Night Vision Binos around $7k-8k Options

[Blackhalo]

Looking to get into the NV Game and looking for any help on the options I'm looking at.

At this price i'm more then likely looking into decent spec green tubes. I'm open to RNVGs but they aren't much cheaper compared to options I've found. Also considering Photonis Echo WP tubes, but I'd think the green options below would be a better value?

BNVD-51 22um-Unfilmed Green $7k (Don't think i'll go with these due to lack of feedback on the Armasight/Flir Housing)
DTNVGs 22um- Unfilmed Green $8k(Solid option but at the top of my budget)

BNVDs from JRH Thin filmed HP+ Green $7kish

Any opinions or any other options to look at it? JRH has YH grade tubes ready to go, and with a 10 year warranty i'm leaning that direction. I'm also planning to grab a COTI or possibly a china coti if I miss the current sale.

Thanks!

 

[WhereNow&How]

Looking to get into the NV Game and looking for any help on the options I'm looking at.

At this price i'm more then likely looking into decent spec green tubes. I'm open to RNVGs but they aren't much cheaper compared to options I've found. Also considering Photonis Echo WP tubes, but I'd think the green options below would be a better value?

BNVD-51 22um-Unfilmed Green $7k (Don't think i'll go with these due to lack of feedback on the Armasight/Flir Housing)
DTNVGs 22um- Unfilmed Green $8k(Solid option but at the top of my budget)

BNVDs from JRH Thin filmed HP+ Green $7kish

Any opinions or any other options to look at it? JRH has YH grade tubes ready to go, and with a 10 year warranty i'm leaning that direction. I'm also planning to grab a COTI or possibly a china coti if I miss the current sale.

Thanks!

Right now due to tube availability things getting more difficult.

Your best bet right now might be JRH BNVD's with the HP+ or they could put some nice Photonis Echo Tubes in them. I think currently JRH through NVD can source nice Echo Tubes pretty darn quick compared to other sources current lead times on any kind of tubes. Plus JRH has the COTI's so you could do a one stop shop get what you want.

Just remember, you snooze you lose in the current environment for NV-Thermal resources.

 

[Blackhalo]

Right now due to tube availability things getting more difficult.

Your best bet right now might be JRH BNVD's with the HP+ or they could put some nice Photonis Echo Tubes in them. I think currently JRH through NVD can source nice Echo Tubes pretty darn quick compared to other sources current lead times on any kind of tubes. Plus JRH has the COTI's so you could do a one stop shop get what you want.

Just remember, you snooze you lose in the current environment for NV-Thermal resources.

Nvi has the green 22 um unfilmed ready to go as well. Yes, I'll be purchasing something this week. But i'm OK waiting for better tube specs.

JRH has the GP HP+ currently in stock with YH Milspec tubes ready to go.

What's the take on higher spec GP vs. Photonis Echo WPs?

There is this optionhttps://readymaderesources.com/prod...-binocular-night-vision-articulating-housing/ I was skeptical on them. But I emailed NVD and they are an authorized retailer and will come with the same 10 year warranty.

 

[WhereNow&How]

What's the take on higher spec GP vs. Photonis Echo WPs?

There is this optionhttps://readymaderesources.com/prod...-binocular-night-vision-articulating-housing/ I was skeptical on them. But I emailed NVD and they are an authorized retailer and will come with the same 10 year warranty.

All around the high spec GP vs Photonis Echo's are both good units. The GP will typically do slightly better (not much) in really dark environments but the Echos will do better in higher ambient light and illuminator situations.

I would probably skip on readymaderesouces simply because the guy has put out some sketchy not true info in the past.

 

[Blackhalo]

All around the high spec GP vs Photonis Echo's are both good units. The GP will typically do slightly better (not much) in really dark environments but the Echos will do better in higher ambient light and illuminator situations.

I would probably skip on readymaderesouces simply because the guy has put out some sketchy not true info in the past.

That's what I'm hearing from different Vendors about the Echos in general. Regardless of GP or WP L3 tubes.

Yeah, I'll probably avoid the readymaderesources. Only reason I was considering them is NVD confirmed they are an authorized retailer.

 

[zinny]

The NV Inc. GP are filmless 22UM, GP isnt the flavor of the month anymore but I think theres no doubt filmless > thin filmed w.e. the screen color.

I've personally looked thru elbit thin filmed and l3 filmless WP tubes at the same time, both high spec 2500+ FOM tubes and to my eye the filmless is noticeably better. Is it 1-2 grand better/worth it, for me yes, but thats the question for you. I know your comparing photonis so not 100% relevant.

If you dont have a problem looking thru green and possibly being jived by the WP crowd, the dtnvg set is probably the way to go. Perfomance wise there no difference between is GP 22UM or WP 22 UM of the same spec.

 

[Blackhalo]

The NV Inc. GP are filmless 22UM, GP isnt the flavor of the month anymore but I think theres no doubt filmless > thin filmed w.e. the screen color.

I've personally looked thru elbit thin filmed and l3 filmless WP tubes at the same time, both high spec 2500+ FOM tubes and to my eye the filmless is noticeably better. Is it 1-2 grand better/worth it, for me yes, but thats the question for you. I know your comparing photonis so not 100% relevant.

If you dont have a problem looking thru green and possibly being jived by the WP crowd, the dtnvg set is probably the way to go. Perfomance wise there no difference between is GP 22UM or WP 22 UM of the same spec.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah money not being an issue I'd be grabbing Filmless WPs.

The pictures/videos I've seen comparing High spec'd Elbits vs L3 Filmless are a toss up. JRH has some posted and the Elbits look better to me. So guess it'll come down to the individual?

Will-1 Posted this comparison on Arfcom and I thought the GP Elbits did pretty damn good. https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Photonis-Echo-WP-vs-Harris-HP--GP-vs-L3-filmless-WP/18-498168/

 

[zinny]

Yeah I'd be in the opposite camp lol. Filmless is definitely more crisp to my eyes, the thin film tube I compared was a XLS. Both were similar in SNR and same lp/mm.

But yes from a marginal gains stand point, one tube is min a cool grand more than the other. So YMMV if its worth it to you.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah money not being an issue I'd be grabbing Filmless WPs.

The pictures/videos I've seen comparing High spec'd Elbits vs L3 Filmless are a toss up. JRH has some posted and the Elbits look better to me. So guess it'll come down to the individual?

Will-1 Posted this comparison on Arfcom and I thought the GP Elbits did pretty damn good. https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Photonis-Echo-WP-vs-Harris-HP--GP-vs-L3-filmless-WP/18-498168/

Yeah, once you get to good quality tube performance there is not a huge difference in performance really. In good ambient light they all work great.

In really dark environments, none of them work that great.

If the high Spec L3 filmless were really "supertubes", people would not be spending $2,600 plus on MAWLS for a strong illuminator.

Good screen cosmetics without a bunch of Blems is one of the more important things to me combined with Sure Shot SNB Filters to take out the scintillation.

NV to maneuver, Thermal For Detection, NV and 5X Magnifier plus Luna Elir -3 for positive ID at distance. MFAL or Thermal for shooting.

A clean 2000 FOM EBI Less than 1.00 with all other specs reasonable is a good unit.

 

[Blackhalo]

Yeah, once you get to good quality tube performance there is not a huge difference in performance really. In good ambient light they all work great.

In really dark environments, none of them work that great.

If the high Spec L3 filmless were really "supertubes", people would not be spending $2,600 plus on MAWLS for a strong illuminator.

Good screen cosmetics without a bunch of Blems is one of the more important things to me combined with Sure Shot SNB Filters to take out the scintillation.

NV to maneuver, Thermal For Detection, NV and 5X Magnifier plus Luna Elir -3 for positive ID at distance. MFAL or Thermal for shooting.

A clean 2000 FOM EBI Less than 1.00 with all other specs reasonable is a good unit.

Thanks for the help man.

Those SNB Filters look nice, think they would help on the GPs with possible eye fatigue. The pictures look more pleasing to the eye at least.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Thanks for the help man.

Those SNB Filters look nice, think they would help on the GPs with possible eye fatigue. The pictures look more pleasing to the eye at least.

They work well on everything. WP, GP, Thermal. Best dam filter I have seen out there yet. Well worth the $80 buck cost.

Yes they take a lot of eye fatigue away and preserve your natural night vision.

 

[TNVC_Will]

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah money not being an issue I'd be grabbing Filmless WPs.

The pictures/videos I've seen comparing High spec'd Elbits vs L3 Filmless are a toss up. JRH has some posted and the Elbits look better to me. So guess it'll come down to the individual?

Will-1 Posted this comparison on Arfcom and I thought the GP Elbits did pretty damn good. https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Photonis-Echo-WP-vs-Harris-HP--GP-vs-L3-filmless-WP/18-498168/

You're on the right track, it really comes down to your budget, and the specs. Thin filmed tubes & Echo's with great specs can hold their own pretty good however similar spec filmless is better. You have to see it with your eyeballs against thin filmed side by side to really see the difference because pics/vids can only show so much. The filmless will have more clarity and that's in all conditions not just in low light.

If you can't see something in the shadows with thin filmed, chances are you probably won't see it with filmless either, but....you have a better chance of seeing it or at least making out that something is there and investigating/observing further and/or using IR on it. Filmless will give you that extra edge that can make the difference between seeing or not seeing something when you are passive and not using IR. Use IR and that edge is a moot point. That may or may not be important or relevant to you.

I won't get into the weeds with all of the specs. There are plenty of threads with opinions on which specs are important/not important but IMO you most definitely want a high signal to noise ratio (as far above 30 as you can get) coupled with low EBI (as far below 0.1 as you can) because it'll make a difference in low light without supplemental IR.

 

[WhereNow&How]

A COTI on any NV will let you see the important stuff like live critters way better than the highest spec L3 filmless.

Point being I would rather spend money on lower priced 2000 FOM Solid tube and slap a COTI on it than spend a pile on some super high spec L3 filmless without a COTI cause I blew my budget.

In for about the same MONIE but see 90% more live critters.

 

[TNVC_Will]

WhereNow&How is right. Thermal is superior for detection. Could be a COTI, handheld, head mount, etc. It really comes down to your budget & your needs. Personally, the thought of adding more weight to my goggles/head with the COTI vs the return for my needs/uses is a no-go. I barely use thermal as it is now. Everybody's different. Hell, there are guys who never or rarely use NV after getting thermal. Unfortunately, it takes time and money to figure out what works for you. Or friends with gear that you can borrow, lol.

What are you going to be using your NV for? Not sure if you got that out of the way yet?

IMO, the most important thing in any goggle is to have the best performing tubes you can afford. That could mean filmless, thin filmed YH/SLH, XLSH, Photonis Echo, or old used Omni IV. Factor in the helmet, mount, and all of that other stuff besides the NV.

I'm not trying sell you on filmless or steer you a certain direction. I've used and owned Echos (from JRH actually) and thin filmed Elbit/old Harris/Exelis/ITT tubes. They're awesome tubes but filmless with equal or better specs is better. Not necessarily night and day better but they are better. It is what it is. Out of your original post question between NVD HP+ spec (aka Elbit SLH/SLG) and L3Harris 22UM filmless GP, the 22UM filmless will be better performing PROVIDED that they have good specs at least equal to or better than the Elbit SLH/SLG. Ask NVI if the tubes are on the shelf with sheets and for the specs so you compare.

The housing is secondary although important. I wouldn't take the BNVD-40/51 mainly due to the optics and that's another thing - make sure whichever system you buy that you get Carson or L3 optics. There are sellers (big name and no name) supplying devices with inferior optics. The fish eye at the edges and light artifacts are unacceptable IMO.

 

[Blackhalo]

Any other options/opinions would be appreciated.

 

[RyanScott]

RNVGs would save 1-1.2k over DTNVGs.