Night Vision Black spots in new PVS-14 tube

[Poet]

Greetings,
I am new to this forum. Hope someone can give me some advise. It is actually for a good friend of mine.
He bought a new PVS-14 gen3 white phosphor from a vendor on ebay. The unit has about 7 noticeable black dots/specks just off the center (see pic). They are not huge but they do distract the eye when searching for wildlife, creating false "movement".
The seller (company) says that this is normal, and that this tube is actually considered very clean. I have never heard of brand new quality optics arriving with specs. The unit was about 3G. Not cheap. The seller has offered to replace the tube, but said that the replacement may be same or even worse as this is how they come.
Would appreciate any advise.
Best
P

 

[Strykervet]

The dots are mentioned somewhere in the specs as I recall, but it's been a while since I looked. Black specs are a "thing" though, even with new ones. If they're in the center or too big or too many they don't pass but I don't know how bad "bad" is. This is for milspec, it may be in the Omni 7 or Omni 8 info. I think that's on Wikipedia? They could be right, but there are reputable dealers on here that have looked through more than I have that will probably weigh in eventually. And a few users with a shit ton of different NODs too. Omni 8 did loosen specs (this was years ago) so not as many tubes got rejected but I don't know if it included the black specs or just FOM numbers or what.

I wanna say the stuff we had in the army was cleaner, but it's been a while. They'd have been new ITT Omni 7 thin film models, so built in a clean room, but other than that nothing special. I know the one I have is super clean, thin film, I got a hand select ITT Omni7 unit from TNVC a few years ago and it's the best green 14 I've ever seen by quite a bit. That one's flawless. A used military buyback PVS 30 I got has a relatively low FOM rating and Harris tube but the image is clear and it may have few pin pricks way to the peripheral but it's not really noticeable.

Maybe I've just been lucky with the dots. I don't know what causes 'em on new units but on older ones it's from light burning in the image for one reason or another.

I'd look up those specs and see if you can't find the info on those dots. It's there somewhere and specifically mentions what you're talking about.

 

[Rerun7]

Gotta do your research on these things before you buy them.

Black spots are common from my understanding, it’s a matter of finding the cleanest tube possible and where they are in the image. However, I wouldn’t consider this tube “very clean”.

If you get the tube replaced ask for pics through the new tube so you can see if there are spots. Also realize the cleanest tubes are going to cost more.

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

I don't have any experience with the white phosphor tubes but blems are normal with intensifiers and graded/rated by the number and size. Not sure what your friend paid for, but my experience is that you get used to them after a while and they're not really a distraction.

 

[TheGerman]

Is it normal? Yes

Is it 'very clean'? No; but only because they are clustered together. If they were spread out, I wouldn't even care.

There is a chart somewhere for acceptable sizes of spotting dependent on where in the tube there are. While I obviously am not looking through your tube, your picture doesn't show any that would exceed the size limit. I can see how it would be obnoxious as fuck though; I'd get another tube and tell the vendor that unless he wants to play an endless round of hot potato, he should inspect the replacement tube and send a less shitty one.

You/your friend need to also realize that a flawless tube is not very common at all.

 

[Poet]

Thank you all for your replies. This is what the vendor said:

"Those are so small and inconsequential, they aren’t even considered blems, those are micro specks and up to 9 of those are allowed by the manufacturer , 3 75-150 micrometer in zone 3 , 2 75-150 micrometer in zone 2 , 1 75-150 micrometer in zone 1 , 2 150-230 micrometer in zone 3, 1 150-230 micrometer in zone 2.​

We picked a very clean tube with MICRO specks for you, the cleanest out of the batch of 5-6 PVS-14’s we were building . It’s kind of insulting really.
If they bother you that much, send the mono back with data sheet and we will look for another tube and replace that tube in the unit, how ever we cannot guarantee they same specifications as that was a nice unit and a replacement may have a bigger spot as micro specks and a couple spots are allowable as they are an inherent part of the manufacture of image tubes and a crystal clear high spec tube cost more than you paid for a whole built unit."​

The unit cost 3,000$

So I guess you recommend sending it back and taking the chance that the next one will be better?

P

 

[NighthawkCG]

I'm not sure if we can compare US tube specs to non-US. The spec sheets I have seen are in imperial units and english only. The one you have up is metric and in other languages...

 

[sgtsmmiii]

It’s kind of insulting really.[/B] If they bother you that much, send the mono back with data sheet and we will look for another tube and replace that tube in the unit, how ever we cannot guarantee they same specifications as that was a nice unit and a replacement may have a bigger spot as micro specks and a couple spots are allowable as they are an inherent part of the manufacture of image tubes and a crystal clear high spec tube cost more than you paid for a whole built unit."

Well, with that kind of shitty attitude, I'd reply that what's really insulting is spending $3000 of my hard earned money on a tube with all of the defects in the central portion of the viewing area. I'd send it back and ask for a refund. There are other players whose names are mentioned on here that would probably provide a better product and guaranteed better customer service.

With that said, one of my NOD's has a pretty good sized black spot in the upper right. When I'm out in the field, I never notice it. My second unit is beautiful and spot free. Both from the same vendor.

 

[MK20]

All the mil nods I have looked through that are white phosphor were VERY clean. And I have looked through a lot of sets. Tubes are manufactured and then graded as to quality. It sounds like the retailer you bought from isn’t using the best tubes on the market. If I were you I would try to return them and then make sure that you buy from a reputable dealer who uses the best tubes. It is really not worth saving a couple hundred on this kind of stuff to end up with sub par tubes.

 

[MK20]

@sgtsmmiii , the spots around the edges are normal and in spec. The spots in the center of the tube are indicative of a lower grade tube that is being used and then the unit is being sold for full price or near there.

 

[MK20]

TNVC has filmless Omni 8 US mil spec white phosphor pvs 14 sets with L3 tubes for 3750 to 4K. I would wait until Black Friday to see if they have a deal and pick a set up from them.
So that line about a premium tube costing more than 3k is likely bullshit.

 

[tschiemer]

Note the OP has one post and based on the content likely is not in the U. S.

Possibly commercial practices commercial tubes are totally different than in the U.S.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

that looks like dirt artifacts on the screen. doesnt look like tube blems to me.

 

[McCrazy]

I can understand the vendor being insulted that someone isn't satisfied with his "best" product attempt. That doesn't change the fact that their best attempt with their best tubes has a significant amount of flaws in it.

If it were my money, I would return the NVG to them for a refund and go purchase from someone who puts out a better product with less attitude.

 

[Poet]

Thank you all once again for your comments. The vendor says he will replace the tube by a cleaner one, so I guess we'll wait and see.
P

 

[Strykervet]

Thank you all once again for your comments. The vendor says he will replace the tube by a cleaner one, so I guess we'll wait and see.
P

So after everyone chiming in, I'd do that and make sure to let him know that one will be coming back too if it's not significantly better.

I'm not sure if we can compare US tube specs to non-US. The spec sheets I have seen are in imperial units and english only. The one you have up is metric and in other languages...

If this is true and it's non-US tube or a US tube sold to a foreign country, then the specs on that could be anything and what I mentioned doesn't apply. That's only US milspec, Omni7 or 8. IMO I feel the image looks dirty, in particular to what I've used, but that chart is what you have to go by.

I sorta get that the vendor or dealer knows there's a problem based on how he came off to you. Quality dealers don't do that. TNVC doesn't. I'm wondering if he got inexpensive tubes, knowing it, and is trying to sell 'em off and having some problems with people complaining.

I'd ask for pictures before he sends it if possible. If it comes fucked up same or worse, just get a refund and go elsewhere (or go ahead and do that now). If you have access to US shit, then TNVC is who you need to deal with. If you can't deal with TNVC, they may still be worth a call, they may know someone reputable where you are.

Good luck!

PS: Here's a set for sale on here, $4000 and comes with a full power PEQ15 too! Take a good look at the image. That's what most WP tubes tend to look like. https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/wts-l3-wp-pvs14-peq-cheap.6913042/ If you can get a refund and get this, just do that and be done with it. That's $2500 for the 14 if you wanna consider $1500 on the PEQ (but they can go for more sometimes too). Hell, I sorta wish I could snag this deal.

 

[TAHK]

I bought one from TNVC before, it has a spot. I know its normal, but just didn't like it, so I returned it

 

[tschiemer]

Me too. I bought a new PVS-14 years ago from major company and it had 3 dark spots and they let me return it; I called them within 5 minutes of the arrival, checking in a bathroom w no light in an inner hallway.

 

[Terry Cross]

I have heard that L3 was just awarded a really large contract for WP tubes to go into an ass load of PVS31s which would make decent grade WP tubes tough to get for at least a couple of years that would be sourced through L3. Possibly Photonis or others can step it up. Either way, if what I heard is true, the market for anything with WP tubes may be tough for a bit.

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

I have heard that L3 was just awarded a really large contract for WP tubes to go into an ass load of PVS31s which would make decent grade WP tubes tough to get for at least a couple of years that would be sourced through L3. Possibly Photonis or others can step it up. Either way, if what I heard is true, the market for anything with WP tubes may be tough for a bit.

Unfortunately you are spot on. I am already seeing this. I had 25 UA tubes coming in last month that got pushed back all the way to March and to be honest I don’t see that happening either. The ones that are available are about to be extremely expensive I bet.

Jay

 

[roamin]

Damn that's not a good tube at ALL.

 

[primer]

My green unit from TNVC has one small dark spot, in the upper left field of view. It bugged me at first, but in actual use I've learned to ignore it. For some reason it doesnt seem as obvious now since I put in an amber filter.

 

[Sogan]

Thank you all once again for your comments. The vendor says he will replace the tube by a cleaner one, so I guess we'll wait and see.
P

Let us know how this ends up

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

I see the spot nazis are here lol

That might be the best tube in human existence. I’ve seen people turn their nose up about a 72lp 37snr tube because it has a 5x5 spot in zone 3. There is so many people walking around out there with clean tubes with very low specs claiming they got a super duper hand select tube from nasa just because it doesn’t have a spot.

Continue on
Jay

 

[Dev L]

$3000 white phosphor PVS 14 with 3 small specs? Sounds about right. You could get no specs if you paid $1000 more.