I would like to engage a factual, respectful educational discussion of ballistic coefficient (its definition, explanation and on-target manifestation) and accuracy (consistency of target impact, group size, trajectory at distance, etc)
Here are the ground rules:
1. All posts must stay on THIS topic.
2. No ad hominem, insult, personal attack, or profanity.Those are using force, not logic, to make your case.
3. No refernces to what has has happenned in other posts on other topics. That stuff won't be educational, here.
4. No Emoticons, off topic GIF's, memes and other unrelated material.
5. Simple statement of opinion (yours or other peoples) without explanation / logic / science / fact etc to support it will be regarded as unpersuasive.
6. Just... be nice. And factual. And patient. Be a teacher. DOn't try to win / thump your chest. Educate. DOn't insult.
7. If that is unaceeptable or undesirable, that's OK....so long as anyone of that opinion just moves on, doesn't post and does not engage here by interfering with a respectful, educational discussion.
So... here's my premise: While BC is not the only factor in accuracy, it is a significant factor in all target range distances in a bullets inherent accuracy (defined as its ability to produce small, consistent groups.
Let's start by assembline a somewhat universally accepted definition of ballistic coefficient. Here are several sources:
"Ballistic Coefficient (BC) is basically a measure of how streamlined a bullet is; that is, how well it cuts through the air. Ballistic Coefficient is essentially a measure of air drag. The higher the number the less drag, and the more efficiently the bullet cuts through the air. So for purposes of flying through the air efficiently, the bigger the BC number the better. "
Source: https://www.chuckhawks.com/bc.htm
"There are at least three ways to describe the BC. First, it is widely recognized as a figure of merit for a bullet’s ballistic efficiency. That is, if a bullet has a high BC, then it will retain its velocity better as it flies downrange from the muzzle, will resist the wind better, and will “shoot flatter.”
Source: http://www.exteriorballistics.com/ebexplained/5th/221.cfm
"The ability of the bullet to maintain velocity, in comparison to a ‘standard projectile’. A high BC bullet can maintain velocity better than a low BC bullet under the same conditions. All measures of ballistic performance including drop and wind deflection are related to the bullet’s ability to maintain velocity. In short; the higher the BC, the better the all-around ballistic performance of the bullet will be. "
Source: https://bergerbullets.com/a-better-ballistic-coefficient/
Taken as a whole, BC seems to be how efficiently a bullet handles air/ wind resistance, to minimize drag, maintain velocity, and produce a particualr trajectory.
Other reading seems to indicate BC truly manifests itself at longer ranges - maybe 3-400 yards plus. Making BC a truly (most?) significant factor for long range shooting.
So... what is BC's effect at 100 yards (sight in ranges) ?
In reality, we can mostly only guess / theorize.
But from a logical standpoint, it can be said that while BC will more prominently manifest at longer ranges, the things that a higher BC overcome (air, drag, etc) exist at EVERY range...starting 1 yard from the muzzle. Such that a bullets ability to operate efficiently doesn't magically come into existence at 300+yards. Its also exists at 100 yards.
So... at least logically (who knows what happens in the real world, with all its OTHER variables) a higher BC is desireable at all target ranges.
Numerous wildcards exist:
1. Bullet stabilization. Logically, a bullet that stabilizes at 250 feet will print better (on average) than one that stabilizes at 350 feet, and produce better groups when shooting at a 300 foot (100 yard target .) BC will not overcome an unstable bullet.
2. Inconsistencies in bullet copper jacket / internal lead core that cause instability. A bullets external form (the main driver of its BC) cannot overcome that.
3. Microscopic dents from packaging / transport.
4. Meplat deformation.
5. Microscopic barrel / rifling irregualrities.
6. Microscopic indentations from bullet loading / manufacture.
7. In short, the "external" real world is a huge variable.
(That's why this is largely a theoretical discussion. )
When evaluating group size in hundredths / thousandths of an inch, even the much lesser beneficial effects of higher BC at 100 yards (as compared to 300+ yards) are real and significant.
"Efficiency" (repeated over and over by the sources above as the main aspect of BC) leads to reduction of drag creating greaters consistency of velocity, trajectory, and therefore impact / accuracy at all distances, but most prominmently at long range.
I hold no emotional attachment to this logic / thought process.I'm open to bettter logic....most bcuz I'm trying to shoot better, with better relaoading component decisions, not win this discussion.
In the real world, I'll take a lower BC bullet that shoots well in MY gun, over a higher BC bullet every single day of the week. But not knowing that UNTIL I shoot the load, I'm going to start with higher BC bullets.... till range testing proves otherwise.
Provide facts / logic / reason / science (not just opinion, yours or some "experts" ) and I'll tip my hat and thank you very much for a new perspective.
Aaaannnnnddd.... we're off !
Thanx in advance for all helpful, on topic, educational, non ad hominem posts.
Here are the ground rules:
1. All posts must stay on THIS topic.
2. No ad hominem, insult, personal attack, or profanity.Those are using force, not logic, to make your case.
3. No refernces to what has has happenned in other posts on other topics. That stuff won't be educational, here.
4. No Emoticons, off topic GIF's, memes and other unrelated material.
5. Simple statement of opinion (yours or other peoples) without explanation / logic / science / fact etc to support it will be regarded as unpersuasive.
6. Just... be nice. And factual. And patient. Be a teacher. DOn't try to win / thump your chest. Educate. DOn't insult.
7. If that is unaceeptable or undesirable, that's OK....so long as anyone of that opinion just moves on, doesn't post and does not engage here by interfering with a respectful, educational discussion.
So... here's my premise: While BC is not the only factor in accuracy, it is a significant factor in all target range distances in a bullets inherent accuracy (defined as its ability to produce small, consistent groups.
Let's start by assembline a somewhat universally accepted definition of ballistic coefficient. Here are several sources:
"Ballistic Coefficient (BC) is basically a measure of how streamlined a bullet is; that is, how well it cuts through the air. Ballistic Coefficient is essentially a measure of air drag. The higher the number the less drag, and the more efficiently the bullet cuts through the air. So for purposes of flying through the air efficiently, the bigger the BC number the better. "
Source: https://www.chuckhawks.com/bc.htm
"There are at least three ways to describe the BC. First, it is widely recognized as a figure of merit for a bullet’s ballistic efficiency. That is, if a bullet has a high BC, then it will retain its velocity better as it flies downrange from the muzzle, will resist the wind better, and will “shoot flatter.”
Source: http://www.exteriorballistics.com/ebexplained/5th/221.cfm
"The ability of the bullet to maintain velocity, in comparison to a ‘standard projectile’. A high BC bullet can maintain velocity better than a low BC bullet under the same conditions. All measures of ballistic performance including drop and wind deflection are related to the bullet’s ability to maintain velocity. In short; the higher the BC, the better the all-around ballistic performance of the bullet will be. "
Source: https://bergerbullets.com/a-better-ballistic-coefficient/
Taken as a whole, BC seems to be how efficiently a bullet handles air/ wind resistance, to minimize drag, maintain velocity, and produce a particualr trajectory.
Other reading seems to indicate BC truly manifests itself at longer ranges - maybe 3-400 yards plus. Making BC a truly (most?) significant factor for long range shooting.
So... what is BC's effect at 100 yards (sight in ranges) ?
In reality, we can mostly only guess / theorize.
But from a logical standpoint, it can be said that while BC will more prominently manifest at longer ranges, the things that a higher BC overcome (air, drag, etc) exist at EVERY range...starting 1 yard from the muzzle. Such that a bullets ability to operate efficiently doesn't magically come into existence at 300+yards. Its also exists at 100 yards.
So... at least logically (who knows what happens in the real world, with all its OTHER variables) a higher BC is desireable at all target ranges.
Numerous wildcards exist:
1. Bullet stabilization. Logically, a bullet that stabilizes at 250 feet will print better (on average) than one that stabilizes at 350 feet, and produce better groups when shooting at a 300 foot (100 yard target .) BC will not overcome an unstable bullet.
2. Inconsistencies in bullet copper jacket / internal lead core that cause instability. A bullets external form (the main driver of its BC) cannot overcome that.
3. Microscopic dents from packaging / transport.
4. Meplat deformation.
5. Microscopic barrel / rifling irregualrities.
6. Microscopic indentations from bullet loading / manufacture.
7. In short, the "external" real world is a huge variable.
(That's why this is largely a theoretical discussion. )
When evaluating group size in hundredths / thousandths of an inch, even the much lesser beneficial effects of higher BC at 100 yards (as compared to 300+ yards) are real and significant.
"Efficiency" (repeated over and over by the sources above as the main aspect of BC) leads to reduction of drag creating greaters consistency of velocity, trajectory, and therefore impact / accuracy at all distances, but most prominmently at long range.
I hold no emotional attachment to this logic / thought process.I'm open to bettter logic....most bcuz I'm trying to shoot better, with better relaoading component decisions, not win this discussion.
In the real world, I'll take a lower BC bullet that shoots well in MY gun, over a higher BC bullet every single day of the week. But not knowing that UNTIL I shoot the load, I'm going to start with higher BC bullets.... till range testing proves otherwise.
Provide facts / logic / reason / science (not just opinion, yours or some "experts" ) and I'll tip my hat and thank you very much for a new perspective.
Aaaannnnnddd.... we're off !
Thanx in advance for all helpful, on topic, educational, non ad hominem posts.
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