I have a 16" Stag, chrome lined, 1x9 twist, Nato & am shooting 55gr-62gr & 69gr bullets 250-300yds. By going to a custom (Krieger,White Oak) barrel,Wylde chamber,1x7 twist, & shooting 68, 75, & 77gr bullets what will the group differance REALLY be. Will I get a 60-70% tighter group, or will it only be a 10% tighter group? Assume a perfect environment...mounted in concrete shooting 250 yds. What is the most cost effective alternative?
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Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
It depends, what kind of groups do you get now? In other words, since you are the most critical component in the system, how good a shot are you?
At my last barrel change, I sent my upper to Krieger and let them work their magic. I shose their 5.56 NATO match chamber with the 1:7.7 twist. I think you would be pleased with the accuracy. One word of caution though, this is a tight Match chamber, their name for it is misleading. It allows you to seat long bullets, like the 80grainers.
I don't know about being the most cost effective, I sent the upper to the guys that make the barrels and they took care of it. Krieger knows ARs.
It depends, what kind of groups do you get now? In other words, since you are the most critical component in the system, how good a shot are you?
At my last barrel change, I sent my upper to Krieger and let them work their magic. I shose their 5.56 NATO match chamber with the 1:7.7 twist. I think you would be pleased with the accuracy. One word of caution though, this is a tight Match chamber, their name for it is misleading. It allows you to seat long bullets, like the 80grainers.
I don't know about being the most cost effective, I sent the upper to the guys that make the barrels and they took care of it. Krieger knows ARs.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
If you are shooting military ball ammo 55 and 62 grain, the barrel is not going to make that big of a diffrence. If you load your own ammo using lets say Serria 69 or 77 grain bullets you can expect 1/2 to 1 moa at 100 yards. Also take into consideration how your rifle is set up now. Do you have a scope on it?Is the barrel free floated? Can you shoot 1/2 inch groups?
Most of the stock barrels I have had will shoot very well.However, all of my rifles have custom barrels on them so to me it is worth it.
If you are shooting military ball ammo 55 and 62 grain, the barrel is not going to make that big of a diffrence. If you load your own ammo using lets say Serria 69 or 77 grain bullets you can expect 1/2 to 1 moa at 100 yards. Also take into consideration how your rifle is set up now. Do you have a scope on it?Is the barrel free floated? Can you shoot 1/2 inch groups?
Most of the stock barrels I have had will shoot very well.However, all of my rifles have custom barrels on them so to me it is worth it.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
Call these folks: www.rbprecision.com I've dealt with them twice on AR's and was extremely pleased.
Call these folks: www.rbprecision.com I've dealt with them twice on AR's and was extremely pleased.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
Speaking from a NRA/CMP shooter's point of view...
As far as group size, I think either a Krieger or a White Oak barrel (Armament or Precision) will serve you well and can easily shoot 1/2MOA with the right ammo.
I shoot a WOA barrel (Wilson 1-7 wylde chamber) on my AR15 service rifle and can usually get about 3500-4000 rounds out of the tube before it won't hold the X-ring any longer. Still plenty of life in the tube, but usually for reduced courses of fire only.
Some of the folks that shoot with us that have Krieger barrels report that they can get around 5,000 rounds out of their barrels before accuracy falls off.
Since you're limiting yourself to 300yds max, I'd say save the money and go with a WOA/WOP barrel. My rifle is on it's 3rd WOA barrel.
Speaking from a NRA/CMP shooter's point of view...
As far as group size, I think either a Krieger or a White Oak barrel (Armament or Precision) will serve you well and can easily shoot 1/2MOA with the right ammo.
I shoot a WOA barrel (Wilson 1-7 wylde chamber) on my AR15 service rifle and can usually get about 3500-4000 rounds out of the tube before it won't hold the X-ring any longer. Still plenty of life in the tube, but usually for reduced courses of fire only.
Some of the folks that shoot with us that have Krieger barrels report that they can get around 5,000 rounds out of their barrels before accuracy falls off.
Since you're limiting yourself to 300yds max, I'd say save the money and go with a WOA/WOP barrel. My rifle is on it's 3rd WOA barrel.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
I need to take some paper out to the plates but my bushmaster varmitter does crazy good at 600 and 800 yards, you can hit stuff that is the size of a soup can everytime. What are you trying to accomplish though, you want sub moa at 100 yards?
Mind you, my bushmaster is a little more of a fine wine gal with ammo, if I use my reloads its AMAZING but it needs to be cleaned pretty damn quick.
This is my first AR platform, so I do not have anything to compare to, however, everyone says "well that gun is more tight so it will need to be cleaned asap for that level of accuracy". And then they say "if you want a gun that you can plink with, then you need a different upper that is more loose."
Everytime I shoot this rifle though, I just sit in amazement at how it does so well. It is 1:9 twist and stainless, and to be honest, the Remington 55gr UMC ammo does really well unless it is windy.
I need to take some paper out to the plates but my bushmaster varmitter does crazy good at 600 and 800 yards, you can hit stuff that is the size of a soup can everytime. What are you trying to accomplish though, you want sub moa at 100 yards?
Mind you, my bushmaster is a little more of a fine wine gal with ammo, if I use my reloads its AMAZING but it needs to be cleaned pretty damn quick.
This is my first AR platform, so I do not have anything to compare to, however, everyone says "well that gun is more tight so it will need to be cleaned asap for that level of accuracy". And then they say "if you want a gun that you can plink with, then you need a different upper that is more loose."
Everytime I shoot this rifle though, I just sit in amazement at how it does so well. It is 1:9 twist and stainless, and to be honest, the Remington 55gr UMC ammo does really well unless it is windy.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
on my favorite sbr, it has a 12.5 noveske SS barrel. From a rest it shoots better that 1/2 moa if i do my job! It is a freak of nature.
on my favorite sbr, it has a 12.5 noveske SS barrel. From a rest it shoots better that 1/2 moa if i do my job! It is a freak of nature.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
Try Olympic Arms for a barrel. Their Super Match ones are known to be accurate. I have gotten great results from their standard HBAR's as well. BTW, Their tubes are all I like from them.
Try Olympic Arms for a barrel. Their Super Match ones are known to be accurate. I have gotten great results from their standard HBAR's as well. BTW, Their tubes are all I like from them.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
My 18" WOA SPR 1/7 twist barrel only likes the 77gr SMK's. It will shoot these 1/2MOA. It's about 2 MOA with 62gr surplus and 4 MOA with Georgia Arms 55gr ball.
Krieger 20" 1/7.7 shoots anything I feed it well. 69 & 77 SMK's are all 1/2 MOA or better and everything else is hovering around 1-1/2MOA.
WOA is good stuff, but I might consider an 8 twist for 300 yards or less.
My 18" WOA SPR 1/7 twist barrel only likes the 77gr SMK's. It will shoot these 1/2MOA. It's about 2 MOA with 62gr surplus and 4 MOA with Georgia Arms 55gr ball.
Krieger 20" 1/7.7 shoots anything I feed it well. 69 & 77 SMK's are all 1/2 MOA or better and everything else is hovering around 1-1/2MOA.
WOA is good stuff, but I might consider an 8 twist for 300 yards or less.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nbkky71</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Since you're limiting yourself to 300yds max, I'd say save the money and go with a WOA/WOP barrel. My rifle is on it's 3rd WOA barrel. </div></div>
I agree with this advice. I have a WOA 18 inch SPR barrel, and its better than I am. Price was only $180 a few years ago. Not sure what they're running for now though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nbkky71</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Since you're limiting yourself to 300yds max, I'd say save the money and go with a WOA/WOP barrel. My rifle is on it's 3rd WOA barrel. </div></div>
I agree with this advice. I have a WOA 18 inch SPR barrel, and its better than I am. Price was only $180 a few years ago. Not sure what they're running for now though.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
Snyper762 is correct about Oly barrels. There brotch cut super match barrel is as good as they come!! I did a ton of research on this subject a while back. I ended up with one of there barreles, and it was, everything it was supposed to be!!!!! Lee
Snyper762 is correct about Oly barrels. There brotch cut super match barrel is as good as they come!! I did a ton of research on this subject a while back. I ended up with one of there barreles, and it was, everything it was supposed to be!!!!! Lee
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 9secondsflat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">buy a les baer varmint barrel for 425 bucks...the only thing that will come close is a lilja for similar price... </div></div>
Not true!! Lots of good barrel makers. The rifle needs to be put together correctly as well as having a good barrel. Nothing wrong with Lilja, thats for sure. Lee
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 9secondsflat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">buy a les baer varmint barrel for 425 bucks...the only thing that will come close is a lilja for similar price... </div></div>
Not true!! Lots of good barrel makers. The rifle needs to be put together correctly as well as having a good barrel. Nothing wrong with Lilja, thats for sure. Lee
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snyper762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try Olympic Arms for a barrel. Their Super Match ones are known to be accurate. I have gotten great results from their standard HBAR's as well. BTW, Their tubes are all I like from them. </div></div>
+1 on Olympic barrels. Very good.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snyper762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try Olympic Arms for a barrel. Their Super Match ones are known to be accurate. I have gotten great results from their standard HBAR's as well. BTW, Their tubes are all I like from them. </div></div>
+1 on Olympic barrels. Very good.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
Call Compass Lake Engineering, I bought a 18 SPR Douglas XX from the 2 years ago, and love it. This was before barrels went crazy but it was only like 250.00, the I added a mathced bolt and carrier. I ordered a 1/10 to try something differant, but it loves 55gr vmax. Consistantly shoots 1/2 5 shot groups at 100. Have shot some sub 2" groups a 300. This is pdog ammo made on my Dillion. I just checked and they are now $295.80 and $56.00 for the bolt. The machine work is very nice.
Call Compass Lake Engineering, I bought a 18 SPR Douglas XX from the 2 years ago, and love it. This was before barrels went crazy but it was only like 250.00, the I added a mathced bolt and carrier. I ordered a 1/10 to try something differant, but it loves 55gr vmax. Consistantly shoots 1/2 5 shot groups at 100. Have shot some sub 2" groups a 300. This is pdog ammo made on my Dillion. I just checked and they are now $295.80 and $56.00 for the bolt. The machine work is very nice.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
never can figure this fellas. my bushy hbar ak shorty carbine is scary tight shooting,clover leafs at 100. got it as a "entry" piece but dang it groups. then theres the myriad of purpose built "tack drivers that arent" that ive gone thru. proof is always in the pudding and seems to always baffle me which shoot well and which dont.
never can figure this fellas. my bushy hbar ak shorty carbine is scary tight shooting,clover leafs at 100. got it as a "entry" piece but dang it groups. then theres the myriad of purpose built "tack drivers that arent" that ive gone thru. proof is always in the pudding and seems to always baffle me which shoot well and which dont.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
That's great marduk185. Pretty unusual fora chrome lined 16" entry type rifle to shoot that good. Better keep her!!! Lee
That's great marduk185. Pretty unusual fora chrome lined 16" entry type rifle to shoot that good. Better keep her!!! Lee
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
WOA is best deal out there in my opinion and I've went through alot of uppers including bushmaster, compass lake, lijla barreled upper from a local smith, and WOA uppers
WOA is best deal out there in my opinion and I've went through alot of uppers including bushmaster, compass lake, lijla barreled upper from a local smith, and WOA uppers
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
White Oak SPR barrel and the good part is when you shear off the indexing pin on the barrel extension, John will repair it for the cost of shipping, at least he did for me!
White Oak SPR barrel and the good part is when you shear off the indexing pin on the barrel extension, John will repair it for the cost of shipping, at least he did for me!
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
So what kindo of groups are you getting with your Olympic barrel? I'm looking at the 16" Ultramatch because I already have a 24" AR and I wanted something not as heavy but would still be accurate.
So what kindo of groups are you getting with your Olympic barrel? I'm looking at the 16" Ultramatch because I already have a 24" AR and I wanted something not as heavy but would still be accurate.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
My Knights wears a Krieger 1-7.7" barrel and so far Iam happy with her. I haven't had a chance to really put it thru the paces but the few times I've been able to make it out shooting when home it was a consistant shooter and the bore was easy to clean.
I'm still collecting different ammo combos to try when I am home next.
But White Oak and Compass Lake would be a wise choice in my opinion for the OP.
My Knights wears a Krieger 1-7.7" barrel and so far Iam happy with her. I haven't had a chance to really put it thru the paces but the few times I've been able to make it out shooting when home it was a consistant shooter and the bore was easy to clean.
I'm still collecting different ammo combos to try when I am home next.
But White Oak and Compass Lake would be a wise choice in my opinion for the OP.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
Best for the money, is a RRA 20" NM barrel. These can be had cheaper then WOA. Mine shot almost every heavy bullet good.
Best for the money, is a RRA 20" NM barrel. These can be had cheaper then WOA. Mine shot almost every heavy bullet good.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
It really depends on what you can find that you will not have to wait a year or more to get right now.
It really depends on what you can find that you will not have to wait a year or more to get right now.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
I called WOA today and asked about lead times and if any were different with different barrels. They said 14-20 weeks for everything. Did not matter what you order.
I called WOA today and asked about lead times and if any were different with different barrels. They said 14-20 weeks for everything. Did not matter what you order.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cobra_Killer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I called WOA today and asked about lead times and if any were different with different barrels. They said 14-20 weeks for everything. Did not matter what you order. </div></div>
Call these guys. They have them in stock. I just ordered a 18" SPR last weekend.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=449
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cobra_Killer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I called WOA today and asked about lead times and if any were different with different barrels. They said 14-20 weeks for everything. Did not matter what you order. </div></div>
Call these guys. They have them in stock. I just ordered a 18" SPR last weekend.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=449
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m41</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cobra_Killer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I called WOA today and asked about lead times and if any were different with different barrels. They said 14-20 weeks for everything. Did not matter what you order. </div></div>
Call these guys. They have them in stock. I just ordered a 18" SPR last weekend.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=449 </div></div>
I received my WOA 18" with a rifle length gas system and matching bolt. After getting everything put together, I am confident I made a good purchase. I am still working loads up but so far it has been outstanding with everything form 55's to 69's. 77 MK's are loaded and ready to test next.
I like it!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m41</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cobra_Killer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I called WOA today and asked about lead times and if any were different with different barrels. They said 14-20 weeks for everything. Did not matter what you order. </div></div>
Call these guys. They have them in stock. I just ordered a 18" SPR last weekend.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=449 </div></div>
I received my WOA 18" with a rifle length gas system and matching bolt. After getting everything put together, I am confident I made a good purchase. I am still working loads up but so far it has been outstanding with everything form 55's to 69's. 77 MK's are loaded and ready to test next.
I like it!!
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
I have a 18" Douglass stainless match in 1-8 twist that I got at Compass Lake Engineering. You can purchase a matching bolt that is head spaced to the bbl. I shot mine today and put 10 rounds in .6in. at 100 yds. using 69 gr. smk I don't remember the total cost, but they put threaded it and timed the JP muzzle brake on it and chambered it with the Wylde chamber. It shoot mil surp and match ammo great.
I have a 18" Douglass stainless match in 1-8 twist that I got at Compass Lake Engineering. You can purchase a matching bolt that is head spaced to the bbl. I shot mine today and put 10 rounds in .6in. at 100 yds. using 69 gr. smk I don't remember the total cost, but they put threaded it and timed the JP muzzle brake on it and chambered it with the Wylde chamber. It shoot mil surp and match ammo great.
Re: Best AR barrel for tighter groups for the $$$.
There may be someone who knows what the best cheap barrel is, but you won't be able to know who that person is who has the correct answer with the lack of evidence that is thrown around. Quoting MOA without listing a specific well defined test is pointless and makes baby Jesus cry. Even a very detailed test only gives the picture for a single barrel. When someone has a 50 round test of each of 10 barrels of a single type, and can compare that to the same test for 10 barrels from several other makers, then they have some data.
I think barrels should be test fired and then sold like diamonds - with a certificate. The better the score on the test, the more it sells for. Each barrel is an individual so this seems like the only real way to be sure.
There may be someone who knows what the best cheap barrel is, but you won't be able to know who that person is who has the correct answer with the lack of evidence that is thrown around. Quoting MOA without listing a specific well defined test is pointless and makes baby Jesus cry. Even a very detailed test only gives the picture for a single barrel. When someone has a 50 round test of each of 10 barrels of a single type, and can compare that to the same test for 10 barrels from several other makers, then they have some data.
I think barrels should be test fired and then sold like diamonds - with a certificate. The better the score on the test, the more it sells for. Each barrel is an individual so this seems like the only real way to be sure.
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