Binocular Question

[JMcBurn]

Went to my first match this weekend at K&M and got to use a bunch of other peoples binos at the match.

It left me realizing how much nicer it is to use binos for extended periods of time and spotting targets/misses versus a large spotter for general use (not looking at paper holes) especially from a stable tripod.

So looking into binos I have come across the Vortex Viper HD R/T 10x-50mm.

I like the idea of the Mil reticle, but am having some doubts on the usefulness of the reticle other than for spotting large misses. So the question is do I not go with the reticle (reticle not centered is a bit weird to me, but would probably get used to it) or do I just go with a pair of Viper HD or Razor HD standard Binos?

Any feedback on the usefulness of the reticle or in general reviews of the Viper HD 10x-50mm lineup would be greatly appreciated.

Also for more info, I typically use the Viper HD 20-60x spotter and really like the glass.

 

[Sheldon N]

I'd say you don't need a reticle for PRS matches. You're not calling corrections to anyone. Viper 10x42's are good, or if you have a bit more budget the Razor 10x42's or 12x50's are nice. I've seen the Razors sell used for very reasonable prices.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

There are excellent binoculars (no reticle) from Meopta, Athlon, Leupold to name a few, all under $500.00 that you would love using. Please feel free to give us a call to discuss which would be best for you

 

[JMcBurn]

I'd say you don't need a reticle for PRS matches. You're not calling corrections to anyone. Viper 10x42's are good, or if you have a bit more budget the Razor 10x42's or 12x50's are nice. I've seen the Razors sell used for very reasonable prices.

The only reason I am thinking Reticle is because I shoot these matches with people typically and know what they are holding. It would give me some sort of idea how much I need to change my holds.

 

[Sheldon N]

The only reason I am thinking Reticle is because I shoot these matches with people typically and know what they are holding. It would give me some sort of idea how much I need to change my holds.

If they'll tell you their opening hold, then they'll also tell you where they ended up at to actually get hits.

You get a feel pretty quick for it without a reticle anyway. Most targets are 0.4 to 0.6 mils wide, if you missed off the edge you're usually adding .2 or .3 to the hold. More often than not the wind is going to change on you by the time you get up to shoot anyway.

 

[R_Swanson]

IMO the Viper binos are easily outclassed by other options at their price point and cheaper. I think Vortex punches *below* their price point in regards to binoculars these days.

 

[JMcBurn]

IMO the Viper binos are easily outclassed by other options at their price point and cheaper. I think Vortex punches *below* their price point in regards to binoculars these days.

I went to Cabela's yesterday and looked through a pair and I agree. Compared it to the Razor 10x-42mm and it was like night and day.

Looking to stick in the Vortex family due to discount I get, so Probably just going to pick up a pair of Razor 10x-42mm or 10x-50mm.

 

[Fig]

I agree with binos for most PRS stages, and especially ones where the targets are spread out. That wide field of view is key when you've got them on a tripod.

However, I have a 1st gen, Jap, 80mm scope that is invaluable beyond 800 yds. I can clearly see the target, and not only see impacts a mile away, but see where they were on the steel (assuming there's still paint on it).

I roll with both, and now I'm using a $350 Hog Saddle as a bino holder (saw someone else doing it, and it works well) on the tripod, which is like buttering your bacon.

 

[JMcBurn]

I agree with binos for most PRS stages, and especially ones where the targets are spread out. That wide field of view is key when you've got them on a tripod.

However, I have a 1st gen, Jap, 80mm scope that is invaluable beyond 800 yds. I can clearly see the target, and not only see impacts a mile away, but see where they were on the steel (assuming there's still paint on it).

I roll with both, and now I'm using a $350 Hog Saddle as a bino holder (saw someone else doing it, and it works well) on the tripod, which is like buttering your bacon.

Also have a Viper HD 20-60x-80mm that works great for spotting impacts or looking at paper at distance. It works great, but packing it and carrying between stages would suck. Ill get plates for both setups to go on the same tripod.

 

[Fig]

At some matches with far apart stages and rough terrain, yes. At most matches the stages are close together, and you just fold the legs throw it on your shoulder and move over. I often end up donating it to the RO on long stages.

I hate having a huge ruck full of bags and gear, and would prefer to go light, but that's not this game. It could be a lot worse. You could be the guy hauling the Numero Uno bag at the match!

 

[flatland1]

I've looked through Vortex Kaibab 15x & 20X binos a couple of times over the years at matches, but never had any other comparable glass available at the same time to compare them to. They seemed pretty good at the time, but I never spent extended periods spotting through them, so can't comment on eye fatigue while using them. Was saving up Cabela's Club points towards the purchase of either the Kaibabs or Swaro 15x56 SLC, but have put off the purchase until I've had a chance to do a hands-on comparison.

ETA - Seems like I've seen an ad for an updated line of the Kaibabs recently - anyone had a chance to check them out?

 

[R_Swanson]

I've looked through Vortex Kaibab 15x & 20X binos a couple of times over the years at matches, but never had any other comparable glass available at the same time to compare them to. They seemed pretty good at the time, but I never spent extended periods spotting through them, so can't comment on eye fatigue while using them. Was saving up Cabela's Club points towards the purchase of either the Kaibabs or Swaro 15x56 SLC, but have put off the purchase until I've had a chance to do a hands-on comparison.

ETA - Seems like I've seen an ad for an updated line of the Kaibabs recently - anyone had a chance to check them out?

I havent seen the new Kaibabs, but the old ones are unspectacular and not worth the money IMO.

Cabelas Euro HD / Meopta Meostar (they are the same Binos, Cabelas rebrands them) are a big step up from the Kaibabs. Another option are the Maven B4's.

If you can get Razors for a very good price/used, thats fine. But I don't think Vortex beats out any of the other good choices in the bino/spotting scope game anymore.... regardless of price point.


The SLC's are sweet if you are willing to spend that. But they are 2x the street price of the Kaibabs and 1.5x the street price of the above mentioned options.

 

[JMcBurn]

I get ~50% off msrp on vortex, so $700 for razors 10-50 isnt bad for the quality of optic unless people car resteer me for <$500 for better glass.

I looked though some nice swaro glass at the K&M match last weekend and I feel like i am slightly skewed as I cant afford that type of glass.

 

[3-0-hate]

I compared the Razors, Swaros and Bushnell Legend Ms... I went home with the Legend M's.. They cost me a hell of a lot less than the other two would have, and the performance difference was marginal at best. The Swaros were the best, but the other two were very comparable. Difference in color temp from the difference in coatings, but detail in the bight light and shadows were almost to identical levels to my eyes. And if you are a first responder or current/former military, Bushnell will gladly let you pro-deal from them also. I think I paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 for mine.

 

[flatland1]

Personally, if I were looking for binoculars to spot with, it'd be one of the 15x models. I wouldn't count on being able to see bullet splash on steel much past 600yds with 10x, and to me, that's worth giving up FOV for the extra power of a 15x for. Understand, I'm not saying you can't see an impact at the instant of the impact at longer range with a 10x, but being able to resolve splashes on steel after the fact.

Leupold has a set of 15x56 BX-5 Santiums that have been on the market for a year or two - if they're at least as good as the Gold Ring 8x42s I bought 10+yrs ago on close-out for $600, I'd go with them. Need a trip to the Cabela's at KC to have a look at these binocs, compare them to 15x56 SLCs. B&H Photo & Cabela's have the Leupolds for $1400, and that's about the max amount I'm willing to spend.

 

[Sheldon N]

Leupold has a set of 15x56 BX-5 Santiums that have been on the market for a year or two - if they're at least as good as the Gold Ring 8x42s I bought 10+yrs ago on close-out for $600, I'd go with them. Need a trip to the Cabela's at KC to have a look at these binocs, compare them to 15x56 SLCs. B&H Photo & Cabela's have the Leupolds for $1400, and that's about the max amount I'm willing to spend.

I've had the Leupold 15's side by side with my Swaro 15x56 SLC HD. Everyone agreed that the Leupold's were very good, maybe 95% of the Swaro's. I was impressed with them.

 

[Carl_Ross]

Good to hear the Leupolds are solid, it’s nice to have quality options, and it’s pretty hard going backwards in glass once you’re used to the good stuff

I’ve been using 12x50 Meopta Meostar HD’s (the Cabelas version in my case) and love them. If I look through them all day, every other bino besides SLC’s becomes “meh” as a best case. I looked through some Maven B4 15’s in comparison and was definitely underwhelmed.

If you check frequently you can often find the Meopta’s used (12’s or 15’s) in the $1,000 range. Hope I get the chance to check out the Leupolds sometime.

 

[Forrest84]

I went with the luepy BX4 pro guid 12x, they are I bit heavy but at the $600 price point They are great. Glass/image is pretty damn good. I nearly went with the vortex but at double the price I’m glad I passed.

 

[flatland1]

Sheldon - Thanks for the heads-up on the Leupold 15x56! I've got an older Swaro 8x30 SLC, Vortex Viper HD 8x40, and Leupold Gold Ring 8x42HD binos to compare, and the Gold Ring Leupolds are at least as good as the SLCs in all but one catagory - what I call 'barrel distortion', only noticeable while panning across a scene. This isn't a totally fair comparison, as I've owned the Swaros since the late 1980s, while the Leupolds were new in 2006. However, with as good as the Leupolds are, I'm willing to give the BX5 Santium 15x56 glasses a try.

 

[RyanM]

I recently got some of the Meopta 15X and am very pleased with them. They are about 2/3s the price of the SLCs but are very nice.

 

[SScott]

Thanks to Sheldon’s posts I now have a pair of Swarovski SLC 15x56 with Outdoorsmans stud and tall tripod adapter. After years of packing my Leupold 12-40 spotting scope and only using it occasionally at matches, I shot my last match using a pair of Zen Ray 10x42 Binos. It was very convenient to find targets during the stage brief and to also watch the target splashes to pick a wind call prior to my turn to shoot. As good as it was, it left me wanting more power a few times.
Since I normally shoot Solo I decided against a reticle for now, for that I can always drag out the Lupy with TMR reticle, which isn’t near as bright as the Swaros, when tested side by side.
I also chose the 15x on a tripod, so I can pick up trace while viewing shooters and working on wind calls. Only time will tell, I’ll have to get out in the field to verify.
Scott