Blackwater/XE Sniper School
- Thread starter nyrifle
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Re: Blackwater/XE Sniper School
bump: Id be interested in hearing too. I just took their carbine operators course and it was excellent!
bump: Id be interested in hearing too. I just took their carbine operators course and it was excellent!
Re: Blackwater/XE Sniper School
Go to Rifles Only(Texas) you will learn alot.Blackwater has a good range, but it's "POT LUCK" as to who will be the instructor.
Go to Rifles Only(Texas) you will learn alot.Blackwater has a good range, but it's "POT LUCK" as to who will be the instructor.
Re: Blackwater/XE Sniper School
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: prbulldog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's "POT LUCK" as to who will be the instructor.</div></div>Not really. If you've been there before then call them, they'll tell you. Talk to Bill.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: prbulldog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's "POT LUCK" as to who will be the instructor.</div></div>Not really. If you've been there before then call them, they'll tell you. Talk to Bill.
Re: Blackwater/XE Sniper School
SSGT G was there in 08. He stayed for the entire course and helped bring the slower students up to speed by holding catch-up sessions after hours on his own time. He's a hell of a guy, and a team player. Not many would spend their own unpaid free time doing that.
SSGT G was there in 08. He stayed for the entire course and helped bring the slower students up to speed by holding catch-up sessions after hours on his own time. He's a hell of a guy, and a team player. Not many would spend their own unpaid free time doing that.
Re: Blackwater/XE Sniper School
I thought they dropped situational sniper? I took sniper 1 a couple years ago and really enjoyed it, but I learned alot more at Rifles Only. Teacher student ratio was also much better (RO 2 to 5 BW 2 to 13).
I thought they dropped situational sniper? I took sniper 1 a couple years ago and really enjoyed it, but I learned alot more at Rifles Only. Teacher student ratio was also much better (RO 2 to 5 BW 2 to 13).
Re: Blackwater/XE Sniper School
The biggest thing going against Blackwater/Xe is that they have hit a point where you stop paying for instruction and start paying for the name.
I am not saying you won't learn anything but like stated before it is a toss up who the instructor will be, the instructor to student ratio is poor. Now when you pay your tuition you are paying for the name on your certificate.
I am very pro Rifle's Only. I train there and I help out with classes from time to time. The first time I went to RO back in 04 I recall we were at the end of the official training day and Jacob announced that anyone who wanted to leave could and anyone who wanted to stay and work on something could. A few of us elected to work on a number of skills for the next hour or two. That spoke volumes. That isn't the only example; on numerous occasions official training will be done and someone who needs extra help will get it if they ask.
Not trying to bash Blackwater/Xe, just take a closer look at the provider. A big company doesn't always deliver.
The biggest thing going against Blackwater/Xe is that they have hit a point where you stop paying for instruction and start paying for the name.
I am not saying you won't learn anything but like stated before it is a toss up who the instructor will be, the instructor to student ratio is poor. Now when you pay your tuition you are paying for the name on your certificate.
I am very pro Rifle's Only. I train there and I help out with classes from time to time. The first time I went to RO back in 04 I recall we were at the end of the official training day and Jacob announced that anyone who wanted to leave could and anyone who wanted to stay and work on something could. A few of us elected to work on a number of skills for the next hour or two. That spoke volumes. That isn't the only example; on numerous occasions official training will be done and someone who needs extra help will get it if they ask.
Not trying to bash Blackwater/Xe, just take a closer look at the provider. A big company doesn't always deliver.
Re: Blackwater/XE Sniper School
CB,
I, too, prefer RO. And I'm saying that truthfully, not to please anyone on this site.
That said, the post 'Chandler' program at Blackwater is excellent. For me, the instructor to student ratio happened to be better at Blackwater and the cost of the Blackwater course would have been only a few hundred bucks more.
At Blackwater we had five instructors to fifteen students (they over-sold the class): One lead, one assistant, and three helpers. The lead was a former leader of a militay sniper team. The assistant and helpers were all active military snipers. The tactics were spot-on and the level of current experience in sniper-stuff other than shooting was high. All the instructors were nice guys and very professional.
At RO we had Jacob and Frank; with Stan, Lindy, and Pete dropping in for a day or so each to help. No question that every instructor at RO knew the material, and the shooting craft, better than any instructor at Blackwater. I corrected them at Blackwater when they taught that a circle has 6400 Mils and one Mil is 3.375 MOA. To their credit, they all took it very well.
The difference is that the instructors at RO analyze your shooting, spot problems, and provide solutions for better marksmanship - they did it for us regularly. I became a better shooter overnight, each night. I have yet to find another rifle course that can do that, never mind one that attempts to do it instead of simply taking your money.
CB,
I, too, prefer RO. And I'm saying that truthfully, not to please anyone on this site.
That said, the post 'Chandler' program at Blackwater is excellent. For me, the instructor to student ratio happened to be better at Blackwater and the cost of the Blackwater course would have been only a few hundred bucks more.
At Blackwater we had five instructors to fifteen students (they over-sold the class): One lead, one assistant, and three helpers. The lead was a former leader of a militay sniper team. The assistant and helpers were all active military snipers. The tactics were spot-on and the level of current experience in sniper-stuff other than shooting was high. All the instructors were nice guys and very professional.
At RO we had Jacob and Frank; with Stan, Lindy, and Pete dropping in for a day or so each to help. No question that every instructor at RO knew the material, and the shooting craft, better than any instructor at Blackwater. I corrected them at Blackwater when they taught that a circle has 6400 Mils and one Mil is 3.375 MOA. To their credit, they all took it very well.
The difference is that the instructors at RO analyze your shooting, spot problems, and provide solutions for better marksmanship - they did it for us regularly. I became a better shooter overnight, each night. I have yet to find another rifle course that can do that, never mind one that attempts to do it instead of simply taking your money.
Re: Blackwater/XE Sniper School
Anybody know what the cost difference/time of instruction in Black Water and Rifles Only is?
Anybody know what the cost difference/time of instruction in Black Water and Rifles Only is?
Re: Blackwater/XE Sniper School
PR-1 (5 days) at Rifles Only is listed on the RO site at $950
Blackwater Basic Sniper (5 day) is listed on the BW site as $995
The round count is a significantly higher at RO than the BW class. I would account this to the amount of moving targets, moving chaos and stress drills you will shoot. Additionally shooting off the tower at RO is very efficient. You can easily cover a few dozen drills from 10 yards to 1000 yards all from the tower.
PR-1 (5 days) at Rifles Only is listed on the RO site at $950
Blackwater Basic Sniper (5 day) is listed on the BW site as $995
The round count is a significantly higher at RO than the BW class. I would account this to the amount of moving targets, moving chaos and stress drills you will shoot. Additionally shooting off the tower at RO is very efficient. You can easily cover a few dozen drills from 10 yards to 1000 yards all from the tower.
Re: Blackwater/XE Sniper School
I've never gained the experience I have with any training in 10 years of law enforcement that I did with the 3 days I spent at R.O. Jacob has a gift....PERIOD.
I've never been to Blackwater so I can't compare.
I schedule all the firearms training for my Department and the only firearms training they will get (outside our Dept) will be at R.O.
I plan to personally budget a trip annually to train under Jacob.
I've never gained the experience I have with any training in 10 years of law enforcement that I did with the 3 days I spent at R.O. Jacob has a gift....PERIOD.
I've never been to Blackwater so I can't compare.
I schedule all the firearms training for my Department and the only firearms training they will get (outside our Dept) will be at R.O.
I plan to personally budget a trip annually to train under Jacob.
Re: Blackwater/XE Sniper School
Rifles Only Precision Rifle courses listed on the web site are open to civilians. In general, courses which are not open to civilians are not listed on the web site.
http://www.riflesonly.com
Rifles Only Precision Rifle courses listed on the web site are open to civilians. In general, courses which are not open to civilians are not listed on the web site.
http://www.riflesonly.com
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