I can pick one up at a local gun show or order one online.

 

[longshot2000]

The most important part of the Mk12 is the barrel.

We are getting ready to release Mk12 riles in depolyment kits. We also resell the PRI uppers for Mod0 and ModH. Those are solid rifles / uppers. Some of the other rilfes have barrels that will not support an Allen Engineering AEM-5. We use Craddock and Compass Lake to make barrels for us, and use Douglas, Criterion and Bergara blanks. All great choices. Douglas is the clone-correct barrel, and a smidge in quality above the others, but at least there is a price point for everyone.

We also have a barrel / brake kit for the barrels here: https://charliescustomclones.com/mk12-spr-18-barrel-kit-for-mod-0-and-mod-1-rifles/

 

[nn8734]

Beautiful rifle! I only would use an ACOG because that's what I used on my M4 so I know it a little better. But you are absolutely right it doesn't look proper without the right optic. Ill have to see if I can pick one up at a local gun show or order one online.

I had the Mk4 mrt 2.5-8x36 and hated it. Eye box was tiny, mirage was out of control beyond 6x and glass was unremarkable compared to even the 3.5-10x40. That said, Leupold makes some great scopes these days for SPR / DM type rifles. The Mk5 and Mk6 3-18x44 come to mind. I also suspect the ACOG, which is fine for a fighting carbine like the M4 would hold you back on the Mod H.

Here’s mine with the 3-18x44 for reference. I’d go with the lower profile elevation turret though instead the one on mine.

 

[shlouf]

Charlie's is a good source for the AEM5 as well. They can be hard to find at times, and they gave me a Hide discount when I got mine.

 

[WillHugh]

I am more specifically into the mk 12. I understand other things out there can perform at the same level but nostalgia pulls me to the old GWOT guns. I personally have only gone out to 400 with an M4 and ACOG but I plan on making this rifle a near virtual copy that I can take with out to 6 or 7.

I love knights armament but when I buy one of their rifles it will be an SR-25 to customize and copy the M110.

I'm a sucker for military guns haha

Totally understand! I'm running a near clone upper (used a 16 inch rifle gas barrel with a Surefire supressor) and it's easily my favorite rifle to shoot. Normally I'd say build your own, but with parts availability the way it is right now, grabbing a complete upper might be the way to go.

And as others suggested, get a good magnified optic to to the upper justice - Leupold MK5 3-18 is an awesome choice.

 

[ShotgunDiesel]

I have a PRI upper with the 18” Douglas barrel. I only have about 200 rounds through it shooting mag tech 77gr and hand load 77 Noslers. Couldn’t get any black hills easily. It shoots amazingly well. I have a Burris xtrii 2-10 on it. I know clone guys will cringe. Lol

 

[LongSchott]

Have any of you purchased from PRI? I want to get the complete rifle but not sure if I can just have it shipped to my LGS or if I'm better off finding a shop that has a direct line to PRI. (I've not done this before and am unfamiliar with the process)

 

[ShotgunDiesel]

Have any of you purchased from PRI? I want to get the complete rifle but not sure if I can just have it shipped to my LGS or if I'm better off finding a shop that has a direct line to PRI. (I've not done this before and am unfamiliar with the process)

I bought mine direct from PRI. I only bought an upper though. I’m going to be putting mine up for sale so I can upgrade glass on my comp gun... shoot me a pm if interested

 

[Jsp556]

Centurion Arms offers MK12 rifles as well. Monty can do them with Douglas or Bartlien barrels.

 

[LongSchott]

The most important part of the Mk12 is the barrel.

We are getting ready to release Mk12 riles in depolyment kits. We also resell the PRI uppers for Mod0 and ModH. Those are solid rifles / uppers. Some of the other rilfes have barrels that will not support an Allen Engineering AEM-5. We use Craddock and Compass Lake to make barrels for us, and use Douglas, Criterion and Bergara blanks. All great choices. Douglas is the clone-correct barrel, and a smidge in quality above the others, but at least there is a price point for everyone.

We also have a barrel / brake kit for the barrels here: https://charliescustomclones.com/mk12-spr-18-barrel-kit-for-mod-0-and-mod-1-rifles/

View attachment 7404612

I see you guys have an upper for the mk12 mod H, do you offer sniper hide or military discount? I may have to jump on that.

 

[John Burns]

I prefer a military style rifle which is why I was looking at the mk 12. I will be using an ACOG on it and am open to a 18in barrel but am also interested in the 16. No shorter for me since I would plan on doing an SBR later on.

The BCM seems to be more expensive than the PRI, do I get anything out of the extra cost or is it a brand name thing?

If you are not trying to be clone correct and why suffer the out of date PRI fore end?

The MK 12 was state of the art a decade or so ago and if not building a collector type clone there are lots of better components for a super accurate 16/18 inch AR.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Have any of you purchased from PRI? I want to get the complete rifle but not sure if I can just have it shipped to my LGS or if I'm better off finding a shop that has a direct line to PRI. (I've not done this before and am unfamiliar with the process)

I have a gen 1 mod 0 in tan...full pri gun.

Order from DSGarms. Mil discount from PRI as well.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Well you need to decide what you want first.

For a MOD O,. Get the PRI, add national match G trigger, add aem5, find a TS30A2 and drop in ARMS#22 rings with Simrad cap.

For a mod 1, buy from HCS. The SPR that DD & BCM aren't even close to correct. They are just stealing the name. ADD nightforces 2.5-10x24 in NF rings.

For a Mod H, PRI.

 

[MERICA-LRS]

Cant go wrong with a centurion barrel.

 

[LongSchott]

hey just thought I would update. Im going with the HCS mk12 Mod1 upper and going to ask if he can get the AEM5 added onto the order. I did contact Allen engineering to order direct but never got a response. Still trying to figure out a lower as most are suggesting the nodak m16a1 lower but I haven't made up my mind. Thank you all for the advice and steering me in the right direction!

 

[Nathan11B]

What does everyone recommend for optics on the Mod H? I know, lots of answers and lots of questions. Im really thinking my tax return for the PRI upper. But need a good optic, my initial thought it Razor 1-6.

 

[drewthebrave]

I'm building a Mk12 Mod 0ish rifle and have a VX-R Patrol 3-9x that will be going on it for now. I ultimately want something along the lines of a 2-10x or 3-15x FFP optic -- BUT if I wanted a LPVO, I'd take a good hard look at the new Athlon Ares ETR 1-10x24 (or x28? marketing material isn't matching product listings...). It looks like a "budget" version of the Razor HD G3 1-10x at under $1k.

 

[diderr]

I built up a mod 1 clone. Don’t get me wrong it’s an awesome rifle but if I wasn’t limited to clone parts I could build a lighter and possibly more accurate gun. AEM5 is about as quiet as you can get in a 556 suppressor. If I were to build up the gun again in clone form. I’d probably make a Mod H clone. Seems a little more handy. The mod1 is a pretty chunky gun

 

[LongSchott]

Hey everyone just about finished my build im sharing pictures with what I've got so far. The leupold mk5hd is fantastic but its meant for my LMT and on this rifle its way too big and heavy. Still in the market for clone correct or close to form scope. The lower reciever is brownells although I am on the wait list for a nodak (wanting to make one in .224 Valk) I will be switching out the pistol grip for a more correct one, this is just what I had on hand.

 

[charnicus]

If you’re patient, NF re-releases the 2.5-10x24 from time to time.

 

[diderr]

Looks good!

 

[thehun]

Mk12 is hands down my favorite AR platform of all time...that said I didn't go full 100% clone (I'd love to but that gets super $$$).

Mine is in the Mod 0 config.

My build started with a PSA upper with an FN CHF/CL 18" barrel with rifle length gas system, government profile and 1:8 with wylde chamber...it is an absolute laser respectively with M193...roughly 1.5 MOA - 5 shot group...haven't bothered feeding it match yet...

PSA Link for Reference

From there, I got the right flavor of Mk12 parts like the stock, brake, PRI handguard, PRI front sight, KAC 2-stage trigger (NSN), proper ARMS rear sight, Harris bipod, KAC foregrip and such. I do have a NIB BCG, ambi safety and CH but thats ok...

 

[RTH1800]

I did not read all the replies. I did see a few of your responses. Enough to know you seem confused.
ACOG on Mk 12? No longer a Mk 12.
Accuracy with ACOG? Fair at best.
“I prefer military rifles”
You are mixing clone building with building to your purpose. You need to either get on the bus or get off.
Last I was aware no current rifle is built to true Mk 12 specs.
If you must have Mk 12 watch the BST forum here. They show up at times. They are not cheap.
A half assed clone is going to fail on every count.
If you are planning on punching paper get a heavy, high quality barrel. If you are planning on killing a lot of critters go 18” plus.
If you are “banging steel” I suppose anything would do. Just get bigger steel if you cannot hit it or move closer.
Someone advised you get suppressor first. That is very good advice. I prefer a direct thread can.

 

[LongSchott]

I've got the supp purchased already. And as you can see (in the replies) the rifle is already built.

A lot of things have changed in this build from what I originally talked about.

As of right now the only thing not "clone" correct is the scope, mount, and grip. Everything else is correct to my knowledge. As you can see in my last post and the pictures it is not wearing the ACOG.

The only reason I was thinking of using the ACOG is because that's what I qualify on and thought it would be good to practice with but I've decided to not build a "jack of all trades" and just do a dedicated mk12 mod1. I'll use another AR for practicing on qual courses.

 

[myles.harvey77]

Id go PRI mod H. The BCM is basically a Mod-0 inspired upper. Plus you aren’t giving up much in velocity in exchange for having a handier rifle. I used to have a mod 1 and converted it to the Mod H and prefer it over the 18” variants.

Can we assume you currently have or will be acquiring the AEM5?

I have read multiple accounts by seals 16 verus 18 inches is the Army's preference. Nothing an 18 inch barrel does cannot be achieved with a 16 inch barrel and holdover. The 16 inches in much handier. I just wish I could find a mid length gas system in the 16 inch Socom profile.

 

[sinister]

I just wish I could find a mid length gas system in the 16 inch Socom profile.

Have one made. A good machinist worth his title can do it. The usual names can turn a blank for you, hung over, that will shoot better than a mass-produced barrel most any day.

 

[_Windrider_]

I have read multiple accounts by seals 16 verus 18 inches is the Army's preference. Nothing an 18 inch barrel does cannot be achieved with a 16 inch barrel and holdover. The 16 inches in much handier. I just wish I could find a mid length gas system in the 16 inch Socom profile.

A 16 inch MK 12 is known as a holland rifle or mk 12 mod H and PRI sells them

 

[myles.harvey77]

A 16 inch MK 12 is known as a holland rifle or mk 12 mod H and PRI sells them

Indeed it is.

 

[shlouf]

Indeed it is.

and it's hot

 

[Snaz]

and it's hot

The MOD 0 & H are just damn fine look rifles. Love my 0, but I really want a 12.5" to go with it.

 

[RUTGERS95]

PRI all day and I'd replace the BCM with the Centurion Arms in the equation. Again, PRI all day

 

[RUTGERS95]

I have read multiple accounts by seals 16 verus 18 inches is the Army's preference. Nothing an 18 inch barrel does cannot be achieved with a 16 inch barrel and holdover. The 16 inches in much handier. I just wish I could find a mid length gas system in the 16 inch Socom profile.

originally the Seals wanted the 20" but it was the brass that wanted the 18" is what I have read. Agree the 16" can do all the 18" can do but handier wasn't really what they were after 'initially'

 

[RickyRodney]

@deersniper need another money pit?

 

[RUTGERS95]

I don't think so. WTF would the brass know about building a rifle for Navy Specwar? Some of the SEALS back then were Distinguished Rifleman and knew a 20" national match AR could shoot .5MOA out to 600 yards with match ammo. What they wanted was a match grade 20" barrel. "The Brass" said there is already a 20" barrel in the supply system so use it. So they said they want an 18" barrel which then had to be redesigned and rebid for a new NSN. So testing at NSWC Crane commenced and low and behold match grade 18" barrel by Douglas was selected. Supposedly Delta originally wanted a 16" barrel.

well someone up high said no to the 20" as it was already in the system so Navy procurement couldn't grab the new one and opted for a shorter barrel to get it in the system.

The Mk12 SPR (Special Purpose Rifle) – Small Arms Defense Journal

www.sadefensejournal.com

The Recce Rifle: Builder's Guide to Modern Classic - Everyday Marksman

The original SEAL Recce Rifle was an in-house modification to M4 carbines. The history goes back to the early 1990s. Since they were so individualized, there really wasn't a spec. But we do know that Lilja barrels and optics in the 2.5-10 range were popular. The original intent was to allow...

www.everydaymarksman.co

 

[sinister]

Some of you guys should be writing television screenplays, as some of the stuff being claimed is more imaginative than real life.

 

[FatBoy]

Some of you guys should be writing television screenplays, as some of the stuff being claimed is more imaginative than real life.

I think the internet feeds this. FWIW, I hear the original print still hangs in Genes shop. The stories I bet he has.

It’s amazing how much time and effort we spend agonizing over all the fine details and the end users just pulled them from the rack, put whatever made them happy on them and when and did Gods work.. most guys I know who used them didn’t even know it as the mk12, they call it the SPR. Arms rings got shitcanned and they purchased carded Badger risers and rings, etc.

This is the reason I don’t really get wrapped up in every tiny detail, like barrel brand, front sight elevation wheel, brand of upper or lower.

I’m curious what the OP ended up with, as this is a 2 year old thread.

 

[bigjake83]

Some of you guys should be writing television screenplays, as some of the stuff being claimed is more imaginative than real life.

I bet vital parts of my anatomy to the fact that nobody here even knows who the man was that sent a group of guys to Quantico to teach them how to accurize the M16/M4 which led to the SPR style rifle before Crane commissioned it as the MK12.