Rifle Scopes Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

[thefitter]

What would be the best reticle for real precision at 1000+ ??

Not just single center mass hits.

 

[jasonk]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

Any particular scope maker in mind? Or a budget?

 

[thefitter]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any particular scope maker in mind? Or a budget? </div></div>

No budget

S&B preferably

Hendsolt maybe

Thanks

 

[Rob01]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

P4F

 

[bm11]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

If you are shooting groups at 1000, you might want to consider the Nightforce Benchrest series.

I personally like the Schmidt and Bender p4f best out of all reticles I have used.

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What would be the best reticle for real precision at 1000+ ??

Not just single center mass hits. </div></div>

I just love open ended questions like this. Since you specified "real precision", how about being precise about exactly what your talking about. What I mean is 1kyds+, on what kind of targets, with what kind of round, with what kind of firearm and for what purposes do you envision it's use?

For example the reticle/scope combination I would recommend for 1kyds benchrest competition, would be different than one might wish to use for the perforation of engine blocks with a 50cal @ 1500 yds plus.

Context is everything, and without proper context this entire post just becomes an exercise in mental masturbation.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

best reticule is one you can see very very clearly with....read quality glass that allows the clean consistent let off on the trigger

 

[Timo Turl]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

I'd suggest some of the NF reticles like the NPR1 and NPR2 should be up there. The reticles are extremely fine making them very good for long range precision. However, they probably aren't the best if you need to "pick up" the reticle quickly for rapid target engagement.

 

[terrygood]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

second the NF reticles with the little dots.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

You need a BR specific reticle....NF, March are popular with the BR crowd. Target dot reticles.

 

[thefitter]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P4F </div></div>

That's the one I had been planning on getting for awhile. But I thought I'd ask if there was anything better.

Can you compare the P4F on a 5-25x56 at 1000yds to my GENII Mildot on a 3-12X50 at say 100-200yds? How thick will it appear?

Thanks

 

[thefitter]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need a BR specific reticle....NF, March are popular with the BR crowd. Target dot reticles. </div></div>

I saw one of those. It had a 1/8 moa dot. I'm not shooting BR though, just plain old "tacticool".

Eventually I would like to get good enough to compete LR. Then I could maybe meet some of the righteous shooters from the forum, and beat some of the pricks.

Thanks

 

[rezmedic54]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

I would say the reticle on a WOTAC would be ideal especially if it had more magnification.

 

[Aries64]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P4F </div></div>

That's the one I had been planning on getting for awhile. But I thought I'd ask if there was anything better.</div></div>
The only FFP reticle that is better for long range precision in a S & B is the Gen 2 XR reticle. Unfortunately, Premier Reticles, who designed and patented the Gen 2 XR no longer licenses S & B to use their designs. PMIIs' with Gen 2 XRs' are both rare and expensive, <span style="font-style: italic">so unless you can find someone with a PMII 5-25X Gen 2 XR that is willing to part with it <span style="color: #FF0000">and you are willing to pay what they want for it</span></span>, the best choice for your intended purpose is the P4F.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you compare the P4F on a 5-25x56 at 1000yds to my GENII Mildot on a 3-12X50 at say 100-200yds? How thick will it appear?

Thanks </div></div>
Unfortunately, I don't have a reticle PDF for the PMII 3-12X so I can't reference the reticle subtensions. The subtensions quoted here for the Gen 2 XL are for the PMII 4-16X, and may not be indicative of the line thickness (width) of the PMII 3-12X.

The line thickness (width) of the Gen 2 XL 4-16X is .06 MRAD (.216") at 100 yards, whereas the line thickness (width) of the P4F is .035 MRAD (.126") at 100 yards. Obviously, those dimensions multiply as you go further out (.12 MRAD/.432" and .070 MRAD/.252" respectively at 200 yards), ect.

However, don't forget the good part - a FFP scope's reticle will always cover up the same area regardless of magnification.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Premier Reticles Gen 2 XL reticle diagram for the PMII 4-16X at 16X:</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Schmidt & Bender P4F reticle diagram for the PMII 4-16X and 5-25X:</span></span>

Keith

 

[Powerstrokediesel]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

+1 P4F

 

[thefitter]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P4F </div></div>

That's the one I had been planning on getting for awhile. But I thought I'd ask if there was anything better.</div></div>
The only FFP reticle that is better for long range precision in a S & B is the Gen 2 XR reticle. Unfortunately, Premier Reticles, who designed and patented the Gen 2 XR no longer licenses S & B to use their designs. PMIIs' with Gen 2 XRs' are both rare and expensive, <span style="font-style: italic">so unless you can find someone with a PMII 5-25X Gen 2 XR that is willing to part with it <span style="color: #FF0000">and you are willing to pay what they want for it</span></span>, the best choice for your intended purpose is the P4F.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you compare the P4F on a 5-25x56 at 1000yds to my GENII Mildot on a 3-12X50 at say 100-200yds? How thick will it appear?

Thanks </div></div>
Unfortunately, I don't have a reticle PDF for the PMII 3-12X so I can't reference the reticle subtensions. The subtensions quoted here for the Gen 2 XL are for the PMII 4-16X, and may not be indicative of the line thickness (width) of the PMII 3-12X.

The line thickness (width) of the Gen 2 XL 4-16X is .06 MRAD (.216") at 100 yards, whereas the line thickness (width) of the P4F is .035 MRAD (.126") at 100 yards. Obviously, those dimensions multiply as you go further out (.12 MRAD/.432" and .070 MRAD/.252" respectively at 200 yards), ect.

However, don't forget the good part - a FFP scope's reticle will always cover up the same area regardless of magnification.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Premier Reticles Gen 2 XL reticle diagram for the PMII 4-16X at 16X:</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Schmidt & Bender P4F reticle diagram for the PMII 4-16X and 5-25X:</span></span>

Keith </div></div>

<span style="color: #3333FF">Thanks. What is the difference between P4F and P4FL? I saw the "L" on the German site.</span>

 

[Bushmaster7]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

P4F or the Horus H37 for overall flexibility at long ranges. Expanded image can be found on the Horus Vision site.

 

[Aries64]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #3333FF">.....Thanks. What is the difference between P4F and P4FL? I saw the "L" on the German site.</span> </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"L"</span></span> is short for <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Lit"</span></span>, i.e. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Illuminated"</span></span>. All commercial PMII 5-25Xs' are <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"LP"</span></span> scopes (Illuminated + Parallax-adjustable) from the factory.


Keith

 

[SKS Guy]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

+1 NF BR

 

[dar1246]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

1+

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SKS Guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 NF BR </div></div>

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any particular scope maker in mind? Or a budget? </div></div>

No budget

S&B preferably

Hendsolt maybe

Thanks </div></div>

I would imagine the best would be a SPF scope in the first instance. Secondly, even Hensoldts reticle in the 6-24x56 or 6-24x70 would give as fine a reticle as you would need.

Sightron have some very good scopes/reticle for LR precision work as well. It doesn't have to be the usual suspects for your needs.

MikeMiller who is a world class precision shooting competitor I believe uses a BR Nightforce (x32?) but I dont know the reticle. Send him a PM, his handle here is Tactical. He knows a thing or two about slings as well...

 

[thefitter]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any particular scope maker in mind? Or a budget? </div></div>

No budget

S&B preferably

Hendsolt maybe

Thanks </div></div>

I would imagine the best would be a SPF scope in the first instance... </div></div>

I have heard this before. Why is a second focal plane preferred? Is this what is used in F class and long range BR? Thanks

 

[Papagallos]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

NPR-1

 

[rocky_lange]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need a BR specific reticle....NF, March are popular with the BR crowd. Target dot reticles. </div></div>

I saw one of those. It had a 1/8 moa dot. I'm not shooting BR though, just plain old "tacticool".

Eventually I would like to get good enough to compete LR. Then I could maybe meet some of the righteous shooters from the forum, and beat some of the pricks.

Thanks </div></div>

No, you may not be shooting BR, but you did say precision over center mass hits. So, a target dot SFP is IMHO the best option. It you are shooting at a circle shaped target, it is easiest to center a dot in the circle for repeatable shot placement as long as the conditions haven't changed. SFP because the reticule stays the same size throughout the magnification range. With a FFP, when you crank the magnification up, the reticule gets larger obscuring the center of the target making precision a little harder, but still allowing the center mass "hey I hit it" shots.

Just my 2cents.

 

[gprippers]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What would be the best reticle for real precision at 1000+ ??

Not just single center mass hits. </div></div>

I just love open ended questions like this. Since you specified "real precision", how about being precise about exactly what your talking about. What I mean is 1kyds+, on what kind of targets, with what kind of round, with what kind of firearm and for what purposes do you envision it's use?

For example the reticle/scope combination I would recommend for 1kyds benchrest competition, would be different than one might wish to use for the perforation of engine blocks with a 50cal @ 1500 yds plus.

Context is everything, and without proper context this entire post just becomes an exercise in mental masturbation.

</div></div>

AMAZING!! We were able to get some solid suggestions that made a helluva lot of sense with out circle jerkin as suggested! LOL! Thanks to all who posted as i appreciated the info my self.

 

[Powerstrokediesel]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

+1 P4F

 

[Jeeprider]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

Schmidt & Bender <span style="font-weight: bold">P4F</span> for that detail work you're looking for.

 

[pawprint]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What would be the best reticle for real precision at 1000+ ??

Not just single center mass hits. </div></div>
IMHO, you need to see what the top shooters use at 1000, in real matches, with real judges and not results from a computer fantasy. Precision 1000+, 1/8MOA Dot is King. I would look at the 1000 yard "any any" matches at Camp Perry-and see what the world champions and world record holders are actually shooting-far and away 1/8MOA dot/ or similar set up. Your question states "real precision" this is a far cry from-hitting somewhere on the target.

 

[SouthFork]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

Nightforce

Look at the guys who are shooting little 10 shot groups at 1000 yards at the PA Matches most of them are running NPR 1 & 2's.

http://www.pa1000yard.com/results/toplis...0&year=2010

 

[Tactical]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

Its all about groups or field work when you talk 1000 yard shooting.

If it is field or tactical the FFP is the way to go
If it is static ranges, static targets RFP is way to go.

For Static range/targets many of the reticles will work well

For F TR I have been using many different reticles and the one thing really needed is a fine center section, fine lines to aim with.

I never used a BR Nightforce but used a NXS 8-32 and 12-42 a bunch. Fantastic scopes. I prefer the 1 MOA ret in these scopes so I can make fast wind adjustments without touching dials. Of these two scopes I would go with 42X for F Open Class and 8-32 for F TR. I find the 32x plenty of power with tons of adjustment for the 308. These are great scopes for F Class and heavy sniper rifles.

I have used a March 10-60 and 8-80 with a 1 moa ret a bunch also and it has better glass than my NXS's do. Have never seen better F Class Scopes but cost is high.

Right now I am running Leupolds. Have been shooting with them for last couple of months nd really happy. One is a 8-25 MK4 and the other is a fixed 35x. Both are doing as well as any of the other scopes have and at less cost. ( I ran the 8-25 in State Full Bore Championships and US/Canadian Matches anddid fairly well but wished for a little more power up close when X was shot up. Funny at 1000 yards had no problem seeing all the rings on 25X)Very good glass and tracked like a train.

I ran the fixed 35X in yesterdays Regional Championships until they called the match for bad assed weather. That fixed 35 worked as well as any scope ever has for me. I need to wait and see how a fixed does under heavy mirage as so far no mirage issues have shown up. Yesterday I was able to see/aim at parts of the actual X in middle of target. Its that clear. I forgot how nice fixed powers can be.

 

[aggiesig]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

for benchrest type stuff I would go with an ultra fine plex or target dot.

for a Horus type reticle, I prefer the less busy Vortex EBR-2B:

 

[thefitter]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GPRIPPERS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thefitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What would be the best reticle for real precision at 1000+ ??

Not just single center mass hits. </div></div>

I just love open ended questions like this. Since you specified "real precision", how about being precise about exactly what your talking about. What I mean is 1kyds+, on what kind of targets, with what kind of round, with what kind of firearm and for what purposes do you envision it's use?

For example the reticle/scope combination I would recommend for 1kyds benchrest competition, would be different than one might wish to use for the perforation of engine blocks with a 50cal @ 1500 yds plus.

Context is everything, and without proper context this entire post just becomes an exercise in mental masturbation.

</div></div>

AMAZING!! We were able to get some solid suggestions that made a helluva lot of sense with out circle jerkin as suggested! LOL! Thanks to all who posted as i appreciated the info my self. </div></div>

Yes sometimes things work out despite the downers. Thanks to everyone for the advice!

I went with a S&B 12-50x56 <span style="text-decoration: underline">SFP</span> - .25cm klicks with a P4F. For what I need this scope to do it's pretty close to perfect. The SFP with P4F is ideal. And I can still range at 25 or 50 power if needed.

 

[djtjr]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

nightforce BR target dot or similar reticle if you want to use it for more than that get the NP R1 or Npr2 whichever they make in the br scopes
d

 

[XTR]

Re: Best reticle at 1000+ yards for precision/groups?

For shooting something like F class, known distances at 600/1000 yds. Then a NF NP-2DD is a good choice.

NP-2DD

Easier to see than a fine CH or a CH dot. You don't need a ranging reticle, you know how far you are shooting and you don't want the reticle covering up the target.

But it's not very tacticool.