• Win a RIX Storm S3 Thermal Imaging Scope!

    To enter, all you need to do is add an image of yourself at the range below!

    Join the contest

Berger BC Change

mdmp5

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
  • May 7, 2009
    5,087
    2,506
    Sorry if I'm behind the curve here. I took a few years off from precision rifle.

    I just got a box of 140 hybrids and the BC is a few points lower than posted on the box from 2014. Did litz re determine the BC via a different modality or something? Thanks.
     
    I've noticed that too. Go with latest data. Also, seen this with other bullets from the first edition of his book with other than Berger bullets.
     
    I've noticed that Hornady now lists G1 for their 6.5mm 140 ELD-M at .610 instead of the original .646. Is this due to a design change or just an updated BC through testing? Was unclear if I should change my calculations based on this or if the older bullets are actually .646?
     
    Only the manufacturer can answer that but I would assume they would have changed the model number if they redesigned the bullet.
     
    From the Berger website:

    "Prior to 2008, all of Berger Bullets’ BC’s were calculated using a computer prediction. Early in 2009, we began measuring BC’s with live fire testing. As a result, Berger’s BC’s were updated and G7 BC’s were also made available. This represented a dramatic improvement in the accuracy of performance data at that time. Since 2009, the BC’s assessed for Berger Bullets have not been updated.

    As part of our ongoing effort to provide shooters with the best information possible, Berger has been testing every lot of bullets produced for the last several years. The result is updated and highly accurate running averages of BC’s for recent production lots."

    Source: http://www.bergerbullets.com/update-of-berger-bullets-performance-data/

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From the Hornady website:

    "Hornady originally published “800 yard”* average Ballistic Coefficient (BC) values for ELD-X and ELD Match bullets. This was done to provide the most usable BC from a trajectory prediction standpoint. Unfortunately many shooters did not understand that Hornady was listing a more useable “800 yard” BC while other manufacturers list “200 yard”* BCs. When doing pre-purchase research either on the web or at the store, the increased performance of the ELD Match and ELD-X bullets wasn’t always realized in a head-to-head BC comparison. Hornady will now publish “200 yard” (Mach 2.25 / 2,512 fps @ ICAO Standard Atmosphere**) G1 and G7 Ballistic Coefficient (BC) numbers for all ELD-X and ELD Match bullets. Mach 2.0 (2,233 fps @ ICAO Standard Atmosphere) and Mach 1.75 (1,954 fps @ ICAO Standard Atmosphere) BC values will also be available on the Hornady website (www.hornady.com/BC). As Hornady moves the industry to drag coefficient based trajectory calculations for these types of projectiles (www.hornady.com/4dof) the Ballistic Coefficient is becoming somewhat irrelevant except for those still using BC based trajectory calculators or when using BC as a rating criteria for bullet performance.

    Ballistic Coefficient (BC) values at Mach 2.25 (2512 fps @ ICAO Standard Atmosphere) should be used when comparing to other published BC values within the industry. Ballistic Coefficient values at Mach 1.75 (1954 fps @ ICAO Standard Atmosphere), should be used when calculating trajectories for shooting beyond 600 yds. Ballistic Coefficient values at Mach 2.0 and 1.75 offer comparisons to other manufacturers that publish multiple BC’s based on velocity.

    In addition to the change listed above, a select few ELD-X and ELD Match bullets initially had BC values that were determined from prototype bullets. As Hornady moved into production of these bullets, the BC value increased (a positive gain) due to the improvements in the manufacturing process from R&D to production machinery."

    Source: www.hornady.com/BC
     
    Thanks guys! I was aware or Hornady's 4dof ballistic calculator but am still learning about its differences to standard G1 and G7 calculations. All in all the 4dof differences don't seem to be much compared to my Strelok apps and the Applied Ballistics software, but I'm still getting acclimated to it.
     
    I've noticed that Hornady now lists G1 for their 6.5mm 140 ELD-M at .610 instead of the original .646. Is this due to a design change or just an updated BC through testing? Was unclear if I should change my calculations based on this or if the older bullets are actually .646?

    I think someone inputting data or something on the new site bumped back to the original .610 which was first used. The .646 is the correct G1 BC. It's still listed in the BC breakdown and bands listed.

    https://www.hornady.com/support/ballistic-coefficient
     
    So, Berger takes the time to publish BC by lot? So, basically BC may change materially from lot to lot for other manufacturers as well. This may explain changes in BC for other manufacturers. That may explain why I see changes in BC values from Litz's book. They are basically only good for the lot he tested. Those old BC values are not written in stone.