Best factory ammo for 20” 308 for long range training class up to 1300yd?

[slowjunk]

I will be attending my first long range shooting course. I have never shot over 500 yards and the class will be up to and including 1000 yards and they say there are targets out to 1300 yards. I need to bring 300 rounds and I would like to bring the best factory stuff available considering rifle I have and the ranges so I have the best experience possible. I have a FN A5M XP 20” 308 with a 1:10 twist. The course is at a site about 500’ ASL. I have seen the videos showing an 18” Gladius going easily out to 1000 yards with CorBon 175gr ammo not too far above sea level so 1000 yards with a 20” barrel should be fine for training at this distance and altitude. However, I am wondering if there is a more ideal factory ammunition for this course than the CorBon 175 or 175 FGMM given there will be some targets beyond 1000 yards. I did read in one post (#13) from LowLight that he had some very hot 308 ammunition that he said was “factory 170gr HPS stuff which is rated around 2750fps (at 18") with a bullet with a .525 BC”. I have never heard of 308 ammunition that is 170gr At 2750fps from a 20” barrel much less an 18” barrel, but it would seem great if it does exist. Does anyone know what he is referring to? I would guess it is Lapua 170gr Lockbase that I have heard was hot stuff some years ago but is it that hot and if so is it still available? I see Lapua currently has a special cartridge for short barrel 308 with the 170gr lockbase that looks fast in short barrels but not 2750fps fast. What would the best factory ammunition be for a 20” barrel at 1000 yards and beyond up to a max of 1300. It is only training so hits at 1300 yards would be just for learning not first time right. Would the 185 Federal Berger be a superior choice or something like the ballistic tipped 175 FGMM from Spark Munitions? Is there a factory load with Warner flatline that I could switch to when going beyond 1000?

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/minimul-barrel-length-in-308-to-reach-1000-yards.13756/

 

[Sixfivesavage]

I'd seriously consider two routes with the same bullet......the federal gold medal match 185 jug load or have McCourt load you some jugs. It's awesome in my AX with a shorter barrel.

 

[OLD308]

The difference between FGMM 175s and all the other ammo your referencing will be lost on you. Your newness to the disciples will have a greater impact. I would suggest just buying FGMM 175s as it’s a inexpensive (comparatively speaking) known performer. Hope this helps.

 

[Steel head]

I’ve seen 175 FGMM do surprisingly decent at 1300ish.

 

[diverdon]

I’ve seen 175 FGMM do surprisingly decent at 1300ish.

Me too.

 

[Centuriator]

Federal Gold Medal Match 175gr SMK

Out of my various bolt guns, with great triggers, and great optics, I routinely get them nearly in the same hole at 100 yards. If you do your part, you'll get hits at 1300 yards.

 

[BoilerUP]

Federal Gold Metal Berger 185gr Juggernaut.

 

[slowjunk]

Thanks. I assumed the Federal Gold Medal 175 SMK or Berger would be the right choice. I am still hugely curious about what the “factory” ammunition is that lowlight mentioned that did 2750fps out of a 18” barrel with 170gr projectiles. Is that even possible or is it a typo?

 

[Will Fennell]

My SAKO TRG 22/308 shoots factory Hornady 178gr BTHP better than FGMM 175gr SMK or 185gr Berger. The G1 BC of the Hornady 187gr BTHP is .530, which is better than the 175gr SMK.

YMMV

Best,

Will

 

[jbailey]

I am still hugely curious about what the “factory” ammunition is that lowlight mentioned that did 2750fps out of a 18” barrel with 170gr projectiles. Is that even possible or is it a typo?

I don't believe that is a factory ammo, but loads featuring the Warner Flatline 160gr https://www.warner-tool.com/product/30-caliber-160gr/
Flatlines are certainly not factory....

175gr SMK by FGMM will get your job done w/o issues. You, not the load, will be the bigger source of error.

 

[atomic41]

My 20" .308 shoots the 175 FGMM to 1000 just fine. Lots of great advice here, listen to these guys.

 

[Aaros143]

I'll echo the Federal 185 load. Fantastic stuff.

 

[FCS]

Best "factory" ammo for LR shooting is ammo that is tuned up to your rifle.

Quality ammo matters, longer the distance the more it matters.
Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.

Every time you change propellant / jacket material, takes 3-5 rounds for barrel to settle down. There is a reason service rifle guys try to run a single powder, jacket material. Your test of alternating PPU / FGMM for groups did more to muddy the waters than not.

First 5 rds @ 100
View attachment 7137432

Second 5 rds @ 200
View attachment 7137433View attachment 7137434

Third 5 rds @ 100
View attachment 7137439

Stock 700, 5R, 20”, 223, isn’t even bedded.
Berger 73 Match BT, virgin brass
View attachment 7137440


Ammo matters if you want to learn, not guess what is happening, IMHO.

Better the ammo shoots from your rifle, the more you will get from the class.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Again....McCourt and 185s is the ticket.

 

[Centuriator]

@slowjunk

SUGGESTION:

Before you take the class, buy a box of a few of the suggested commercial loads recommended on this thread and try them out in your rifle to test which provides the best groups. Also, making sure your gear works, and your scope is zeroed, is necessary before you take the class. You don't want to be "that guy" who shows up with his scope improperly mounted, not zeroed, and has absolutely no idea what he is doing with his rifle. It is very frustrating to the other people in a class when a guy shows up not having done the necessary basic preparations, then he ends of taking away from the instruction that everyone else is paying for. FWIW.

 

[Centuriator]

Also, if you don't have your dope really dialed in, knowing muzzle velocity from YOUR rifle, etc. etc. etc. you will find getting hits at 1300 to be quite a challenge.

 

[FCS]

+1 to this. You're not shooting a cartridge or rifle that is well positioned for performance at 1000yds plus. Debating between 185's and 175's is just shades of grey. The infinitesimal difference between the two is really not worth the money, IMO. Especially for your purposes.

I respectfully disagree.
Appreciable difference between 185 Juggernaut and a 175 SMK.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

I've not shot much 175 grain federal gold metal match but I've shot a bunch of 175 smk hand loads and the FGMM was slower and I can attest that the jug is a significant step in performance at distance. Consistency always wins but all else being equal the jug will smoke the smk.

 

[slowjunk]

@slowjunk

SUGGESTION:

Before you take the class, buy a box of a few of the suggested commercial loads recommended on this thread and try them out in your rifle to test which provides the best groups. Also, making sure your gear works, and your scope is zeroed, is necessary before you take the class. You don't want to be "that guy" who shows up with his scope improperly mounted, not zeroed, and has absolutely no idea what he is doing with his rifle. It is very frustrating to the other people in a class when a guy shows up not having done the necessary basic preparations, then he ends of taking away from the instruction that everyone else is paying for. FWIW.

I agree that I will do that. I will need to borrow a chronograph to determine muzzle velocity as well based on the other suggestions.

 

[slowjunk]

Is there any appreciable difference between the velocity of a Federal Berger with the 185 Juggernaut versus a 308 cartridge with the same bullet from someone like Applied Ballistics or McCourt Munitions? Is the difference only on the COAL (so distance to the rifling lands and therefore accuracy potential) between Federal Berger and a custom load from McCourt?

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Is there any appreciable difference between the velocity of a Federal Berger with the 185 Juggernaut versus a 308 cartridge with the same bullet from someone like Applied Ballistics or McCourt Munitions? Is the difference only on the COAL (so distance to the rifling lands and therefore accuracy potential) between Federal Berger and a custom load from McCourt?

My load with the jugs that McCourt loads for me is longer in OAL than the FGMM and .2 flatter than the FGMM at 600 yards. I've not plugged the numbers to calculate the MV of the FGMM off that or choreographed it but the McCourt load is moving at 2585 fps for reference.

 

[drum13]

You're really overthinking this. All you need are 175gr BTHP SMK either Federal or Black Hills. It will get you out there even with an 18" barrel. Plan for at least 100 rounds a day.

Those classes are designed to help you get dope on your rifle out to the max distance. The instructors will teach you how to make it happen.

It's more important to have your rifle and gear squared away with a scope that has enough elevation to get you out to 1200 between adjustment and holdover.

 

[wigwamitus]

If I had to shoot a .308 to 1200yds with factory ammo, I'd go with the berger palma "long COAL" load.

This data does not exactly fit the OPs question, but I worked up this data to answer questions I was asking. But this data is in the ballpark of the OPs questions.

The 175gr is the FGMM 7.62 load out of REM700 SPS TAC AAC-SD 20 inch barrel.
The 155gr is HSM load of SMK bullet #2156 (the new Palma SMK) from REM700 with 22 inch criterion
The 155.5 is Berger load of berger 155.5 REM700 with 22 inch criterion
The 190gr is FGMM REM700 with 24 inch criterion
The 220gr is Barnes Precision REM700 with 24 inch criterion.

The first thing to note is that the 155.5 berger beats the 175gr on all ballistic measures shown including energy. That was a shocker to me. Now these are 74.44 COAL so I had to single shot them until I modified my action and got no binder plate mags. But single shooting works for most purposes. I got a double (Coon and opossum) one night (both were in view and within 30yds of each other between 205 and 227 yds distant from me at time of first shot) single shooting and time mattered for that activity.

So, the 155.5 gr wins on danger space and lag time and energy. Of course comparing a long COAL load to a couple of non-long COAL loads might not be fair. But if we're talking factory ammo, I was going with that ... and also going with the factory ammo I happen to be shooting this year.


(FWIW all this ^^ data is real data from my rifles ... on my land ... not from ammo boxes )

 

[slowjunk]

You're really overthinking this. All you need are 175gr BTHP SMK either Federal or Black Hills. It will get you out there even with an 18" barrel. Plan for at least 100 rounds a day.

Those classes are designed to help you get dope on your rifle out to the max distance. The instructors will teach you how to make it happen.

It's more important to have your rifle and gear squared away with a scope that has enough elevation to get you out to 1200 between adjustment and holdover.

Thanks. I am sure I will learn a lot in the class. I also appreciate the great opportunity for learning that this forum offers.

Out of curiosity I am still wondering if lowlight made a typo or what that hot factory load was that did 2700+ with 170gr out of 18” barrel.

 

[FCS]

I think McCourt stuff is tuned to the rifle but I'm not sure. I'd imagine the tuned stuff is probably just going to be more consistent.

Yes, McCourt Munitions ammo is optimized to rifle; test ammo is sent out, load is optimized to a specific, individual rifle.

Short barreled rifle, big bullets lose less performance.

Palma shooters are forced to 155s, given option most Palma shooters would gladly run heavier bullet.
I’ve NEVER seen 155s beat out 175s much less 185s for performance in real world (on paper, at 1k, for score) from 26” or longer barrel. 18-20” barreled rifles, 185s are just that much better. Most Palma rifles are 30” barrels, a lot of the published data is based off of a 30” bbl for 155 loads.

I’m in NM, always have wind and 185s do better across the board all other factors being equal.

OP, what rifle are you shooting?
Factory bbl’ed rifle or a custom barreled rifle?
What stock is rifle in?
What mounting system for scope?
What scope?

Ammo matters, that is fact. Spending the money to attend a class and not taking ammo that allows you to maximize learning? Prime example of false economy.

 

[drum13]

It wasn't a typo. He did a couple of videos with that ammo but honestly, I don't remember what it was. What does the school's gear list say to bring for ammo? I would only take what they recommend - and that stuff probably isn't on the list. You really don't need expensive specialty ammo for your first shooting class.

You'll be more than all set with factory match 175's to hit the steel and get dope on your rifle. Usually, the least amount of time is spent shooting 1,000+ yards toward the end of the class after you get the hang of the basics.

 

[slowjunk]

Yes, McCourt Munitions ammo is optimized to rifle; test ammo is sent out, load is optimized to a specific, individual rifle.

Short barreled rifle, big bullets lose less performance.

Palma shooters are forced to 155s, given option most Palma shooters would gladly run heavier bullet.
I’ve NEVER seen 155s beat out 175s much less 185s for performance in real world (on paper, at 1k, for score) from 26” or longer barrel. 18-20” barreled rifles, 185s are just that much better. Most Palma rifles are 30” barrels, a lot of the published data is based off of a 30” bbl for 155 loads.

I’m in NM, always have wind and 185s do better across the board all other factors being equal.

OP, what rifle are you shooting?
Factory bbl’ed rifle or a custom barreled rifle?
What stock is rifle in?
What mounting system for scope?
What scope?

Ammo matters, that is fact. Spending the money to attend a class and not taking ammo that allows you to maximize learning? Prime example of false economy.

To your question, it is a FN A5m XP 20” 1:10 twist rifle with the factory barrel and the original McMillan A5 stock with a Steiner 3-15 scope in a Spuhr mount. I am quite unclear why you ask about the stock, optic, and the optic mount when it comes to the ammo selection? Can you clarify the reasoning behind the question about the stock, optic, and optic mount because I would guess that the rifle would shoot the same with or without an optic mounted neglecting the difference in overall inertia and center of mass differences.

 

[Crang]

My SAKO TRG 22/308 shoots factory Hornady 178gr BTHP better than FGMM 175gr SMK or 185gr Berger. The G1 BC of the Hornady 187gr BTHP is .530, which is better than the 175gr SMK.

YMMV

Best,

Will

Thats interesting. FGMM 175s are the most accurate factory load I have found for my TRG and I have tried many. I can handload for it with a lower SD but Ive yet to get a handload that shoots smaller groups at the shorter ranges before SD really matters.

 

[FCS]

To your question, it is a FN A5m XP 20” 1:10 twist rifle with the factory barrel and the original McMillan A5 stock with a Steiner 3-15 scope in a Spuhr mount. I am quite unclear why you ask about the stock, optic, and the optic mount when it comes to the ammo selection? Can you clarify the reasoning behind the question about the stock, optic, and optic mount because I would guess that the rifle would shoot the same with or without an optic mounted neglecting the difference in overall inertia and center of mass differences.

Because ammo is the fuel for a SYSTEM, weak links in system can easily cause issues.

Rem 700 in a Tupperware stock? That’s gonna be an issue.
Bushnell 3-9 Sportview? That’s gonna be an issue.

Without having some idea of the system being used, really hard to make any meaningful suggestions.