Looking to change the trigger in my Bergara B14 (Rem 700 clone). I've got it down to one of these two. Looking for thoughts from those who have used them.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
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Bix n Andy Bix’n Andy TacSport PRO or Trigger Tech Diamond
- Thread starter Jake the dog
- Start date
i never used a DT but ive been shooting 2 stage B&A tac sports for 2-3yrs in 3 rifles and have never had an issue...that said a guy i shoot with bought one and one of the adjustment screws was stripped or maybe never threaded...bullet central emailed a return label and 2dayed him a new trigger.
BnA.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - the single best gear related decision I've made in this hobby is swapping from a single stage TT to a two stage BnA Tacsport.
The extra trigger control you get with a 2 stage trigger is pretty understated. The BnA is nice and crisp, with great adjustability. Besides having the ability to completely tailor the trigger to you, you can tailor it to the gun with the different sear heights available as well as the sear engagement. This can have a dramatic effect on how your bolt action feels.
Myself and a friend both have Mausingfields purchased from the same gunsmith of the same vintage. His has a Huber, mine has a BnA Tacsport. My Mausingfield feels world's better than his - and I think the biggest factor is how the trigger is mated to the action. His bolt lift and close is considerably heavier than mine. It's a bit surprising how big of a difference there is. My Mausingfield feels better than almost any other action I've handled (which is a lot). With my BnA, I was able to get the correct sear engagement to suit the bolt action, they're a perfect pair.
While the TT is adjustable, to my knowledge the sear engagement is not adjustable on it. And I don't believe the TT 2 stage is going to offer that feature.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - the single best gear related decision I've made in this hobby is swapping from a single stage TT to a two stage BnA Tacsport.
The extra trigger control you get with a 2 stage trigger is pretty understated. The BnA is nice and crisp, with great adjustability. Besides having the ability to completely tailor the trigger to you, you can tailor it to the gun with the different sear heights available as well as the sear engagement. This can have a dramatic effect on how your bolt action feels.
Myself and a friend both have Mausingfields purchased from the same gunsmith of the same vintage. His has a Huber, mine has a BnA Tacsport. My Mausingfield feels world's better than his - and I think the biggest factor is how the trigger is mated to the action. His bolt lift and close is considerably heavier than mine. It's a bit surprising how big of a difference there is. My Mausingfield feels better than almost any other action I've handled (which is a lot). With my BnA, I was able to get the correct sear engagement to suit the bolt action, they're a perfect pair.
While the TT is adjustable, to my knowledge the sear engagement is not adjustable on it. And I don't believe the TT 2 stage is going to offer that feature.
I got to play with a TT diamond yesterday.
Absolutely amazing feel and break but the hard wall after the break is a deal breaker for me.
Hopefully the two stage version doesn’t have that as well.
Someday I’ll get to fondle a BnA.
Absolutely amazing feel and break but the hard wall after the break is a deal breaker for me.
Hopefully the two stage version doesn’t have that as well.
Someday I’ll get to fondle a BnA.
if you do your kids wont be going to collage LOL!
No kids and the cat doesn’t bitch me out for my spending as long as the bowl has food in it.
I also do not like the overtravel / hard wall as you put it. Jewell, Bix, and even the Tubb trigger has some resistance after the sear breaks. That said, with some practice I have been able to use the trigger tech without issues.
I have both, as well as other models from both companies. I will not buy another TT unless BNA does not have one for the action that the trigger is going in. Having said that, I do buy TT as the second option.
The TSPro has yet to feel gritty, even when having 20+ mph wind blowing dirt directly in to the action.
The TSPro has yet to feel gritty, even when having 20+ mph wind blowing dirt directly in to the action.
I have the same experience with my Mausingfield. It is so slick and smooth and the bolt lift is very light and the bolt feels like it closes itself. Never had any other trigger in it for comparison but it run as good to me as my impact
I was leaning toward the BnA before I posted my question. It's nice to know my instincts are good. Thanks to everyone who answered. There is a Pro 2 stage in my immediate future.
Now what will I blame those fliers on?
Now what will I blame those fliers on?
The gator shoe is my favorite thus far. If you like a wide curve, that thing is money.
You absolutely won’t regret a Bix’n Andy. The Tac Sport Pro is worth the up charge over the Tac Sport definitely. Hand polished sears and a lighter weight make a difference. In my opinion, having the ability to adjust everything including first and second stage weight, length of pull, and most importantly sear engagement is critical. That’s something Trigger Tech doesn’t offer you.
I have the BnA Tacsport two stage. It breaks real clean and predictable. Light years better than my Timney CE. Great trigger. It is also easy to disassemble and clean. Not sure about the TT.
Bang
Bang
Came off a Timney CE to the TT Diamond and have to say the diamond is a great piece of kit. No creep it just goes. Never used Bix n Andy
Ive never even seen a tt diamond but have never read anything but good about them. I think ttd is probably easier to adjust but i think b n a has more ways to adj, first stage weight and length of pull back to 2 nd stage. weight of pull of 2nd stage. Where the trigger is on the rifle, about 5/8” adjustment. mine is all the way back. It will also swivel on the round bar. I had to cut a little off my first stage spring to get it down to 1.4 oz, 2nd is 1,6 for a total of 3 oz, mine will vary about 1/2 oz. The varriance vould be the way i measure it.
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I used a TT diamond most of this season. A few months ago I decided i wanted to try a BnA tacsport pro because I knew 2-3 guys running them that really liked them. I bought it, put it on my action and dry fired with it for a few evenings before changing any settings. I loved it. I used to run a Timney CE 2 stage and i really did miss having a two stage trigger.
I decided to adjust the stage pulls a little bit on the BnA. First I tightened up the first stage, then went to work on dropping the 2nd stage down just a few oz. following the instructions and adjusting the sear engagement after adjusting pull weight. ** at the same time, i had just cleaned the rifle/action **
I started getting dead trigger every couple dry fires. okay, so I didn't have it tune quite right, kept messing with it. after hours of not getting the trigger to work i finally took it apart and realized some cleaning solution must have made it's way down into the trigger. so i took it all apart and cleaned and dried all the internals. Re checked all the adjustments and got it working during dry fire.
then i went outside to shoot it. dead trigger every couple shots. went back inside and re checked sear engagement. shot some more - no issues.
shot two matches (dry weather) - no issues. loving it!
then i shot a rainy morning match at the SE finale - dead trigger 3 stages in a row at the beginning of the match. one of the times the trigger was dead, i went to recock the bolt and the sear dropped and the gun went off (still on target thankfully). So I packed up my stuff and went home. The gun would dry fire fine, but as soon as i put a mag in and went to go shoot the damn thing, it wouldn't work. it made no sense.
i called BC and told them all my issues. they ensured me there was nothing wrong with the trigger, i just didn't have it tuned properly. which is probably correct. so i'm just going to admit maybe i'm too stupid to own a BnA. but if a 16th of a turn on a tiny set screw or a little bit of moisture is the difference between a dead/dangerous trigger then count me out. that's just my personal story with a BnA. i know a lot of guys who run them with no problems, and i've also seen/heard of a handful going down mid-match just like mine.
i'm back to a TT diamond
I decided to adjust the stage pulls a little bit on the BnA. First I tightened up the first stage, then went to work on dropping the 2nd stage down just a few oz. following the instructions and adjusting the sear engagement after adjusting pull weight. ** at the same time, i had just cleaned the rifle/action **
I started getting dead trigger every couple dry fires. okay, so I didn't have it tune quite right, kept messing with it. after hours of not getting the trigger to work i finally took it apart and realized some cleaning solution must have made it's way down into the trigger. so i took it all apart and cleaned and dried all the internals. Re checked all the adjustments and got it working during dry fire.
then i went outside to shoot it. dead trigger every couple shots. went back inside and re checked sear engagement. shot some more - no issues.
shot two matches (dry weather) - no issues. loving it!
then i shot a rainy morning match at the SE finale - dead trigger 3 stages in a row at the beginning of the match. one of the times the trigger was dead, i went to recock the bolt and the sear dropped and the gun went off (still on target thankfully). So I packed up my stuff and went home. The gun would dry fire fine, but as soon as i put a mag in and went to go shoot the damn thing, it wouldn't work. it made no sense.
i called BC and told them all my issues. they ensured me there was nothing wrong with the trigger, i just didn't have it tuned properly. which is probably correct. so i'm just going to admit maybe i'm too stupid to own a BnA. but if a 16th of a turn on a tiny set screw or a little bit of moisture is the difference between a dead/dangerous trigger then count me out. that's just my personal story with a BnA. i know a lot of guys who run them with no problems, and i've also seen/heard of a handful going down mid-match just like mine.
i'm back to a TT diamond
There is a place on one set of instructions where bna has 1&2 nd stage backwards . When they were walking me thru adjustment we found it. They sent me lighter springs and new instructions. Also after any adjustment, the final adjustment should be sear adjustment . last paragraph.
It is complicated to me and i had to cut a round off of a spring.
But now its the best trigger ive ever seen!
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Good catch there. I mean i had the trigger apart, i knew which set screws were for which stage adjustment so i don't think that was an issue. and yes - i always adjusted sear engagement after any change to the other settings. but i guess i could never get it quite right.
no, the sear at the top of the trigger has nothing to do with the internal sear adjustment (direct words from BC). i told him i was running a medium sear, but per my measurements i should be running a low sear, but none in stock for weeks. but he ensured me that is not the issue and that would not cause me problems.
it wasn't like i was running too low of a top sear when i should have been running a higher one.
This was luke's reponse:
"We should look at bottom and top sears as completely separate things, they are like Mars and Pluto and have no relation. The problems that will arise with a top sear issues, will always be there from the start. If the top sear doesn’t have enough clearance it will drag on the cocking piece and you will have ignition issues. The other end you would have not enough contact and the cocking piece will jump over the top sear.
They this, go in and give the purple set screw half a turn clockwise, then reset your bottom sear engagement."
so he basically told me - increase the pull weight for your 2nd stage and try again.
"We should look at bottom and top sears as completely separate things, they are like Mars and Pluto and have no relation. The problems that will arise with a top sear issues, will always be there from the start. If the top sear doesn’t have enough clearance it will drag on the cocking piece and you will have ignition issues. The other end you would have not enough contact and the cocking piece will jump over the top sear.
They this, go in and give the purple set screw half a turn clockwise, then reset your bottom sear engagement."
so he basically told me - increase the pull weight for your 2nd stage and try again.
but you say when you close the bolt the pin would drop...both mine are set at 8oz and have never bolt fired and have never been cleaned in 4yrs.
that happened one time.
it wasn't a persistent issue. like Luke said - if it was a top sear issue - the issue would have been present from the beginning.
Trust me, i was hoping it was because i was using the a medium sear instead of a low sear. i wanted the issue to be fixed easily so i could continue to use it. but he said that wasn't the issue at all.
my first BnA i had to play with for hours to get right second one just adjust the pull weight and done...they take some tuning to get right.
yeah I understand that. but i don't have patience for that. i just want a trigger that works regardless. i don't want to have to worry about tuning a tiny set screw a 1/16th of a turn and hoping when i got to live fire it, it works. too finicky for my liking.
i get it im the same way with most things ive just had the best like with BnA...ive shot jewel and timney CE and they both jammed with in 6mos.
One of the big advantages of the BnA is that once it's tuned right, not only is it a great trigger but it can make the action feel a lot better, as you can essentially time it yourself to the action. The TT trigger I put in the TL3 I owned for a brief moment in time made that action feel like complete dog shit.
I did not have any issues adjusting my trigger, took a little playing around with it and figuring out how it all works out and getting the correct adjustments, and every trigger after that first one has been a ~5 min setup time. For those that want a direct plug and play with no patience to adjust things, the BnA may not be for them. But the efforts are rewarded big time in my mind and from my experience. I have 3 of them now and using them with great success.
Sorry to hear your experience hasn't been the same.
The thread is about the TacSport Pro, not the Benchrest that you have. The TSP does not use a rail for the shoe - you need to open up the trigger to replace it, and you don't replace the springs to get to different pull weight groups.
Bix for the win. Tt is nice and crisp but you gotta be consistant in your follow through a tick more. With that back wall.
All the arc actions need low sears and that's directly from going into and taking to the bix guys
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Watched a guy ND on bolt close twice with a bixAndy. It was low to medium dirty/dusty conditions and we flushed it with lighter fluid.
After seeing that happen, I wouldn't own one. He replaced it with a Triggertech.
After seeing that happen, I wouldn't own one. He replaced it with a Triggertech.
What was his trigger weight set at? I wonder if he was running a really low trigger weight, and/or didn't properly set the sear engagement properly.
One of the great things about the BnA is all the trigger adjustments you can make. One of the bad things is all the trigger adjustments you can make - the end user can certainly create conditions that aren't always safe if they don't adjust it properly.
I don't know the full context of that situation, or how the trigger was setup. I'm not sure if it's fair to blame the trigger. TT's are pretty idiot proof, the user doesn't have as much opportunity to dick it up. But they also don't have the opportunity to optimize the trigger to action interface.
If you're not a tweaker or care to spend the time to optimize your trigger to action interface, and just want to "plug and play", then TT is arguably a better setup. If you do want to optimize, the BnA offers more options for the end user to do so.
Swapping from a TT to a BnA was the single best gear decision I've made. Part of that was going from single stage to a two stage trigger.
I recognize that the BnA is not for everyone, I'm glad that we get to have the choice between these excellent triggers.
Have both the TT diamond and B@A Tacsport pro both single stage. Difficult to put into words the difference in feel and I have way more time behind my TT triggers than my one B@A trigger.
The diamond: You squeze the trigger, it breaks clean and comes to a abrupt stop. You feel the glass snap nothing else no creep nothing, you then hit the over travel stop and your done.
The Tacsport pro: You squeeze the trigger, it breaks except the break is different there is no glass break, its like you just had the ground pulled out of
from under you. The trigger then goes into what I would call a reverse second stage, the firing pin dropped but the trigger does not have a hard stop it keeps moving rearward into a spring buffer.
Cant say which one I like better, my only bitch on the B@A trigger is the blade is way too narrow, but wont be getting rid of either one.
The diamond: You squeze the trigger, it breaks clean and comes to a abrupt stop. You feel the glass snap nothing else no creep nothing, you then hit the over travel stop and your done.
The Tacsport pro: You squeeze the trigger, it breaks except the break is different there is no glass break, its like you just had the ground pulled out of
from under you. The trigger then goes into what I would call a reverse second stage, the firing pin dropped but the trigger does not have a hard stop it keeps moving rearward into a spring buffer.
Cant say which one I like better, my only bitch on the B@A trigger is the blade is way too narrow, but wont be getting rid of either one.
i dont know his trigger weight. he was not a tweaking type guy. he had the gun built for him and i know for certain he didnt touch the trigger after his smith was done with it.
after we flushed the trigger out, he kept shooting the rest of the afternoon with no more issues.
so yes, id blame the trigger in that it got dirt into it and would not perform, and actually was an unsafe condition. He shot the TT the next 3 days and never had an issue in the exact same environmental conditions.
im not saying the BnA is not a good trigger, im not saying people shouldnt use it. but i witnessed something happen to it in conditions that i normally encounter and i will not own one because of it. YMMV.
Reliving this asking if someone has some first hand experience with the Tac sport pro 2 stage and BH TL3 action. The sear engagement apparently left me in the middle of a match like happened to @hookedonbrass
Old thread, but the bolded part is exactly what I'm looking for. But it's also what I already have with my Jewell except for the ground pulled out from under you part. But that actually sounds like exactly what would make one trigger more accurate than another. You want to be surprised by the shot, no? Don't want to anticipate. So if the break is like someone pulling a chair out from under you, that's a good thing.
TT Diamon... zero over travel sounds bad for me. That's what I like about the Jewell. Dwell time is important. Need that bullet to leave the gun before your finger hits an over travel wall.
That's the biggest difference. Once a TT breaks, you know it, you finger comes to a dead stop. The BNA just keeps coming rearward through the overtravel, its quite nice, zero affect on squeeze and follow through. All my builds will have a BNA from now on, but I'm not gonna pull all my TT and swap em out.
I also prefer to have some over travel versus an abrupt wall.
My only experience with two stage triggers is on a Hiperfire XP3 I think it's called on my gasser. I'm currently stepping into the bolt world and have a TS Pro on the way for my Archimedes. When y'all say there is no wall after the break, which the Hiperfire definitely has, is it like a reverse first stage?
I'm not too concerned since I have no preference currently, it's a whole new platform. I'm just curious how that works without a stop if that makes sense.
I'm not too concerned since I have no preference currently, it's a whole new platform. I'm just curious how that works without a stop if that makes sense.
I tried putting a ts pro on my Archimedes, it was horrible with the standard sear height, believe you'll need a low sear. I just put my spare TT special in, no issues. Check sear height prior to avoid my observed issues. Bolt lift was horrid, trigger weight was insane. Tried adjusting the trigger to tune it with no solution.
I have a low sear coming with it. I've seen multiple references to needing it. If it happens to fall in between, i'm not against fitting the middle one if necessary. I doubt I'll be disappointed, only fired a few bolt guns before and it was a very, very enjoyable experience compared to a gas gun.
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