Blueprinting actions!?

[kravi]

Ok, so I've read a gazillion threads, heard a gazillion things, and I'm still clueless as to the math. In the old days, folks spent a lot of money blueprinting an old Rem700 action. Now folks instead buy custom actions (for probably less than a Rem700 + blueprinting cost).

But what does blueprinting really do? I mean, I've got a basic b-14 HMR which shoots (I'm a total noob at precision shooting, so I'm happy with my .7 MOA [5 round] groups at 100, but he rifle is almost certainly more mechanically accurate than I can shoot). So I'm trying to understand this concept.

1. If you have a reasonably accurate rifle, does blueprinting make a difference in raw mechanical accuracy? Generally folks say it is 90% the barrel anyway, right? (totally ignoring that it is 99% the Indian and not the arrow - I'm talking mechanical accuracy)
2. If it doesn't make the gun more accurate, what's the $*#(ing point of spending money blueprinting it?
3. I'm not trying to start a flame war or provoke folks. I'm trying to understand something that nobody has really been able to explain to me. Well, a couple of somethings that nobody has been able to explain:
a. What to custom actions really do, at a raw functional level, that box store actions don't (assuming a box store action that at least cycles and loads rounds reliably and you can get a smith to fit a Bartlein to your cheap ass action and get sub 0.5 MOA accuracy)?
b. What does blueprinting do to a box store action (Remmie, Bergara, etc)? Like, I don't care if they are filing this and sanding that and giving the action a good time from 3 succubi summoned from the 5th circle of hell. What does that handjob blueprinting actually do in practical terms? And how does that compare to a custom action?

Again, I'm trying to just understand the practical matters. To me, smoother doesn't mean much at all. Unless the "rougher" action has problems loading or ejecting rounds. In which case I don't care about the "smoothness", just the result of FTFs when in a competition. Things like installing M4/M16 extractors onto your bolt face don't mean **** to me either when the old fashioned crap (not advocating FUDness here, just not wanting a solution to a problem that doesn't reallyu exist) has successfully pulled out 5k pieces of brass over two barrel lifespans without a single issue.

Cheers folks, and again: If I'm stirring the pot, I don't mean to (for its own sake). I'm really just trying to understand the reason people are spending lots of money on custom actions, or are still blueprinting older actions, vs not.

 

[Huskydriver]

Squares stuff up so it's straight

 

[oldrifleman]

Money wise to buy action to be blueprinted would be dumb, it would be far cheaper long term to buy custom. If you have an action and are ready to upgrade it, then it MIGHT make sense. I will be doing one just because I have a doner and can’t make enough selling it to make up the delta.

 

[Just Macca]

@MikeRTacOps might be able to offer a short explainer. But I think now days it’s more done to either square an action face and chase threads when needed during a rebarreling - or because a department has some kind of policy about retaining a R700 action/serial number etc.

 

[R_A_W]

cost, prefits, running in dirt

you're not stirring the pot, there is no debate about customs vs 700/bergara/whatever, whether blue printed or not

 

[kravi]

Appreciate your responses folks, but it still leaves the question hanging. What, in practical terms does it do for the shooter? I mean, squaring an action face - how much does that matter if it isn't that off kilter in the first place? What kind of practical benefits do you see from it? Or is blueprinting more like "rebuilding" it when it is old and broken down? IE Recut the threads, etc....?

 

[spife7980]

What, in practical terms does it do for the shooter? I mean, squaring an action face - how much does that matter if it isn't that off kilter in the first place? What kind of practical benefits do you see from it? Or is blueprinting more like "rebuilding" it when it is old and broken down? IE Recut the threads, etc....?

It’s the “potential” benefits.
It can’t shoot as well as possible if it isn’t square.
You can still shoot the squarest action like crap so it doesn’t have a “practical” effect. It’s about chasing perfection.

If you are only measuring your groups to the tenths place, you dont need it.

 

[stello1001]

Appreciate your responses folks, but it still leaves the question hanging. What, in practical terms does it do for the shooter? I mean, squaring an action face - how much does that matter if it isn't that off kilter in the first place? What kind of practical benefits do you see from it? Or is blueprinting more like "rebuilding" it when it is old and broken down? IE Recut the threads, etc....?

I think it might save you from a few headaches if you're changing barrels often. If stuff isn't squared or threads aren't very good, you may run into fitment issues eventually. A barrel may or may not install properly one time. Then later down the road you get a different manufacturer or prefit or whatever and have issues fitting it. All it takes is frustration from one time to want to get the "blueprinting" done so shit works fine the next time.

 

[TheOE800]

My TacOps based on a Surgeon that Mike worked over has perfect lug engagement. None of the other actions I’ve had can substantiate that, not Defiance nor ARC.

 

[texastonk]

In my experience, in general, it will improve accuracy. Though case feeding and ejection can improve as well. I had my Remi 700 PSS Blue printed back in 2011 when it was more cost effective to do so. Had the chamber adjusted (Barrel set back as chamber was long from factory) to run Federal 168 factory ammo. Gun shot on average 1.5" groups with factory loads and afterward easily shot 1" with factory and sub-MOA with reloads which it still shoots very well today.
The work I had done includes, truing up the bolt face and lugs, truing the action face where it meets the barrel, setting the chamber back and cleaning up the threads, New larger recoil lug. All this improved concentricity with the bolt, action and barrel. I might be leaving something out but this is most of it.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

No debate. Tolerance stacking, never a good thing when accuracy & precision are your primary objectives.

I have blueprinted some, others are factory. Most my rifles are simply “one minute of coyote”

Go enjoy your .7 MOA, a lot of people would. I would.

-Doc

 

[XP1K]

Appreciate your responses folks, but it still leaves the question hanging. What, in practical terms does it do for the shooter? I mean, squaring an action face - how much does that matter if it isn't that off kilter in the first place? What kind of practical benefits do you see from it? Or is blueprinting more like "rebuilding" it when it is old and broken down? IE Recut the threads, etc....?

"Blue printing" or truing an action to get everything as square and concentric as possible will give the best possible chance for accuracy. If most of yours shoot you probably just haven't experienced a really bad one yet.

Hanging out with a couple local smiths in my area (both passed now) I got to learn a little from them and saw some pretty bad 700's come through their shops. One of which was mine.

Enter my 700 VLS chambered in 243win. Despite my best efforts the rifle just never would really shoot to it's potential with any powder/bullet combination.

After way too many components were consumed to no benefit I loaded it up with some fired cases and headed over to one of my smithing buddies for some diagnostics. What we first discovered was the chamber was about .003" out of concentric with the bore and on an angle at that. So the decision was made to pull it down, blueprint it, and see if an AI reamer would clean up the chamber.

The Smith remarked that the factory barrel was the straightest factory remington tube he'd ever seen. Which surprised both of us. Lugs in the action and on the bolt were off but in such a way where they kind of canceled each other out. But we fixed it anyway as any decent smith would.

He squared the reciever and the lugs and ended up setting the barrel back two turns (his absolute max limit) and the chamber still just barely wouldn't clean up at the very back around the base. It left a pinky nail size spot that measured .001" deep. I made the call to put it together anyway.

Now the gun routinely shoots half moa fireforming and a little better with fireformed cases. Previous best was around .75 moa but it was extremely hard to maintain that. In my case though it was probably the chamber that made the biggest difference.

 

[padom]

If 0.7" 5 shot accuracy at 100yd is good for you, blueprinting an action will most likely do nothing for you...

If ultimate accuracy and function is the goal, then it allowed you to pull every bit of accuracy out of your setup...

Blueprinting actions was a huge market before all the custom actions came out. Now pick your flavor of action.

 

[gopherslayer]

Anything less than perfection is a compromise.

This used to be my signature when I was getting paid to be a toolmaker. Eat it, sleep it and breathe it.

 

[kravi]

No debate. Tolerance stacking, never a good thing when accuracy & precision are your primary objectives.

I have blueprinted some, others are factory. Most my rifles are simply “one minute of coyote”

Go enjoy your .7 MOA, a lot of people would. I would.

-Doc

If 0.7" 5 shot accuracy at 100yd is good for you, blueprinting an action will most likely do nothing for you...

If ultimate accuracy and function is the goal, then it allowed you to pull every bit of accuracy out of your setup...

Blueprinting actions was a huge market before all the custom actions came out. Now pick your flavor of action.

I'm still at the beginning of my precision journey. Yeah, shooting 0.7 for me is just fine - I know that a better rifle right now wouldn't help me. I've got my first competition (NRL Hunter) in April and as long as I can shoot sub 2MOA from wonkie positions I should be good to go (minus that whole wind call). But, as I'm really shooting a fair amount, I was trying to figure out if I should blue-print my action when I send it in to be re-barreled or write it off and replace the action and barrel with a new custom action and barrel at the end of the year.

 

[Satterlee]

If the goal is to own a top-level rifle that delivers sub 1/2 moa accuracy on a consistent basis then your $$$ is well spent on a well blueprinted receiver and bolt. It doesn't really matter where it comes from, as long as it comes, true up a 700, buy a clone, either done correctly will shoot bug holes.
These rifles are scrutinized fully, not just slung together according to a recipe that looks the part when finished.

If the goal is to save $500.00 for seat at the poker table, it's likely most any production rifle off the shelf will be fine for you.

A rifle is a combination of components, each affecting the other. The goal is to achieve the highest level of performance from those components.
Highest performance is done thru the elimination of variables that exist in all components regardless of make or origin, all are susceptible, nothing is taken for granted, no stone is left unturned in the pursuit of elimination of the variable to include the ability of the shooter.

As a gunmaker of 38 years and counting I can tell you that just because you just spent on the latest greatest Rem. 700 clone action with the idea that all is true and correct with it then you still have some to learn.

For the most part a new production clone 700 receivers and bolts will be very good in terms of squareness and concentricity, short comings can and will be found with these and corrected as needed. The experienced will look at certain aspects of a rifle action starting with the obvious, which is even and uniform bolt locking lug contact on the counter seats within the receiver. If this is not correct, what else has been overlooked to improve the bottom line at company X? Afterall they too must get it out the door.

Not mentioning brand names but I have found in new production 700 clone receivers and bolts where bolt locking lug contact was singular in that only 1 of the 2 locking lugs was in contact. "Born Blueprinted?" not so much.

How was this condition inspected and discovered you may ask. Very simply actually, strip the bolt, smoke the back of the bolt lugs with a smoke lamp, reinsert the bolt to the receiver, cycle the bolt a couple of times with pressure on the bolt face, pull the bolt out and simply look at the back of the locking lugs for even contact on both bolt locking lugs as described by the disturbance of the soot from the smoke lamp on the bolt locking lugs.

No fuss was raised with the MFG, a small amount of lapping produced perfect lug contact and 1 variable eliminated.

Assuming that all is perfect goes against the elimination of variables. It's not smoke and black curtains, just pure mechanics.

 

[brianf]

Blue printing actions is 1995.

The historical approach to shooting with a few bucks in your pocket used to be;

But a varmint/bull barrel “big name” action, most likely one you saw in a swat magazine

After shooting for a bit hovering around your .7-1 with a few groups that touched .5

You’d send out your factory barreled action to be “blueprinted”. Some smith would touch every surface and some smith would just square up the receiver face…it was up to you to ask questions

Then they’d sell you a new barrel as well, because your barrel needed to be touched up to square up to your new receiver dimensions. “Why would you spend money on a factory barrel when a new Krieger is only a few hundred more”.

So then you would hopefully get back a tight/ squared up barreled action that would shoot .5…because any smith who has sharp tools can make modern match ammo shoot .5.

After shooting that a while you start thinking of getting a full custom build from a place like GAP with a surgeon action..that was the cats meow back then. It may or may not shoot better than your blueprinted but it will feel smoother and prob feed better.

At the same time your looking at some fundamental/ shooting schools

Forgot to add..your waiting months for each step like it’s 1880.

Fast forward..all that is a waste of time and money

Buy a decent custom action, buy a quality prefit, screw it together …literally screw it together …and be shooting by the weekend.

No matter what you shoot expect to be hovering between .4-.7 5 shot groups. You may shoot smaller at times for a group or 2 but to shoot .25 and less consistently you need a different set up, bags, rests etc. there’s a whole thread of a shooting competition/ game in the hide…guess how many guys didn’t even shoot .5 on the targets they submitted…never mind the ones they tossed.

It’s your choice but anyone over 40 took the sane path as described. Unless it’s your dads rifle etc..don’t put money into blueprinting in 2025.

 

[diggler1833]

Owning both custom actions as well as still owning a worked over Remington 700, I'll give my .02:

Some of the machine work will go into bringing that old 700 up to par in regards to durability. 8-40 screw threads (that are now straight...Remington often jacked that up), a thicker and more uniform recoil lug, Sako/M16 extractors, bushing a firing pin, new firing pin and spring assembly etc... Things like these are taken for granted now with aftermarket actions, but if your building on a donor then they might be worth doing at the same time you're making the action and bolt more concentric.

A lot of it is feel too. Few dudes want to invest thousands into an older rifle with an action that still feels like it left a mass-produced factory floor. I promise you that the guy who did my 700 gave me back an action that closes just as tight as my Surgeon...in fact, if guys did a blindfold test, they'd be shocked to find that they just ran a 700.

Accuracy?? Well, a couple thousandths will generally keep you from experiencing YOUR true potential at the range. Is it worth it? You'd probably be better off with a custom instead. But would I bet that the $500 spent on truing and modernizing an old 700 or equivalent is going to get you that extra tenth or two in accuracy?...You bet.

 

[kravi]

Owning both custom actions as well as still owning a worked over Remington 700, I'll give my .02:

Some of the machine work will go into bringing that old 700 up to par in regards to durability. 8-40 screw threads (that are now straight...Remington often jacked that up), a thicker and more uniform recoil lug, Sako/M16 extractors, bushing a firing pin, new firing pin and spring assembly etc... Things like these are taken for granted now with aftermarket actions, but if your building on a donor then they might be worth doing at the same time you're making the action and bolt more concentric.

A lot of it is feel too. Few dudes want to invest thousands into an older rifle with an action that still feels like it left a mass-produced factory floor. I promise you that the guy who did my 700 gave me back an action that closes just as tight as my Surgeon...in fact, if guys did a blindfold test, they'd be shocked to find that they just ran a 700.

Accuracy?? Well, a couple thousandths will generally keep you from experiencing YOUR true potential at the range. Is it worth it? You'd probably be better off with a custom instead. But would I bet that the $500 spent on truing and modernizing an old 700 or equivalent is going to get you that extra tenth or two in accuracy?...You bet.

Thanks for this. I have a generic Bergara B-14 HMR with a 22" sendero barrel (and a can on the end) right now. When I run through the barrel, I'm trying to determine whether I can upgrade the action and have something "just as good" as a custom (for all practical purposes) and save some money, vs disposing of it in its entirety and starting all over again. This is an NRL Hunter (Heavy - 16lb cap) specific rig which I'll be using in PRS as well for now. If I ever get good enough, I'll end up getting a seperate dedicated PRS rifle in a different caliber. That will for sure be a custom action. But for now I'm hoping I can have a good enough rifle for the long term.

 

[Huskydriver]

Thanks for this. I have a generic Bergara B-14 HMR with a 22" sendero barrel (and a can on the end) right now. When I run through the barrel, I'm trying to determine whether I can upgrade the action and have something "just as good" as a custom (for all practical purposes) and save some money, vs disposing of it in its entirety and starting all over again. This is an NRL Hunter (Heavy - 16lb cap) specific rig which I'll be using in PRS as well for now. If I ever get good enough, I'll end up getting a seperate dedicated PRS rifle in a different caliber. That will for sure be a custom action. But for now I'm hoping I can have a good enough rifle for the long term.

Had a longer more refined response typed up but screw it ...


Obviously sell that pos bergara and get an accuracy international life is short no need to settle for less

 

[spife7980]

The HMR isnt that nice of a rifle, might as well keep it for what it is and leave well enough alone. Then buy a new rig for dedicated prs if thats what you are after in the end. Better to do it once the right way. Cheaper too, if slightly delayed gratification.

 

[padom]

Thanks for this. I have a generic Bergara B-14 HMR with a 22" sendero barrel (and a can on the end) right now. When I run through the barrel, I'm trying to determine whether I can upgrade the action and have something "just as good" as a custom (for all practical purposes) and save some money, vs disposing of it in its entirety and starting all over again. This is an NRL Hunter (Heavy - 16lb cap) specific rig which I'll be using in PRS as well for now. If I ever get good enough, I'll end up getting a seperate dedicated PRS rifle in a different caliber. That will for sure be a custom action. But for now I'm hoping I can have a good enough rifle for the long term.

You arent going to "save some money" blueprinting.. I mean if you go all in and do everything.. Your probably better off selling off the action or barreled action when you are ready to upgrade and spending your money on a known action like a Zermatt (Origin or TL3), Impact, etc... and putting a quality barrel on it.

Controlled round feed on an action like a TL3 is going to make your stubby cartridges like 6BR, Dasher, GT, etc run smoother than a factory action. its going to have better tolerances, cycle smoother with a nice coating like DLC or Black Nitride, better ejection, you can get multiple bolt heads so you can screw numerous different caliber high end barrels on that say TL3 and be able to have a single rifle that can shoot 223, 6.5cm, 6 ARC, etc without buying an action for each...

Also, if you decide to sell it down the line, that aftermarket action is gonna hold resale value MUCH higher than a trued and blueprinted factory action. You will NEVER get back the money you put into a trued action if/when you sell it. Trust me, we all did this for many many years before all these aftermarket actions came out.

My last Rem700 had the lugs, threads, action face trued. I had the ID of the raceways measured and had a custom PTG bolt ordered to remove the slop of the bolt to raceway fitment of the factory bolt/action. New thicker precision ground recoil lug. New extractors, entire action and bolt DLC. New Bartlein barrel installed. You dont want to know what all this cost on top of the price of that factory action... WAY more than just buying an aftermarket action right from the start AND you dont want to know what I sold it for after buying 7 TL3's....

Mechanical ejection and controlled round feed and interchangeable bolt heads is enough of a reason to get an aftermarket action IMHO. All else aside

 

[kravi]

Well, in the short, I'm looking to have two rifles. The PRS rifle will be custom for sure. I'd like to be able to keep the Bergara for NRL Hunter, however.

 

[spife7980]

Well, in the short, I'm looking to have two rifles. The PRS rifle will be custom for sure. I'd like to be able to keep the Bergara for NRL Hunter, however.

Keep it. Just dont pay to have it trued. Its fine as is.

 

[padom]

Keep it. Just dont pay to have it trued. Its fine as is.

Exactly

 

[Oldmauser]

You are overthinking it. Just learn how to shrink that group of yours to 0.5 MOA.

 

[R_A_W]

something "just as good" as a custom (for all practical purposes)

Ultimately, you can't have this answered for you. You mentioned you're ok with 3/4 minute groups and don't care about slickness or feel, so a Bergara might be great for you. For me? Unacceptable, but my demands are relative to my experience and needs.

Your probably better off selling off the action or barreled action when you are ready to upgrade and spending your money on a known action like a Zermatt (Origin or TL3), Impact, etc... and putting a quality barrel on it.

x2 @kravi I'd shoot 1,000 rounds through your Bergara and then sell it (or possibly rebarrel with a quality blank). If you're new to long range, shooting a $900 prefit on a $1500 custom action isn't critical... rounds downrange are. Keep shooting & revisit the other member's advice above after 1,000 rounds - you will see all the above through a different lense