Bighorn Origin why is no one talking about it

[Codiekfx400]

I ordered two origins with the 223 bolt head one left hand one right. Why is the Origin so quiet on the hide seems like a nice action at a good price. Hoping to set mine up with a shouldered prefit barrel in a 1-7 or 1-8 twist to launch the 75 eld at prairie dogs.

 

[kRcu]

There is a bunch of chatbin the Origin vs Nucleus thread.

 

[MachoKing]

I kind of went soft when it said "short action only".

 

[Skunkworx]

I think for the most part there’s nothing new or innovative to discuss. It’s a budget version of their tl3 which has a good track record.

 

[mi223]

There was some talk in the original origin thread about a long action being a definite posability. If they offered that at the same introductory price i would have a hard time not trying one.

 

[m6z]

I'm on the list. I've been wanting a TL3 for years, but could never justify the expense.

It doesn't have the 'NEW' appeal that the ARC Nucleus action has, but it looks to be a great value. The $750 intro price plus a $525 PVA shouldered barrel and you've got a custom barreled action for $1,275.

 

[steve123]

I ordered two origins with the 223 bolt head one left hand one right. Why is the Origin so quiet on the hide seems like a nice action at a good price. Hoping to set mine up with a shouldered prefit barrel in a 1-7 or 1-8 twist to launch the 75 eld at prairie dogs.

The Nucleus is exciting and very innovative, the Origin is a base model Bighorn, which is a fine action I'm sure, but just not a WOW thing like the other.

If I were Bighorn I'd leave it at the introductory price and call it good, they'd win more market share because of the price alone.

 

[m6z]

They're still $175 less than the Nucleus at the regular prices. $825 vs $1,000.

I'm sure they're both great actions and If I had the cash I'd would of got one of each, but at the $825 every day price of the Origin they're going to be taking a big chunk of the market. Zero reason to build off of a factory 700 action with the current options.

 

[Carl_Ross]

It is less novel than the Nucleus, which it can’t help but be compared to. I don’t necessarily see it as a function of better or worse, but there is less new about it to discuss and generate buzz. Additionally, it won’t be available until August, which IMO is far enough away that it’s harder to get people excited for it.

If I wasn’t well set up with TL3’s, I’d have probably ordered some Origins. I really like the guys at Zermatt and the actions I have from them.

 

[steve123]

They're still $175 less than the Nucleus at the regular prices. $825 vs $1,000.

I'm sure they're both great actions and If I had the cash I'd would of got one of each, but at the $825 every day price of the Origin they're going to be taking a big chunk of the market. Zero reason to build off of a factory 700 action with the current options.

Me, I'll pay the extra money for the Nucleus. The Origin introductory price was tempting though....

 

[Supersubes]

I ordered one of each.

The nucleus is a total unicorn as far as actions go. Add three models of barloc in there as well as a respected smith offering spec and custom rifles based off of it into the mix. Quite simply, the nucleus needs a lot of discussion.

Doesn’t take away from the origin at all imo.

 

[lennyo3034]

I think the biggest impact will be to other lower priced customs and trued 700s. I was actually eyeing the stiller at $925 late last year, but absolutely no interest now.

 

[Codiekfx400]

I think the biggest impact will be to truing 700s and other lower priced customs. I was actually eyeing the stiller at $925 late last year, but absolutely no interest now.

I was not aware that any custom action needed to be trued. I am also a newbie to any custom action so just learning as I go.

 

[lennyo3034]

Edited my post to make it more clear.

 

[briscoetab]

The Nucleus is exciting and very innovative, the Origin is a base model Bighorn, which is a fine action I'm sure, but just not a WOW thing like the other.

If I were Bighorn I'd leave it at the introductory price and call it good, they'd win more market share because of the price alone.

Umm, the nucleus is basically the same thing a base model mausingfield with a different kind of bolt stop and three lugs. Three lugs are not new or innovative, perhaps the cocking mechanism that ARC is using is innovative I don’t know I’m not an expert. Both companies are basically doing the exact same thing to bring the cost of the actions down: action is made from cheaper steel (I’m pretty sure the alloy used for the nucleus is cheaper and not the same as that on the mausingfield), nitride finish, non-integral recoil lugs. The mausingfield has a dlc coating and they just went with nitride coating for the nucleus. I would also guess that new new bolt stop is cheaper to machine into the action than the one on the mausingfield, doesn’t mean it is lower quality just cheaper way of accomplishing the same thing an maybe a better bolt stop I don’t know but nothing that I think makes the action better.

Bighorn basically is offering exact same action as the tl3 just made out of cheaper material and dosen’t have a integral recoil lug and no additional options.

I think both actions are great and I think it is awesome that both are making high quality lower cost options. I just don’t see the innovative wow factor that your talking about with the nucleus. If money wasn’t a factor for me I would choose the mausingfield over the nucleus and the tl3 over the origin because in my opinion neither action has any upgrade over the more expensive actions other than price. I also chose the origin over the nucleus just because the origin offers me everything I want for slightly cheaper. I would rather have the two lug instead of three lug, if I wanted a three lug then I would have definitely went with nucleus.

 

[BurnOut]

I kind of went soft when it said "short action only".

That was the big decider for me... I was looking for a long action when I jumped on the Nucleus bandwagon.

That said, I'm certainly excited to get it in hand... but in the grand scheme of things, I think that either product (Origin or Nucleus) will do what needs to be done at both ends of the rifle.

 

[m6z]

One of the things that swayed me to the Bighorn was the fact that the disassembly was simpler and requires no tools. Also, while the Nucleus bolt stop appears to be very stout it's still retained by a screw, something that could be lost in the field.

 

[Codiekfx400]

My understanding is the origin, tl3, rem 700, and savage can all share a action wrench which is a plus. Could someone explain to me in a dollar amount why it costs so much to have a integral recoil lug. Never made sense to me why it would cost any more for this feature. Or if it was more money, time, material just a few dollars more.

 

[m6z]

With the pinned lugs they're starting with round stock to make the action and the integral lugs have to start with a block of billet steel. There is a lot more machine time and material waste with the integral actions

 

[dannySH]

My understanding is the origin, tl3, rem 700, and savage can all share a action wrench which is a plus. Could someone explain to me in a dollar amount why it costs so much to have a integral recoil lug. Never made sense to me why it would cost any more for this feature. Or if it was more money, time, material just a few dollars more.

I read somewhere that the price of the crude steel block that is used for making the actions increase exponentially with its radius. When the recoil lug is integrated the block needs to be way bigger. I can't tell you exactly how much more it costs but if I remember well was as more as 5 times the price.

 

[NateVA]

Umm, the nucleus is basically the same thing a base model mausingfield with a different kind of bolt stop and three lugs. Three lugs are not new or innovative, perhaps the cocking mechanism that ARC is using is innovative I don’t know I’m not an expert.

I'm not an expert on actions either but I'm not aware of any other action that is both controlled round feed AND three lug, so I think there's certainly some innovation there even without considering the bolt stop. The recoil lug keying into the scope base as well as the design of the scope base in general also seems novel. Then again I'm likely biased since I have a Nucleus preordered.

 

[delfuego]

My understanding is the origin, tl3, rem 700, and savage can all share a action wrench which is a plus. Could someone explain to me in a dollar amount why it costs so much to have a integral recoil lug. Never made sense to me why it would cost any more for this feature. Or if it was more money, time, material just a few dollars more.

I cannot speak for the Savage, but the Bighorn TL3/Origin requires a slightly different action wrench due to the ejector being in the action body and not on the bolt. Bighorn TL2 and older can use an R700 action wrench.

As to the cost for integrated recoil lug, it is not only thing which sets Bighorn apart. There is considerable differences from a standard tubular action, not to mention the considerable loss of material required to create the integrated lug. The Bighorn actions have different material, different treatments and very, very high machining tolerances. AJ originally added the integrated recoil purely to assist buyers in stock fit. The original Bighorn had a different footprint and required a different inlet. The integrated lug was to make it a drop-in action for R700 stocks. Everything about Bighorn actions cost more, they are nothing like a Savage or Remington. The fact that they are offering a $850 action is amazing to me.

 

[briscoetab]

I’m certainly not an expert on actions either but it seems to me the nucleus design is pretty similar to the Sako 85 action design as far as 3-lugs and CRF. Don’t get me wrong not saying Sako action is in same league as the nucleus just comparing the 3-lug and CRF design.

 

[bohem]

Umm, the nucleus is basically the same thing a base model mausingfield with a different kind of bolt stop and three lugs. Three lugs are not new or innovative, perhaps the cocking mechanism that ARC is using is innovative I don’t know I’m not an expert. Both companies are basically doing the exact same thing to bring the cost of the actions down: action is made from cheaper steel (I’m pretty sure the alloy used for the nucleus is cheaper and not the same as that on the mausingfield), nitride finish, non-integral recoil lugs. The mausingfield has a dlc coating and they just went with nitride coating for the nucleus. I would also guess that new new bolt stop is cheaper to machine into the action than the one on the mausingfield, doesn’t mean it is lower quality just cheaper way of accomplishing the same thing an maybe a better bolt stop I don’t know but nothing that I think makes the action better.

Bighorn basically is offering exact same action as the tl3 just made out of cheaper material and dosen’t have a integral recoil lug and no additional options.

I think both actions are great and I think it is awesome that both are making high quality lower cost options. I just don’t see the innovative wow factor that your talking about with the nucleus. If money wasn’t a factor for me I would choose the mausingfield over the nucleus and the tl3 over the origin because in my opinion neither action has any upgrade over the more expensive actions other than price. I also chose the origin over the nucleus just because the origin offers me everything I want for slightly cheaper. I would rather have the two lug instead of three lug, if I wanted a three lug then I would have definitely went with nucleus.

There are 5 different patent applications in for the Nucleus alone. About 5-6 on the original Mausingfield launch IIRC.

The cocking mechanism of the Nucleus is better than any of the other actions from either company and it shows in the bolt lift that is light for any action, let alone a short throw 3 lug.

 

[Codiekfx400]

I cannot speak for the Savage, but the Bighorn TL3/Origin requires a slightly different action wrench due to the ejector being in the action body and not on the bolt. Bighorn TL2 and older can use an R700 action wrench.

As to the cost for integrated recoil lug, it is not only thing which sets Bighorn apart. There is considerable differences from a standard tubular action, not to mention the considerable loss of material required to create the integrated lug. The Bighorn actions have different material, different treatments and very, very high machining tolerances. AJ originally added the integrated recoil purely to assist buyers in stock fit. The original Bighorn had a different footprint and required a different inlet. The integrated lug was to make it a drop-in action for R700 stocks. Everything about Bighorn actions cost more, they are nothing like a Savage or Remington. The fact that they are offering a $850 action is amazing to me.

Thank you for clearing this up for me. Sounds like the origin is great for its price point which is what I was after.

 

[Codiekfx400]

I think the Nucleus is a great action and I might get one in the future. Most likely a John Hancock rifle in 6 br (never had a 6 br and want one.) But to be quite honest I was tired of reading about all the confusion with the BarLoc. I feel for Bohem and Ted at ARC for getting all the orders sorted out. Sure is nice to have all of these high quality actions to choose from instead of truing a now bankrupt Remington.

 

[kRcu]

I just put a deposit on a PVA barreled action with the Nucleus. After watch this vid of Ted explaining the thought behind the designs, it really got me excited about it. Not saying it’s better than this or that, just intrigued by numerous little details.

 

[jlficken]

With the pinned lugs they're starting with round stock to make the action and the integral lugs have to start with a block of billet steel. There is a lot more machine time and material waste with the integral actions

That isn't true in the case of the TL3 from what I saw on my tour of Bighorn. It starts as round stock but it has to be larger than that of the Origin.

 

[briscoetab]

There are 5 different patent applications in for the Nucleus alone. About 5-6 on the original Mausingfield launch IIRC.

The cocking mechanism of the Nucleus is better than any of the other actions from either company and it shows in the bolt lift that is light for any action, let alone a short throw 3 lug.

I know you know what you talking about and I was mainly just stating my opinion. You definitely have more experience with this stuff than me and have actually had your hands on both actions, I haven’t even handled either one I’m just going off of the information that is out there. That being said.

The cocking mechanism is one of the thing that I said might be innovative but I didn’t know if anyone had done something similar. Also just because there is a patent pending does not mean something is innovative.

Like I said above I think both actions are great and honestly I only chose the origin because I have experience with the TL2 and I have been wanting a TL3 and the origin is slightly cheaper than the nucleus.

I am not taking anything away from Ted, the ARC actions are awesome and I definitely say the mausingfield was a very innovative design, one of the most innovative that I know of for a long time. The nucleus seems like a great action as well but there is nothing that changed from the mausingfield to it that wows me other than the lower price tag, I don’t really care about the 3 lug shorter bolt throw design, I know a lot of people do. The mausingfield did on the other hand did wow me.

You said that there are 5 patents pending: one of this the recoil lug, once again this is nothing new as far as using a lug that is orintated without pinning but perhaps the way he did it is a better design than those before but nothing about it wows me. Another one of the patents is for the extractor, this does seem like a better design and slightly interesting. Then there is the striker assembly/cocking mechanism which I already admitted was innovative. The last that I can see is the three lug toroidal bolt head which othere than the three lugs is carry over from the mausingfield. Then there is the bolt stop, it dosen’t say anything about a patent on this but it is different than I have seen but once again nothing in my opinion that really adds anything to the action.

I’ll admit compared to the origin the nucleus does have a lot of changes but I am not sure I would call any of them improvements over the mausingfield other than the 3 lug and striker assembly. There is nothing about it that is really a downgrade either and it comes in at much cheaper price. Just my opinion.

 

[Captramrod01]

@briscoetab at this point WTF are you even arguing? Trying to convince anyone that the Nucleus is not an innovative action is a losing battle.

 

[Supersubes]

I know you know what you talking about and I was mainly just stating my opinion. You definitely have more experience with this stuff than me and have actually had your hands on both actions, I haven’t even handled either one I’m just going off of the information that is out there. That being said.

The cocking mechanism is one of the thing that I said might be innovative but I didn’t know if anyone had done something similar. Also just because there is a patent pending does not mean something is innovative.

Like I said above I think both actions are great and honestly I only chose the origin because I have experience with the TL2 and I have been wanting a TL3 and the origin is slightly cheaper than the nucleus.

I am not taking anything away from Ted, the ARC actions are awesome and I definitely say the mausingfield was a very innovative design, one of the most innovative that I know of for a long time. The nucleus seems like a great action as well but there is nothing that changed from the mausingfield to it that wows me other than the lower price tag, I don’t really care about the 3 lug shorter bolt throw design, I know a lot of people do. The mausingfield did on the other hand did wow me.

You said that there are 5 patents pending: one of this the recoil lug, once again this is nothing new as far as using a lug that is orintated without pinning but perhaps the way he did it is a better design than those before but nothing about it wows me. Another one of the patents is for the extractor, this does seem like a better design and slightly interesting. Then there is the striker assembly/cocking mechanism which I already admitted was innovative. The last that I can see is the three lug toroidal bolt head which othere than the three lugs is carry over from the mausingfield. Then there is the bolt stop, it dosen’t say anything about a patent on this but it is different than I have seen but once again nothing in my opinion that really adds anything to the action.

I’ll admit compared to the origin the nucleus does have a lot of changes but I am not sure I would call any of them improvements over the mausingfield other than the 3 lug and striker assembly. There is nothing about it that is really a downgrade either and it comes in at much cheaper price. Just my opinion.

You’re making our point for us. Think of it in terms of “combination of features”. Lots of neat tech out there, seldomly are so many elements put into a single action. Then there’s the price point....

 

[briscoetab]

@briscoetab at this point WTF are you even arguing? Trying to convince anyone that the Nucleus is not an innovative action is a losing battle.

Well sorry, didnt realize I was arguing, didn’t realize someone couldn’t have a discussion about something without it being an argument. My intention wasn’t to sway anyone any direction. What I was saying simply had to do with what someone stated above about the bighorn being a base model and the nucleus having a wow factor (not their exact words). I never said the action was not innovative I was simply stating my personal opinion why I didn’t really get that wow factor from the innovation/differences because I didn’t feel it really changed the functionality of the nucleus to mausingfield much (other than the 3 lug CRF which had been done before just not to the standard provided by ARC).

You’re making our point for us. Think of it in terms of “combination of features”. Lots of neat tech out there, seldomly are so many elements put into a single action. Then there’s the price point....

If I am good, I hope something I said does changes someone’s mind from the origin to the nucleus or vise versa. All I was trying to do was discuss what was good about both actions, if you look at what I said never said anything that I thought was negative about them (because I am not sure that there is) and most of my discussion was about the nucleus because it is different from the mausingfield in some areas where the origin is pretty much the same.

Honestly after looking a the action little closer my opinion has changed slightly, I really didn’t think the extractor was that big of a deal but after looking at that design a little closer I admit I think that is pretty cool. I also thought the 3 lug design with the striker assembly pretty cool too just not something that was that big of interest to me.

Well I guess since it appears that my version of a discussion is an argument, I will leave it at that and will exit this topic and leave it to y’all, sorry.

 

[ZEROGUY]

I put down a deposit on an Origin last month. It looks like PVA is offering pre-machined shouldered barrels for the Origins.

I am still debating between the shouldered pre-fit PVA is offering, vs a barrel nut system like the bugnut or the bighorn 12pt nut. The barloc looks cool, I just don't have a need to make barrel changes field expedient.

I'm planning to buy my chassis, trigger, barrel, scope, as my budget allows, and have everything ready to assemble by August/Sept when I hope my action gets here.

Just curious for the other guys waiting on an Origin, what route do you plan on going as far as attaching a barrel?

 

[brianf]

i really think the reason for such little traffic is that new bolt actions are getting like screw drivers or AR-15's.
there is a new one every 6 months, and all things being equal they are all the same.
top quality materials and finishes
some coated metal usually in a round shape with a hole for a bolt
slick coating
different bolt head/ejector (yet none of these actions are more accurate than a previous top quality action)
and almost all fit the prehistoric R700 pattern
pin/integral recoil lug and get a few barrels made up and you now have a multi caliber.

 

[bohem]

I put down a deposit on an Origin last month. It looks like PVA is offering pre-machined shouldered barrels for the Origins.

I am still debating between the shouldered pre-fit PVA is offering, vs a barrel nut system like the bugnut or the bighorn 12pt nut. The barloc looks cool, I just don't have a need to make barrel changes field expedient.

I'm planning to buy my chassis, trigger, barrel, scope, as my budget allows, and have everything ready to assemble by August/Sept when I hope my action gets here.

Just curious for the other guys waiting on an Origin, what route do you plan on going as far as attaching a barrel?

If it helps the decision any....

Barrel nut barrels and shouldered install barrels are just as repeatable as the other. The installation time is insignificantly different and without the BarLoc they both require some modicum of tools and a vise.

Since they're almost exactly the same price it's up to you. The shouldered barrels are $25 more from us, that price differential doesn't quite cover the GO gauge. My point being that in terms of performance, maintenance, ease of use it's basically a situation that the choice doesn't matter outside of aesthetics.

 

[hereinaz]

I have run Savages for 4 years, I like the barloc and ability to run savage barrels on them.

I have two Nucleus on order, but would run an Origin too.

 

[ZEROGUY]

If it helps the decision any....

Barrel nut barrels and shouldered install barrels are just as repeatable as the other. The installation time is insignificantly different and without the BarLoc they both require some modicum of tools and a vise.

Since they're almost exactly the same price it's up to you. The shouldered barrels are $25 more from us, that price differential doesn't quite cover the GO gauge. My point being that in terms of performance, maintenance, ease of use it's basically a situation that the choice doesn't matter outside of aesthetics.

Thanks for the reply, and yes that does help solidify my decision. I will be ordering a barrel from you soon. Now I just need to decide on what caliber...

 

[nrspence]

Can’t wait to shoot it. Serial number 00003