In looking at all the data and researching loads I am stuck between these two. What are your opinions and experience.
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Better ELR 7saum or 284
- Thread starter savageeaglenavy
- Start date
Re: Better ELR 7saum or 284
Strictly between those two choices, 7 RSAUM because it's got more horsepower. It'll get a 180 going a good 100-150fps faster than a 284 can.
For a "practical" rifle that will occasionally be used at extended range, the 284 is probably the better choice because it is a little mroe "practical" than a RSAUM, but if you're setting up an ELR rifle - you could do a bunch better than either the 284 or RSAUM.
Strictly between those two choices, 7 RSAUM because it's got more horsepower. It'll get a 180 going a good 100-150fps faster than a 284 can.
For a "practical" rifle that will occasionally be used at extended range, the 284 is probably the better choice because it is a little mroe "practical" than a RSAUM, but if you're setting up an ELR rifle - you could do a bunch better than either the 284 or RSAUM.
Re: Better ELR 7saum or 284
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Strictly between those two choices, 7 RSAUM because it's got more horsepower. It'll get a 180 going a good 100-150fps faster than a 284 can.
For a "practical" rifle that will occasionally be used at extended range, the 284 is probably the better choice because it is a little mroe "practical" than a RSAUM, but if you're setting up an ELR rifle - you could do a bunch better than either the 284 or RSAUM. </div></div>
Just for my understanding what in do you think would be a good choice for a dedicated ELR as I know each has there own ideas on this but I am interested.
I am currently building a 260 for 1000 yard matches as I have moved away from the 30 cal's after alot of research and alot of range time. I originally was going to stick with what I knew --308, 300, 338--- but with some time and a bit of money there are better solutions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Strictly between those two choices, 7 RSAUM because it's got more horsepower. It'll get a 180 going a good 100-150fps faster than a 284 can.
For a "practical" rifle that will occasionally be used at extended range, the 284 is probably the better choice because it is a little mroe "practical" than a RSAUM, but if you're setting up an ELR rifle - you could do a bunch better than either the 284 or RSAUM. </div></div>
Just for my understanding what in do you think would be a good choice for a dedicated ELR as I know each has there own ideas on this but I am interested.
I am currently building a 260 for 1000 yard matches as I have moved away from the 30 cal's after alot of research and alot of range time. I originally was going to stick with what I knew --308, 300, 338--- but with some time and a bit of money there are better solutions.
Re: Better ELR 7saum or 284
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Strictly between those two choices, 7 RSAUM because it's got more horsepower. It'll get a 180 going a good 100-150fps faster than a 284 can.
For a "practical" rifle that will occasionally be used at extended range, the 284 is probably the better choice because it is a little mroe "practical" than a RSAUM, but if you're setting up an ELR rifle - you could do a bunch better than either the 284 or RSAUM. </div></div>
What would you recommend as the better caliber.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Strictly between those two choices, 7 RSAUM because it's got more horsepower. It'll get a 180 going a good 100-150fps faster than a 284 can.
For a "practical" rifle that will occasionally be used at extended range, the 284 is probably the better choice because it is a little mroe "practical" than a RSAUM, but if you're setting up an ELR rifle - you could do a bunch better than either the 284 or RSAUM. </div></div>
What would you recommend as the better caliber.
Re: Better ELR 7saum or 284
I have a 284imp and shoot a 180 Berger Hybrid at 2850 fps. I have plates on the mountain above the range at 1509 yards and can ring them without a problem. Doesn't have much energy at that range but don't have the recoil of my edge either.
I have a 284imp and shoot a 180 Berger Hybrid at 2850 fps. I have plates on the mountain above the range at 1509 yards and can ring them without a problem. Doesn't have much energy at that range but don't have the recoil of my edge either.
Re: Better ELR 7saum or 284
+1 the only real draw back to the SAUM is brass availability. Otherwise, its an awesome cartridge.
That having been said, I shoot regularly in the desert at and beyond 1,900 yards with a guy that uses .284 Winchester (tipped 180 Berger Hybreds @ 2,850+). On our range (roughly 3,000 ft alt) he hits my 18"x24" steel target very consistently.
"better" (at least to me) for ELR depends upon your reason for shooting at these distances. If you are trying to bring down an elk or moose, then the 7mm is probably too small (in my opinion); if you are ringing steel, the 7mm can get it done from theses distances.
If you want 2,000 yards plus, then you need to step up to 338 or bigger, or you need to run the Berger's a bunch faster than 2,900 fps (from my experience, the 180 VLDs don't transition very well; not sure about the Hybreds, as I've not watched them fly at distances where I knew they were subsonic). My 7 Dakota has successfully shot my 18"x24" steel on my desert spot at 2,100+ (but it runs a Tipped 180 Berger Hybred @ roughly 3,200 fps.)
Jeffvn
+1 the only real draw back to the SAUM is brass availability. Otherwise, its an awesome cartridge.
That having been said, I shoot regularly in the desert at and beyond 1,900 yards with a guy that uses .284 Winchester (tipped 180 Berger Hybreds @ 2,850+). On our range (roughly 3,000 ft alt) he hits my 18"x24" steel target very consistently.
"better" (at least to me) for ELR depends upon your reason for shooting at these distances. If you are trying to bring down an elk or moose, then the 7mm is probably too small (in my opinion); if you are ringing steel, the 7mm can get it done from theses distances.
If you want 2,000 yards plus, then you need to step up to 338 or bigger, or you need to run the Berger's a bunch faster than 2,900 fps (from my experience, the 180 VLDs don't transition very well; not sure about the Hybreds, as I've not watched them fly at distances where I knew they were subsonic). My 7 Dakota has successfully shot my 18"x24" steel on my desert spot at 2,100+ (but it runs a Tipped 180 Berger Hybred @ roughly 3,200 fps.)
Jeffvn
Re: Better ELR 7saum or 284
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeffvn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 the only real draw back to the SAUM is brass availability. Otherwise, its an awesome cartridge.
That having been said, I shoot regularly in the desert at and beyond 1,900 yards with a guy that uses .284 Winchester (tipped 180 Berger Hybreds @ 2,850+). On our range (roughly 3,000 ft alt) he hits my 18"x24" steel target very consistently.
"better" (at least to me) for ELR depends upon your reason for shooting at these distances. If you are trying to bring down an elk or moose, then the 7mm is probably too small (in my opinion); if you are ringing steel, the 7mm can get it done from theses distances.
If you want 2,000 yards plus, then you need to step up to 338 or bigger, or you need to run the Berger's a bunch faster than 2,900 fps (from my experience, the 180 VLDs don't transition very well; not sure about the Hybreds, as I've not watched them fly at distances where I knew they were subsonic). My 7 Dakota has successfully shot my 18"x24" steel on my desert spot at 2,100+ (but it runs a Tipped 180 Berger Hybred @ roughly 3,200 fps.)
Jeffvn </div></div>
Jeffvn-
good post - thanks. Follow-up question on it: what BC are you using for the tipped 180gr Hybrid? I have a pointing die but haven't used it yet on any bullets partly because I haven't had the time to figure out the new BC w/ the tip... again, thanks.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeffvn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 the only real draw back to the SAUM is brass availability. Otherwise, its an awesome cartridge.
That having been said, I shoot regularly in the desert at and beyond 1,900 yards with a guy that uses .284 Winchester (tipped 180 Berger Hybreds @ 2,850+). On our range (roughly 3,000 ft alt) he hits my 18"x24" steel target very consistently.
"better" (at least to me) for ELR depends upon your reason for shooting at these distances. If you are trying to bring down an elk or moose, then the 7mm is probably too small (in my opinion); if you are ringing steel, the 7mm can get it done from theses distances.
If you want 2,000 yards plus, then you need to step up to 338 or bigger, or you need to run the Berger's a bunch faster than 2,900 fps (from my experience, the 180 VLDs don't transition very well; not sure about the Hybreds, as I've not watched them fly at distances where I knew they were subsonic). My 7 Dakota has successfully shot my 18"x24" steel on my desert spot at 2,100+ (but it runs a Tipped 180 Berger Hybred @ roughly 3,200 fps.)
Jeffvn </div></div>
Jeffvn-
good post - thanks. Follow-up question on it: what BC are you using for the tipped 180gr Hybrid? I have a pointing die but haven't used it yet on any bullets partly because I haven't had the time to figure out the new BC w/ the tip... again, thanks.
Re: Better ELR 7saum or 284
B. Litz says that you can gain roughly 8% on the BC from trimming and tipping the Berger 180 VLDs (Second Edition of his book). I believe that is a bit enthusiastic, so I raised the BC in my calculator by something between 3-4% (I don't recall the exact end number). I kept tweaking the BC number until it matched my drops dead-on at distances beyond 1,500 yards.
Jeffvn
B. Litz says that you can gain roughly 8% on the BC from trimming and tipping the Berger 180 VLDs (Second Edition of his book). I believe that is a bit enthusiastic, so I raised the BC in my calculator by something between 3-4% (I don't recall the exact end number). I kept tweaking the BC number until it matched my drops dead-on at distances beyond 1,500 yards.
Jeffvn
No, I don't think you're dreaming at all. Some of the new .308" heavies have astounding BC. The 300WM with a ~230 bullet isn't going to reach the same velocity as an overbore 7mm with a 180 (~3000fps, maybe a bit more), but with a .7+ BC, it has plenty of speed to reach a mile no problem. Not quite as flat as the high capacity 7, but less drift.
You'll be burning more powder, and you'll be dealing with more recoil. Otherwise, good to go.
FYI, if you want to ping somebody, type [MENTION=11748]sandwarrior[/MENTION] and the forum will send that user an email telling them they've been mentioned. Nice trick.
I was 99% on having Mark do a 7CM, but instead decided to try the Super LR cartridge. I've got tooling on order with PTG to do both 6.5 and 7, and REALLY can't decide which to try first.
I chose the Super because it's got a little more capacity and that loooong 6mm remington-esque neck, which still allows the bullet to be seated north of the NSJ yet fit/feed nicely in AW magazines.
I'll start a thread about it when it's together!
I like the idea of the super and the long neck. Have you had a chance to compare necessary lengths in a Rem 700 SA? How about a Savage? I can get a 3.020" coal cartridge in a standard Savage short action. As opposed to the 2.895" in a Rem 700. That is without modifications.
The reason I ask all this is because when someone wants to stick this new and improved cartridge into a -10 platform, as a normal progression, will it be too long?
The reason I ask all this is because when someone wants to stick this new and improved cartridge into a -10 platform, as a normal progression, will it be too long?
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I ordered a .050" freebore 6.5mm reamer, which will put a 139 scenar on the lands @ 2.800" and a 142smk there at 2.815".
Totally AR10 magazine friendly.
I also ordered a throating reamer so I can throat out a boltgun however deep I like for the AW mags, Alphas, or AICS mags with the plate removed (~2.950").
I opened up the neck diameter to .298" though, to provide a couple extra .001"s of neck clearance. Tight necks don't do anything but cause problems for us tactical shooters. This will provide ~.004"/side neck clearance with Winchester brass.
I also ordered a .319" necking reamer to punch it out to 7mm, as well as a 7mm throating reamer.
Balls deep or go home, right?
Totally AR10 magazine friendly.
I also ordered a throating reamer so I can throat out a boltgun however deep I like for the AW mags, Alphas, or AICS mags with the plate removed (~2.950").
I opened up the neck diameter to .298" though, to provide a couple extra .001"s of neck clearance. Tight necks don't do anything but cause problems for us tactical shooters. This will provide ~.004"/side neck clearance with Winchester brass.
I also ordered a .319" necking reamer to punch it out to 7mm, as well as a 7mm throating reamer.
Balls deep or go home, right?
Balls deep in an ice covered swamp is how I feel about which way to go sometimes. But, honestly, that sounds like a good planning covering both bases that way.
If you can get the brass then I would go for a 7SAUM. A good friend of mine uses one and it does great!
M
